Stiff, Firm ride?

[pocket aces]

I had my front forks completely rebuilt and installed Progressive springs. It still rides very stiff and to firm. Looking to soften the ride. Would less oil or a different weight of oil help me?

[98valk]

std or I/S? I/S forks have bad stiff/jarring valving, like the '97-'98 shocks bad valving.

what fluid was used?, since they are all different

https://www.peterverdone.com/suspension-fluids/

[Jess from VA]

I paid that job done on my IS with spec fluid and spec volumes (and Progressives same as you).

And it was too stiff for me too... for about 20K miles; then it loosened up to reasonable.

[Joe333x]

I had my front forks completely rebuilt and installed Progressive springs. It still rides very stiff and to firm. Looking to soften the ride. Would less oil or a different weight of oil help me?

I did the same as you, rebuilt with progressive springs and did the amount the service manual said to and it was was to hard of a ride, I removed I think an ounce from each tube and it softened up.

[Challenger]

I had progressive springs installed on my I/S because of the severe front end dive under hard braking. The cycle shop that rebuilt the forks for me said they use a lighter oil than stock because of the complaints of stiff ride. Very happy with the ride, handling and braking since.

[pocket aces]

It is a standard. I had a well known trusted Valkyrie mechanic do the work for me. I'll ask him about amount and type of fluid he used.

[Joe333x]

It is a standard. I had a well known trusted Valkyrie mechanic do the work for me. I'll ask him about amount and type of fluid he used.

I’d ask him to take a little fluid out of each tube, it’s relatively easy to do, I just took each tube off and dumped a little out of each one and it made a difference.

[WintrSol]

A question no one else has asked: what tire pressures are you using?

[pocket aces]

front tire about 38 psi.

[hubcapsc]

I had my front forks completely rebuilt and installed Progressive springs. It still rides very stiff and to firm. Looking to soften the ride. Would less oil or a different weight of oil help me?

I've rebuilt numerous Valkyrie forks, they're terrific. Almost everyone I talk to has
"a trick" or some other reason not to do it as the manual says. Almost nobody
burps the cartridge...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tikm2dBQ56I

-Mike

[Joe333x]

I had my front forks completely rebuilt and installed Progressive springs. It still rides very stiff and to firm. Looking to soften the ride. Would less oil or a different weight of oil help me?

I've rebuilt numerous Valkyrie forks, they're terrific. Almost everyone I talk to has
"a trick" or some other reason not to do it as the manual says. Almost nobody
burps the cartridge...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tikm2dBQ56I

-Mike

I think how you feel about the forks rebuilt by the manual using progressive springs is relative to the roads you ride on. The roads around me are awful with lots of bumps, if you have nice roads I can see it not being a problem but when I first rebuilt mine I hit a bump that threw my phone out of the RAM mount I have, thankfully it was attached with a charger cable. I haven’t had the problem since, and I also changed the rear to YSS shocks from progressive and I have a much smoother ride.

[WintrSol]

front tire about 38 psi.

That's rather hard. Honda wants 33 psi in front for OEM tires; some tires handle better with 2 or 3 psi more, but that's a lot more.

[h13man]

I used Progressives on the VT1100C Spirit. Loved the instant quality of ride especially two up. 33,000 mi. later they started getting softer but I became a Valk person and sold it.
On the Valk I went with a set of Racetech #80 (smallest rate at the time) I bought from a fellow member here. They were a bit firm at 1st. as the reason I got them from the member. Broke in over the next 500 mi. or so. Been 40,000 mi. and still the same. I don't like the feel of a #800 bike doing a "dive" feeling per OEM springs. The Progressives on the VT had a tad softness but on a #625 lb. bike it felt very good. The RT's are a single wound coil in comparison to Progressives/OEM. I run 36 psi./41 psi.

https://racetech.com/product-search/#20

[Avanti]

I had my front forks completely rebuilt and installed Progressive springs. It still rides very stiff and to firm. Looking to soften the ride. Would less oil or a different weight of oil help me?

I've rebuilt numerous Valkyrie forks, they're terrific. Almost everyone I talk to has
"a trick" or some other reason not to do it as the manual says. Almost nobody
burps the cartridge...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tikm2dBQ56I

-Mike

If I remember correctly you had your own Valkyrie front forks rebuilt by Traxxion at some point. How much better is the Traxxion than the others you have rebuilt?

[hubcapsc]

>>AVANTI:
>>If I remember correctly you had your own Valkyrie front forks rebuilt by Traxxion at
>>some point. How much better is the Traxxion than the others you have rebuilt?

That was my 1800 Valkyrie... I didn't know exactly what to think at first. It was
really obvious that it wasn't so "sagged out" sitting there. Not long after, though,
me and Smokin' Joe and Punisher and rnfwp took off on the backroads to
Inzane in Billings. After a couple of days I realized the pig trails I'd picked
through Mississippi and stuff were jarring their teeth out, but I hadn't been
suffering. The Traxxion forks each have their machined cartridges in them
instead of just one kind of stamped out cartridge on one side. They're
pretty dang nice.

Anywho... not long ago I bought a set of perfect looking 1500 forks for $75!
They're at Traxxion right now. When they send them back, they'll be sending
along a set of YSS rear shocks to replace my very old Progressive 440s...

I put Progressive springs in  my 1500 forks  and have refurbished
them via the "measure from the top" method in the manual
twice over the years. I really like them compared to how they were when I
got the bike. I'll have some impressions to share here after I've had
the Traxxion forks a while and have ridden it some...

I know I don't want squishy suspension that wallows through the turns,
maybe the "stiff firm ride" others don't like is what I'm after... ?

-Mike

[Avanti]

>>AVANTI:
>>If I remember correctly you had your own Valkyrie front forks rebuilt by Traxxion at
>>some point. How much better is the Traxxion than the others you have rebuilt?

That was my 1800 Valkyrie... I didn't know exactly what to think at first. It was
really obvious that it wasn't so "sagged out" sitting there. Not long after, though,
me and Smokin' Joe and Punisher and rnfwp took off on the backroads to
Inzane in Billings. After a couple of days I realized the pig trails I'd picked
through Mississippi and stuff were jarring their teeth out, but I hadn't been
suffering. The Traxxion forks each have their machined cartridges in them
instead of just one kind of stamped out cartridge on one side. They're
pretty dang nice.

Anywho... not long ago I bought a set of perfect looking 1500 forks for $75!
They're at Traxxion right now. When they send them back, they'll be sending
along a set of YSS rear shocks to replace my very old Progressive 440s...

I put Progressive springs in  my 1500 forks  and have refurbished
them via the "measure from the top" method in the manual
twice over the years. I really like them compared to how they were when I
got the bike. I'll have some impressions to share here after I've had
the Traxxion forks a while and have ridden it some...

I know I don't want squishy suspension that wallows through the turns,
maybe the "stiff firm ride" others don't like is what I'm after... ?

-Mike

Thank you,

I look forward to hearing about your new suspension on your 1500.

[Gondul]

That's rather hard. Honda wants 33 psi in front for OEM tires; some tires handle better with 2 or 3 psi more, but that's a lot more.

That psi was for the crap-tastic OEM Dumb-flops that came on the bike.
And if you look through those threads, that was a horrible choice to make.

IMNSO you should follow the tire manufacturer recommendations for psi...

I run 40/42 on my Avons (which is what they recommend) and it is perfect...

[Gondul]

.... and I also changed the rear to YSS shocks from progressive and I have a much smoother ride.

I really enjoy the YSS shocks I put on mine... very pleased with the suggestions from Traxxion.

[WintrSol]

That's rather hard. Honda wants 33 psi in front for OEM tires; some tires handle better with 2 or 3 psi more, but that's a lot more.

That psi was for the crap-tastic OEM Dumb-flops that came on the bike.
And if you look through those threads, that was a horrible choice to make.

IMNSO you should follow the tire manufacturer recommendations for psi...

I run 40/42 on my Avons (which is what they recommend) and it is perfect...

Overall, tire makers no longer recommend a pressure other than what it says on the bike placard. Unless they've started again since I last searched for other recommended pressures. Probably on advice of lawyers.

Two or three above, I find, is best overall for any of the tires I've used. While five or more psi above that value makes a bike turn in more quickly, it also makes for a harsher ride and reduces grip, both for cornering and braking. Everything is a trade, so you do you, but you came here complaining about a harsh ride, and tire pressure is part of that.

[hubcapsc]

.... and I also changed the rear to YSS shocks from progressive and I have a much smoother ride.

I really enjoy the YSS shocks I put on mine... very pleased with the suggestions from Traxxion.

I guess they send along bushings that are correct for a Valkyrie? I'm glad to hear other VRCC
folks that have them and like them  ...

-Mike

[Joe333x]

That's rather hard. Honda wants 33 psi in front for OEM tires; some tires handle better with 2 or 3 psi more, but that's a lot more.

That psi was for the crap-tastic OEM Dumb-flops that came on the bike.
And if you look through those threads, that was a horrible choice to make.

IMNSO you should follow the tire manufacturer recommendations for psi...

I run 40/42 on my Avons (which is what they recommend) and it is perfect...

By recommend do you mean the Max PSI? I have only ever seen max psi listed on a tire.

[WintrSol]

By recommend do you mean the Max PSI? I have only ever seen max psi listed on a tire.
[/quote]+1. Max psi on the tire is only if you apply the max load on the tire, not for general use. Running that hard makes for a much smaller contact patch at the nominal load, which is why grip is reduced with it. Softer compound tires can tolerate higher pressures, but don't need them.

[hubcapsc]

I received a heavy box from Traxxion a couple of days ago  ...

They had a little trouble with bushing size and Valkyrie fitment with
the first couple of YSS shocks they sold, but they come perfect now.

YSS shocks can have black or red springs. Dan told me he had a red set
on hand and I could get a $150 discount if I'd take them. I sent him this
picture and said "send 'em on!" ... he showed the picture around in the
shop and they all got a laugh...



-Mike

[Peteg]

I assume you reused the standard caps when you install progressive springs, but if any of the new hard components displace more volume than the old ones the level will be a little high thus generating higher pressure on the seals and a harsher ride. To answer the original question either less oil or lighter oil will soften the ride.

I'm really nervous about fork oil level. When I got my VTX it had good oil and seals but the level was low on one side and really low on the other. Obviously the PO serviced it and oil level was measured but not burped. I just serviced my valk and didn't burp the forks. I measure the oil level when I take the fork off the bike then drain the fork oil overnight and measure the volume out and check both against the spec then measure the volume back in and don't burp.

In your current situation I would just jack the bike up and remove the caps. If you put a scissor lift below the front wheel you can jack the shocks all the way to stop and make an attemp at measuring although you'll need to account for fork slope. I measure front and back and split the difference. The main thing to do is measure what you take out - you may want to put back in after break in. You should be able to use a cattle hypodermic from tractor supply with a 5/32" vacuum whip. Probably less than $10 total. All very easy compared to full service.

   

[Peteg]

I assume you reused the standard caps when you install progressive springs, but if any of the new hard components displace more volume than the old ones the level will be a little high thus generating higher pressure on the seals and a harsher ride. To answer the original question either less oil or lighter oil will soften the ride.

I'm really nervous about fork oil level. When I got my VTX it had good oil and seals but the level was low on one side and really low on the other. Obviously the PO serviced it and oil level was measured but not burped. I just serviced my valk and didn't burp the forks. I measure the oil level when I take the fork off the bike then drain the fork oil overnight and measure the volume out and check both against the spec then measure the volume back in and don't burp.

In your current situation I would just jack the bike up and remove the caps. If you put a scissor lift below the front wheel you can jack the shocks all the way to stop and make an attemp at measuring although you'll need to account for fork slope. I measure front and back and split the difference. The main thing to do is measure what you take out - you may want to put back in after break in. You should be able to use a cattle hypodermic from tractor supply with a 5/32" vacuum whip. Probably less than $10 total. All very easy compared to full service.

   

My claim above that too much oil may significantly increase fully compressed seal pressure is incorrect. Sorry wrong bike. This is a VTX / traditional fork tube thing where there is only like 1" of air in the top of the tube at full compression. Then if your a 1/2" high you doubled the full compression seal pressure, which is still not unreasonable for a hydraulic seal. On a valkyrie fork seal pressure increase for high level is likely negligable.

[Peteg]

Sorry for my last two terrible posts. I actually was only trying to help. I don't see anyway we can measure oil level on these shocks with the forks on the bike. I was trying to help without wasting a lot of time and likely just made things worse.

[h13man]

A thought I had after done my spring change, one could physically weigh the springs then determine difference in % and apply to fluid volume. I always use the amount OEM specify as honestly I don't think theres that much difference in springs but the spacer material (PVC thicker walled) used can contribute to more displacement.

[clanky]

For what it's worth.  I replaced my fork seals and bushings for the second time recently following the manual. I did NOT change springs and used Honda fork oil.  I did remove the shocks from the bike. I did accurately measure the oil volume prior to refilling. Ride quality stayed the same as before but the leak was gone.  Bike had 210K miles on it at the time. It now has 230K on it and rides just fine.

[Knapdog]

On my '98 Tourer I found the ride quite harsh but I had the front forks refurbished at the dealership and managed to find a pair of used Interstate rear shocks which I have on Setting 2.
I also changed the seat to the oem one that was put on in 2000 I think.
I'm more than happy with this set up and it's a huge improvement from when I first had it five years ago.

[98valk]

On my '98 Tourer I found the ride quite harsh but I had the front forks refurbished at the dealership and managed to find a pair of used Interstate rear shocks which I have on Setting 2.
I also changed the seat to the oem one that was put on in 2000 I think.
I'm more than happy with this set up ad it's a huge importance from when I first had it five years ago.

yep, '97-'98 shocks had bad valving resulting in a harsh/jarring ride. Honda fixed that for all of the Valkyrie shocks after '98.

[rug_burn]

    I did my forks not too long ago, used 5w oil, and stock springs, and it gives a good, fairly soft ride. 
    When filling the emptied forks (still on the bike), I poured the oil on that center rod, filling the center cartridge first, and let the rest of the oil just fill the rest of the shock as much as it would.   I think this accomplishes what the burping thing is supposed to do.   The forks were completely drained to start with, and I used the quantities specified in the manual for each fork. 
    I did this job once before, and my results were not as good as this time whei I thought it through a little better.     My bike's a '97.