NY Governor Cuomo Celebrates Allowing Abortion Up Until Birth

[Serk]

Since we're now knee deep in the muck (And have managed to keep it mostly civil, which is refreshing) I'll add my $0.02 at a higher level:

The true issue at hand isn't pro-choice, pro-life, for abortion, against abortion, etc.... The demarcation line at the heart of all this is at what point does a fetus become a baby.

For some folks it's the moment of conception, for some it's when the heart starts beating, or when brain waves are detected, or once the fetus reaches a state of viability where he or she could survive outside the womb (With current tech around 23 weeks btw), I've seen some arguments that that moment shouldn't be until one year after the baby has been born. (Seriously) and others that not until the fetus turns 18 and moves out (Not as seriously).

New York State has moved that goal post from 25 weeks (Which was already way past where I'm comfortable) to 40 weeks, which is extreme IMHO.

But regardless, that is what the people of New York have decided.

But the true issue at hand, as I said, is at what point are we as a society willing to draw that line, there has to be a line, it's just a question of where we put it.

For me, 12 weeks gestation is that line. But I'm not emperor (Yet!) so that's just my opinion...

(And going through all we went through with fertility treatments, IUI, IVF, high risk pregnancy, a month spent in the NICU that we did with the triplets evolved my views on this a great deal, I used to have more of a New York view of the issue until I saw first hand what was being terminated at the various stages of development.)

[98valk]

https://carm.org/moloch-ancient-pagan-god-child-sacrifice

was done back then for $$$$ as it is now being done for $$$$.

Except now you can't here the baby Scream in PAIN!!

[The emperor has no clothes]

Since we're now knee deep in the muck (And have managed to keep it mostly civil, which is refreshing) I'll add my $0.02 at a higher level:

The true issue at hand isn't pro-choice, pro-life, for abortion, against abortion, etc.... The demarcation line at the heart of all this is at what point does a fetus become a baby.

For some folks it's the moment of conception, for some it's when the heart starts beating, or when brain waves are detected, or once the fetus reaches a state of viability where he or she could survive outside the womb

This is the crux of the matter. My wife and I have differed on this for eternity. And no amount of debate is going to change one’s mind on the subject.

[Skinhead]

What I find odd is that some people are ok with snuffing out an innocent live that hasn't even been given the opportunity to take a breath, but are willing to burn down a city when some gang banger or criminal is shot by the police while resisting arrest.

[f6gal]

Murder?  You decide.

Intact dilation and extraction (late term abortion procedure):  
Feticidal injection (digoxin or KCl) may be administered to soften fetal bones or to comply with laws in physician's jurisdiction.
Insert a speculum into the vagina to hold it open.  
Cleanse vagina and cervix with an antiseptic solution.  
Inject pain medication in the cervix and medication to slow uterine bleeding.
Insert forceps into the uterus to grasp the legs of the fetus.
Remove the body of fetus from the uterus in the breech position, leaving the head inside the uterus.
Make an incision at the cranial base and insert a suction cannula.
Collapse the fetal skull by suctioning out the contents.
Remove the head of fetus from the uterus.  
Remove the placenta.
Suction the uterus to remove any remaining placental tissue.

[Firefighter]

Not talking about you Meathead,, talking about radical liberals and their movement or agenda. Democrats at one time were conservative and liberal, I thought John Kennedy as conservative and other dems. but no other dem. presidents. I don't think the Bushes were conservative either. But dem. presidents tear down our military budget, shrink or military strength and some like Obama seemed to stick his nose up to them.

[f6john]

Since we're now knee deep in the muck (And have managed to keep it mostly civil, which is refreshing) I'll add my $0.02 at a higher level:

The true issue at hand isn't pro-choice, pro-life, for abortion, against abortion, etc.... The demarcation line at the heart of all this is at what point does a fetus become a baby.

For some folks it's the moment of conception, for some it's when the heart starts beating, or when brain waves are detected, or once the fetus reaches a state of viability where he or she could survive outside the womb

This is the crux of the matter. My wife and I have differed on this for eternity. And no amount of debate is going to change one’s mind on the subject.

Gosh I hope you’re wrong if you are speaking of our society as a whole.  This will take a change of the heart and then the mind.

[DirtyDan]

Murder?  You decide.

Intact dilation and extraction (late term abortion procedure):  
Feticidal injection (digoxin or KCl) may be administered to soften fetal bones or to comply with laws in physician's jurisdiction.
Insert a speculum into the vagina to hold it open.  
Cleanse vagina and cervix with an antiseptic solution.  
Inject pain medication in the cervix and medication to slow uterine bleeding.
Insert forceps into the uterus to grasp the legs of the fetus.
Remove the body of fetus from the uterus in the breech position, leaving the head inside the uterus.
Make an incision at the cranial base and insert a suction cannula.
Collapse the fetal skull by suctioning out the contents.
Remove the head of fetus from the uterus.  
Remove the placenta.
Suction the uterus to remove any remaining placental tissue.

I will be thinking on this for some time

Dan

[Oss]

Connie thanks for your post

All pregnant women should see the movie

[Bighead]

It seems like killing babies is almost exclusively a Liberal illness...Charles Darwin comes to mind.
And yes there are circumstances where termination of a pregnancy is unavoidable, like the mother's life is at risk. Other than that, this holocaust must be "Terminated".

34% of Republicans support “Choice”. This hardly makes it “exclusively a liberal illness”

I won’t contest your numbers but they don’t mean anything. Not all Republicans are all that conservative just as all Democrats are not all equally liberal. As an an example, I am a registered Democrat since 1970 but I want no part of where the Democrats are heading. I’m a conservative and not sure what that makes me other athan a target for people like Obama, Hilliary, Nancy and Chuck. I’d rather think I’m more American than anything else. If you can find me a conservative that supports this, I’d certainly like to speak to them. I will go out on a limb and say I think it is a 100% liberal illness regardless of party affiliation.

And I say you are completely wrong. I myself know several conservatives who feel the government has no place in this issue, and that it is an individual right.

I might agree with them. But the subject at hand is/was choice and super late term abortion, 100% liberal agenda. Ask your conservative acquaintances how they view this latest development in NY. I would love to hear their response.

Don't need to ask. Already know. They flew themselves and their 30 year old daughter to Seattle for a third trimester abortion because of gene issue that caused retardation. I can't remember the name of the condition. These are folks that have voted Republican their entire life.
 The point is, not everybody, liberals or conservatives can be pigeon holed into a preconceived position. There are plenty of liberals that would also NEVER consider an abortion. Myself being one. 100% you say ? Not even frigging close.

So your friends killed a baby because it was mentally retarded? Am i reading this correctly?

No because it MIGHT be retarted

[Bighead]

What I find odd is that some people are ok with snuffing out an innocent live that hasn't even been given the opportunity to take a breath, but are willing to burn down a city when some gang banger or criminal is shot by the police while resisting arrest.

AMEN!

[Serk]

[MAD6Gun]

Connie thanks for your post

All pregnant women should see the movie

 My brother and I went and saw Goznel last summer. You didn't see it advertised on the normal channels because it makes abortion clinics look real bad. Check it out....

[Robert]

In 2015, approximately 35% of all pregnancies in New York City (excluding spontaneous miscarriages) ended in abortion (CDC).

In 2015, unmarried women accounted for 86% of all abortions (CDC).

Black women were more than 3.5 times more likely to have an abortion in 2015 than white women (CDC).

The state of Florida records a reason for every abortion that occurs within its borders each year. In 2015, there were 71,740 abortions in Florida.

Percentage    Reason
.001%    The pregnancy resulted from an incestuous relationship
.065%    The woman's life was endangered by the pregnancy
.085%    The woman was raped
.288%    The woman's physical health was threatened by the pregnancy
.294%    The woman's psychological health was threatened by the pregnancy
.666%    There was a serious fetal abnormality
6.268%    The woman aborted for social or economic reasons
92.330%    No reason (elective)


Margret Sanger founder of planned parenthood Sanger delivered this speech to the New History Society, part of a series on "My Plan for Peace." For other versions, including one published in the Birth Control Review,
Sanger argued for compulsory sterilization and segregation for people with disabilities.

(c) keep the doors of Immigration closed to the entrance of certain aliens whose condition is known to be detrimental to the stamina of the race, such as feeble-minded, idiots, morons, insane, syphiletic, epileptic, criminal, professional prostitutes, and others in this class barred from entrance by the Immigration Laws of 1924.

(d) apply a stern and rigid policy of sterilization, and segregation to that grade of population whose progeny is already tainted or whose inheritance is such that objectionable traits may be transmitted to offspring.

This was estimated in the millions.

https://www.nyu.edu/projects/sanger/webedition/app/documents/show.php?sangerDoc=129037.xml


Sanger’s eugenics project carried its own racial preoccupation. In a letter of Dec. 10, 1939, to Clarence Gamble (cited here), she explains the nature of her organization’s outreach to the African-American community: “The most successful educational approach to the Negro is through a religious appeal. We don’t want the word to get out that we want to exterminate the Negro population, and the minister is the man who can straighten out that idea if it ever occurs to any of their more rebellious members.” In her autobiography she proudly recounts her address to the women of the Ku Klux Klan in Silver Lake, N.J., in 1926.


"The most merciful thing that a large family does to one of its infant members is to kill it." Margaret Sanger, Women and the New Race (Eugenics Publ. Co., 1920, 1923)

[Patrick]

I think many would be surprised what placenta's are used for.

[Patrick]

New Yorker's cheered when Cuomo announced that. Now other states are jumping on the band wagon, such as Virginia.

[3fan4life]

New Yorker's cheered when Cuomo announced that. Now other states are jumping on the band wagon, such as Virginia.

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/virginia-bill-would-legalize-abortion-up-to-birth/

Some liberal idiot has indeed proposed such a bill in VA.

The difference between VA and NY is that here, It will NOT pass.

I'll bet that it never even makes it to the floor for a vote.

[G-Man]

New Yorker's cheered when Cuomo announced that. Now other states are jumping on the band wagon, such as Virginia.

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/virginia-bill-would-legalize-abortion-up-to-birth/

Some liberal idiot has indeed proposed such a bill in VA.

The difference between VA and NY is that here, It will NOT pass.

I'll bet that it never even makes it to the floor for a vote.

I heard a question and answer session with the woman who wrote the proposed bill in Virginia.  After a couple of evasive answers, they got her to actually say that her bill allows for the abortion of the fetus even while the cervix is dilating (the mother is in labor).

Sickening.

[Psychotic Bovine]

New Yorker's cheered when Cuomo announced that. Now other states are jumping on the band wagon, such as Virginia.

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/virginia-bill-would-legalize-abortion-up-to-birth/

Some liberal idiot has indeed proposed such a bill in VA.

The difference between VA and NY is that here, It will NOT pass.

I'll bet that it never even makes it to the floor for a vote.

I heard a question and answer session with the woman who wrote the proposed bill in Virginia.  After a couple of evasive answers, they got her to actually say that her bill allows for the abortion of the fetus even while the cervix is dilating (the mother is in labor).

Sickening.

Todd Gilbert, the Republican House majority leader, questioned Tran about the bill during a hearing Monday. He asked Kathy Tran if a woman who has physical signs she is about to give birth could request an abortion if a physician said it could impair her "mental health."

"Where it’s obvious that a woman is about to give birth. She has physical signs that she is about to give birth. Would that still be a point at which she could request an abortion if she was so-certified -- she’s dilating," he asked.

“Mr. Chairman, that would be ... a decision that the doctor, the physician and the woman would make at that point,” Tran replied.

“I understand that,” Gilbert replied. “I’m asking if your bill allows that.”

Tran replied: “My bill would allow that, yes.”


I like how she deflects first of all. Then admits it.  So, it appears all that a woman would have to do is say, in the moment of birthing her child, "I can't do this!".

Then the doctor rips the "group of cells" out and crushes the head.  You know, the totally unfeeling 9 month old group of cells.  What monsters are our society producing?
What the actual F is wrong with these people?  It's like, how can you make late term abortion more vile?  And they responded with, "challenge accepted."  
And how they cheered and applauded their own greatness.

[98valk]

Virginia Democratic Gov. Ralph Northam couldn’t precisely answer whether he supports abortion until birth and suggested an infant could be born and then the mother and doctor could discuss what should happen next, in a Wednesday morning interview.

“If a mother is in labor, I can tell you exactly what would happen. The infant would be delivered. The infant would be kept comfortable. The infant would be resuscitated if that’s what the mother and the family desired, and then a discussion would ensue between the physicians and the mother,” Northam said in a WTOP interview.

Aborting a baby after it has been born is illegal.

His comments come after Democratic Virginia Delegate Kathy Tran introduced HB 2491, or the Repeal Act, in January. The legislation seeks to repeal the state’s current restrictions on late-term abortions. The bill would allow a doctor to perform an abortion when a woman is dilating, meaning she is about to give birth.

https://dailycaller.com/2019/01/30/virginia-governor-northam-abortion/

[DirtyDan]

https://freebeacon.com/issues/northman-on-40-week-abortion-bill-infant-would-be-delivered-and-then-a-discussion-would-ensue-between-the-physicians-and-the-mother/

Dan

[Jess from VA]

But, but.... the death penalty (for adults) is inhuman.   

PS, no it's not (for adults). 

[Serk]

Somehow we've gone from Democrats calling for abortion to be "Safe, Legal and Rare" to full blown, unapologetic unequivocal infanticide.

Wow.

[RP#62]

Somehow we've gone from Democrats calling for abortion to be "Safe, Legal and Rare" to full blown, unapologetic unequivocal infanticide.

Wow.

Infanticide is ok, but a wall is immoral.

-RP

[..]

Somehow we've gone from Democrats calling for abortion to be "Safe, Legal and Rare" to full blown, unapologetic unequivocal infanticide.

Wow.

Infanticide is ok, but a wall is immoral.

-RP

Yep, how warped are the brains that puts those two sentiments together?

[f6john]

I haven’t had time to keep up to date on this the last day or so. Has there been an uproar of condemnation from the middle ground of the the Democratic Party?

[scooperhsd]

There should be. While I AM prochoice, I think it should be a LAST choice. But I don't pretend to know what's right for the ones having the abortion, and I'm not going to wrap it up in religious stuff to justify denying it.

[98valk]

There should be. While I AM prochoice, I think it should be a LAST choice. But I don't pretend to know what's right for the ones having the abortion, and I'm not going to wrap it up in religious stuff to justify denying it.

how can u be prochoice?  the infant baby cannot speak for itself yet. I'm sure we all know without A DOUBT what the infants choice would be.

[98valk]

I haven’t had time to keep up to date on this the last day or so. Has there been an uproar of condemnation from the middle ground of the the Democratic Party?

they probably will be silent like the liberal feminists were, when clinton was having his fun in the white house.

[Jess from VA]

You know, you don't have to be religious at all to be against abortion.  

Every legal system in the world proscribes murder.  While legal systems everywhere do follow religious teaching to some degree, they go far beyond it, of necessity.  (mostly because humans never stop finding new ways to hurt, kill, steal, embezzle, defraud, cheat, enslave, strong-arm, organize in crime, yada)

The courts have tried to make a legal distinction between conception and life by relying on the ability to live outside the womb, and that's fine.  But the scientific truth is that life exists from the moment of conception.  And no legal distinction can change that fact.  And religion aside, the law protects life, right?

Roe v Wade was simply the Court's best effort at compromising a solution, and while they read and cited all manner of scientific study, the end result was just a rational compromise.  From a legal and practical point of view, I think it was the right decision (one third of prenatal life was not protected, but two thirds was protected).  Neither side got what they wanted entirely.  Morally, I'm not so sure.  

I too believe in choice (for a variety of human and practical reasons, beyond rape, incest, and life of the mother), but only during the first trimester as decided in Roe.  But I don't hide behind a legal fiction of viability outside the womb.  Abortion in the first trimester is a killing, but one found to be excusable and not punishable under the law.... now longstanding and well settled law.

But this right up to the moment of birth is wrong, and nothing in this world can make it right.  

I have spent my life discussing and arguing every thorny subject there is, but I have kept silent on abortion.  It is the single hot button subject most likely to cause fist fights (or worse) among friends and strangers, and there is no fix or decision to be made that will ever make it better.

[Oss]

I have come to believe that what were once radical feminists and now just called feminist or LGBTQ are the new racists

They are hell bent on demeaning and dehumanizing not just men, but anything (including a fetus) that gets in their way.  If it has testicles it is an endangered species.  Keep yours warm and safe

Spoiled entitled and arrogant is not a good combination for anyone desiring power of any kind

Jess, as usual, well said.

[..]

It's been a long time coming

Drip, drip, drip

https://www.newsweek.com/george-will-barbara-boxers-position-abortion-74293

[98valk]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MoFwxY2cb08

What do babies do in the womb? Incredible 4D scan reveals unborn baby eating, crying and SNEEZING!

[Moonshot_1]

You know, you don't have to be religious at all to be against abortion.  

Every legal system in the world proscribes murder.  While legal systems everywhere do follow religious teaching to some degree, they go far beyond it, of necessity.  (mostly because humans never stop finding new ways to hurt, kill, steal, embezzle, defraud, cheat, enslave, strong-arm, organize in crime, yada)

The courts have tried to make a legal distinction between conception and life by relying on the ability to live outside the womb, and that's fine.  But the scientific truth is that life exists from the moment of conception.  And no legal distinction can change that fact.  And religion aside, the law protects life, right?

Roe v Wade was simply the Court's best effort at compromising a solution, and while they read and cited all manner of scientific study, the end result was just a rational compromise.  From a legal and practical point of view, I think it was the right decision (one third of prenatal life was not protected, but two thirds was protected).  Neither side got what they wanted entirely.  Morally, I'm not so sure.  

I too believe in choice (for a variety of human and practical reasons, beyond rape, incest, and life of the mother), but only during the first trimester as decided in Roe.  But I don't hide behind a legal fiction of viability outside the womb.  Abortion in the first trimester is a killing, but one found to be excusable and not punishable under the law.... now longstanding and well settled law.

But this right up to the moment of birth is wrong, and nothing in this world can make it right.  

I have spent my life discussing and arguing every thorny subject there is, but I have kept silent on abortion.  It is the single hot button subject most likely to cause fist fights (or worse) among friends and strangers, and there is no fix or decision to be made that will ever make it better.

I don't consider Roe v Wade well settled law. At least not for the purposes of abortion. The majority decision was errant as the judiciary had to legislate a "right to privacy" in that decision that undermined the 10th amendment. That said, the decision only spoke to a woman's right to privacy. It did not speak to an individual's right to due process where this issue should be fought.

A person is an individual at conception. DNA proves that beyond any reasonable doubt. DNA has been used in untold court cases identifying individuals. Human individuals. So it has been accepted as an ultimate means of human identification by the courts. It establishes that an individual person exists.

Either this biological fact is or it is not. It obviously is a fact and therefore due process must be afforded  to any human individual in accordance with the Constitution.

And the fact we are still discussing this more than strongly suggests that anything is settled and from those past decisions we now have people in our society striving to make killing babies at birth legal.

This is worse than Nazi Germany. At least the Jews may have had a chance to escape and fight back.
We have a political party promoting the killing of the most defenseless among us.

History will not be kind to the Democrat Party.

[Jess from VA]

Moonshot, I don't disagree with anything you said. 

Roe v. Wade was created out of whole cloth, and legislated a right to privacy that is not in the constitution.

AND worst of all, rather than being seen as a limitation (as it should be), appears to now be used as justification for late term abortion.

I have little respect for the Roe decision as a piece of legal work.  Only that is has been the law of the land since 1973.

I think you are spot on when pointing out that if a life in being is created at conception, where is that life's due process?  It is as simple (and complicated) as that.   

Even if we got several more Kavanaugh's on the Court (and I hope we do), I do not see them ever overturning Roe as far as the first trimester goes.  I could be wrong.

I also blame the Dem's for this late term murder, but I think a majority (or if not, still a significant percentage) of Rep's today would go on record in support of Roe for the first trimester (only).  I could be wrong on that too.   

[The emperor has no clothes]

Those who say life begins at conception must also believe most birth control pills are considered murder also ?

[Bighead]

Those who say life begins at conception must also believe most birth control pills are considered murder also ?

Now how can you come up with that? Birth control PREVENTS did you read PREVENTS CONCEPTION 

[Robert]

I was thinking when does a baby become self aware? Justification is, its ok to kill a baby because its not self aware right? WRONG, new studies are not only showing that scientists don't have the knowledge and skill to truly define when life begins much less the ability to judge self awareness.

This article has some very interesting information about babies in the womb. Essentially it says you kill your baby while he/she is sleeping.

Article below:

When Does Consciousness Arise in Human Babies?

Does sentience appear in the womb, at birth or during early childhood?

Invasive experiments in rat and lamb pups and observational studies using ultrasound and electrical recordings in humans show that the third-trimester fetus is almost always in one of two sleep states. Called active and quiet sleep, these states can be distinguished using electroencephalography. Their different EEG signatures go hand in hand with distinct behaviors: breathing, swallowing, licking, and moving the eyes but no large-scale body movements in active sleep; no breathing, no eye movements and tonic muscle activity in quiet sleep. These stages correspond to rapid-eye-movement (REM) and slow-wave sleep common to all mammals. In late gestation the fetus is in one of these two sleep states 95 percent of the time, separated by brief transitions.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/when-does-consciousness-arise/

[Gavin_Sons]

Now the Virginia Governor is saying the law will allow a child to be born then the parents and doctors will discuss if it should live or not. This has turned into premeditated murder.

[98valk]

Those who say life begins at conception must also believe most birth control pills are considered murder also ?

Now how can you come up with that? Birth control PREVENTS did you read PREVENTS CONCEPTION 

from what I read yrs ago, the pill does not prevent conception. It prevents the fertilized egg from implanting into the womb so the baby can continue to grow. so the pill prevents growth.