brake pads on SUV

[cookiedough]

25-30K miles ago I got OReillys premium best ceramic brake pads on my SUV doing them myself after around 60K miles on OEM factory ones in the REAR ONLY.  Lifetime warranty but wife heard screetching noises again this week and decided tonight of course after 6 p.m. to take left rear off where it was screetching metal.  WOW,  in 25 to 30K miles tops (about 1/2 life of OEM from factory when new) the rear outer  Oreilly pad was GONE entirely while inside one had a smidge left to go but needed replacing past the groove wear bar for sure.  Oreillys had same set in stock so got them for free tonight since lifetime warranty but seems these now made in India vs. was made in Mexico but same part number.  I decided to replace the OEM metal clips with Oreillys stainless steel ones and having issues since did not replace metal clips OEM from factory last time holding the tabs in.  Here is the issue:

It was getting dark so gave up NO light left tonight in driveway, but tried first new rear OReilly ceramic premium brake pads in OEM clips and would not go in so decided to use OReillys new stainless steel clips figuring they would match better.  Is there a trick besides applying brake grease on the tabs to get them to slide in evenly on both sides of new clips,  I was unable to after several cuss words so gave up tonight until tomorrow when taking off work early and getting rear pads done before it gets dark again.

Should I use a rubber mallet or tap pads in center with hammer should not be that difficult right to go in all the way?  Maybe the made in India same part number is slightly different since do not remember it was that hard to get the made in Mexico same part number pads from OReilly to go in 25-30K miles ago.

Is pretty sad though that the rear OReilly brake pads only lasted not even 30K miles do not think anything is not releasing?  I use a good 1/2 can of brake cleaner as well spraying all over.  My front OEM brake pads from factory are still at say 20-25% at 86K miles on them now will replace before winter for sure,  but for some reason the rear pads only lasted 60K tops OEM and now only 30K miles tops on replacements from OReillys, why?  I thought front brake pads would go first vs. rear pads right?   I asked a mechanic at Pomps tire and service and he said he had the same issue with the rear pads lasting 1/2 as long as the front brake pads, very odd or not?? 

Anyone else have issus with OReillys or other aftermarket brake pads fitting new or OEM tabs and any tricks to get them to go in easier?   Should I put/snap in the factory OEM metal clips holding brake pads in place although since one corner inside was bent outward  tried then the OReillys aftermarket clips seemed to not snap in place all the way up but assume once I get the pads in finally (probably is the issue new clips not in all the way thus outer tabs of brake pads not fitting very easily in place)

[sandy]

After 3 sets of NAPA premium pads failed in 13 months each. I went to using OEM pads on any vehicle I work on. The 3 cars were all different and driven by different people.

[cookiedough]

Yah,  that is what I am thinking as well, but lifetime warranty means can keep going back a few more times I sure hope??  was around 55 per rear set I think last time around and am sure hyundai dealer is more than double that.

After watching a few youtube videos, I think the reason the new brake pads do not slid in the metal clips is due to RUST.  I am going to not try to rush it this time around as I was going to tonight and gave up since both youtube videos recommend to take the bracket off as well and use a file, etc. and remove ALL rust underneath the new metal clips since videos showed very easy to snap new metal clips in place vs. mine cannot due to rust under the new clips am sure of it.  Then apply brake grease as well to help prevent future rust.  I remember 30k miles or so ago, especially rear,  the OEM brake pads were pretty hard to get out as well am sure also due to RUST.  am sure rust underneath metal clips after 80K miles is preventing the new clips from seating in all the way thus causing it to be VERY hard to slide in new brake pads on the new metal clips - dah!  why did I not think of that?  because was in a rush to get that one side done before dark having only 30-40 minutes. 

At least OReillys honored their lifetime warranty on brake pads but not so sure they will keep doing it every 30K miles??   I probably should also replace the rotors since are very rusty and crumbly metal falling off all over, but no pulsating sensation while braking as of yet so not warped at 85K miles on vehicle.  My guess is also the OEM rotors are better than aftermarket autozone or oreillys that carry ONLY a 2 year warranty since OEM so far has lasted 5 years and 85K miles. 

before winter will be doing new front brake pads since by then will be 90K miles and 5+ years so as to not be hastled doing it in the cold winter.   Those front pads seemed much easier to remove at 60K miles since less rust than rear that had at the time around 40% left of pad wear or so., but for some reason NOT as much rust as rear ones.  My guess is winter salt gets trapped and kicked up more so on rear of vehicle vs. front tire area similar to why I always get flat tires only in the rear picking up screws, etc. kicked up front front tire and lodged into rear tires. 

That maybe  my issue as well of NO longevity of rear brake pads since one youtube video said the more rust you have not allowing your rear brake pads to freely move thus the rust is sort of binding the brake pads in those metal clips very tightly causing excessive brake pad wear.  Am sure that is part of it or a big part of ONLY 30K miles out of very rusted rotors all over as compared to the front rotors, etc.    videos showed easily after removing rust behind clips how easy it was to just slide brake pads in, but I cannot NO way only one side goes in and not the other is cockeyed. 

I guess time to do it right and remove the rust as much as possible so metal clips fit in easier thus allowing brake pads to slide in easier as well.  Those rear rotors though at least the surface all around is flaking rust off badly even after only 5 years, but the metal surface of rotors where brake pads hit are not terrible yet NO pulsating while braking, at least not yet am sure it is coming soon though. 

[Bighead]

Something isnt right you should go Through 2 sets of front before a single set or rear pads. At least that has always been my experience. And you can change them out as long as you own that car the lifetime warranty is good. My wife runs a rural postal route and when she was driving her own vehicle I bought lifetime pads and rotors and had to change them about 3 times a year. (No the OEM lasted no longer) They never asked a question they always just gave me a new set.

[f6john]

The calipers could be the problem. Corrosion can cause them to not release completely after applying the brakes. Moisture in the brake fluid and just age can cause the corrosion.

[F6Dave]

After 3 sets of NAPA premium pads failed in 13 months each. I went to using OEM pads on any vehicle I work on. The 3 cars were all different and driven by different people.

I've also been using OEM parts more and more.  I needed some front pads for my F150 recently and was able to order them from the Ford parts website at a good discount, then pick them up at a local dealer the same day.  The price wasn't much more than aftermarket pads, and the OEM kit came with all the metal clips which made the job go easier.

[cookiedough]

The calipers could be the problem. Corrosion can cause them to not release completely after applying the brakes. Moisture in the brake fluid and just age can cause the corrosion.

that is what I thought as well or something else is wrong back there.  I do know the rear rotors entire assembly in the rear is very, very rusted out as compared to the front rotor area for some odd reason both still OEM on a 2014 hyunda santa fe GLS.  Rotors are not warped yet but am guessing they will be in next 20K miles or so then beginning to pulsate.   Yah,  good deal at least lifetime pads I think I paid at OReillys 55 bucks for a rear set and are semi-ceramic heard the full ceramic makes the rotors last longer and might last longer as well while semi-metallic brake pads wears down rotors quicker.   aftermarket Oreilly's rotors are around 70 bucks each so not too bad with 2  year warranty and parts guy there if he is just blowing smoke or not said will be just as good as OEM??   Not sure on that or not though???  He said the BOSCH set being 3 year warranty is best though will last longer has special coating or something on them he said but also costs like 105 bucks each.

[Rams]

Yah,  that is what I am thinking as well, but lifetime warranty means can keep going back a few more times I sure hope??  was around 55 per rear set I think last time around and am sure hyundai dealer is more than double that.

After watching a few youtube videos, I think the reason the new brake pads do not slid in the metal clips is due to RUST.  I am going to not try to rush it this time around as I was going to tonight and gave up since both youtube videos recommend to take the bracket off as well and use a file, etc. and remove ALL rust underneath the new metal clips since videos showed very easy to snap new metal clips in place vs. mine cannot due to rust under the new clips am sure of it.  Then apply brake grease as well to help prevent future rust.  I remember 30k miles or so ago, especially rear,  the OEM brake pads were pretty hard to get out as well am sure also due to RUST.  am sure rust underneath metal clips after 80K miles is preventing the new clips from seating in all the way thus causing it to be VERY hard to slide in new brake pads on the new metal clips - dah!  why did I not think of that?  because was in a rush to get that one side done before dark having only 30-40 minutes.  

At least OReillys honored their lifetime warranty on brake pads but not so sure they will keep doing it every 30K miles??   I probably should also replace the rotors since are very rusty and crumbly metal falling off all over, but no pulsating sensation while braking as of yet so not warped at 85K miles on vehicle.  My guess is also the OEM rotors are better than aftermarket autozone or oreillys that carry ONLY a 2 year warranty since OEM so far has lasted 5 years and 85K miles.  

before winter will be doing new front brake pads since by then will be 90K miles and 5+ years so as to not be hastled doing it in the cold winter.   Those front pads seemed much easier to remove at 60K miles since less rust than rear that had at the time around 40% left of pad wear or so., but for some reason NOT as much rust as rear ones.  My guess is winter salt gets trapped and kicked up more so on rear of vehicle vs. front tire area similar to why I always get flat tires only in the rear picking up screws, etc. kicked up front front tire and lodged into rear tires.  

That maybe  my issue as well of NO longevity of rear brake pads since one youtube video said the more rust you have not allowing your rear brake pads to freely move thus the rust is sort of binding the brake pads in those metal clips very tightly causing excessive brake pad wear.  Am sure that is part of it or a big part of ONLY 30K miles out of very rusted rotors all over as compared to the front rotors, etc.    videos showed easily after removing rust behind clips how easy it was to just slide brake pads in, but I cannot NO way only one side goes in and not the other is cockeyed.  

I guess time to do it right and remove the rust as much as possible so metal clips fit in easier thus allowing brake pads to slide in easier as well.  Those rear rotors though at least the surface all around is flaking rust off badly even after only 5 years, but the metal surface of rotors where brake pads hit are not terrible yet NO pulsating while braking, at least not yet am sure it is coming soon though.  

Environmental issues and riding the brakes or hard braking is hell on pads, rotors, calipers and hoses.  My wife never takes her foot off the accelerator until she knows she can’t make it through a light and then rides the brakes firmly to stop.  While I tend to allow gravity to work for me and immediately take my foot off the accelerator if I think I even have a chance of it being close to entering an intersection on a yellow.   My pads last three times as long as hers and I’m normally pulling heavy loads.

Save yourself time and trouble, change out your calipers and rubber brake hoses.   Frequently, rubber brake hoses will swell on the inside (constricting) and cause the calipers to keep pressure on the brake pads causing them to stay in contact with the rotors.   Your power brakes provide sufficient pressure to force the fluid through the swollen brake hoses but when you release the brake pedal, the brake fluid can not flow back, thus causing the vehicle to move with brakes applied.  I see it quite frequently.  

BTW, O’Reily’s was being generous by giving you new pads, check their warranty, that warranty is for manufacturers defects if they wanted to be sticky about it.  Check out the fine print.  After a few pads, they will deny your requests.

Rams

[Bighead]

Ron my experience with the warranty at O’Reily’s has always been a good one. I bought (as I posted above) one set of lifetime warranty pads and over about a four year period I know I exchanged them over a dozen times zero questions ask.

[cookiedough]

Ron my experience with the warranty at O’Reily’s has always been a good one. I bought (as I posted above) one set of lifetime warranty pads and over about a four year period I know I exchanged them over a dozen times zero questions ask.

4 years and a dozen brake pads?  Yikes, and I thought mine was bad 1 set in less than 2 years and near 30K miles tops.  Tomorrow when I have more free time I am going to replace the metal clips but before that wire brush/file out the rust behind the metal clips to make the brake pads go in easier since that I think is a big part of my trouble they are binding NO room to release since the new rear pads do not fit currently in the metal clips due to rust behind the metal clips holding pads in place. 

OReillys said no issues to keep replacing brake pads as long as keeping the vehicle but they did agree something is not right since rear pads lasting less than 1/2 as much as front pads.

[Rams]

Lifetime warranty but wife heard screetching noises again this week and decided tonight of course pads right?  

I believe that caliper is sticking, why is something you will have to figure out.   If it were mine, I'd replace both calipers and hoses and take a close look at the rotors.   Any scoring on the rotors and they would be replaced also.   I'd also flush out and replace the brake fluid.  Yes, it costs a bit of cash to do this but, the difference in braking power is amazing and to be honest, your wife might be behind me someday and I'd feel a lot better knowing she has good brakes.  

Ron my experience with the warranty at O’Reily’s has always been a good one. I bought (as I posted above) one set of lifetime warranty pads and over about a four year period I know I exchanged them over a dozen times zero questions ask.

4 years and a dozen brake pads?  Yikes, and I thought mine was bad 1 set in less than 2 years and near 30K miles tops.  Tomorrow when I have more free time I am going to replace the metal clips but before that wire brush/file out the rust behind the metal clips to make the brake pads go in easier since that I think is a big part of my trouble they are binding NO room to release since the new rear pads do not fit currently in the metal clips due to rust behind the metal clips holding pads in place. 

OReillys said no issues to keep replacing brake pads as long as keeping the vehicle but they did agree something is not right since rear pads lasting less than 1/2 as much as front pads.

O'Reillys must need the business.   Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against them but, I do read the fine print (most of the time).   The markup on brake pads is huge (about 60%) so, it's not like they are throwing out the baby with the bath water but...…………….

Rams  

[Chrisj CMA]

A clue to me is the mallet to pound the pads in. This should not be. You may need a tool (cheap at car parts place) to turn the pistons back

[cookiedough]

Well,  I checked the rear right side and the 25-30K mile pads I put on same time were darn good 90% left or so.  That means that left side was sticking the brake pads on rotors or not releasing the caliper or both. 

What I did find out was the bracket holding on the brake pads had some rust (although not much 1/16" at most if that)  on each underside where the metal tabs of the brake pads slide in suppose to slide in freely.  I also found out the new OReilly clip on tabs do not fit as well as my OEM metal tabs on the bracket for some reason so went back to the OEM ones just cleaning them off is all only slight rust but were in good shape still so used them although most say to replace them with new ones. 

I got the back left rear pad to go on pretty easily but the front one still took some finesse and cussing even after I spent over an hour chiseling/scraping behind on the bracket where the brake pad tabs are suppose to snap on.    The left rear outside brake pad fit this time but still binding just a tad.  I really think that even since the rear OEM brake pads when vehicle was new lasted only 60K,  the bracket that holds on the brake pads was cut wrong just a smidge to tight from the factory binding especially the rear left front brake pad which was worn down to NOTHING left now in 25-30K miles tops got from OReillys.   I got the rust off that left rear side pretty good and the metal tabs went on easier and all the way on but still the OReilly's brake pad side tabs did not go on very easily now either so used OEM ones still fit better/tighter.  If not the OEM bracket cut wrong from factory it must be that the OReilly's aftermarket brake pads are cut just a 1/16" too long from the supplier not fitting in that bracket holding them on?  That could be?  I do not remember the OEM brake pads even in the rear fitting super, super tight, but were still sort of hard to pull off at 60K miles ONLY in the rear not the front.

going to before winter inspect the front OEM brake pads since will have 90-95K mles on them still OEM before last winter I checked and was over 30% still left still showing the middle groove on pads just barely.  The OEM front rotors looks VERY good NO rust hardly but the OEM rotors on back (especially left rear) has tons of rust for some reason.  I probably should have replaced the rear rotors with new pads now,  but not sure we will be keeping the vehicle much longer than 20K miles so will see?  I know is basic maintenance, but had to stick 450 bucks before this winter in front entire strut assembly at only 65K miles OEM ones were leaking oil and noisy over bumps in road.   Dealer would NOT stand behind the 5 year 60K miles warranty since just a smidge over 60K but under 5 years like 4 years is all since new.     NO pulsating at all yet on OEM rotors having 86K miles on vehicle even with especially the rear rotor on top and bottom of rotors surfaces showing pretty bad rusting. 

I still think that left rear outside brake pad is sticking some since can hear a very, very slight grinding noise still at low speeds just got done test driving it,   but am pretty sure it is the new outside brake pad rubbing on the bottom rusted spot on the rotor and will go away soon once the rear left outside brake pads wears down a smidge more not touching rust on bottom outside rotor surface.  Thus the reason why both OEM brake pads at around 65K and now this Oreilly one at 86K rear outside brake pad was down to NO brake pad left at all vs. inside rear ones still had a smidge of the pad left. 

Either way, I got the left rear brake pads on and if the very, very slight noise goes away soon when tire spins around,  I will live with it since the wife is thinking of getting something else to drive even though I do not want to go from a 290hp V6 in our larger SUV to what she wants being a small underpowered 150 hp 4 cylinder either say honda hrv or subaru crosstrek both new around 24K  but so tiny inside and NO fricking power to pass vehicles since 99% of our daily driving is rural hwys and county roads until we get into Madison WI traffic.   I test drove a subaru crosstrek and way underpowered and LOUD and too small for me but then again I am 120lbs more than the misses but passing power sucks on the hwy. not sure I can live with that nor can she.   With 290hp V6 a slight push on the gas pedal and it zips around slower cars with ease and no LOUD noise like engine is going to blow up as with most 4 cylinders.    Plus,  gas mileage on the hwy is 26 avg mpg with our SUV FWD V6 and those AWD 4 cylinders ONLY get say 28 avg mpg on the hwy so not much better mpg at all.  IN town they get much better mpg being 4 vs. 6 cylinders, but over 90% of our driving is hwy. driving 62 mph. 

Wife wants to go test drive a subaru crosstrek and honda HRV since is her commuter vehicle not mine and have probably only driven our SUV in 5 years about 100 times is all.  I think a good time to get rid of our SUV would be AFTER this winter though since by then the tires will need replacing both the snow tires and factory OEM tires being Kumho Crugen's that have NO JOKE about 50K miles on them and still 6/32" tread will probably still last all of next summer before going down to wear bars.  I have 1 good winter left easily out of the snow tires being 4th winter as well as all this summer and next summer on OEM factory Kumho tires.   Problem is resale sucks on used vehicles around by then 100K miles dealers not giving zippo on trade in vs. we got a super great offer last summer when SUV had 65K miles on it from Subaru dealer at 15K trade in on a new subaru crosstrek costing 24K new which was a GREAT deal their first offer was 13.5K trade in and I laughed at them wanting 15K no less and they came back and gave it to me much to my surprise.  Now next summer with 100K miles or more I would be lucky to get 10K trade in even though runs well nothing wrong with it new struts and one sticking left rear brake pad is all.    OH yah, rear backup camera stopped working as well this summer when in reverse.  Wife after that wanted new vehicle since getting an OEM rearview camera at stealership was over 500 fricking dollars NO thanks plus 200 to install.   

One thing is for sure,  not going to stick tons more money into our 2014 SUV like my mother in law did with her older but in very good shape body wise 2007 buick rendesvous SUV that only has 120K miles on it is all.  Her suspension is pretty bad having to replace shocks/struts and other parts all around and still makes noises over bumps, etc. along of course new rotors and brake pads and other suspension/brake parts to a total of like 1500 bucks total when her SUV is really only worth 5-6 grand.  She is also very fussy on rust and her left front fender area above tire was rusting ever so slighly so she had that panel repainted as well for 500 bucks.  Sticking over 2 grand into a 6 grand vehicle IMO is too much wasted money.  I told mother in law now she will hopefully NOT have the tranny or other electrical things go wrong for she must drive that buick SUV another 3-4 years to get her money's worth out of all she recently stuck into it.  By the way, her Buick dealership wanted to charge her 3 grand for all the suspension work vs. a few other mom/pop service shops around 1500 bucks total.  Goes to show you that GM dealerships labor and same exact parts are thru the roof in pricing so not worth it. 

Since my issue is either probably the OEM left rear bracket holding the brake pads on and/or the aftermarket OReillys side tabs of the brake pads cut a tad bit too long,  I think unless OReillys stands behind another lifetime warranty set of another rear brake pads in another 30K miles which they said they would,  if we have the vehicle that long, will get both the bracket and new brake pads (1/2 the cost as Oreillys) from Rockauto.com and take my chances with them.  Warranty on their good brake pads though are 12 months and 12000 miles vs. lifetime at OReillys but only 30 bucks vs. 60 bucks at OReillys. 

I got my SUV and kids Pontiac Vibe Moog front struts/sway bar links from rockauto.com and had good luck with them charging me 1/2 the cost of anywhere else locally I could get same exact part from.   When I even had a slight cut in one of my kids Pontiac vibes struts that did not affect longevity since was the excess rubber outside the coil spring that was sliced open 1 inch or so,  I called RockAuto and send picture of cut via email and they said my choice either send entire front assembly back on their dime shipping and  they will send new one out or give me a credit.  I took the 25 dollar credit we agreed upon since shipping was going to be that costing Rockauto that much or more shipping old one back to them and shipping new one back to me again. 

[cookiedough]

After 3 sets of NAPA premium pads failed in 13 months each. I went to using OEM pads on any vehicle I work on. The 3 cars were all different and driven by different people.

Did your OEM brake pads last a lot longer than 12 months seeing as how Napa premium brake pads did not last even 1 year or so?    Just curious?   

My issue is with rear left rotor/caliper/bracket or Oreillys aftermarket brake pads being cut smidge too long in side tabs of pads since the right rear side brake pads are showing no horrible wearing issues in 25-30k miles and went in easier than left rear side for sure.   Somehow still the left rear outside especially brake pads that 2 times now are worn down to NOTHING way too early are not sliding in as easily as they should even after I chiseled out the brackets rust from behind those metal clips pretty darn good.  They went in this time after chiseling out the slight rust and regreasing with synthetic brake grease,  but still should not go in/out that hard.  Going to a stealership and proving to them that the left rear brake bracket is bad from factory holding on the brake pads will be pointless went around and around with them on the SUV front struts and was pointless do not like that dealers service dept. even after I proved to them that the OEM top rubber swivel bushing mount of the strut that was redone with NEW part number does NOT fit the OEM factory strut on top they still said NO.  I said then make them fit and they could NOT so had to use still the so-so shape OEM top rubber swivel mount with bearing in it that grinds a tad.  All dealers want is money at customers expense even though they do not even know how their struts fit together since they did not with the new factory OEM replacement part number that did not fit my new OEM factory struts since I bought from rockauto.com and not them they choosed to ignore me saying sorry, you did not buy that part from us at 3x's the fricking cost even though same strut parts.   Basically, their revamped part number replaced the OEM part number on top of strut that they can no longer get old OEM one,  and are different sizes thus customer is screwed still which is totally not right.  Just wish I got in sooner than 60K on those struts going bad did not notice leaking until around 62K miles and struts should NOT start leaking at 60K miles and only 4 years from being new, more like 100K miles or more.  I doubt I will buy another Hyundai SUV even though overall it has been a great running vehicle in 86K miles no engine/tranny major issues just the little things like rear backup camera went out,  struts bad too soon, and rear brakes.

[Bighead]

Cookie the pads I describe were on a mail jeep that my wife drove every day with 700+ stop and goes a day.

[cookiedough]

Cookie the pads I describe were on a mail jeep that my wife drove every day with 700+ stop and goes a day.

good to know OReillys still stood behind lifetime warranty brake pads they are loosing money on them for sure since pretty sure markup is double their cost say 30 bucks per set cost vs. 55 or so msrp to customer.  going thru 2 sets they break even no profit, but 3 or more sets then they loose money whereas some dealerships markup is sometime triple their cost.

[Binkie]

The clips install before the pads. If they don’t fit and the caliper bracket is rusted you may need to clean up the rust for it to fit. Usually if one pad wears significantly more than the other it means either the piston isn’t retracting because it’s frozen or the caliper slides are frozen.

[cookiedough]

The clips install before the pads. If they don’t fit and the caliper bracket is rusted you may need to clean up the rust for it to fit. Usually if one pad wears significantly more than the other it means either the piston isn’t retracting because it’s frozen or the caliper slides are frozen.

Yah,  I used a screwdriver sharp point to get 1/16" of rust out of the bracket where the clips and pads go into.  The pads went in, but still the outside left rear one was still hard to get in that metal clip and I know I got down to bare metal, very odd. 

I will call the stealership to see how much a left rear bracket and left rear caliper costs.  I pushed the caliper (round inside part with rubber grommet around) out with a rubber clamp needed of course to get the new brake pads to fit, but the left rear side was harder to get back out than the right rear side was and the rubber seal looked fine but caliper is all rusted around the inside rear round part that touches the inside rear brake pad.    How does one check to see if the piston/caliper is frozen?  It did move outward with some force from a rubber clamp I had but how do you check to see if not moving and releasing when applying brakes?

[Binkie]

Calipers are cheap so if you suspect it’s sticking just replace it.

[Davemn]

I’m no expert but my brakes were hanging and it turned out to be the hoses. They were collapsing and not releasing the calipers. Easy and cheap.

[Tx Bohemian]

Maybe it states somewhere in all this posting (ain't got time to read through it all), what kind of vehicle are you working on?

[cookiedough]

Maybe it states somewhere in all this posting (ain't got time to read through it all), what kind of vehicle are you working on?

2014 hyundai santa fe GLS 3.3L V6 FWD