MAYBE something that Might shed some light on mass shootings

[old2soon]

         My next store neighbor is a retired school teacher and he is a minister now. Here in Missouri the corporal punishment was eliminated late 80s early 90s and school nurses and doctors started pushing drugs instead if discipline. Also there was a large spate of violent video games introduced. And I believe around the similar time frame we went from kids winning and losing at sports to participation awards. These kids have no concept of winning and losing. And they spend hours every day "killing people" in video games and just maybe thoughts turn to-lets try this-killing-for real. And I might add-these kids from the 80s and 90s are "adults" now. Yeah-I KNOW this sounds like beyond left field but his conversation the other day-before El Paso happened-got me to thinkin some. And do NOT fergit more and more states are legalizing smokin dope. And I do NOT profess to be a head shrink nor a medical doctor. Just some thoughts that maybe might could start to splain some stuff. RIDE SAFE.

[..]

Add in the "Superman" complex developed by being able to verbally assault others online in the myriad of forums there are.

There was a piece on the local NPR station this afternoon and some of the contributors were talking about the level of vitriol in online forums. NO, not just political but forums covering many subjects from religion, LGBTQ........................., cooking, everything.

This has been going on for years and I would imagine is now "normal" for many.

[Moonshot_1]

         My next store neighbor is a retired school teacher and he is a minister now. Here in Missouri the corporal punishment was eliminated late 80s early 90s and school nurses and doctors started pushing drugs instead if discipline. Also there was a large spate of violent video games introduced. And I believe around the similar time frame we went from kids winning and losing at sports to participation awards. These kids have no concept of winning and losing. And they spend hours every day "killing people" in video games and just maybe thoughts turn to-lets try this-killing-for real. And I might add-these kids from the 80s and 90s are "adults" now. Yeah-I KNOW this sounds like beyond left field but his conversation the other day-before El Paso happened-got me to thinkin some. And do NOT fergit more and more states are legalizing smokin dope. And I do NOT profess to be a head shrink nor a medical doctor. Just some thoughts that maybe might could start to splain some stuff. RIDE SAFE.

I think you are on the right track.

I've thought this for some time as well.

The prolific violence that we are seeing, not only mass shootings, but political protests, and even the social media are a somewhat recent phenomenon.

Our Senior Class actually brought guns to school for trap shooting in PE class.
Nothing bad ever happened.

But the relatively recent explosion of behavior meds for kids (my kid was on them too) seems to be quite coincidental.

There are millions of kids who have benefited from these drugs. No doubt. But statistically if 1% of a million kids have a bad experience with the drug, that is 10000 kids with adverse reactions. Not all will grow up to mass shooters, but 1% of those 10000 is still a hundred kids at risk.

Throw an unending stream of violent video games and 24/7 texting and social media and the result is not surprising.

[Jess from VA]

I agree with all of this.

Add to it the apparent normalization of mass shootings (as widely carried in the media).

Now, one wonders if one of these incidents will likely give rise to more, in short order.


In my youth, the most powerful weapon I ever used on larger adversaries (and more than one), was a stick.  It would never have occurred to me to shoot anyone.  (Of course, I was a sane and rational, and unmedicated human)

[MarkT]

I agree on the above points - been saying them myself for some time.

I just won't go places anymore where I can't carry.  And I'm upping the firepower.

[old2soon]

I just won't go places anymore where I can't carry.  And I'm upping the firepower.

             I Duz HEAR ya Bro!  RIDE SAFE.

[Serk]

Sudden outbreak of common sense from Neil deGrasse Tyson... I'm sure his friends on the left will tear him apart for daring to speak logic to emotion:

[DIGGER]

         My next store neighbor is a retired school teacher and he is a minister now. Here in Missouri the corporal punishment was eliminated late 80s early 90s and school nurses and doctors started pushing drugs instead if discipline. Also there was a large spate of violent video games introduced. And I believe around the similar time frame we went from kids winning and losing at sports to participation awards. These kids have no concept of winning and losing. And they spend hours every day "killing people" in video games and just maybe thoughts turn to-lets try this-killing-for real. And I might add-these kids from the 80s and 90s are "adults" now. Yeah-I KNOW this sounds like beyond left field but his conversation the other day-before El Paso happened-got me to thinkin some. And do NOT fergit more and more states are legalizing smokin dope. And I do NOT profess to be a head shrink nor a medical doctor. Just some thoughts that maybe might could start to splain some stuff. RIDE SAFE.

I think you are on the right track.

I've thought this for some time as well.

The prolific violence that we are seeing, not only mass shootings, but political protests, and even the social media are a somewhat recent phenomenon.

Our Senior Class actually brought guns to school for trap shooting in PE class.
Nothing bad ever happened.

But the relatively recent explosion of behavior meds for kids (my kid was on them too) seems to be quite coincidental.

There are millions of kids who have benefited from these drugs. No doubt. But statistically if 1% of a million kids have a bad experience with the drug, that is 10000 kids with adverse reactions. Not all will grow up to mass shooters, but 1% of those 10000 is still a hundred kids at risk.

Throw an unending stream of violent video games and 24/7 texting and social media and the result is not surprising.

Sounds like a legal defense.....and a jury somewherr would vote yo set the poor guy free

[Wizzard]

Kids today are becoming desensitized to death and violence, due to a myriad of things present that are accelerating. I fear its going to get worse and no laws or controls are going to stop it. We have to look within ourselves. Like it or not, it is a heart issue.

[Skinhead]

Let's not forget the failure to enforce the law.  People and authority figures saying it is ok to break our laws (immigration, Fast and Furious) and the courts actually standing in the way of those (Trump) trying to enforce the laws on the books, sends the message to these D-bags that it is ok to break laws, if it supports your agenda and/or beliefs.  And it all starts with not correcting bad behavior at a young age.  When little Johnny doesn't get his ass handed to him when he disrespects his parents as a child, he feels he a disrespect anyone.  They tied the hands of school officials as well, so there are no repercussions for anti-social behavior.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Sudden outbreak of common sense from Neil deGrasse Tyson... I'm sure his friends on the left will tear him apart for daring to speak logic to emotion:

I have no problem with his statement. I would add though, we as a society put much effort and money into solving, curing those issues. We don’t seem to be near as vigilant in mitigating the gun violence issue.

[DIGGER]

Sudden outbreak of common sense from Neil deGrasse Tyson... I'm sure his friends on the left will tear him apart for daring to speak logic to emotion:

I have no problem with his statement. I would add though, we as a society put much effort and money into solving, curing those issues. We don’t seem to be near as vigilant in mitigating the gun violence issue.

It's still my thoughts that in these cases where there was mass unprovoked senseless  shootings, that if there was automatic quick judicial death sentences carried out within days of the act that there would be a whole lot less of them.   If they knew they were going to be executed within days of there act of violence that they wouldn't be as likely to do it.   If they were planning on suicide anyways there is no deterent available.     

[The emperor has no clothes]

Sudden outbreak of common sense from Neil deGrasse Tyson... I'm sure his friends on the left will tear him apart for daring to speak logic to emotion:

I have no problem with his statement. I would add though, we as a society put much effort and money into solving, curing those issues. We don’t seem to be near as vigilant in mitigating the gun violence issue.

It's still my thoughts that in these cases where there was mass unprovoked senseless  shootings, that if there was automatic quick judicial death sentences carried out within days of the act that there would be a whole lot less of them.   If they knew they were going to be executed within days of there act of violence that they wouldn't be as likely to do it.   If they were planning on suicide anyways there is no deterent available.     

I don’t know of any studies or info to back up that claim. I suspect though that most of these people are not thinking about any consequences of their actions.

[Jess from VA]

We don’t seem to be near as vigilant in mitigating the gun violence issue.

So you don't call 10 thousand (existing) state and federal gun laws vigilant?

Go ahead and identify the law that stops these shootings? 

Not universal confiscation. 

[The emperor has no clothes]

We don’t seem to be near as vigilant in mitigating the gun violence issue.

So you don't call 10 thousand (existing) state and federal gun laws vigilant?

Go ahead and identify the law that stops these shootings? 

Not universal confiscation. 

This has been discussed ad naseum. I’ll pass this time 

[Savago]

I personally don't buy the theory that is 'those cursed games'. The university of Austin shooting was waaaay back in 1966, there were no video games back then.

I grew up playing video-games (NES, SNES, PSX and so on...) and neither of my friends went into a killing spree.

The majority of recent shooters were in the 18-22 years old age bracket.

I personally think that the hate spread online is more effective to turn on this murderers into mass shooting.

[Savago]

Another consideration: from 1994 to 2004 there was a ban on what was considered 'assault riffles' (yeah, I known, you can discuss the definition the whole day...).

Ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_weapons_legislation_in_the_United_States

Quote: "In January 1989 34 children and a teacher were shot in Stockton California . The gunman used a semi-automatic AK-47 rifle; five children died.[4][5][6]:10 President George H.W. Bush banned the import of semi automatic rifles in March 1989,[7] and made the ban permanent in July 1989.[8] The assault weapons ban tried to address public concern about mass shootings while limiting the impact on recreational firearms use.[9]:1–2"

During this period, the only mass shooting was Columbine. Makes you think...

Now speaking seriously, if you are thinking self-defense, you probably need a handgun (being a pistol like a Glock 19 or 17 or a S&W revolver).

If you are hunting, a lever action rifle like a Marlin 1895 (big bore) can put down bears.

For recreational shooting, is there a real need for semi-auto rifles like the ones that are favored by the terrorists that go on killing people on this mass shootings?

Maybe set a minimal age requirement (e.g. 30 years) or some other kind of behavior assurance like they used to select SR-71 pilots/crew (i.e. is the buyer married? Does it have kids?) would help to block loonies from buying such guns?

Dunno, really.

[Savago]

On the other hand, look what happened in Europe: they blocked access to guns, terrorists are just using cars and trucks to kill people.

I think is about time the FBI to treat white supremacists as potential terrorists.

[9Ball]

An AR-15 is considered by many instructors to be a great home self defense gun.  Just sayin’.

Even a shotgun is preferred over a handgun to prevent over penetration through walls or siding and potentially hitting an innocent.

Another consideration: from 1994 to 2004 there was a ban on what was considered 'assault riffles' (yeah, I known, you can discuss the definition the whole day...).

Ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_weapons_legislation_in_the_United_States

Quote: "In January 1989 34 children and a teacher were shot in Stockton California . The gunman used a semi-automatic AK-47 rifle; five children died.[4][5][6]:10 President George H.W. Bush banned the import of semi automatic rifles in March 1989,[7] and made the ban permanent in July 1989.[8] The assault weapons ban tried to address public concern about mass shootings while limiting the impact on recreational firearms use.[9]:1–2"

During this period, the only mass shooting was Columbine. Makes you think...

Now speaking seriously, if you are thinking self-defense, you probably need a handgun (being a pistol like a Glock 19 or 17 or a S&W revolver).

Edited the quoted section to remove last paragraphs.

[Jess from VA]

Our second amendment secures the right of the people to keep and bear arms, and prohibits government from infringing on that right.  The right is not for hunting but for securing individual liberty against both private crime and government tyranny.  And we are entitled to substantially the same man-portable small arms as the US military and police (or the right is meaningless).

Civilian gun ownership in the US is one of the most highly regulated areas of the law already.

The problem is not firearms, it is defective humans.  Humans, defective and otherwise, also have a significant number of rights.  Convicted felons are not allowed guns, but they use them in crime every day.  It's harder yet when these young mass shooters have no significant past record of bad behavior.

It is a serious problem, but we have seen (throughout recorded history) that laws do not prevent defective humans from doing wrong.  Not that we shouldn't have a comprehensive set of criminal laws, and we already do.    

A proper upbringing, education, and the fear of the criminal justice system does a pretty good job of limiting bad behavior in normal humans.  But not defective humans.  

There have always been too many defective humans.  And it's always been difficult to identify them and put them away (or put them down).  And as populations continue to expand (see Malthus), so does the number of defectives.  

[9Ball]

Well said Jess...too bad certain lawmakers continue to deny the defect and continue to infringe on normal behavior.

[Moonshot_1]

Difficult to reasonably discuss guns and gun violence so close to a mass shooting event. Emotions are high and irrationality and knee jerk reactions reign.

More laws and more restrictions always are the #1 response. But the fact is there already are an extraordinary amount of gun laws, Federal and State, and adding a few more words to paper will not really impact the mass shooting issue. It will, however, insure that not another mass shooting will be committed by another law abiding person.

But law abiding people aren’t the problem.

There were laws that made what happened in El Paso illegal. But yet it happened.

More laws, more restrictions may sound good and give the appearance that we are doing something, but it doesn’t do anything substantive

There have always been killings. For a myriad of reasons. Bottom line is that there are people who have been evil, are evil and will continue to be evil.

It isn’t, and will never be, the gun that is evil.  Making them illegal is making instant felons of reasonable, law abiding citizens.

We have a great culture in this country. A culture of Freedom and Liberty. But within that culture are sub-cultures that take the dark side of life and exploit it. Within those sub-cultures come the mass shooters. They are the product of the perfect storm of behavioral drugs, violent video gaming, and social media gone mad.

It’s not a damnation of those things. Each are relatively benign and in most cases even taken together are still benign.

What is the answer? What law would I suggest to push back on this?

Federal mandatory firearms training. Start at 14 years old. Everyone. Along with mandatory self-defense training. In place or addition to PE Class in High School.

We want everyone trained to shoot and kill bad guys. And gals if required.
Not trained to be victims.

[Beardo]

If they’re gonna ban something, ban the internet.  These rejects get an audience where they are emboldened and encouraged. Time to turn off the internet switch.  (Except this site, of course)

I say this somewhat facetiously...as someone who earns his living working for a phone company/ISP.

I am an avid hunter and gun owner....who doesn’t have a gun that holds more than 3 shells...except for a .22 with a banana mag...and have successfully taken most North American big game with my single shot Ruger No 1 300 WM.  I don’t see my guns as a means of self defence or to keep the government in line(I think anyone with a Cooey .22 could overthrow our govt), and few do up here, but as a tool to put food on the table, get rid of predators at the farm and occasionally have some fun. If others will sleep better with an AR with a high capacity mag...who am I to tell them anything.

[Jess from VA]

If others will sleep better with an AR with a high capacity mag...who am I to tell them anything.

Beardo, nobody I know can sleep well with only one AR and one 30rd (standard capacity) magazine.   

[Gryphon Rider]

While not the only contributing factor, one of the most obvious commonalities between mass shooters (and criminals in general) is the absence of the shooter's biological father from his home.  In the less common cases where the bio-dad is in the home, he is often abusive, subjecting his son and his son's mother to regular beatings.

A nation that wants to reduce mass shootings along with other crime needs to encourage and support paternal responsibility.  In other words, men, raise your kids and love and commit to their mother.

[Roadog]

  I have been extra nice to all of my guns this week,....and SO FAR,....they have behaved themselves and haven't gone out and shot the place up ,....SO FAR  !

[Oss]

Moonshot is onto something

I have previously said look at a place like Switzerland where you do have mandatory gun training, or Israel where you have compulsory service

When you have to learn about something and respect it you can come away with a different perspective

You also have opportunity to observe who may have a risk factor in time to avoid what we now have

I put the media and tv at the front crosshairs as to the violence as there is a glorification of killing and nothing about the horror of its aftermath   and parents, where they exist need to do a better job
of teaching HUMANITY to their kids.

Anyone remember decades ago when the tropicana orange juice lady (anita Bryant) first was upset at video games   She was right and she was sorely wronged by the media

 people texting on the phone while driving kill more people than guns (except maybe Chicago)
so lets ban cell phones

[Alpha Dog]

In a nation afficted by fads, crazes, manias, and rages, mass murder is the jackpot for nihilists - begging the question : why does this country produce so many of them.  Answer.  This is exactly what you get in a culture where anything goes and nothing matters.  Extract all meaning and purpose from being here on earth, and erase as many boundaries as you can from custom and behavior, and watch what happens, especially young men trained on video slaughter games.

excerpt from Aug 5. article by John Howard Kuntzler.  The rest can be found on his website.

[Beardo]

In a nation afficted by fads, crazes, manias, and rages, mass murder is the jackpot for nihilists - begging the question : why does this country produce so many of them.  Answer. 

It doesn’t help that people feel the need to be polarized to the far left or the far right and anyone on the other side is my enemy...The 2 shootings his weekend appear to be one from each side.

This is encouraged by the media, for example, when injecting race into a story that has nothing to do with race, creating an “us vs them” story where there shouldn’t be one.

[Valker]

In a nation afficted by fads, crazes, manias, and rages, mass murder is the jackpot for nihilists - begging the question : why does this country produce so many of them.  Answer. 

It doesn’t help that people feel the need to be polarized to the far left or the far right and anyone on the other side is my enemy...The 2 shootings his weekend appear to be one from each side.

This is encouraged by the media, for example, when injecting race into a story that has nothing to do with race, creating an “us vs them” story where there shouldn’t be one.

...and this begs the question (which most folks who need to ask it refuse to ask it) when did this division drastically rise in modern times?

[gordonv]

Did you hear today he had to apologize for his posting? Seems some where not happy about his insensitivity to the fact this was a shooting. 

I don't do this social posting, so I don't have an account, but maybe those who do should post approval (if you do) of his post.

[Jess from VA]

Obviously, his fellow liberal's emotions DO respond more to spectacle (and the party line) than data.  

[Wizzard]

While not the only contributing factor, one of the most obvious commonalities between mass shooters (and criminals in general) is the absence of the shooter's biological father from his home.  In the less common cases where the bio-dad is in the home, he is often abusive, subjecting his son and his son's mother to regular beatings.

A nation that wants to reduce mass shootings along with other crime needs to encourage and support paternal responsibility.  In other words, men, raise your kids and love and commit to their mother.

Could not agree more 

[Willow]

Did you hear today he had to apologize for his posting? Seems some where not happy about his insensitivity to the fact this was a shooting. 

I don't do this social posting, so I don't have an account, but maybe those who do should post approval (if you do) of his post.

Some folks (Many folks? Most folks?) committed to an agenda are offended by the truth.    

[G-Man]

There are millions of kids who have benefited from these drugs. No doubt. But statistically if 1% of a million kids have a bad experience with the drug, that is 10000 kids with adverse reactions. Not all will grow up to mass shooters, but 1% of those 10000 is still a hundred kids at risk.

This is what I do for a living.  I evaluate adverse events that patients have while on my company's drugs (or compounds) during clinical trials.  The numbers are staggering at times.  We are seeing the same conundrum with the opioid epidemic.  They help millions with moderate to severe pain get through the day or through recovery periods.  Problem is, the drug makes you feel really good.  So, like other drugs that make you feel good (THC, cocaine, alcohol, etc) there is a strong risk of some folks developing dependency.  So now, we're making it hard for those who need the drug and use it responsibly to get prescriptions from their doctors because doctors are afraid of being accused of over prescribing.

[G-Man]

On the other hand, look what happened in Europe: they blocked access to guns, terrorists are just using cars and trucks to kill people.

I think is about time the FBI to treat white supremacists as potential terrorists.

Why, just because a white person commits a mass murder, is he automatically assumed a White Supremacist?  Even if the white person singles out a specific group, why is that person considered a white supremacist?  He may not believe he is better, or that the white race is superior.  Maybe he was robbed by an hispanic guy and took it out on a group of hispanic guys hanging out on the corner. 

BTW, how many of the mass murderers who are.were white actually said they were white supremacists, or Klan members, or anything that comes close to that?  Just because the lame stream media is required to label everything according race, gender, and money, doesn't make it true.

[G-Man]

An AR-15 is considered by many instructors to be a great home self defense gun.  Just sayin’.

Even a shotgun is preferred over a handgun to prevent over penetration through walls or siding and potentially hitting an innocent.

Shotgun blast is perfect for home defense.

[Moonshot_1]

In a nation afficted by fads, crazes, manias, and rages, mass murder is the jackpot for nihilists - begging the question : why does this country produce so many of them.  Answer.  

It doesn’t help that people feel the need to be polarized to the far left or the far right and anyone on the other side is my enemy...The 2 shootings his weekend appear to be one from each side.

This is encouraged by the media, for example, when injecting race into a story that has nothing to do with race, creating an “us vs them” story where there shouldn’t be one.

...and this begs the question (which most folks who need to ask it refuse to ask it) when did this division drastically rise in modern times?

Kennedy/Nixon debate. First Televised Presidential debate.

This ushered in the television media into major national politics.
It could be edited, manipulated, and even totally faked without the viewer knowing.

Not only in political debates but to make political points against private corporations, like putting model rocket engines under a pickup in a documentary about pickup fires in crashes. (Dateline)


Even weathermen standing in ditch water to report on flooding. Seems benign, but it is a symptom of a corrupt media.

Now we just blatantly see it. Edit 5 seconds out of a 30 second video and Trump is Hitler.

But it started back in the Kennedy/Nixon debate.

[Savago]

Why, just because a white person commits a mass murder, is he automatically assumed a White Supremacist?

Since you asked...

Only recently, the El Paso shooter was identified as a white supremacist (he drove 700 miles to El Paso to specifically kill Hispanics). Look at who killed who at Charlotesville.

El Paso shooter: not an immigrant.

Parkland shooter: not an immigrant.

Tree of Life shooter (this one particularly makes my blood boil): not an immigrant.

Las Vegas shooter: not an immigrant.

Borderline Bar shooter: ditto.

Charleston shooter (another particularly awful one): ditto.

In my view, a white supremacist is no different than, say, someone that likes Al-qaeda or the Muslim brotherhood.

It seems that the US attorney Thomas T. Cullen got plenty of work to do: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/magazine/wp/2019/08/07/feature/the-trump-appointee-whos-putting-white-supremacists-in-jail/

[Serk]

https://theconversation.com/mass-shootings-arent-growing-more-common-and-evidence-contradicts-common-stereotypes-about-the-killers-121471