New generation MagnaCharger supercharger issues.

[fstsix]

Can you guys...or someone ask Bill @ Magnacharger to give the the specs if the Main jet has been modified or drilled...the largest Jet offered for that carb is a 175, but you don't know if has been drilled unless you have a stock jet to compare it too, mine HAD to be drilled to 245 but that is with Viking pipes all setups will be different, but if it has a 175 and it is NOT drilled...mine would not full throttle correctly and was LEAN....be happy you don't have a fuel pump with this kit it took me almost a year to figure out it was flooding my idle circuit, 1 lb too much pressure was a nightmare, Check that Main before you start WOT or you will start breaking parts.

[dreamaker]

First I am still using the stock with vacuum petcock. I got to get out and get those O-rings.  Question what is WOT mean.  Also I watch my boost, I ordered a vac/boost gauge.
But as of now I have a LED bulb to a separate pressure switch set at 1 1/2 to 2lbs. When I jump on it I am looking in front and for cops so a red LED works better then trying to focus on a gauge.
OK !!  I checked  the oil ans smelled it for gas but no it smells like oil.  Like I said if the plugs wee sooty I would understand, but they look like the pics. I'm in limbo.

[fstsix]

First I am still using the stock with vacuum petcock. I got to get out and get those O-rings.  Question what is WOT mean.  Also I watch my boost, I ordered a vac/boost gauge.
But as of now I have a LED bulb to a separate pressure switch set at 1 1/2 to 2lbs. When I jump on it I am looking in front and for cops so a red LED works better then trying to focus on a gauge.
OK !!  I checked  the oil ans smelled it for gas but no it smells like oil.  Like I said if the plugs wee sooty I would understand, but they look like the pics. I'm in limbo.

Dan you are playing with fire with that vacuum set up, The vacuum off that manifold is not the same as the stock port coming from the carbs, put a pump on that petcock and see if it has ruptured, you can go to any auto parts store and get a O ring to fit that petcock, Greg, WOT (Wide-Open-Throttle) would you kindly get rid of that Friggin stock POS vacuum POS peice of $hit

[dreamaker]

Based on your message I think I may have explained something wrong.  My vacuum line to the petcock comes from the back of the Mikuni vacuum port.

Off the back of the manifold I have two Hobbs pressure switches. I have one for the Dyna ignition wire, the other switch is for my LED to let me know when I am making boost. The reason I didn't tie the LED to the pressure switch for the Dyna is I didn't know what current was used in the  Dyna ignition wire. Am I making sense?  Also I haven't gone WOT yet, I want to get my ducks in a row first.

[Murdoc]

I've been writing to Bill at Magna and he says the 175 sent with the kit is drilled to 210.  This corresponds to what I am seeing when I compared the mains that I picked up.  I went to the Harley store and picked up a 180, 195 and 200 main and a #47(.078) bit would go through the 175 that came as well as the 200, and the fit was a little loose in the 175.

I'm still stuck on not making any pressure or that I'm losing it, so I'm going to try to figure out if I have a vacuum leak or some other problem first before I make any more changes to the carb.  Gonna try some WD40 or starter fluid around all the intakes and the gasket between the blower and manifold.

[Jeff K]

Based on your message I think I may have explained something wrong.  My vacuum line to the petcock comes from the back of the Mikuni vacuum port.

Off the back of the manifold I have two Hobbs pressure switches. I have one for the Dyna ignition wire, the other switch is for my LED to let me know when I am making boost. The reason I didn't tie the LED to the pressure switch for the Dyna is I didn't know what current was used in the  Dyna ignition wire. Am I making sense?  Also I haven't gone WOT yet, I want to get my ducks in a row first.

The wire on the dyna is ground, I put a small blue led in my bar clamp to light when I'm in boost, I hooked it into the hobbs switch for the dyna.

[Jeff K]

I've been writing to Bill at Magna and he says the 175 sent with the kit is drilled to 210.  This corresponds to what I am seeing when I compared the mains that I picked up.  I went to the Harley store and picked up a 180, 195 and 200 main and a #47(.078) bit would go through the 175 that came as well as the 200, and the fit was a little loose in the 175.

I'm still stuck on not making any pressure or that I'm losing it, so I'm going to try to figure out if I have a vacuum leak or some other problem first before I make any more changes to the carb.  Gonna try some WD40 or starter fluid around all the intakes and the gasket between the blower and manifold.

How tight is your belt? It has to be "tighter than Harry's hat band"
Tight Tight. If you put a boost gauge on it you can see the boost jump up and go away when the belt looses traction, but normally you can hear it happen too. The sucking sound dies out. And the belt may squeal.

[dreamaker]

Based on your message I think I may have explained something wrong.  My vacuum line to the petcock comes from the back of the Mikuni vacuum port.

Off the back of the manifold I have two Hobbs pressure switches. I have one for the Dyna ignition wire, the other switch is for my LED to let me know when I am making boost. The reason I didn't tie the LED to the pressure switch for the Dyna is I didn't know what current was used in the  Dyna ignition wire. Am I making sense?  Also I haven't gone WOT yet, I want to get my ducks in a row first.

The wire on the dyna is ground, I put a small blue led in my bar clamp to light when I'm in boost, I hooked it into the hobbs switch for the dyna.

I hooked my LED to a separate Hobbs switch. I didn't know much about the wire that comes out of the Dyna. I was concerned if I hook the LED to the same terminal as the Dyna, when I had no boost the LED might seek a ground inside the Dyna. Didn't know if I could damage the Dyna.  I thought about maybe using a diode for a gate but did the switch instead. Got my boost gauge yesterday but don't know where to put the gauge if I use it.

[Imohtep]

Does anyone have any pictures of Mikuni installation to supercharger (gen 2 mode)?

Just rip off the j-tube and thinking what to do next

Allso needing instruction for hole set up (i know the basics, like freeze plug one hole,  but like to know how Bill does that mode).
Maby thinking to do some things otherwise...

I have Mikuni HSR 45...

[dreamaker]

You can go to my pics and see if there is something useful for you in there. There is 58 of them.



http://s625.photobucket.com/albums/tt332/dreamaker99/SuperCharger%20Setup/

[Imohtep]

You can go to my pics and see if there is something useful for you in there. There is 58 of them.



http://s625.photobucket.com/albums/tt332/dreamaker99/SuperCharger%20Setup/

Thanks a lot!

Those really helping

[BonS]

Imohtep - You may want to see my thread about adding a snorkel for the air filter with the gen 2 setup. I used the work by Dreamaker as my inspiration but used two silicone elbows (one @135 deg. and the other @90 deg., both modded) and stainless steel couplings for a smoother airflow. The super-small air filter that was crammed into the small space really messed up the jetting and I think accounts for many supercharger tuning woes. If you're interested I can detail the mod for you as I'm making a second one for another VRCC member, R J Miles.
http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,32905.msg304057.html#msg304057

Dreamaker - Where is the air pressure tap in your manifold for a Hobbs switch and boost gauge? I have a friend that has your same manifold and we can't find the tap. I didn't know this but there are at least three different manifolds that have been produced over the years. My manifold has an protrusion in the rear end of the manifold that has the tap build in. What did you do?

EDIT - Dreamaker, I see the Hobbs switch ports on your manifold. Did it come with these or did you drill and tap prior to assembly?

[Imohtep]

Imohtep - You may want to see my thread about adding a snorkel for the air filter with the gen 2 setup. I used the work by Dreamaker as my inspiration but used two silicone elbows (one @135 deg. and the other @90 deg., both modded) and stainless steel couplings for a smoother airflow. The super-small air filter that was crammed into the small space really messed up the jetting and I think accounts for many supercharger tuning woes. If you're interested I can detail the mod for you as I'm making a second one for another VRCC member, R J Miles.
http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,32905.msg304057.html#msg304057

Dreamaker - Where is the air pressure tap in your manifold for a Hobbs switch and boost gauge? I have a friend that has your same manifold and we can't find the tap. I didn't know this but there are at least three different manifolds that have been produced over the years. My manifold has an protrusion in the rear end of the manifold that has the tap build in. What did you do?

EDIT - Dreamaker, I see the Hobbs switch ports on your manifold. Did it come with these or did you drill and tap prior to assembly?

Thanks BonS, but I have another mode on my mind 

Probably changing the ignition lock to the left side and install large
chromed airfilter box on the right side.
Thats because it won't fit on the left side and the textures goes uppside down on the left side 

I'am almost sure, that I'am in trouble with that mode...

[BonS]

It's an incredibly tight space behind the HSR45 when it's mounted without the J-tube. A simple 90 degree elbow runs into either the gas tank, the petcock or both. I had to go with a Pingle petcock because it's a tiny bit smaller. The Pingle I used has a 90 degree downward fuel port on it. This makes it much easier to get the fuel line on and off as well as providing more clearance for the snorkle.

I have to say that i'm loving my supercharged Valkyrie. I also have an IS and now it feels like it's not running right even though it's in perfect tune. I'm really surprised at the responsiveness at low rpm way below boost. The engine is ready to go at any rpm, period.

Please keep us informed about your progress and about your plans for your bike. There are way too few of us that have taken the leap. 

[Imohtep]

It's an incredibly tight space behind the HSR45 when it's mounted without the J-tube. A simple 90 degree elbow runs into either the gas tank, the petcock or both. I had to go with a Pingle petcock because it's a tiny bit smaller. The Pingle I used has a 90 degree downward fuel port on it. This makes it much easier to get the fuel line on and off as well as providing more clearance for the snorkle.

I have to say that i'm loving my supercharged Valkyrie. I also have an IS and now it feels like it's not running right even though it's in perfect tune. I'm really surprised at the responsiveness at low rpm way below boost. The engine is ready to go at any rpm, period.

Please keep us informed about your progress and about your plans for your bike. There are way too few of us that have taken the leap. 

You got it!

I was mailing with Bill from Magna and he said that I have to "freeze plug" a hole on the left side???

Does anyone know, did he mean that bypass hole on the left side of pressure valve?

The other thing is that lower end of the j-tube. The easiest way is to make a plate to freeze the hole, where the valve is?

And that grappy old fuelpump>some people don't use fuelpump at all with that mode, correct?
I have the original petcock>should be working with that?

[BonS]

Perhaps a few questions? Are you doing a new install or just removing the J-tube in an older install? Do you have a pair valve and smog plumbing on your bike? Do you have Bill's Magnacharger installation instructions?

The only freeze plugs that I know would be used where smog plumbing is removed from the heads. I never did have the old version with the J-tube so I can't be of much help with that. The Gen 2 setup does not need a fuel pump as gravity works just fine. You can use your OEM petcock and get vacuum to it with the HSR45 carburetor tap. That's the way my bike was set up when I got it. The Pingle is my choice for reliability and its small size and my air filter installation.

[Imohtep]

Perhaps a few questions? Are you doing a new install or just removing the J-tube in an older install? Do you have a pair valve and smog plumbing on your bike? Do you have Bill's Magnacharger installation instructions?

The only freeze plugs that I know would be used where smog plumbing is removed from the heads. I never did have the old version with the J-tube so I can't be of much help with that. The Gen 2 setup does not need a fuel pump as gravity works just fine. You can use your OEM petcock and get vacuum to it with the HSR45 carburetor tap. That's the way my bike was set up when I got it. The Pingle is my choice for reliability and its small size and my air filter installation.

Here we go:

Just remowing the J-tube in an older install>so there's going to be anyway one hole to freeze plug at the lower end of j-tube... That's in the middle of the system.

The Gen 2 does not have that one.

Here's Bill's comment "You will simply need to put a 'freeze plug in the hole left when you remove the
'J' tube available from a local auto parts or with a caliper measure the diameter in thousandths"

Does he mean bypass-hole on the left side (just at Gen 1...I think)

Do you have Bill's Magnacharger installation instructions?>Nope...

Do you have a pair valve and smog plumbing on your bike?>Nope...

I will take picture today, of to system, without j-tube...

[BonS]

Bill's instructions won't be of any use to you as you already have the Gen 1 installed. Pictures will be very helpful. I'll be glad to post pictures as well if it will help.

[Imohtep]

Bill's instructions won't be of any use to you as you already have the Gen 1 installed. Pictures will be very helpful. I'll be glad to post pictures as well if it will help.

Just figured it out, that Bill met just that hole at the end of the j-tube, that must freeze plugged

I will get the picture of ancient Gen 1 system 

[Jeff K]

Bill's instructions won't be of any use to you as you already have the Gen 1 installed. Pictures will be very helpful. I'll be glad to post pictures as well if it will help.

Just figured it out, that Bill met just that hole at the end of the j-tube, that must freeze plugged

I will get the picture of ancient Gen 1 system  

Gen 1 setups didn't have a bypass or a J tube at all. I have one of them. It even has a cogged belt instead of the serpentine belt.

[Imohtep]

Bill's instructions won't be of any use to you as you already have the Gen 1 installed. Pictures will be very helpful. I'll be glad to post pictures as well if it will help.

Just figured it out, that Bill met just that hole at the end of the j-tube, that must freeze plugged

I will get the picture of ancient Gen 1 system  

Gen 1 setups didn't have a bypass or a J tube at all. I have one of them. It even has a cogged belt instead of the serpentine belt.

Ok.

So, whitch Gen has j-tube?

Mine has and it's been installed as new on year 2002 (only 8300mls. driven today)...

Here's picture of it without j-tube:

[BonS]

Am I seeing this right? The intake port, where the J-tube meets the manifold, is on a horizontal surface? If so I sure wasn't expecting that. The HSR45 on mine bolts up directly to the back of the blower on its vertical surface.

Jeff K - Can you please shed some light here about the generations? You've been there and done that for sure. I'm begging! And I had been thinking that a toothed belt and/or a spring tensioner would be a better solution that what we have today.

[Imohtep]

Am I seeing this right? The intake port, where the J-tube meets the manifold, is on a horizontal surface? If so I sure wasn't expecting that. The HSR45 on mine bolts up directly to the back of the blower on its vertical surface.

Jeff K - Can you please shed some light here about the generations? You've been there and done that for sure. I'm begging! And I had been thinking that a toothed belt and/or a spring tensioner would be a better solution that what we have today.

That intake is what makes me confused...

I'am thinking that fuel/air mixture goes straight to the blower end and the over pressure opens
the valve at lower "hole" to the intake manifold, then the pressure goes out those two holes witch are on both side of the intake manifold???

I really don't know is it so.

And what Bill met to freeze plugged, is that lover intake to the intake manifold, so when the HSR is bolted up directly to the back of the blower, the over pressure again opens the gate and pressure goes out...

[Jeff K]

The original design had an all welded manifold. The tubes and the manifold were all welded together. It had a similar supercharger, but not the M45 eaton. And it had a cogged belt. The cogged belt is good because you don't have to run it so tight, but it has a safety drawback. If the motor "sneezes", backfires through the manifold, it can do severe damage, and actually could cause injury from flying metal. You can put a pop off safety valve on one to prevent this, but it didn't have one. The ribbed serpentine belt will slip if the motor sneezes. Also I believe the cogged belts were harder to keep on the pulleys.

Next came the billet manifold with the removable intake tubes. It had the M45 Eaton on it, the CV carb, ribbed serpentine belts and a bypass J tube.

A cast manifold came next, it had all the same features, just the change from billet multi-piece manifold to a one piece cast unit.

The Next morph came with the same manifold but with the bypass removed, the hole for it is blocked with a frost plug, and a carb upgrade to the Mikuni.

[Jeff K]

Am I seeing this right? The intake port, where the J-tube meets the manifold, is on a horizontal surface? If so I sure wasn't expecting that. The HSR45 on mine bolts up directly to the back of the blower on its vertical surface.

Jeff K - Can you please shed some light here about the generations? You've been there and done that for sure. I'm begging! And I had been thinking that a toothed belt and/or a spring tensioner would be a better solution that what we have today.

That intake is what makes me confused...

I'am thinking that fuel/air mixture goes straight to the blower end and the over pressure opens
the valve at lower "hole" to the intake manifold, then the pressure goes out those two holes witch are on both side of the intake manifold???

I really don't know is it so.

And what Bill met to freeze plugged, is that lover intake to the intake manifold, so when the HSR is bolted up directly to the back of the blower, the over pressure again opens the gate and pressure goes out...

There is no over pressure valve.
The fuel/air either goes through the supercharger via the port in the back of the supercharger, or down the j tube bypassing the supercharger when the bypass valve is open. The bypass valve would open with high vacuum because the engine wasn't under load, and didn't need the boost. When you open the throttle the vacuum goes down and the bypass valve closes, putting the supercharger into play making boost.
The new thinking is to remove the bypass tube and plug the hole.

[Imohtep]

Am I seeing this right? The intake port, where the J-tube meets the manifold, is on a horizontal surface? If so I sure wasn't expecting that. The HSR45 on mine bolts up directly to the back of the blower on its vertical surface.

Jeff K - Can you please shed some light here about the generations? You've been there and done that for sure. I'm begging! And I had been thinking that a toothed belt and/or a spring tensioner would be a better solution that what we have today.

That intake is what makes me confused...

I'am thinking that fuel/air mixture goes straight to the blower end and the over pressure opens
the valve at lower "hole" to the intake manifold, then the pressure goes out those two holes witch are on both side of the intake manifold???

I really don't know is it so.

And what Bill met to freeze plugged, is that lover intake to the intake manifold, so when the HSR is bolted up directly to the back of the blower, the over pressure again opens the gate and pressure goes out...

There is no over pressure valve.
The fuel/air either goes through the supercharger via the port in the back of the supercharger, or down the j tube bypassing the supercharger when the bypass valve is open. The bypass valve would open with high vacuum because the engine wasn't under load, and didn't need the boost. When you open the throttle the vacuum goes down and the bypass valve closes, putting the supercharger into play making boost.
The new thinking is to remove the bypass tube and plug the hole.

Yes, of course it's like that...

Only thinking, if I leave all the vacuum and bypass components on, is it ok. or does it do something?

And many thanks for clarify those Gens. 

[Jeff K]

Am I seeing this right? The intake port, where the J-tube meets the manifold, is on a horizontal surface? If so I sure wasn't expecting that. The HSR45 on mine bolts up directly to the back of the blower on its vertical surface.

Jeff K - Can you please shed some light here about the generations? You've been there and done that for sure. I'm begging! And I had been thinking that a toothed belt and/or a spring tensioner would be a better solution that what we have today.

That intake is what makes me confused...

I'am thinking that fuel/air mixture goes straight to the blower end and the over pressure opens
the valve at lower "hole" to the intake manifold, then the pressure goes out those two holes witch are on both side of the intake manifold???

I really don't know is it so.

And what Bill met to freeze plugged, is that lover intake to the intake manifold, so when the HSR is bolted up directly to the back of the blower, the over pressure again opens the gate and pressure goes out...

There is no over pressure valve.
The fuel/air either goes through the supercharger via the port in the back of the supercharger, or down the j tube bypassing the supercharger when the bypass valve is open. The bypass valve would open with high vacuum because the engine wasn't under load, and didn't need the boost. When you open the throttle the vacuum goes down and the bypass valve closes, putting the supercharger into play making boost.
The new thinking is to remove the bypass tube and plug the hole.

Yes, of course it's like that...

Only thinking, if I leave all the vacuum and bypass components on, is it ok. or does it do something?

And many thanks for clarify those Gens. 

You could leave it all on there if you want. Just plug the hole.

[Imohtep]

Am I seeing this right? The intake port, where the J-tube meets the manifold, is on a horizontal surface? If so I sure wasn't expecting that. The HSR45 on mine bolts up directly to the back of the blower on its vertical surface.

Jeff K - Can you please shed some light here about the generations? You've been there and done that for sure. I'm begging! And I had been thinking that a toothed belt and/or a spring tensioner would be a better solution that what we have today.

That intake is what makes me confused...

I'am thinking that fuel/air mixture goes straight to the blower end and the over pressure opens
the valve at lower "hole" to the intake manifold, then the pressure goes out those two holes witch are on both side of the intake manifold???

I really don't know is it so.

And what Bill met to freeze plugged, is that lover intake to the intake manifold, so when the HSR is bolted up directly to the back of the blower, the over pressure again opens the gate and pressure goes out...

There is no over pressure valve.
The fuel/air either goes through the supercharger via the port in the back of the supercharger, or down the j tube bypassing the supercharger when the bypass valve is open. The bypass valve would open with high vacuum because the engine wasn't under load, and didn't need the boost. When you open the throttle the vacuum goes down and the bypass valve closes, putting the supercharger into play making boost.
The new thinking is to remove the bypass tube and plug the hole.

Yes, of course it's like that...

Only thinking, if I leave all the vacuum and bypass components on, is it ok. or does it do something?

And many thanks for clarify those Gens. 

You could leave it all on there if you want. Just plug the hole.

OK.

[BonS]

Imohtep, do you have the correct tapered jet needle for your HSR45? I think you will have to buy one from Bill. The rest of the standard carburetor parts are standard to any of the HSR's. I picked up jets from a Harley dealer for just a couple of dollars each.

And thanks Jeff K for your information. It's much appreciated!

[dreamaker]

Maybe this will be helpful concerning the needles, hope this helps.

[Imohtep]

Imohtep, do you have the correct tapered jet needle for your HSR45? I think you will have to buy one from Bill. The rest of the standard carburetor parts are standard to any of the HSR's. I picked up jets from a Harley dealer for just a couple of dollars each.

And thanks Jeff K for your information. It's much appreciated!

Those are on my list...

If Bill don't sell the needle, I have to make one

[Imohtep]

Imohtep, do you have the correct tapered jet needle for your HSR45? I think you will have to buy one from Bill. The rest of the standard carburetor parts are standard to any of the HSR's. I picked up jets from a Harley dealer for just a couple of dollars each.

And thanks Jeff K for your information. It's much appreciated!

Those are on my list...

If Bill don't sell the needle, I have to make one

Well:

Needle (like Bill's moded needle) is done.

Very nice 3d-modelled intake installed.

Little problems with intakehose>tight with petcock>will fit...

Waiting another aluminium part on the right side, where I will install aircleaner...

Coils found new place to be.

New Accel sparkplug wires.

Tomorrow first start up...

Fail to insert image, so here's link:

http://kuvablogi.com/nayta/3494139/

[BonS]

Here you go. 

[BonS]

Everything looks really good. The bracket for the coils is slick. I see the issue you have with the petcock and your intake tube. If you can't make it work how you like I might be able to make another suggestion for a solution. Getting enough airflow is essential and I like where you're going with your snorkel. But I don't see how your going to work around the petcock.

[Imohtep]

Here you go. 

Thanks!

[Imohtep]

Everything looks really good. The bracket for the coils is slick. I see the issue you have with the petcock and your intake tube. If you can't make it work how you like I might be able to make another suggestion for a solution. Getting enough airflow is essential and I like where you're going with your snorkel. But I don't see how your going to work around the petcock.

Always interested in new solutions

Probably trying to find 90 degree adapter for gasoline hose, then simple petcock/gasoline lock and then filter.

Waiting for aluminium motorbracket/adapter for this aircleaner, on the right side:
http://www.ultimaproducts.com/aircleaner.html


But, like I said, " interested in new solutions"...

[BonS]

I'm not going to "muddy the water" with my approach as it looks like you're doing just fine. The air filter assembly looks good. If you find a way for the gas line to run then all should be good.

[Imohtep]

I'm not going to "muddy the water" with my approach as it looks like you're doing just fine. The air filter assembly looks good. If you find a way for the gas line to run then all should be good.

Hard to find 90 decree fuel hose adapter with same thread...

Have to try again tomorrow.

Start the bike today first time with new mode.

Throttle responce is amazing 

[Imohtep]

I'm not going to "muddy the water" with my approach as it looks like you're doing just fine. The air filter assembly looks good. If you find a way for the gas line to run then all should be good.

Hard to find 90 decree fuel hose adapter with same thread...

Have to try again tomorrow.

Start the bike today first time with new mode.

Throttle responce is amazing 

Weird thing, was little bit hard to start>yesterday carb floats>adjusting and floating stops.

Then it was hard to get start, but when I get it start, it was on too rich and adjust leaner.

Drove little bit to get it warm and worked almost great. I shut it down and today woun't start...

Carburetor gets gas and motor have sparks.

Adjust richer but does not start.

It tries to start, when spraying little spraycleaner strait to the carburetor...

So, probable carburetor doesn't work probably.

It has 210 (yes, it can be bigger) main jet, needle in the middle, 27,5 small jet and about 2 rounds open airscrew...

Any ideas?

[BonS]

What is your air temperature? The colder the air the more difficult the startup. Offhand I don't remember what my mains are but my slo is 27.5. Your airscrew sounds about right but you need your engine warmed up and idling to do a fine adjustment.

Is your choke cable properly installed? No choke, no start.

Is your carburetor pump working and squirting fuel? I pump the throttle several times, on each try, to get some liquid fuel in the intake to get the bike to fire. If it doesn't start after a couple of seconds then I stop and twist the throttle several times again and repeat. When the bike is fully warmed up it starts easily. Usually no choke but sometime a throttle twist or two.