Off duty biker cop shoots a-hole

[Quicksilver]

Right about now that cop is probably wishing he was the one that was shot. It has to be a real soul crusher to be carrying that burden when he tried his best to prevent it.
I wouldn't want to be in his shoes for the next 50 years.

[saddlesore]

No one here mentioned how the father came out of a restaurant.  Did HE see the accident?
The father didn't check on his daughter, if he would have he would have found she suffered some bumps and contusions.  (She was being held at the hospital over night for observation).
The father was jumping to conclusions just we have been doing here. We didn't see it.  The father jumping to conclusions got him killed.

[texaninsouthfl]

...i really hate how people rush to assume that because this dead father was perposly attacking an undercover police officer, even when the off duty cop says he's a cop.

Not undercover, off-duty, big difference. I think that I would want to tend to my injured daughter foremost, not extract revenge on the person who hit her (be it cop or not). What you fail to realize is that he attacked the guy before he even knew he was an officer. The attack continued after he identified himself. The attack should have not happened in the first place, cop or not.

What if this was your son or daughter driving down the street who this happened to; being attacked by the girl's father, would you have the same attitude? Or is your attitude because he's a cop?

if it were MY CHILD, i'd have done the same thing to the ass hole, i don't care if he's a cop or not.  just to say he's a cop doesn't mean he has the right to draw a weapon and shoot.  if he were a good cop, he would have been able to avoid a confrontation, but dead men tell no tales now do they?

So instead of tending to your daughter, you would go beat someone?!?! Scary.

If he were a good cop he would have been able to avoid the confrontation? Did you read the article? He has/had a broken leg and shoulder from the crash! Yeah, pretty easy to avoid this confrontation huh? I guess cops have magical powers to still use avoidance techniques (physical or verbal) whether or not they are hurt or not. He did use a technique, before being beaten to a pulp or even being killed, he defended himself. Isn't that what the gun guys here preach all the time, the right to defend yourself? He shouldn't have that same right?

he was riding too agresively through a residential street, he was not able to control his vehicle, and then he kills a man.

Who said that? You ever been doing 30 or 35 and have a dog dart out in front of you? How about a car start to pull out of a parking lot? Oh yeah I forgot, "good riders" never have to use emergency braking or avoidance... just blood thirsty cops bent on running down little kids. Also, just because some city spokesman says he "laid the bike down" does not make that fact. Maybe he locked the front brake which dropped him... no one can say for sure. But the term "laid the bike down" is used commonly in situations where it was not a purposeful act.

this whole thing ticks me off, what ticks me off even more are you idiots that say the cop did nothing wrong.  little kids run out into streets, so do dear, it is the riders responciblity to anticipate these situations, obviously he didn't, so now a daughter is without a father because of it.  and some irresponcable cop gets to go home to his family as if nothings wrong in the world.

See above about ever having something dart out in front of you. He might not have anticipated the situation, but does that equate to ANYONE getting the snot beat out of them. The causation of this situation is obvious, off-duty cop may or may not have been riding prudently in the area, nobody knows. Little girl gets hit. So instead of tending to your beloved daughter, you extract street justice and it gets you killed. Be pissed all you want at the cop, attempt to sue his ass off, get him in trouble with the powers that be, all of that is fine... but the father made the choice to engage in his actions and that's what got him killed.

I would think that is pretty obvious to everybody, except cop haters.

PTBG makes all the sense in the world and is exactly right. His post lays everything out logically but some people here are just too hard headed to accept and understand it. Some people are just purebred cop haters and nothing anybody could say would make a difference to them.

+1

[alph]

what ticked me off was when T.P. started off with his comment (that he removed) that stated "it's about time"

as if he were saying "good, another dead n*ger".  i really hate how people rush to assume.

Wrong on that count Alph, your the only one who has brought up race.  I guess you rushed to assume. T.P.

So tell me T.P., what DID you mean when you wrote "it's about time"?  seriously?  You wrote it, then deleted it, why?  

Alph, why is  it if any one disagrees with you, you get personal and nasty. Why do you feel the need to always call people names. I feel sorry for you. Think you need to meditate a little for some zen.

Disagreeing  is one thing, saying someone deserved to die because he saw his daughter get hurt, then attacked the person causing harm to his child is another.  

What a crock of Sh$$T...
You are just absolutely full of crap and just spewing venom over the story simply because there was a cop involved.

titan, bite me.  You're the one that started the "cop haters" comment.  Personally, I think you're a dick.  I never said anything about hatting cops, I just feel this one cop in particular is an idiot.  Like I said before, this cop used too much force and now a FATHER OF A CHILD is dead.  

As for the rest of you that THINK caring a gun around is going to "protect" you, think again.  It just might get you messed up in an "accidental" murder!!  
If you're quick to whipping out a gun just because YOU CAUSED A FIGHT, then maybe, just maybe you shouldn't be caring one.

I went back and reread the article. Where did you get the idea he was speeding. I didnt see that.

 If that was me I would have shot the idiot too.

Get the facts streight before you starting spouting off.......

Yep, that's right, you should get your facts straight.
If the guys cycle was able to skid, then flip, I would say he's going too fast.  


By the way, the guy says "I'm a cop" would you believe that? Yeah, sure...... some reports say that he only mentioned this AFTER he shot the guy.  why didn't he pull out his badge before he pulled out his gun?

[alph]

http://www.suntimes.com/14432890-761/off-duty-cop-shoots-kills-angry-dad-after-wipeout.html

It's about time for another biased media covered shooting in Chicago involving an African American and a cop on a motorcycle. why no Sharpton and Jackson photo op for this one ?

I was at work this morning and couldn't finish the thread so I deleted the above only to finish it tonight.

OH I GET IT!!  it is ALL about race isn't it!?!  interesting...... (here i thought i was wrong.....)

By the way, there's a school on the corner of Madison and 1st ave.  that "cop" should have know better to be looking out for kids in that area.  but then again, i guess i'm a "cop hater" anyway.....

[X Ring]

By the way, there's a school on the corner of Madison and 1st ave.  that "cop" should have know better to be looking out for kids in that area.  but then again, i guess i'm a "cop hater" anyway.....

This happened on Saturday evening.  Not during a time when the school's playgrounds would be open to neighborhood kids.  Even in my part of the country the school grounds are fenced and locked when school is not open.  I would be very surprised if Chicago area schools aren't. 

Marty

[Varmintmist]

I am ok with calling foul when a cop goes over the line.

This time, there isnt a foul with over use of force or privledge by a civilian with a badge who thinks hes Gods gift to laws that he doesnt respect. There was a opportunist baby daddy and a pal who wanted to do a beating.

There are 2 situations, 1 a accident, 2 a beating. Gotta tell you that if I have a accident and am 100% at fault, as was this cop, and 2 guys start kicking me to the ground, there will be a firearm deployed and I dont care if it is the dad and or husband, I dont care if it is the MOM as one of the perps, I won't be dying there.

[Jabba]

I think the biker... was probably going too fast... and the decision to ditch is a bad one.  A bike will stop faster with the rubber down, than it will with the shiny parts scraping the asphalt.  So... if he DECIDED to ditch... it was a poor decision.

I don't know that he had an OBLIGATION to declare his status as an officer.  Do they have a DUTY to declare that in a situation?

I'd probably have shot as well.  You can't just LET someone BEAT you to death. 

Jabba

[Spirited-6]

Alph, why is  it if any one disagrees with you, you get personal and nasty. Why do you feel the need to always call people names. I feel sorry for you. Think you need to meditate a little for some zen.

Plus one.   

[MacDragon]

A tragic series of events to be sure... but no one knows exactly what happened except the ones who actually witnessed it... However, personally, if I'm lawfully carrying a weapon and I'm being beaten... I AM going to defend myself regardless of what brought on the attack.

[bigguy]

I think the biker... was probably going too fast... and the decision to ditch is a bad one.  A bike will stop faster with the rubber down, than it will with the shiny parts scraping the asphalt.  So... if he DECIDED to ditch... it was a poor decision.

+  flippin 1 Physics just doesn't support the idea of "laying it down," to keep from hitting something.

Regardless of the bikers speed though, where was the daddy when when the little girl ran into the street. It sure seems possible there was a dearth of adult supervision at a point in time the accident could have been prevented. Finally, I sure agree with whoever it was earlier in the post who wondered about the guy being more interested in beating up the biker than checking on the daughter he was supposedly so concerned for.

[buzz]

Cop or not.  The punk (so-called father) deserved what he got.

[oZ]

Is there a cure for Alph's inability to use logic or facts?

Is there something that can be done to make him grow out of his permanent infantilism?

His demonstration of name calling and inclination to jump to conclusions is totally immature, childish and since he's an adult probably not capable of learning how to behave like an adult.

That said I am glad he is a member of our group, but sometime, just sometimes he makes me want to desert my few remaining liberal views out of shame of association with juvenile behaviors often associated with liberal rants and so prevalent in the current presidential race.

[Serk]

Sorry to allow this to be about people instead of issues, but..... Are we confusing Alph for Anvil here? Just wondering... From my own interactions, Alph rarely leaves the path of polite discourse... (Although I'll admit in this thread he definitely has) And while his total number of postings is way down, Anvil is still just as caustic as ever when he does post.

I may be mistaken, just getting the impression some of us are crossing these two members in our minds, and wanted to call attention to that possibility...

[oZ]

That's why I used "sometimes" reference and I'm glad Alph is here. I've learned from Alph but his posts on this subject freaked me out. We don't know the facts and Alph sayingsuch negative things without knowing kind of shook me.

Sorry Alph.

[steve 3054]

Varmintmist
Member

Posts: 649


Western Pa


   Re: Off duty biker cop shoots a-hole
« Reply #46 on: Today at 04:29:29 AM » Quote  

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am ok with calling foul when a cop goes over the line.

This time, there isnt a foul with over use of force or privledge by a civilian with a badge who thinks hes Gods gift to laws that he doesnt respect. There was a opportunist baby daddy and a pal who wanted to do a beating.

There are 2 situations, 1 a accident, 2 a beating. Gotta tell you that if I have a accident and am 100% at fault, as was this cop,


What did you see in your crystal ball to see the Police Offcer 100% at fault?

[alph]

That's why I used "sometimes" reference and I'm glad Alph is here. I've learned from Alph but his posts on this subject freaked me out. We don't know the facts and Alph sayingsuch negative things without knowing kind of shook me.

Sorry Alph.

well, let me tell you what shocks me.  people that believe that killing a person because he is reacting to his daughter being injured.  that it's okay to kill someone because they throw a punch at you.  killiing someone just because you're afraid they're going to hirt you.  killing someone, just killing someone.  you "christians" use to preach "turn the other cheek".  now, it's shoot to kill.  

i was really freaked out when i saw T.P's original post saying "it's about time".  then read the article of a guy getting shot because he punched a guy (at that point he DID NOT know the guy was a cop).  people saying the child was "unsupervised" and that the father was irresponcable.  how do you know, you weren't there?  the child was with her 18 year old cousin and just happened to run out into the street, what 4 year old kid is ever able to be watched 100% of the time?  

what really freaks me out is that you guys call ME a "cop hater" because i WILL NOT take the side of a police officer having the right to shoot people as a defense.  you (Edit: name calling removed) just assume that the police comisioner is telling the 100% trueth in the matter, and that all cops are honest.  (get your head out of the sand (Edit: name calling removed), they're NOT)

why don't you guys put your self in the shoes of that father, put yourself in the shoes of that BLACK MAN and tell me if YOU would trust a white man when he say's "i'm a police officer" after he shoots you?  

i'm not black, but i have lived years in a racist town, and i will chose the side of the victom before i chose the side of the purputrator ANYDAY.

THERE ARE TWO SIDES TO EVERY STORY.  EXPAND YOUR ABILITY TO THINK OF OTHER SITUATIONS BEFORE YOU PULL OUT YOUR GUNS.

shame on all of you for passing judgement.  you are as guilty as anyone when it comes to killing or being prejudice.

TP, my advise to you is this; before you hit post, pre-read.

oh yeah, and for Trevon Martin, i believed he was murdered also. (bite me you (Edit: name calling removed))

i'm done with this subject.  

[steve 3054]

By the way, the guy says "I'm a cop" would you believe that? Yeah, sure...... some reports say that he only mentioned this AFTER he shot the guy.  why didn't he pull out his badge before he pulled out his gun? by Alph

This one is good also..".hold on while your beating my face I am trying to find my badge"

I am new here a VERY surprised by the hatered showed by some members here,towards Police Officers, actually shocked!!!Just another Martin/Zimmerman hate thread without any knowledge of what happened...

The facts are very sad, all the way around and until the final truth is told I will be keeping my commets to myself and let the authorities place blame where it lies...

[Jess from VA]

While the facts precipitating the incidents are entirely different, anyone see the similarity to Geo Zimmerman in FL?

Serious assault by unarmed-guy, armed-guy getting beat down, so armed-guy shoots unarmed-guy to survive (or stop the beating).

But folks, just like the Zimmerman/Martin case (at the beginning), there really is no sense getting into fights/arguments here when we really do not know the full facts.... just a sketch overview.

Lighten up.  Discussions are good, fights leading to hard feelings are not so good, esp. when driven by only assumptions and best guesses.

And I'll tell you what........... if all the facts were known and laid out for us, I'll bet most of us would then be in agreement on right and wrong in this... or most other cases.  

As a shyster, I spent many years only hearing my client's side at the beginning......... and guess what, more often than not, I definitely needed to hear the other side, and see all the evidence before I made any decisions or took any action.    

There's nothing quite so sobering as a client who swears it wasn't me, I wasn't even there, they got it all wrong, and later see the video of Mr client doing the deed.... in regular speed and slow motion.  Then play it for him, and ask him if he has an evil twin.    

[musclehead]

That's why I used "sometimes" reference and I'm glad Alph is here. I've learned from Alph but his posts on this subject freaked me out. We don't know the facts and Alph sayingsuch negative things without knowing kind of shook me.

Sorry Alph.

well, let me tell you what shocks me.  people that believe that killing a person because he is reacting to his daughter being injured.  that it's okay to kill someone because they throw a punch at you.  killiing someone just because you're afraid they're going to hirt you.  killing someone, just killing someone.  you "christians" use to preach "turn the other cheek".  now, it's shoot to kill.  

i was really freaked out when i saw T.P's original post saying "it's about time".  then read the article of a guy getting shot because he punched a guy (at that point he DID NOT know the guy was a cop).  people saying the child was "unsupervised" and that the father was irresponcable.  how do you know, you weren't there?  the child was with her 18 year old cousin and just happened to run out into the street, what 4 year old kid is ever able to be watched 100% of the time?  

what really freaks me out is that you guys call ME a "cop hater" because i WILL NOT take the side of a police officer having the right to shoot people as a defense.  you (Edit: name calling removed) just assume that the police comisioner is telling the 100% trueth in the matter, and that all cops are honest.  (get your head out of the sand (Edit: name calling removed), they're NOT)

why don't you guys put your self in the shoes of that father, put yourself in the shoes of that BLACK MAN and tell me if YOU would trust a white man when he say's "i'm a police officer" after he shoots you?  

i'm not black, but i have lived years in a racist town, and i will chose the side of the victom before i chose the side of the purputrator ANYDAY.

THERE ARE TWO SIDES TO EVERY STORY.  EXPAND YOUR ABILITY TO THINK OF OTHER SITUATIONS BEFORE YOU PULL OUT YOUR GUNS.

shame on all of you for passing judgement.  you are as guilty as anyone when it comes to killing or being prejudice.

TP, my advise to you is this; before you hit post, pre-read.

oh yeah, and for Trevon Martin, i believed he was murdered also. (bite me you (Edit: name calling removed))

i'm done with this subject.  

don't hold back, tell us what you really think

[saddlesore]

Alph, I have to point out some flaws in your logic.
The father didn't turn the other cheek when he attacked the officer. Does turning the other cheek only apply to the cop when he was being attacked?
A 4 yr old child, supervised or not will run into the street (cause) and if you can understand that why can't you understand that the cop hit her (effect)?  The article doesn't say the cop was speeding but you are assuming he was. Were you there ? How do you know?
You  always choose the side of the victim?  The cop was the victim, the father and the girls uncle were the perpetrators.   The cop was being attacked by two men, that makes  HIM the victim.
If the father turned the other cheek he'd still be alive
The cop identified himself as an officer, I didn't see anything in the article saying the officer was white.
I wasn't there,nor were you.  You accuse the cops of lying. How do you know? Where you there?
It seems you are guilty of everything you accuse the other people here of doing?
   

[texaninsouthfl]

I have three words for Alph. Therapy. Meds. Spell Check. (okay with "check" it's four words).

Seriously though... I have to agree with a number of others here who have stated that irrespective of what precipitated the event, if I were surrounded and being beaten and kicked by by two assailants who appeared to have every intention of causing me serious bodily harm or killing me, I would cursed well use every means at my disposal to prevent such... including drawing my legally carried weapon and using it. It has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that the man is a police officer and everything to do with legitimate self defense.

Alph, let's suppose for the sake of conversation that YOU were the rider who hit the child, even if you were at fault, would you just lay there and allow the father and uncle to just beat the crap out of you and maybe put you in a coma or kill you?  Even IF the the biker was at fault, it was still an accident and certainly doesn't justify the father and the uncle beating the snot out of him.

[T.P.]

That's why I used "sometimes" reference and I'm glad Alph is here. I've learned from Alph but his posts on this subject freaked me out. We don't know the facts and Alph sayingsuch negative things without knowing kind of shook me.

Sorry Alph.

well, let me tell you what shocks me.  people that believe that killing a person because he is reacting to his daughter being injured.  that it's okay to kill someone because they throw a punch at you.  killiing someone just because you're afraid they're going to hirt you.  killing someone, just killing someone.  you "christians" use to preach "turn the other cheek".  now, it's shoot to kill.  

i was really freaked out when i saw T.P's original post saying "it's about time".  then read the article of a guy getting shot because he punched a guy (at that point he DID NOT know the guy was a cop).  people saying the child was "unsupervised" and that the father was irresponcable.  how do you know, you weren't there?  the child was with her 18 year old cousin and just happened to run out into the street, what 4 year old kid is ever able to be watched 100% of the time?  

what really freaks me out is that you guys call ME a "cop hater" because i WILL NOT take the side of a police officer having the right to shoot people as a defense.  you (Edit: name calling removed) just assume that the police comisioner is telling the 100% trueth in the matter, and that all cops are honest.  (get your head out of the sand (Edit: name calling removed), they're NOT)

why don't you guys put your self in the shoes of that father, put yourself in the shoes of that BLACK MAN and tell me if YOU would trust a white man when he say's "i'm a police officer" after he shoots you?  

i'm not black, but i have lived years in a racist town, and i will chose the side of the victom before i chose the side of the purputrator ANYDAY.

THERE ARE TWO SIDES TO EVERY STORY.  EXPAND YOUR ABILITY TO THINK OF OTHER SITUATIONS BEFORE YOU PULL OUT YOUR GUNS.

shame on all of you for passing judgement.  you are as guilty as anyone when it comes to killing or being prejudice.

TP, my advise to you is this; before you hit post, pre-read.

oh yeah, and for Trevon Martin, i believed he was murdered also. (bite me you (Edit: name calling removed))

i'm done with this subject.  

don't hold back, tell us what you really think

alph
Full Member
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Posts: 128



   
   
What I like about the VOAI
« on: August 16, 2012, 11:28:00 AM »
   
Although this website doesn't get a lot of hits, I am pleased that the people that do visit this site keep the subject directed towards our common love the Valkyrie.  There are two things you NEVER discus with people, and they are religion and politics.  It is so refreshing to come to this site and not have to worry about either.

Let's not allow this website to become a gripe house of personal viewpoints and name calling.  Your view point will not be my view point and vice versa.  I will not agree with most of what people think and I am sure most of you will not agree with my own views.

I promise you this; I will NOT bring any political or religious views to this site nor will I partake in any discussion concerning them.

So, this being an election year, lets please keep the subjects to gas, car tires, types of oil and when to lube your spline!!



Al.

[texaninsouthfl]

"There are two things you NEVER discuss with people, and they are religion and politics. ..."

I disagree... as citizens, I believe that we SHOULD discuss difficult subjects that are important to the survival of our country. Refusal to speak out against bad ideas, bad politics and injustice, is to leave our fate in the hands of politicians and idiots.

Of course there are certain people with whom there is no "discussion"  possible.... in which case it's better to literally or figuratively shake one's head and just walk away.

[Jabba]

Even IF the the biker was at fault, it was still an accident and certainly doesn't justify the father and the uncle beating the snot out of him.

Do WE (all of us bikers) utilize this train of thought when a irresponsible texter kills a biker?  After all... it was just an accident.

Not that I think I know what really happened.  All I know is... if 2 guys are beating me, I would pull a gun to stop it.

I would not pull my gun, if I was not willing to kill someone at THAT moment.

Jabba

[Varmintmist]

Varmintmist
Member

Posts: 649


Western Pa


   Re: Off duty biker cop shoots a-hole
« Reply #46 on: Today at 04:29:29 AM » Quote  

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am ok with calling foul when a cop goes over the line.

This time, there isnt a foul with over use of force or privledge by a civilian with a badge who thinks hes Gods gift to laws that he doesnt respect. There was a opportunist baby daddy and a pal who wanted to do a beating.

There are 2 situations, 1 a accident, 2 a beating. Gotta tell you that if I have a accident and am 100% at fault, as was this cop,


What did you see in your crystal ball to see the Police Offcer 100% at fault?

He hit a pedestrian, a kid. He was not in control of his vehicle.He is 100% at fault. My father hit a kid who popped out between 2 cars in town 30 years ago, The driver is 100% at fault.

[Varmintmist]

Some of you are tying the 2 SEPERATE incidents together.

Driver hits kid, its his fault. Yep, it is a accident, but he is the person responsible.

Baby daddy and friend beat a driver. 2 people are committing a felony.

.......

This is NOTHING like a texting driver, or DUI driver killing someone. That is NOT a accident. Those people took a conscious decision to be unsafe and place others in danger when they broke out the phone or sat down at the bar.

[Valker]

[/quote]
He hit a pedestrian, a kid. He was not in control of his vehicle.He is 100% at fault. My father hit a kid who popped out between 2 cars in town 30 years ago, The driver is 100% at fault.
[/quote]

I totally disagree! If the kid was not in a marked crosswalk, the driver of any vehicle can only try to avoid. They are NOT liable unless they were committing a crime. I have 5 kids. As a Dad, I think it is MY responsibility to keep them from running out in traffic.

[RudyF6]

He hit a pedestrian, a kid. He was not in control of his vehicle.He is 100% at fault. My father hit a kid who popped out between 2 cars in town 30 years ago, The driver is 100% at fault.
[/quote]

I totally disagree! If the kid was not in a marked crosswalk, the driver of any vehicle can only try to avoid. They are NOT liable unless they were committing a crime. I have 5 kids. As a Dad, I think it is MY responsibility to keep them from running out in traffic.
[/quote]

Personal responsibility? There's a novel concept!