am I hydrolocked?? No just not observant of the pingel position

[Oss]

bike cranks smell gas  does not start

I was told by Dennis and LD to not touch that starter until I have the pods off and plugs out then just tap once the starter while staying out of the way of spraying gas

Sound right so far?

[Willow]

If the bike cranks you are not hydro-locked.  Perhaps we should carefully review your meaning of cranks.

[Jims99]

You also may want to consider having a fire extinguisher close by if there is excessive fuel. Doesn't sound like it's locked if it's turning over, sounds like stuck floats or bad fuel line or o-ring. Do you see any gas leaking? Has it been sitting awhile?

[Hook#3287]

Evan, did you smell gas before trying to start or after?

Like stated, if she turns over, she's not locked.

If she's turning over but not firing, check your batteries charge.

[Hook#3287]

Before I did anything, I would inspect the petcock, fuel lines and carbs for any exterior leaks.

Not finding any, I'd consider the tank cap gasket and inspect the vent line.

If the tank is full, it could be just vapor that needed to escape from expansion if you moved the bike into a warmer area.

[Oss]

I could hear the sound of the starter however I do not hear or feel the catch of fuel reaching plugs and firing

I had put the bike on charger and it indicated full charge

Plan is to wheel bike into driveway, take off pods and pull plugs
then tap 1 time the starter and see what if anything sprays

Yes I have a big-ass fire extinguisher handy

I wonder if Dennis turned off the petcock when he was here? Had not ridden since they left before IZ   That would be like what RJ did when I was at his place years ago and when BIG BF did that just before i left his house for GOTF in 2013 and my bike died a mile down the road.

[WintrSol]

A charger showing full charge does not mean the battery has the power to fire the engine. After disconnecting the charger, test the battery Voltage, and again 1/2 hour later. Then, when you press the starter button, take another Voltage reading.
Or, take the battery to an auto parts store to be tested.

[Oss]

Dennis !  you got me good, turning off the pingel

Turned it on started right up   I never turn that thing off

Well I am in good company I suppose    

[Hook#3287]

Evan, my understanding is a pingle SHOULD be turned off when not riding.

With a open fuel line, your 1/3 the way to a hydro-lock.

[Chrisj CMA]

Evan. If you don't have an electric fuel cut off. START TURNING OFF THE PINGEL when you stop

[Oss]

I have had an electric dan-marc, actually for over a decade but of course no capability to actually install the thing

Feel free to come on up in that roadster and connect it anytime 

Took the Valkyrie to work on Thursday   23 miles or so each way
Parked in the supermarket lot next to my office (manager is a client so I get to park there whether bike or car)

She rode great, me, not as great but hey it has been a while and riding a 3 lane with nutso drivers requires full attention and reflexes  At least no trucks allowed on parkways in ny Hardly needed my air horn at all

[Dirty Dave]

I hydro-locked once.

Smelled gas in the garage. Pulled the plugs and painted the walls with gas. Oops.

Installed the Pingel and never looked back.
I only turn it off when garaged/stopped at the end of the day.

[WintrSol]

The OEM valve has two basic paths to leak into the carbs/cylinder: the vacuum line and, if the valve is not fully shut off, through the float valves in the carbs. The Pingel only leaves the float valves. Granted, I presume that most leaks went through the vacuum line, but I would still never leave the other path open. Just my opinion.

I had a float valve stick on my old CB450, and filled the crankcase with fuel; on the way to work, it sprayed all over the rear tire before I realized it. The valve is off whenever the engine is not running, now.

[Pluggy]

Hello Mr. WintrSol,

Having a redundant vacuum valve behind the manual valve is a good concept.  With the OEM valve turned to OFF, should the vacuum side fail, the amount of fuel flowing down the vacuum tube would be tiny.  Certainly not enough to spray all over a garage. 

Of course, we lose that redundancy if the rider fails to switch the valve to OFF. 

[WintrSol]

As I understand the structure of the OEM valve, if the rubber in the vacuum valve fails, fuel can directly flow into the vacuum tube, and then directly into the cylinder, bypassing the carb.

Rather than risking a stuck float valve with a fuel valve open, some install a solenoid-controlled valve in the fuel line, so a valve stuck on doesn't matter; that valve is switched with the key. You have to use the larger size one, or you may lose power at high demand from the engine. I have one that was installed with the belly tank, and the OEM valve is modified to delete the vacuum function.

[Pluggy]

As I understand the structure of the OEM valve, if the rubber in the vacuum valve fails, fuel can directly flow into the vacuum tube, and then directly into the cylinder, bypassing the carb.

The manual half of the OEM is a 3-way ball valve.  We can select ON, OFF or RES.  The OFF position is very effective.  The vacuum side contains less than a teaspoon of fuel. If the rubber diaphragm in the vacuum side leaks and the selector is OFF, this small amount may go out the fuel line, the vacuum line or the vent hole. That tiny amount may also stay in the valve.  This volume is likely too small to damage anything.

How does gas spraying from all six cylinders happen?  If the vacuum diaphragm leaks with the selector ON, fuel will flow straight through the valve, and maybe past the float needles.  A manual-only valve left ON will do the same.

So, it is probably OK to park with the OEM valve ON.  It is certainly better to park with the OEM valve OFF.

[WintrSol]

Yes, to get fuel in all six, the vacuum-controlled valve would have to fail with the selector in ON or RES, and the float valves would all have to leak. That possible failure is why I would never advise someone to leave the valve in either open position. With the selector in OFF, all the fuel leaking from the vacuum side goes directly to the one cylinder (I haven't found a detailed diagram of the fuel valve, so can't confirm that amount is limited). Same goes for the Pingel or my modified OEM valve, even though the fuel pump should block fuel, the PO also installed the electronic fuel valve - but I have no way of knowing if it was already there when the belly tank was installed.

[WintrSol]

After reviewing a rebuild video, I see that the fuel through the diaphragm is indeed limited, unless the O-ring that seals the ball in the OFF position also leaks; then the supply is whatever is in the tank. The video was made to show this side because the petcock continued to leak after he installed the rebuild kit on the vacuum side, so he needed to replace that O-ring. He had to drill it open, BTW.

[Pluggy]

After reviewing a rebuild video, I see that the fuel through the diaphragm is indeed limited, unless the O-ring that seals the ball in the OFF position also leaks; then the supply is whatever is in the tank. The video was made to show this side because the petcock continued to leak after he installed the rebuild kit on the vacuum side, so he needed to replace that O-ring. He had to drill it open, BTW.

Exactly. It is easy to check a valve. When conditions permit, switch off the valve and the bike should start fuel starving in a mile and a half at highway speed. Or.... After buying gas last week, I forgot to turn the valve on.  The bike quit in my driveway, one mile from the gas station.  It works!

[Willow]

There seems to be a lot of misunderstanding regarding the OEM petcock.  The vacuum line doesn't experience fuel unless there is a tear in the diaphragm.  If there is a tear in the diaphragm the petcock will stop delivering fuel to the carbs and the engine will not run.

The on/off/reserve switch is purely mechanical.  I have never heard unrelievedly of that switch failing in the off position.   

[WintrSol]

It's all a question of degree. A small crack in the diaphragm may allow it to continue delivering fuel, but still slowly leak. The on/off/reserve is sealed with O-rings. Given how old these are, failures can happen.

If it doesn't happen, why are there reports of hydrolock, unless you're saying all of them are due to float valve failures with the petcock in on/reserve?

Wonder what are the odds that all six floats fail at the same time?

[Willow]

... unless you're saying all of them are due to float valve failures with the petcock in on/reserve?

Wonder what are the odds that all six floats fail at the same time?

I am saying that.  It takes three subsequent failures to bring on hydrolock - petcock failure in the on or reserve setting; float failure in a carb; and the piston associated with the failing float in the receiving position.

As to the odds in the trailing question, it can't happen.  Spraying from multiple cylinders only occurs when one continues to crank the starter resulting in fuel being delivered into all the cylinders.

[WintrSol]

Or, if it's #6, a slowly leaking diaphragm and O-ring in the petcock, and enough time to let that cylinder fill.

[Hook#3287]

I hydro-locked once.

Smelled gas in the garage. Pulled the plugs and painted the walls with gas. Oops.

Installed the Pingel and never looked back.
I only turn it off when garaged/stopped at the end of the day.

Unfortunately, my only hydro-lock happened while I was having lunch.

Rode to the restaurant, had lunch, came out and locked.

It only took about an hour.

I was lucky enough to not cause damage and when I pulled the plugs and hit the starter, my buddy was in the rather long range of gas flow. I didn't expect it to go that far.

He was somewhat upset.

[Chrisj CMA]

There seems to be a lot of misunderstanding regarding the OEM petcock.  The vacuum line doesn't experience fuel unless there is a tear in the diaphragm.  If there is a tear in the diaphragm the petcock will stop delivering fuel to the carbs and the engine will not run.

The on/off/reserve switch is purely mechanical.  I have never heard unrelievedly of that switch failing in the off position.   

My original OE valve had a failure in the on, off, reserve side. While it never technically failed in the off position. Meaning flowing fuel while off. The failure was that it had become very hard to tell when it was actually in the off position. As I recall I had forgotten to turn the valve to on for a ride and only discovered upon return that I  had ridden many miles with the switch "looking" like it was in the off position. I could no longer easily feel the ball snap into its detent. I had previously repaired the vacuum side with a cover set, but when the switch side wore out I was done with that piece of equipment.

That's when I changed to a Pingel