11 Killed, Sheriff's Sergeant Dies, in Thousand Oaks Bar Shooting

[Rams]

11 Killed, Sheriff's Sergeant Dies, in Thousand Oaks Bar Shooting

https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Active-Shooter-at-Thousand-Oaks-Restaurant-500009581.html?_osource=SocialFlowTwt_LABrand

Edit: Currently it is now being reported as 13 fatalities.

Rams

[Robert]

Officers were advised soon after the gunfire broke out that the suspect was a man in his early 20s wearing all black clothing and with a beard. But some reports said it was a full face mask.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6366501/Gunman-shoots-dozens-victims-including-police-officer-opens-fire-California-bar.html?ito=social-twitter_dailymailus

[Skinhead]

Notice in the first article a witness said, "It seemed to take forever for the Police to arrive".  You must protect yourself, I think the SWAT guy looks kind of ridiculous standing around in all that gear after the threat has taken himself out.  I'll bet the deputy wishes he had been geared up, take some stones to walk into shooting with only a vest and no other cover.  May he rest in peace.

[Dave Ritsema]

How could this possibly happen? California has some of the strictest gun laws in the US!

[Hooter]

Next you will need he has been a person of interest for some time. But, nothing was ever done.  This is 

[Gavin_Sons]

How could this possibly happen? California has some of the strictest gun laws in the US!

That is exactly why it happened, He knew no one would have a way to protect themselves. This is also why i'll never visit crazy california. I have heard it is beautiful there but i will never see it in person. I refuse to support states that reject your right to protect yourself. Same with Illinois, will drive around it instead of through it. 

[Dave Ritsema]

How could this possibly happen? California has some of the strictest gun laws in the US!

That is exactly why it happened, He knew no one would have a way to protect themselves. This is also why i'll never visit crazy california. I have heard it is beautiful there but i will never see it in person. I refuse to support states that reject your right to protect yourself. Same with Illinois, will drive around it instead of through it.  

Also the reason I always carry in church. I don't want my family to be threatened by some predator going for a soft target where he thinks people wont have the ability to defend themselves. Its sad that the world has come to this.

[bscrive]

How could this possibly happen? California has some of the strictest gun laws in the US!

That is exactly why it happened, He knew no one would have a way to protect themselves. This is also why i'll never visit crazy california. I have heard it is beautiful there but i will never see it in person. I refuse to support states that reject your right to protect yourself. Same with Illinois, will drive around it instead of through it.  

Also the reason I always carry in church. I don't want my family to be threatened by some predator going for a soft target where he thinks people wont have the ability to defend themselves. Its sad that the world has come to this.

Not the world Dave, only in the USA.  It happens the odd time in other countries.

[old2soon]

          While I grieve for those people that were gunned down stead of asking for MORE gun control-clearly did NOT work here-start DEMANDING easier to access C C W classes and LEGAL carry. Whole cursed problem with ALL the current and proposed "gun laws" is the FACT the laws will NEVER keep guns out of the hands of criminals-NEVER. May that L E O who ran Towards the Danger forever R I P. As I understand it he-The L E O- left a Wife and a Son. What I read said first 911 call at 2320 L E Os arrive on scene at 2326. 6 minutes IS a LOT of Time for a determined shooter. I fer one ALWAYS wonder HOW ca and il can have all these shootings? Sadly too simple-criminals will NOT EVER gice up their weapons easily. RIDE SAFE.

[Valkorado]

My 2 cents. 

Another wacko, and another rarely addressed issue.  AGAIN, there were past documented issues with I this guy.  Here come the grabbers again, but we know the gun did not commit the act.  In almost every recent active shooter case, a nutcase with known mental issues was the culprit.

I say bring back mental institutions, "insane asylums".  These were mostly shut down in the United States in favor of psychotropic medications and outpatient treatments.  In one of the first real examples of political correctness in our great nation, deinstitutionalization has left law enforcement with few choices but to release potentially dangerous individuals right back into society. They can't incarcerate someone for being a bit shady, and they can't institutionalize them anymore.

 

[Chrisj CMA]

How could this possibly happen? California has some of the strictest gun laws in the US!

That is exactly why it happened, He knew no one would have a way to protect themselves. This is also why i'll never visit crazy california. I have heard it is beautiful there but i will never see it in person. I refuse to support states that reject your right to protect yourself. Same with Illinois, will drive around it instead of through it.  

Also the reason I always carry in church. I don't want my family to be threatened by some predator going for a soft target where he thinks people wont have the ability to defend themselves. Its sad that the world has come to this.

Not the world Dave, only in the USA.  It happens the odd time in other countries.

You've got to be joking bscrive.  So, you are saying the United States has more gun violence than the rest of the world?  That we have crazy folks and the rest of the world is so sane?  I think you are either in denial, or you live in a bubble.  England, France, most Arab Countries, Mexico, Columbia, Venezuela Just to name a few would love to have the level of gun violence per capita (when compared to the population) we have in the United States.

OK, maybe not England.  

[Gavin_Sons]

How could this possibly happen? California has some of the strictest gun laws in the US!

That is exactly why it happened, He knew no one would have a way to protect themselves. This is also why i'll never visit crazy california. I have heard it is beautiful there but i will never see it in person. I refuse to support states that reject your right to protect yourself. Same with Illinois, will drive around it instead of through it.  

Also the reason I always carry in church. I don't want my family to be threatened by some predator going for a soft target where he thinks people wont have the ability to defend themselves. Its sad that the world has come to this.

Not the world Dave, only in the USA.  It happens the odd time in other countries.

HUH? Are you smoking pot again?

[0leman]

IF O2S time line is correct, 6 minutes sounds about right for the time it takes LEO's to be dispatched and get there.   During the night shift there are 3 LEO's on duty in the town where I live (20K or so).  it would take them all of that to respond here or more.

I get a kick of out news folks talking about his weapon, saying is was a 45.  But they thought it had an extended clip.  How could he reload a normal clip and still keep shooting.  They really need to learn a bit about fire arms.  In CA it is illegal to have extended clips so how could he have one on his legally obtained firearm.

[Valkorado]

How could this possibly happen? California has some of the strictest gun laws in the US!

That is exactly why it happened, He knew no one would have a way to protect themselves. This is also why i'll never visit crazy california. I have heard it is beautiful there but i will never see it in person. I refuse to support states that reject your right to protect yourself. Same with Illinois, will drive around it instead of through it.  

Also the reason I always carry in church. I don't want my family to be threatened by some predator going for a soft target where he thinks people wont have the ability to defend themselves. Its sad that the world has come to this.

Not the world Dave, only in the USA.  It happens the odd time in other countries.

You've got to be joking bscrive.  So, you are saying the United States has more gun violence than the rest of the world?  That we have crazy folks and the rest of the world is so sane?  I think you are either in denial, or you live in a bubble.  England, France, most Arab Countries, Mexico, Columbia, Venezuela Just to name a few would love to have the level of gun violence per capita (when compared to the population) we have in the United States.

OK, maybe not England.  

Russia.  Less guns, more murders.  Imagine that.
http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Russia/United-States/Crime/table

[scooperhsd]

You don't need guns to kill people. Poison or a knife work equally as well.

[Gavin_Sons]

You don't need guns to kill people. Poison or a knife work equally as well.

and much quieter 

[98valk]

How could this possibly happen? California has some of the strictest gun laws in the US!

That is exactly why it happened, He knew no one would have a way to protect themselves. This is also why i'll never visit crazy california. I have heard it is beautiful there but i will never see it in person. I refuse to support states that reject your right to protect yourself. Same with Illinois, will drive around it instead of through it.  

Also the reason I always carry in church. I don't want my family to be threatened by some predator going for a soft target where he thinks people wont have the ability to defend themselves. Its sad that the world has come to this.

Not the world Dave, only in the USA.  It happens the odd time in other countries.

educate yourself CB

Fact: “We don’t have as many guns [in Brazil] as the United States, but we use them more.” 8 Brazil has mandatory licensing, registration, and maximum personal ownership quotas. It now bans any new sales to private citizens. Their homicide rate is almost three (3) times higher than the U.S. 9

GUNS IN OTHER COUNTRIES - Contact (Violent) Crime Rates per Industrialized CountryFact: In Canada around 1920, before there was any form of gun control, their homicide rate was 7% of the U.S rate. By 1986, and after significant gun control legislation, Canada’s homicide rate was 35% of the U.S. rate – a significant increase. 10 In 2003, Canada had a violent crime rate more than double that of the U.S. (963 vs. 475 per 100,000). 11

Fact: One study of Canadian firearm law and homicide rates spanning 34 years “failed to demonstrate a beneficial association between legislation and firearm homicide rates” for three major gun control bills. 12


Juristat: Crime Statistics in Canada, 2004 and FBI Uniform Crime Statistics online ↩
Canadian Firearms Legislation and Effects on Homicide 1974 to 2008, Caillin Langmann, Journal of Interpersonal Violence, September 30, 2011 ↩
http://www.gunfacts.info/gun-control-myths/guns-in-other-countries/

[old2soon]

             Made mention of this before and I will again. I Know some of our L E Os here in Willow Springs. IF he is parked at the Cop Shop and gets the 911 call from me figure 5 or 6 minutes providing the squad starts correctly. AND I live a bit over a mile away from the Cop Shop. BUT bein as I reside in Missouri my possession of firearms is NOT abridged. Again-condolences to families of those gunned down needlessly. RIDE SAFE.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Notice in the first article a witness said, "It seemed to take forever for the Police to arrive".  You must protect yourself, I think the SWAT guy looks kind of ridiculous standing around in all that gear after the threat has taken himself out.  I'll bet the deputy wishes he had been geared up, take some stones to walk into shooting with only a vest and no other cover.  May he rest in peace.

29 years on the force and set to retire next year. 

[bscrive]

Keep coming with the stats guys, we all know how they can be skewed to say what you want, but mass shootings like this seem to be a USA thing.  How many have happened this year in the US compared to any other country.  Sure there are individual murders that may compare, but I was talking about the mass shootings.
There have been @ 308 mass shootings so far this year in the US and 1 in Canada.  Canada has had @ 10 mass shootings since 1989.

[bscrive]

Here are some more stats for you on overall gun deaths from Vox.

The top six’s gun death tolls for 2016: Brazil was 43,200, the US 37,200, Mexico 15,400, Colombia 13,300, Venezuela 12,800, and Guatemala 5,090. Collectively, these countries made up less than 10 percent of the global population but 50.5 percent of the world’s gun deaths

To that end, the US’s rate of gun deaths is a bit lower than the other countries on this list; it was at 10.6 per 100,000 people, while Mexico was at 11.8, Brazil 19.4, Colombia 25.9, Guatemala 32.3, and Venezuela 38.7. El Salvador, which was not on the top six list for overall deaths, had the highest gun death rate in the world at 39.2 per 100,000 people. The global rate of gun deaths was 3.4 per 100,000 people.

Globally, most gun deaths were homicides. But in the US, most were suicides.

America was also the odd country out among wealthier nations when it comes to gun deaths. For comparison, the US’s rate of 10.6 gun deaths per 100,000 people was much higher than Switzerland’s rate of 2.8, Canada’s 2.1, Germany’s 0.9, the United Kingdom’s 0.3, and Japan’s 0.2.

The US has nearly six times the gun homicide rate of Canada, more than seven times that of Sweden, and nearly 16 times that of Germany.

Plain and simple, more guns do not make you safer.  Seems like it is just the opposite.

[f6john]

More guns may not make us safer. But a gun in my hands make me and mine safer. With that said, I don’t own a handgun but that needs to change.

[Willow]

...
There have been @ 308 mass shootings so far this year in the US and 1 in Canada.  ...

308?  This year?  Wow!  Your news source must be much better than mine.   

Keep coming with the stats guys, we all know how they can be skewed to say what you want, ...

Here are some more stats for you on overall gun deaths from Vox.
...

See the above quote.   

[solo1]

I have a book by John Lott that disproves much of above.  Figures don't lie but liars figure.

No, I won't go into disproving, I'll believe what's true, no need to convince those in error.

[semo97]

The gun deaths other then the US and Brazil are the ones found I would say there are mass graves in those other countries you know nothing about and those hauled out to sea shot and feed to the sharks.

[Chrisj CMA]

Keep coming with the stats guys, we all know how they can be skewed to say what you want, but mass shootings like this seem to be a USA thing.  How many have happened this year in the US compared to any other country.  Sure there are individual murders that may compare, but I was talking about the mass shootings.
There have been @ 308 mass shootings so far this year in the US and 1 in Canada.  Canada has had @ 10 mass shootings since 1989.

Here's a stat for you.  I have eight hand guns three shotguns and two semi automatic rifles.  Not a one of those guns have participated in a mass shooting at any time. 

It's not the guns

So many times as with this event the shooter should not have been allowed to have the weapons. 

The system in place failed so they blame the gun.

We have a bunch of sick people that we refuse to take care of.  Then gun grabbers think restricting firearms is the answer.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Keep coming with the stats guys, we all know how they can be skewed to say what you want, but mass shootings like this seem to be a USA thing.  How many have happened this year in the US compared to any other country.  Sure there are individual murders that may compare, but I was talking about the mass shootings.
There have been @ 308 mass shootings so far this year in the US and 1 in Canada.  Canada has had @ 10 mass shootings since 1989.

Here's a stat for you.  I have eight hand guns three shotguns and two semi automatic rifles.  Not a one of those guns have participated in a mass shooting at any time. 

It's not the guns

So many times as with this event the shooter should not have been allowed to have the weapons. 

The system in place failed so they blame the gun.

We have a bunch of sick people that we refuse to take care of.  Then gun grabbers think restricting firearms is the answer.

You have two statements in opposition.

There are many who are against restricting guns in any form, regardless of mental sickness. Many here feel this way.

[Bighead]

Rob I believe that may be the most stupid thing ( well maybe not but it ranks up there) i have ever seen you post.

[Chrisj CMA]

Keep coming with the stats guys, we all know how they can be skewed to say what you want, but mass shootings like this seem to be a USA thing.  How many have happened this year in the US compared to any other country.  Sure there are individual murders that may compare, but I was talking about the mass shootings.
There have been @ 308 mass shootings so far this year in the US and 1 in Canada.  Canada has had @ 10 mass shootings since 1989.

Here's a stat for you.  I have eight hand guns three shotguns and two semi automatic rifles.  Not a one of those guns have participated in a mass shooting at any time. 

It's not the guns

So many times as with this event the shooter should not have been allowed to have the weapons. 

The system in place failed so they blame the gun.

We have a bunch of sick people that we refuse to take care of.  Then gun grabbers think restricting firearms is the answer.

You have two statements in opposition.

There are many who are against restricting guns in any form, regardless of mental sickness. Many here feel this way.

Meathead you have your own conflict in that response.  I am in the camp that believe that restricting guns is not the answer.  Caring for mentally I'll and insuring they don't have full unsupervised access to firearms is a whole different thing.  

along with this mental health professionals need to be more careful with their dignosis.  If someone is diagnosed with PTSD I think reasonable safeguards should be standard practice.  Knowing this should give the diagnosis more weight.  

This guy was a problem. He should have had more care. Maybe sometime before the incident there would have been warning signs

[The emperor has no clothes]

Keep coming with the stats guys, we all know how they can be skewed to say what you want, but mass shootings like this seem to be a USA thing.  How many have happened this year in the US compared to any other country.  Sure there are individual murders that may compare, but I was talking about the mass shootings.
There have been @ 308 mass shootings so far this year in the US and 1 in Canada.  Canada has had @ 10 mass shootings since 1989.

Here's a stat for you.  I have eight hand guns three shotguns and two semi automatic rifles.  Not a one of those guns have participated in a mass shooting at any time. 

It's not the guns

So many times as with this event the shooter should not have been allowed to have the weapons. 

The system in place failed so they blame the gun.

We have a bunch of sick people that we refuse to take care of.  Then gun grabbers think restricting firearms is the answer.

You have two statements in opposition.

There are many who are against restricting guns in any form, regardless of mental sickness. Many here feel this way.

Meathead you have your own conflict in that response.  I am in the camp that believe that restricting guns is not the answer.  Caring for mentally I'll and insuring they don't have full unsupervised access to firearms is a whole different thing.  

along with this mental health professionals need to be more careful with their dignosis.  If someone is diagnosed with PTSD I think reasonable safeguards should be standard practice.  Knowing this should give the diagnosis more weight.  

This guy was a problem. He should have had more care. Maybe sometime before the incident there would have been warning signs

He should have had more care. I agree our mental health system is lacking. You said he should not have had access to guns. I agree with that. But, let's be honest about it. That is gun restriction. Many are against this.

[Gavin_Sons]

Keep coming with the stats guys, we all know how they can be skewed to say what you want, but mass shootings like this seem to be a USA thing.  How many have happened this year in the US compared to any other country.  Sure there are individual murders that may compare, but I was talking about the mass shootings.
There have been @ 308 mass shootings so far this year in the US and 1 in Canada.  Canada has had @ 10 mass shootings since 1989.

308 huh? I'm guessing that includes murder suicides, also guessing they count mass shootings as 2 or more. Great stats, thanks 

[Chrisj CMA]

Keep coming with the stats guys, we all know how they can be skewed to say what you want, but mass shootings like this seem to be a USA thing.  How many have happened this year in the US compared to any other country.  Sure there are individual murders that may compare, but I was talking about the mass shootings.
There have been @ 308 mass shootings so far this year in the US and 1 in Canada.  Canada has had @ 10 mass shootings since 1989.

Here's a stat for you.  I have eight hand guns three shotguns and two semi automatic rifles.  Not a one of those guns have participated in a mass shooting at any time. 

It's not the guns

So many times as with this event the shooter should not have been allowed to have the weapons. 

The system in place failed so they blame the gun.

We have a bunch of sick people that we refuse to take care of.  Then gun grabbers think restricting firearms is the answer.

You have two statements in opposition.

There are many who are against restricting guns in any form, regardless of mental sickness. Many here feel this way.

Meathead you have your own conflict in that response.  I am in the camp that believe that restricting guns is not the answer.  Caring for mentally I'll and insuring they don't have full unsupervised access to firearms is a whole different thing.  

along with this mental health professionals need to be more careful with their dignosis.  If someone is diagnosed with PTSD I think reasonable safeguards should be standard practice.  Knowing this should give the diagnosis more weight.  

This guy was a problem. He should have had more care. Maybe sometime before the incident there would have been warning signs

He should have had more care. I agree our mental health system is lacking. You said he should not have had access to guns. I agree with that. But, let's be honest about it. That is gun restriction. Many are against this.

I guess it's in how you define gun restricting.  I'm talking about banning any type of weapons for all because of the actions of a few.  Even using the label assault weapon is misleading.  A semi automatic AR 15 is not an assault rifle because it is an AR.  Nor is it because it resembles a military fully automatic machine gun.  Nor is it any more dangerous than a classic deer rifle with a ten round magazine.  If an individual person is found to be a danger and not allowed to have a gun that's a personal restriction

[Bighead]

Jeff the way Rob is talking he seems to think that many here think that anyone should be able to own guns like maybe felons,mass murders and so forth. He is just back to stirring the same pot of poop as before. No sense in trying to reason with a liberal. They love to spin and twist things to the way they think.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Keep coming with the stats guys, we all know how they can be skewed to say what you want, but mass shootings like this seem to be a USA thing.  How many have happened this year in the US compared to any other country.  Sure there are individual murders that may compare, but I was talking about the mass shootings.
There have been @ 308 mass shootings so far this year in the US and 1 in Canada.  Canada has had @ 10 mass shootings since 1989.

Here's a stat for you.  I have eight hand guns three shotguns and two semi automatic rifles.  Not a one of those guns have participated in a mass shooting at any time. 

It's not the guns

So many times as with this event the shooter should not have been allowed to have the weapons. 

The system in place failed so they blame the gun.

We have a bunch of sick people that we refuse to take care of.  Then gun grabbers think restricting firearms is the answer.

You have two statements in opposition.

There are many who are against restricting guns in any form, regardless of mental sickness. Many here feel this way.

Meathead you have your own conflict in that response.  I am in the camp that believe that restricting guns is not the answer.  Caring for mentally I'll and insuring they don't have full unsupervised access to firearms is a whole different thing.  

along with this mental health professionals need to be more careful with their dignosis.  If someone is diagnosed with PTSD I think reasonable safeguards should be standard practice.  Knowing this should give the diagnosis more weight.  

This guy was a problem. He should have had more care. Maybe sometime before the incident there would have been warning signs

He should have had more care. I agree our mental health system is lacking. You said he should not have had access to guns. I agree with that. But, let's be honest about it. That is gun restriction. Many are against this.

I guess it's in how you define gun restricting.  I'm talking about banning any type of weapons for all because of the actions of a few.  Even using the label assault weapon is misleading.  A semi automatic AR 15 is not an assault rifle because it is an AR.  Nor is it because it resembles a military fully automatic machine gun.  Nor is it any more dangerous than a classic deer rifle with a ten round magazine.  If an individual person is found to be a danger and not allowed to have a gun that's a personal restriction

What I'm trying to say is, many believe this guy shouldn't have been restricted from guns.

[..]

Jeff the way Rob is talking he seems to think that many here think that anyone should be able to own guns like maybe felons,mass murders and so forth. He is just back to stirring the same pot of poop as before. No sense in trying to reason with a liberal. They love to spin and twist things to the way they think.

Didn't take long did it 

[The emperor has no clothes]

Jeff the way Rob is talking he seems to think that many here think that anyone should be able to own guns like maybe felons,mass murders and so forth. He is just back to stirring the same pot of poop as before. No sense in trying to reason with a liberal. They love to spin and twist things to the way they think.

Didn't take long did it 

Well, I'm sorry you guys see it that way. I've tried to keep my posts with Jeff respectful as he has done with me. I never said anything about felons or mass murderers. I responded to his post about mental health of this guy.

[Bighead]

Rob you CLEARLY stated above that many here think there should be no gun restrictions for anyone. Which is the craziest thing I have heard. I never said you were being disrespectful did I? (Didnt think so)
All I am saying is you are wrong in your take on the way most here think about restricting guns. You seem to be under the impression that most here think ANYONE should own a gun regardless of criminal or mental history.
Deny you posted this.

You have two statements in opposition.

There are many who are against restricting guns in any form, regardless of mental sickness. Many here feel this way.
[/quote]

[The emperor has no clothes]

Rob you CLEARLY stated above that many here think there should be no gun restrictions for anyone. Which is the craziest thing I have heard.
Deny you posted this.

You have two statements in opposition.

There are many who are against restricting guns in any form, regardless of mental sickness. Many here feel this way.

[/quote]"regardless of mental sickness"

This portion of my sentence was meant to infer that the restrictions were about them. Not all. A more correct grammatical sentence should probably have said "their" mental sickness. I didn't think the sentence was that hard to understand though. I'm not sure where you can assume I meant "anyone" in there.

[Bighead]

 

[Serk]

Gun control kills.

How many more must be sacrificed to this failed experiment of making defenseless victim zones before we realize this?