Cracked rear rim I/S: how is that possible?

[Savago]

Anyway, I'm proceeding with inspecting/cleaning the final drive/pumpkin this weekend.

I'm starting to feel a bit more optimistic about the whole ordeal.

This time, I hope that by doing the job myself, it will be done properly.

[RonW]

"I'm not a specialist, but my guess is that the spacer is gone..."

Agreed!

I see in the pic you're got 90° metal stems.

[Savago]

@Ron: about the valve metal stems, it was courtesy of 'da prez'.

[Savago]

I already got a replacement rim complete from @da prez.

Assuming the final drive/pumpkin is still in order, the missing parts would be:
1) The 3 o-rings of death (because if you don't replace them, your final drive will eat itself alive):
91302-MA6-003 - O-RING (61X2)
91356-MG9-003 - O-RING (39.5X2.4) (ARAI)
91358-MG9-003 - O-RING (50.5X3.5) (ARAI)

2) Colar/spacer:
42313-422-000 COLLAR

3) Dust seal:
91253-443-761 DUST SEAL (30X47X8) (ARAI)


I'm basing myself on the part numbers listed on:
https://www.partzilla.com/catalog/honda/motorcycle/1999/gl1500cf-a-valkyrie-interstate/rear-wheel

[Savago]

It is interesting because the part numbers listed here (http://www.valkyrieriders.com/shoptalk/Elusive%203rd%20O-Ring.htm) are different.

[Savago]

I also ordered loctite moly (LOC51048: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001HWBSJW/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1) since apparently Honda Moly is now unobtanium.

[luftkoph]

Something I learned many years ago with BMW's, Heat and cold to fit close tolerance parts, on press fit wheel bearings like on our Valk's every time that bearing comes out and is replaced it tears and rips minute bits of aluminum from the wheel, not a lot you can do about bearing removal, but on installation having the bearings in the freezer overnight and heating the wheel around the bearing up to 200-250 degrees makes them go in with a lot stress on both parts.

[Chrisj CMA]

Something I learned many years ago with BMW's, Heat and cold to fit close tolerance parts, on press fit wheel bearings like on our Valk's every time that bearing comes out and is replaced it tears and rips minute bits of aluminum from the wheel, not a lot you can do about bearing removal, but on installation having the bearings in the freezer overnight and heating the wheel around the bearing up to 200-250 degrees makes them go in with a lot stress on both parts.

I do this too. And on removal. I douse the bearing with penetrating oil and heat the hub. The aluminum will expand more than the steel so it still makes it more gooder.

[Savago]

A series of updates on this one.

I have being distracted thanks to the Tourer (http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,125764.0.html), but I decided to proceed with the 'fix the I/S' operation.

[Savago]

I had a new rim supplied to me thanks to 'da prez' (thanks man!).

I proceeded with installing a new rotor on it, using weak loctite just to be sure it won't get loose.

The bolts came from the damaged rim, they still looked fine and I was in a hurry to finish the job (may order new ones from partzilla one day).

[Savago]

I had Evolution Motorcycles (probably the only guys in the whole SF Bay Area that will not somehow botch the job and still work on vintage bikes) mount the tire in the wheel, also replacing everything on it:
a) valve stem.
b) rubber dampers.
c) o-ring.
d) bearings.

[Savago]

I was really concerned that the final drive splines would be damaged, but this time I guess my I/S dodged the bullet.

They look still in good shape, which allowed me to proceed with the next steps.

Old o-ring out:


New o-ring in:

[Savago]

So not wanting to have another destroyed final drive, I went with the excellent (supposedly...) Loctite moly grease and applied a generous amount to the splines.

Hey, can't have too much money/guns/women or moly!

[Savago]

The flange was cleaned squeak clean, got a new o-ring and received the extra moly treatment:

[Savago]

New spacer ready to go:

[Chrisj CMA]

That's a tad excessive on the moly on the flange but the excess will just be pushed off. I hope you put some waterproof grease in the final drive (female splines)

[Savago]

I got the 4 bolts that mount the pumpkin to the lower fork loose as instructed by the 'Rear end service' ppt and after using the lift to help me mount the wheel/flange into the final drive splines, I proceeded with the recommended torquing sequence (caliper bolt -> axle -> 4 final drive bolts).

[Chrisj CMA]

I got the 4 bolts that mount the pumpkin to the lower fork loose as instructed by the 'Rear end service' ppt and after using the lift to help me mount the wheel/flange into the final drive splines, I proceeded with the recommended torquing sequence (caliper bolt -> axle -> 4 final drive bolts).

But you removed that little red Jack before torquing the axle, right?

[Savago]

Next I proceeded with changing the clutch fluid (I think the last time it was changed was way back in 2017?).

The thing was looking disgusting!






Old fluid out, new fluid flowing in:

[Savago]

And the bike was functional again, back in the road as it should be!

[Chrisj CMA]

I got the 4 bolts that mount the pumpkin to the lower fork loose as instructed by the 'Rear end service' ppt and after using the lift to help me mount the wheel/flange into the final drive splines, I proceeded with the recommended torquing sequence (caliper bolt -> axle -> 4 final drive bolts).

But you removed that little red Jack before torquing the axle, right?

If you torqued the axel nut with that red Jack supporting the wheel you DO NOT have a properly aligned final drive.

[Savago]

But you removed that little red Jack before torquing the axle, right?

Chris: I put grease in there, as also used anti-seize to protect the axle proper.

I torqued the axle *with* the red jack holding the wheel above the pipes.

Is that wrong?

[Chrisj CMA]

But you removed that little red Jack before torquing the axle, right?

Chris: I put grease in there, as also used anti-seize to protect the axle proper.

I torqued the axle *with* the red jack holding the wheel above the pipes.

Is that wrong?

Good on the grease. Wrong on the Jack holding the wheel. I would loosen everything up, including obviously the four final drive nuts. Remove the shocks and use a cargo strap from the left lower shock mount to the top of the frame somewhere so the wheel is in the air NOT touching anything. If the final drive is mis aligned your  splines will have a short life.

[Chrisj CMA]

Call me if you want. 850 865-5378

[Savago]

Good on the grease. Wrong on the Jack holding the wheel. I would loosen everything up, including obviously the four final drive nuts. Remove the shocks and use a cargo strap from the left lower shock mount to the top of the frame somewhere so the wheel is in the air NOT touching anything. If the final drive is mis aligned your  splines will have a short life.

Thanks for the quick chat, first thing early in the morning tomorrow I will proceed with ensuring that the FD is aligned.

[RonW]

Remove the shocks and use a cargo strap from the left lower shock mount to the top of the frame somewhere so the wheel is in the air NOT touching anything.

Is it better to strap the swingarm (B) instead of the pumpkin (A)? I forget.

[Chrisj CMA]

Remove the shocks and use a cargo strap from the left lower shock mount to the top of the frame somewhere so the wheel is in the air NOT touching anything.

Is it better to strap the swingarm (B) instead of the pumpkin (A)? I forget.

Use the LEFT LOWER SHOCK MOUNT. That would be the same as strapping the swingarm. That picture is 100% how NOT to do it!

[RonW]

Use the LEFT LOWER SHOCK MOUNT.

That picture is 100% how NOT to do it!


Whoops. Now I remember what I forgot.

[Chrisj CMA]

Good on the grease. Wrong on the Jack holding the wheel. I would loosen everything up, including obviously the four final drive nuts. Remove the shocks and use a cargo strap from the left lower shock mount to the top of the frame somewhere so the wheel is in the air NOT touching anything. If the final drive is mis aligned your  splines will have a short life.

Thanks for the quick chat, first thing early in the morning tomorrow I will proceed with ensuring that the FD is aligned.

Good job. Knowing WHY we do what we do is so much better than memorizing steps. Assuring nothing impedes the alignment of the wheel to final drive is the primary concern. Now you can ride it like you stole it!!

[RonW]

I looked at my records and although I did strap the Right swingarm, the same strap went around to the Left swingarm saddleback style.
The straps were used to lift the axle above the mufflers. Don't remember if the straps were the same way when I torqued the *4 bolts.*





Anyways, the moral of the story is if you strap the swingarm to align the *4-bolts,* only strap the Left swingarm. Strapping either the Right swingarm (B) or the pumpkin (A) will impede the rear wheel's alignment to the drive shaft. As already mentioned, nothing should be under the rear wheel. The strap sets the elevation of the pumpkin and the rear wheel gets raised to this elevation to insert the axle.




You could use a strut in place of straps. I believe the mufflers are off the bike for this strut's 10-in center-to-center spacing. Chrisj CMA, please confirm.




I can't find the photo, but a forum member used a turnbuckle on the Left swingarm.

[da prez]

 Having time to relook , I have seen similar , minus the cracked rim. If a pressure washer is used , they can blow seals out.  I only use a pressure washer on total rebuilds or burn bikes. They do more damage than good.

                                    da prez

[Chrisj CMA]

Using a rope tied around the right side swingarm would work fine but be a pain compared to just using the lower shock bolt on the left side. Just don't hook to the final drive. Do whatever works for you. It's your bike. I just tried to share the why of what we do. You keep focusing on the what (certain steps). Remember why you are doing something and it will make more sense. The goal is a free hanging wheel and drive so a pure alignment is achieved. It's obvious when you focus on that goal that strapping to the final drive shock mount will hurt your chance to get a good alignment.

[Savago]

For future reference as it may be helpful to other forum members, this is how I strapped the left side of the swing arm:

[Jess from VA]

I understand the reason... but this thread is beginning to read like motorcycle bondage fetish.   

[Chrisj CMA]

I understand the reason... but this thread is beginning to read like motorcycle bondage fetish.   

Jess. We got straps but no whips or handcuffs yet 

[Jess from VA]

I understand the reason... but this thread is beginning to read like motorcycle bondage fetish.   

Jess. We got straps but no whips or handcuffs yet 

Good.  Because that would just be wrong.   

[RonW]

Very good idea!