A religious question for Robert.

[Chattanooga Mark]

God's plan of sowing and reeping works, every time and in every way.

Sow respect, reep respect.

And so on, and so on, and so on...

Mark

[Robert]

Eagle I tell you what in the interest of fairness since I only repeated what was said by Jesus if you can get Him to change His story Ill go along with it. Intimidation or rants will never make anyone except the weak agree with you.

[SANDMAN5]

Eagle first you have never in all your attacks said what you believe.

That point's been made SEVERAL times!!!!

[Bonzo]

So, If you do not belive in Jesus Christ as the Son of G-D, you can not get into heaven ? Really?

[fstsix]

My only real concern with the influence of religion is when politicians and lawmakers attempt to turn their religious beliefs into laws that govern all.  I am wary of any politician who considers their religion as a major reason to run for office.  Personal religious views are fine, and can be beneficial to the person when used for self-improvement.  When people use religion to encroach on others, then it becomes a problem.

Really ?   U.S. Capitol Tour with David Barton

[SANDMAN5]

So, If you do not belive in Jesus Christ as the Son of G-D, you can not get into heaven ? Really?

Ain't that purty much what this whole thread's been about?? But that IS what it
says in the Bible.....Jesus said....I am the Way the Truth and the Life. No man comes
to the Father except by me. I believe it. You can believe or not...your choice.

[Robert]

I cried when I saw that video and asked God to forgive us for straying.

If you take away Jesus out of the equation how do you deal with the burden of sin?

Sin is real sin has weight sin can be enjoyable for a time but there is always a price to pay.

We do not have to be goody two shoes but we have to be mindful that we carry around in us the presence of God. I make the point that we are not Gods but that the Holy Spirit dwells in us and we value that relationship and its worth more to give up things that would grieve that precious third person of the Trinity than to loose His companionship. So what does this say we can dwell in sin go our own way and pay the price but if we want a closer relationship with God and Jesus we have to listen to what He says would separate Him from us. Like I have always said its a choice.Religion doesn't give you a choice God always does, religion doesn't tell you why God says it will hurt you. I can choose to have a affair on my wife, which will cause a separation, but I will pay the consequences that to me just like my relationship with the Lord just isn't worth it. I have made a choice and made a commitment I will with all my strength live to try to not to break either. So I choose to give up the things that would cause us to be separated. I also add my wife and Jesus made the same choices. 

How can the two walk as one unless they agree?

1Co 6:15  Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ? Shall I then take away the members of Christ and make them members of a prostitute? May it never be!
1Co 6:16  Or do you not know that the one who joins himself to a prostitute is one body with her? For He says, "THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH."
1Co 6:17  But the one who joins himself to the Lord is one spirit with Him.
1Co 6:18  Flee immorality. Every other sin that a man commits is outside the body, but the immoral man sins against his own body.
1Co 6:19  Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own?
1Co 6:20  For you have been bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body.

WE in this day and age say dont do it but never give reasons why not to. Here is a perfect example of why we shouldn't do certain things beyond......no. If we have forgotten this so basic a reason, how many others have we forgotten?

[Robert]

He Knows My Name - Tommy Walker

[3fan4life]

Why?  Robert doesn't respect my beliefs.  He thinks I am going to fry in hell if I don't believe like he does.  He thinks my beliefs are inferior to his because only his beliefs lead to "salvation".  I have no use for such claptrap.  When Robert can fully acknowledge that my belief system with respect to the One is equal to his, then we can talk about 'respect'.  Meanwhile, spare me your platitudes.

And a Muslim will condemn you to hell if you don't believe in Islam.

Again I ask: Why would ANYONE worship a God that they didn't believe in?

Besides if you are so sure that Robert is wrong, why do you care if he thinks you are going to hell?

If he is wrong then what he thinks should be irrelevant to you.

Maybe, you are offended by what he thinks about your eternal destination because you are afraid that he might be right.

[elraque]

So, If you do not belive in Jesus Christ as the Son of G-D, you can not get into heaven ? Really?

That's only true if Jesus Christ taught the truth.

In His own words: "I am the Way and the Truth and the Light. No one cometh to the Father except through me."

Christ either taught the truth or He didn't. How could He be a "great teacher" if He taught lies? (Rhetorical question)

[Chattanooga Mark]

When you legislate God out of society as we have done in this country for many years. All you have left are opinions. Opinions and tolerance levels change at the whim of society. God is the same yesterday, today and forever. Without God as the standard, we become self righteous and make our own standard of right and wrong,  good, good enough or bad.

You either believe God and His word (Holy Bible) or you don't. You either call Him a liar or you don't. You're either your own god, or you submit to Him as your God. And if God isn't God over our all, He isn't your God at all.

Study His word and compare it to any other 'religion' on earth. Most non-believers and even some believers are simply too lazy and/or prideful to do so. Ignorance of God's word is no excuse because He puts into every person the need to search for Him.

If you can get past Genesis 1:1, the rest of the bible should pose no issue for you what so ever.

All the best,

Mark

[x]

Why?  Robert doesn't respect my beliefs.  He thinks I am going to fry in hell if I don't believe like he does.  He thinks my beliefs are inferior to his because only his beliefs lead to "salvation".  I have no use for such claptrap.  When Robert can fully acknowledge that my belief system with respect to the One is equal to his, then we can talk about 'respect'.  Meanwhile, spare me your platitudes.

Wayne, you may be mistaking validation for respect.  My understanding is that I can treat people respectfully with whom I have strong differences of opinion or viewpoint.  The respect I give, though, doesn't extend to my doubting my own beliefs or confessing that I think they have as much chance of being right as do I.

Honestly, I think the biggest challenge for most of us would be treating someone with respect whom we believe has just demonstrated that he very well may be dumber than dirt.  I'd like us all to feel the need to rise to unreasonable challenges.

I think our friend, 3Fan, may have overstated when he asked, "Why do you think no one on this board respects you?"  However, I do think that disrespect generally breeds more disrespect.

Good points, all, Willow.  Thank you.

[x]

Eagle first you have never in all your attacks said what you believe.

That point's been made SEVERAL times!!!!

Why should I?  I am not trying to proselytize my views to anyone.

[x]

Eagle I tell you what in the interest of fairness since I only repeated what was said by Jesus if you can get Him to change His story Ill go along with it. Intimidation or rants will never make anyone except the weak agree with you.

Another way of looking at it.

"The illiterate of the 21st century will not be those who cannot read and write, but those who cannot learn, unlearn, and relearn."

Alvin Toffler

[x]

Besides if you are so sure that Robert is wrong, why do you care if he thinks you are going to hell?

I don't care.  Merely pointing out that Robert is convinced he knows more than me when it comes to God and the afterlife, and therefore cannot respect my belief system.

In my view, Robert is going to have big problems in the afterlife... he's got it all wrong.

[3fan4life]

Robert is convinced he knows more than me.

And how could we ever forget that NO-ONE KNOWS more than you? Since we are constantly reminded by you, how superior that you are to all of us.       

[3fan4life]

In my view, Robert is going to have big problems in the afterlife... he's got it all wrong.

In YOUR oppinion that is.

That and $2 might get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks.

[3fan4life]

Robert is convinced he knows more than me when it comes to God and the afterlife, and therefore cannot respect my belief system.

You are not asking Robert to respect your belief system, you are asking him to accept it and agree with it.

That attitude is LUDICROUS!

You have the right to believe anything about the afterlife that you wish.

You don't have the right to insist that others believe the same as you.

That makes you NO BETTER than the people that you rant against.

For the THIRD time I ask (no answer from you yet):

WHY WOULD ANYONE WORSHIP A GOD THAT THEY DIDN'T BELIEVE IN?

[3fan4life]

Eagle first you have never in all your attacks said what you believe.

That point's been made SEVERAL times!!!!

Why should I?  I am not trying to proselytize my views to anyone.

It would be easier to RESPECT your belief system if anyone knew what it was. If you've got it all figured out, and we're all wrong then why not share what you know?

If you truly believe that you have found the way into Heaven but won't let us in on the secret, then you are telling all of us to, "GO TO HELL".

[Billy]

No body should. History shows that trouble is always the outcome when any religion gets a foothold in that country's government and legislate laws that are derived from some religious belief.

[3fan4life]

No body should. History shows that trouble is always the outcome when any religion gets a foothold in that country's government and legislate laws that are derived from some religious belief.

I would have to say, That depends on the law.
Most basic laws align themselves with Judeo-Christian beliefs.

Do not murder, do not steal, etc.

I do agree that a government should not attempt to base all legislation on the principles of any one religion.

I have said many times that you cannot legislate morality.

The question becomes, where is the line?

Where do my rights interfere with your rights?

For example:

Should I be allowed to open a strip club on the same street with several churches (of any religion)?

And what about near elementary schools?

My leaning is that individual communities should be allowed the latitude to establish their own "moral" code.

Based upon what the majority of the citizens living in that community feel is acceptable or unacceptable.

[Robert]

You are not asking Robert to respect your belief system, you are asking him to accept it and agree with it.


If you truly believe that you have found the way into Heaven but won't let us in on the secret, then you are telling all of us to, "GO TO HELL".



Very well put. 

[hubcapsc]

My leaning is that individual communities should be allowed the latitude to establish their own "moral" code.

Tough. It appears that everything must be homogenized down to the lowest common denominator. Everything must be the same.
Welcome to McDonald's...

-Mike

[Bobbo]

I would have to say, That depends on the law.
Most basic laws align themselves with Judeo-Christian beliefs.

Do not murder, do not steal, etc.

It would be more correct to say Judeo-Christian beliefs have aligned themselves with common laws, since these laws have been around in some form or another much longer than Moses.  Further still, there is only a marginal crossover between Judeo-Christian beliefs and most laws.  Murder and theft laws have been virtually universal for a long time.  If laws actually aligned themselves with the Ten Commandments (the basis for Judeo-Christian beliefs), we would outlaw idol worship, adultery, swearing, doing business on the weekend, "dissing" your parents, lying, and being envious of others' slaves and possessions.

[Billy]

One has to reach the far end of their credibility by assuming laws against homicide and theft are strictly Christian values. Believe it or not but most countries in the world have laws against murder or theft. Zoning laws will always be a contentious subject, whether it be strip clubs near schools or what color one can paint their homes. That is all left up to local government, but are you saying that a non believer would have no problem with a titty bar next door to their child's school? You may want to rethink that argument.
The major issues facing our federal govt is tax laws, sexual and reproductive issues, relationship issues, health and medical research issues, and issues regarding public education.  Otherwise I think not many will mind people arguing as to whose supernatural being is bigger/better/badder than someone's else, amoungst themselves and not in the hall of congress.

[fudgie]

No body should. History shows that trouble is always the outcome when any religion gets a foothold in that country's government and legislate laws that are derived from some religious belief.

I would have to say, That depends on the law.
Most basic laws align themselves with Judeo-Christian beliefs.

Do not murder, do not steal, etc.

I do agree that a government should not attempt to base all legislation on the principles of any one religion.

I have said many times that you cannot legislate morality.

The question becomes, where is the line?

Where do my rights interfere with your rights?

For example:

Should I be allowed to open a strip club on the same street with several churches (of any religion)?

And what about near elementary schools?

My leaning is that individual communities should be allowed the latitude to establish their own "moral" code.

Based upon what the majority of the citizens living in that community feel is acceptable or unacceptable.

now lets not throw TT bars into the mix. 

[3fan4life]

It would be more correct to say Judeo-Christian beliefs have aligned themselves with common laws, since these laws have been around in some form or another much longer than Moses.  

Is it Potāto or Potäto?

No, the Ten commandments aren't the only nor are they the first historical record against murder or theft.

If laws actually aligned themselves with the Ten Commandments (the basis for Judeo-Christian beliefs), we would outlaw idol worship, adultery, swearing, doing business on the weekend, "dissing" your parents, lying, and being envious of others' slaves and possessions.

Did I say "ALL" Laws?

There are laws against adultery.

It is against the law to swear at someone and in many places it is against the law to swear in public.

It is against the law to lie as well. You can go to jail for lying to congress (ironic isnt it), the police or for lying in court (perjury).

There are some places where "Blue" laws still exist. These are laws that do make it illegal to conduct certain business transactions on Sunday.

Many laws reguarding the sale of Alcohol still have their basis in these blue laws.

[3fan4life]

now lets not throw TT bars into the mix.  

  If you want to get peoples attention you have to go with what is NEAR and DEAR to their hearts    

[3fan4life]

One has to reach the far end of their credibility by assuming laws against homicide and theft are strictly Christian values.

I never said that laws are only based on Christian values.

are you saying that a non believer would have no problem with a titty bar next door to their child's school? You may want to rethink that argument.

No I am not.  What I am saying is that the moral code of the majority should decide what laws represent the values of that society.

The major issues facing our federal govt is tax laws, sexual and reproductive issues, relationship issues, health and medical research issues, and issues regarding public education.

Actually I think that we would all be better off if congress stayed out of most of these issues as well.

[Bobbo]

There are laws against adultery.

It is against the law to swear at someone and in many places it is against the law to swear in public.

It is against the law to lie as well. You can go to jail for lying to congress (ironic isnt it), the police or for lying in court (perjury).

There are some places where "Blue" laws still exist. These are laws that do make it illegal to conduct certain business transactions on Sunday.

Many laws reguarding the sale of Alcohol still have their basis in these blue laws.

Show me a news account of someone arrested, convicted, and sentenced for adultery.

You are confusing misguided local ordnances with federal or state laws.

It is illegal to lie under oath, which is a contract between you and the governing authority you are speaking to.  Lying isn't illegal, breaking a legally sworn oath is.

See the second item regarding "blue laws"

[3fan4life]

Show me a news account of someone arrested, convicted, and sentenced for adultery.

OK

http://www.buffalonews.com/city/police-courts/police-blotter/article249198.ece

You are confusing misguided local ordnances with federal or state laws.

Are you implying that local ordinances are not "laws" and therefore may be disreguarded with no consequence?

And

Most states still have laws on the books against adultery.

http://ezinearticles.com/?Laws-Against-Adultery&id=1686680

Granted they aren't enforced much anymore.
Still they haven't been taken off of the books and adultery is still a factor in many divorce cases.

It is illegal to lie under oath, which is a contract between you and the governing authority you are speaking to.  Lying isn't illegal, breaking a legally sworn oath is.

You are "splitting " hairs, it is still the act of lying that is illegal.

See the second item regarding "blue laws"

The times of sale for alcohol and whether it can be sold on Sunday or not are state laws.

[Billy]

Did you read the article you posted on the Buffalo man. The adultery charges were dropped, he was being tried for bumping monkeys in public on a pic nix table.   Dam those pagans.

[3fan4life]

Did you read the article you posted on the Buffalo man. The adultery charges were dropped, he was being tried for bumping monkeys in public on a pic nix table.   Dam those pagans.

Yes it was dropped, but the "felony" charge of adultery was used as leverage by the prosecution.

They dropped it after he agreed to plead guilty to the misdemeanor charges.

Interestingly enough since he didn't show for sentencing I suspose that they could now reinstate the adultery charge if they wanted to.

[Bobbo]

Show me a news account of someone arrested, convicted, and sentenced for adultery.

OK

http://www.buffalonews.com/city/police-courts/police-blotter/article249198.ece

You are confusing misguided local ordnances with federal or state laws.

Are you implying that local ordinances are not "laws" and therefore may be disreguarded with no consequence?

And

Most states still have laws on the books against adultery.

http://ezinearticles.com/?Laws-Against-Adultery&id=1686680

Granted they aren't enforced much anymore.
Still they haven't been taken off of the books and adultery is still a factor in many divorce cases.

It is illegal to lie under oath, which is a contract between you and the governing authority you are speaking to.  Lying isn't illegal, breaking a legally sworn oath is.

You are "splitting " hairs, it is still the act of lying that is illegal.

See the second item regarding "blue laws"

The times of sale for alcohol and whether it can be sold on Sunday or not are state laws.

From the article:

Justin Amend, 24, did not show up in court Wednesday for his scheduled sentencing on a public lewdness charge.

Not splitting hairs.  They are quite different.  Ask an attorney.

[3fan4life]

From the article:

Justin Amend, 24, did not show up in court Wednesday for his scheduled sentencing on a public lewdness charge.

Not splitting hairs.  They are quite different.  Ask an attorney.

See my above post

[SANDMAN5]

Why should I?  I am not trying to proselytize my views to anyone

I'll ask it the opposite way.....why SHOULDN'T you? Several possible answers to that.

1. You don't really know what you believe
2. You're ashamed/embarrassed about your beliefs
3. You hate everyone here so much that you don't want us to know the truth....or
    at least what you call the truth
4. All you want to do is argue and try to stir up trouble. Perhaps that's the only way
   you can get anyone to talk to you
5. You change your belief so often that it would be too time consuming to post every
    change


The answer is one of the above or some combination of same. None of them say anything
good about you or your mythical "beliefs".
I patiently await your answer. See if you can respond in a nice way.  

[SANDMAN5]

"The illiterate of the 21st century will not be those who cannot read and write, but those who cannot learn, unlearn, and relearn."

Why unlearn the truth? It's been said before that science has been proven wrong more than
once. God has NEVER  been proven wrong. Maybe Alvin is illiterate?

[SANDMAN5]

I don't care.  Merely pointing out that Robert is convinced he knows more than me when it comes to God and the afterlife, and therefore cannot respect my belief system.

In my view, Robert is going to have big problems in the afterlife... he's got it all wrong.

If you don't care, why are you even posting on this thread? ???
How can he/we respect something we know nothing about? ???
If he's got it all wrong why are you not trying to tell him/us what's "right"?

[Robert]

Eagle I want to thank you for making me reflect how to answer you. I look down on no man for I know there go I except for the Grace of God. But if you want to compare your God to mine the only thing I can say is I will pray for you. I don't say that for fear of loss but there is no comparison. There will be no word wars.

[big turkey]

God ,,,,,,,,,,who is he.

Look out your window and see him.

Jesus who is he,,,,,,,,,,,,

Look out the window and see him.

Holy Spirit who is he.

Be careful with this one, it is the Power of an Almighty God.

Warning is all.

Al