Buying a Used Firearm

[F6Dave]

I have a friend who wants to buy a used revolver.  It's a S&W model 586.  It's from a reputable dealer (Cabelas) but they have a new policy where every handgun on display has a trigger lock, which limits your ability to handle and inspect it.

He asked me what he should be looking for.  I've never bought a used gun before.  Does anyone have any suggestions?

[Chrisj CMA]

He can make sure the cylinder feels tight, that the barrel is not canted, rifling looks crisp.  He can also bring feeler guages (the flat ones) and check the gap between the cylinder and forcing cone.  Should be .006 +/-.  Also take the grips off see what it's like around the mainspring and make sure all the side plate screws are good, not buggered up.

[Jess from VA]

There are dozens of good articles on the interweb discussing buying used guns, and the search should be tailored for a revolver.

Just like I've done for a bike dealer who won't let anyone ride their used bikes, I ask them to roll it out into the parking lot start it up and ride it around the parking lot while I watch.  I've never heard of a firearm dealer who won't let a prospective buyer handle a firearm, new or used.  The only thing a buyer needs to know is all safe gun handing rules (muzzle discipline), and to not double action the trigger often or fast/hard, which tends to put a turn line on a blue steel cylinder (but not so much on a stainless revolver).

The L-frame, blue steel Smith 586 is a pretty bulletproof revolver.  It may have a bit of a turn line on the cylinder, and no big deal.  It first entered production in 1980; subsequent variants can be determined by opening the cylinder and looking on the crane for a 586-X (from 1 to eight), which will show submodels and small variants.  See; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smith_%26_Wesson_Model_586  (note the 1987 recall on 586 & 586-1's)

You are looking for obvious damage or defects, a clean bore/rifling (and an un-dinged muzzle crown), wiggling the closed cylinder to ensure it doesn't have excess play (side to side, and fore and aft), working the ejector rod on an open cylinder to insure it isn't bent, working the double and single action trigger to make sure it's smooth, looking closely at the side-plates to ensure a previous owner didn't jack it out with a screwdriver, looking at the screws to see they aren't buggered up from using wrong screwdrivers, close inspection of the sights.

The seller may not know, but you always ask if the gun was ever taken to a smith for any work, and what for?

If it's a consignment sale, the seller may not wish to give you the seller's number, but you can ask the seller to call the consignor with your number and ask him to call you, so you can ask him questions about it.

Cabelas is a pretty reputable dealer and would probably not sell a defective unit, but..... (ask what their policy is if you discover a latent defect soon after purchase.  That is very unlikely.)

https://thefiringline.com/Misc/library/Revolver-check.html

https://www.durysguns.com/news/seven-things-to-check-for-when-you-buy-used-revolvers

https://www.chuckhawks.com/used_handgun.htm

http://www.thesixgunjournal.net/a-revolver-buyers-checklist/

https://blog.cheaperthandirt.com/shopping-for-and-inspecting-used-revolvers/

http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-revolvers-1980-present/292236-lessons-learned-buying-used-revolver.html

The Smith 586 is a fine choice for a new gun owner.


 

[semo97]

Most Cabela's  has a gun smith on hand. When buying a used gun they go through it to make sure it is safe to sell due to liability. They do not want to sell junk and unfired guns, bad for business. That said some have an indoor range for hand guns and some have a tube for long guns. I was in a Cabela's that had the gun smith in his own enclosed sound proof shop below floor level and you could watch him from behind. He had long gun tube and was going through the used rifles that were in for trade. They did not trade with you unless it was inspected by the smith and shoot several times. What a good gig to have. If they do that with long guns they will do it with hand guns. It would be nice to be able to feel the trigger pull and hold the gun properly to see if it feels good in hand.

[F6Dave]

I was at Calela's helping him shop.  The only thing I noticed was the blueing was worn away around the barrel at the muzzle.  Could that be from a case of some kind?  The rest looked very good.  It had those massive walnut grips Smith used to install.  They looked like new, though maybe the owner put them back on after using aftermarket grips.

We couldn't work the trigger due to their new policy.  A salesman told us that at a Bass Pro store (Cabela's parent company) in Kansas, there was a terrible incident a few months ago.  Someone was looking at a revolver.  He loaded a single round from his pocket and committed suicide right there at the counter.  Now they put trigger locks on everything.

[Psychotic Bovine]

I was at Calela's helping him shop.  The only thing I noticed was the blueing was worn away around the barrel at the muzzle.  Could that be from a case of some kind?  The rest looked very good.  It had those massive walnut grips Smith used to install.  They looked like new, though maybe the owner put them back on after using aftermarket grips.

We couldn't work the trigger due to their new policy.  A salesman told us that at a Bass Pro store (Cabela's parent company) in Kansas, there was a terrible incident a few months ago.  Someone was looking at a revolver.  He loaded a single round from his pocket and committed suicide right there at the counter.  Now they put trigger locks on everything.

Bluing worn at the muzzle on a revolver is usually from being put in and out of a holster.

[Jess from VA]

We couldn't work the trigger due to their new policy.

I'll bet if you ask, HE will remove the lock and work the trigger and action for you. 

And if Cabela's does have an on-site 'smith (even if he's seen it before), you can ask if he will do it again for you, to alleviate any doubts.

[F6Dave]

I was at Calela's helping him shop.  The only thing I noticed was the blueing was worn away around the barrel at the muzzle.  Could that be from a case of some kind?  The rest looked very good.  It had those massive walnut grips Smith used to install.  They looked like new, though maybe the owner put them back on after using aftermarket grips.

We couldn't work the trigger due to their new policy.  A salesman told us that at a Bass Pro store (Cabela's parent company) in Kansas, there was a terrible incident a few months ago.  Someone was looking at a revolver.  He loaded a single round from his pocket and committed suicide right there at the counter.  Now they put trigger locks on everything.

Bluing worn at the muzzle on a revolver is usually from being put in and out of a holster.

You're probably right.  It looked like wear from a holster, but the rest of the gun showed so little wear I was thinking there might be another reason.  It also has a 6" barrel, making it pretty large and heavy to carry on a regular basis.

[JimC]

One way that I am aware of to check the tightness of a S&W revolver quickly and easily.
Pull the trigger, (or have counter guy do it) then hold the trigger down without letting it up at all,
grab hold of the cylinder and try and move it back and forth. If tight, it will not move at all, if worn out, it will move very very slightly.

I agree with above, the wear around the barrel is probably holster wear. That was a very common weapon for police departments. Even if t was a duty gun, chances are that it mostly fired hand loaded wad cutters during qualifications.

Jim

[Chrisj CMA]

One way that I am aware of to check the tightness of a S&W revolver quickly and easily.
Pull the trigger, (or have counter guy do it) then hold the trigger down without letting it up at all,
grab hold of the cylinder and try and move it back and forth. If tight, it will not move at all, if worn out, it will move very very slightly.

I agree with above, the wear around the barrel is probably holster wear. That was a very common weapon for police departments. Even if t was a duty gun, chances are that it mostly fired hand loaded wad cutters during qualifications.

Jim

Jim, that’s just wrong. I have bought several S&W revolvers new. None of them would have passed your cylinder tightness test. They will all wiggle a bit at lock up, totally normal. If it’s excess movement or sloppy gap to the forcing cone then it’s worn

[Jess from VA]

One way that I am aware of to check the tightness of a S&W revolver quickly and easily.
Pull the trigger, (or have counter guy do it) then hold the trigger down without letting it up at all,
grab hold of the cylinder and try and move it back and forth. If tight, it will not move at all, if worn out, it will move very very slightly.

I agree with above, the wear around the barrel is probably holster wear. That was a very common weapon for police departments. Even if t was a duty gun, chances are that it mostly fired hand loaded wad cutters during qualifications.
Jim

Jim, that’s just wrong. I have bought several S&W revolvers new. None of them would have passed your cylinder tightness test. They will all wiggle a bit at lock up, totally normal. If it’s excess movement or sloppy gap to the forcing cone then it’s worn

I concur Jeff.  There's always a little wiggle, but too much is no good, as is any fore and aft movement to the forcing cone.

More modern revolvers have a transfer bar, but if you are buying a revolver with a hammer firing pin, the check to do is rooster and drop the hammer with the trigger, and hold it down, then turn it sideways (without pointing it at anyone) and make sure you can see the firing pin extending past the internal frame.  

A six inch bbl Smith revolver (with target sights) is an excellent gun for accuracy.  The L frame 586/686 (a .41 magnum frame) is really too big/heavy for carry, whether a 2.5, 4 or 6" bbl.  But it is a great target and home defense gun, and I highly recommend it.  

My very first handgun was a Smith & Wesson Model K-38 Target Masterpiece Revolver Model 14 (.38Spl K-frame) in 6bbl" with target sights.  To this day (47 years later), I am still capable of better accuracy with it than any other handgun I own (not counting long range with scopes).  I have some very accurate autos too, but I just do better with revolvers, always have.  Shooting quarter size bulls is harder than minute of bad guy. I'll never be as good as I used to be because of eyes and trifocals, but I'm still not bad.  

A little muzzle wear from holsters just makes it vintage.... like 20yo flat six bikes.  I have many more used guns than new; properly cared for they will outlast you, your children, and their children.

If he buys this, the next thing to do is watch Utube for proper cleaning techniques.  Some guys do more damage cleaning than shooting.  

[JimC]

OK gents,
I stand corrected, somewhat. I probably should have said excessive movement. It has been a long time since I messed with revolvers, but that is one of the first things I was told about them back in the 70's.

I remember standing on the firing line and getting sprayed with hot lead shasvings from the person shooting next to me, it ended up the cylinder and barrel were not lining up, and that is how they checked for it.

JIm

[Chrisj CMA]

OK gents,
I stand corrected, somewhat. I probably should have said excessive movement. It has been a long time since I messed with revolvers, but that is one of the first things I was told about them back in the 70's.

I remember standing on the firing line and getting sprayed with hot lead shasvings from the person shooting next to me, it ended up the cylinder and barrel were not lining up, and that is how they checked for it.

JIm

The hot lead thing was a timing issue, usually has nothing to do with a loose/ warn cylinder.  If you don't know much about revolvers you may not be the right one to advise someone on buying a used gun.

[LTD]

Buy it don't worry about it Smith and Wesson revolvers are high quality some of the best in the world plus the 586 is a tank.

[Hooter]

Contrary to popular belief Jim, you are right. That is where shaving comes from, cylinder to barrel misalignment. Bluing wear at the muzzle is holster wear and should also show some on the cylinder. Not seeing or handling the gun only going by a description makes it hard to evaluate any gun.

[¿spoom]

Personally, I'd never buy any firearm where it was impossible to handle it and work the action, including feeling the pull. If they can't remove the lock, I can't make the purchase. It's not personal, I just need to get a handle on everything, including exactly how it fits in my small hands. A huge part of that is trigger feel and finger reach.   

[Jess Tolbirt]

i didnt read all the post above but look at the fire line, the space between the cylinder and the barrel under the top of the gun, where the flash comes out the side, if there is a significant amount or wear there it means the gun has been fired a lot!!

[MarkT]

I lucked out recently on a used gun purchase.  I've almost never bought used but I wanted to see what value I could find for a bolt deer rifle in 300 win mag, in a Savage or similar high quality rifle.  Looked locally on armslist.  Found one listed in a local small town.  It was a Weatherby Vanguard, very lightly used, owned by the deceased father of a local LEO.  He said it may have had one box of ammo through it - and it looked it.  Had a VX3 3.5-10 50mm  Leopold on it. He was firm on the price but I could see it was worth it having browsed prices before I left.  The scope alone sells new for about his price.  The rifling was perfect, so was the muzzle; the bolt operated flawlessly and with no slop. The trigger felt a little heavier than I like but that's easy to fix. The scope showed more wear - it was older than the rifle. Leupold says it's a 1990 scope.  Paid his $600 price, changed to a Boyd's laminated stock so I could float the barrel, added a 20moa picatinny one piece scope mount and a Timney trigger.  Now the rifle cold-groups in just over 1/2" with a Lead Sled and factory ammo.

[F6Dave]

Thanks for all the information about buying a used S&W 586.  Here's a follow up.  My friend read all the posts and decided since this was his first firearm purchase, he wasn't comfortable evaluating a used one.  So he found a new 686 with a 6" barrel online for less than $200 more, and is having it shipped to a nearby gun shop.  The 686 is the stainless version of the 586, and I think the cylinder may hold 7 rounds on the newer versions.

I think he'll like it.  That's a great revolver and a great choice for a first purchase.

[Jess from VA]

A good used anything may only save you $200 or so from new all the time.  

The 7-shot 686 is called a 686 Plus.

I bought this used one last year....... Performance Center 686 Plus, 2.5"bbl, round butt. (saved about $250, barely used)


Put new Smith smaller Magna grips on it that I prefer. (this is only a six shooter, round butt, 3"bbl 686)

[phideux]

I'd rather have the older 586. The "pre-lock" guns have a much smoother action.

[Jess from VA]

I'm no fan of the (stupid) Smith locks, or the internal MIM parts either. 

But Performance Center stuff has pretty nice actions. 

[Chrisj CMA]

Three of our revolvers have the IL.  They have never been a problem.  However, we have never used them, not once.

I would put the key somewhere safe and never turn that lock and you will forget it's there.

If you have a gun with the IL there is a guy on the S&W board that makes a plug so you can remove it and plug the hole if it bugs you that much.

[phideux]

Three of our revolvers have the IL.  They have never been a problem.  However, we have never used them, not once.

I would put the key somewhere safe and never turn that lock and you will forget it's there.

If you have a gun with the IL there is a guy on the S&W board that makes a plug so you can remove it and plug the hole if it bugs you that much.

If you've never used them how do you know there is no problem??? That's like saying my bike is 100% reliable, but I've never started it. How can you buy 3 guns and not shoot them??? The hole from the lock doesn't bother me, after Smith took the firing pin off the hammer, started using transfer bars and now the locks, the actions have gone downhill, sure you can get a gunsmith to smooth them out some but it still ain't the same.

[Jess from VA]

I have two with the lock.  I've never locked them, and never will.

There have been a couple of isolated reports of them locking the gun up, but that is a very remote possibility.

My theory is that locking and unlocking them all the time might loosen up the mechanism so it might inadvertently lock on it's own.  The few reports of lockup seem to have been on light frame (scandium) big bores like .44 mags (like the Night Guard series).  

The mechanism can be removed and the hole plugged (or not).  If I was worried about it, I'd do it.  

My idea of locking up a gun is putting it in my safe, or putting the safety on a loaded firearm (if it has one).

I don't like the idea of a key locking a gun up.  That's lawyers and liability crap.  But with small children (and even older ones), you have to do something.

The story:  https://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/smith-and-wesson-internal-lock/

http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-revolvers-1980-present/184417-internal-lock-failure-happened-me.html

Short of disabling the lock (with or without the plug),  I think if one of these was my primary defense or carry weapon (it's not), it might be prudent to add the key to your car key ring, so it's always with you.

I wonder if the Smith key will unlock handcuffs?  Another reason to carry it?  



Handcuff key:
 

[Chrisj CMA]

Three of our revolvers have the IL.  They have never been a problem.  However, we have never used them, not once.

I would put the key somewhere safe and never turn that lock and you will forget it's there.

If you have a gun with the IL there is a guy on the S&W board that makes a plug so you can remove it and plug the hole if it bugs you that much.

If you've never used them how do you know there is no problem??? That's like saying my bike is 100% reliable, but I've never started it. How can you buy 3 guns and not shoot them??? The hole from the lock doesn't bother me, after Smith took the firing pin off the hammer, started using transfer bars and now the locks, the actions have gone downhill, sure you can get a gunsmith to smooth them out some but it still ain't the same.

Lol, we use the guns all the time, never used or functioned the IL.  If it hasn't locked itself on the 50 cal I doubt it will on the smaller guns either.

Not sure what you are talking about as far as transfer bars. I have a pinned and recessed model 19 from the 70's (no IL) it has the firing pin on the hammer.

I also have a 686 from this century with the IL and frame mounted firing pin. The rest of the internals are identical to the model 19 and the action is smooth as butter.  I functioned both the 686 and the Ruger 100 side by side and there was no comparison. The 686 was like a fine watch and the Ruger was like a farm implement.

Please tell me what a transfer bar is that is a new feature you speak of