Gun control for kids

[fudgie]

I grew up around guns. We never had 'safes', just gun cabinets. Had 1st bb gun before kindergarden. 1st shotgun in 4th-5th grade. Dad always left the keys in it. We never had any horse play or shot anyone.

[Trynt]

Did the OP anywhere mention banning guns or blaming guns?  I didn't think so.  He was just curious about the culture of giving guns to very young children, and horrified by it's effects.  This thread immediately turned to bashing the OP and stating statistics about garage doors and automobiles and other bullshit knee-jerk "muh guns, muh freedom" posts.

Daddie O, you may want to pay attention to history and context before you go off half cocked (pun intended) as the self appointed patron (pun intended) of correct thinking.

As for posters being ridiculous, when you go into the ridiculing "muh guns, muh freedom" you don't come off as particularly bright.  Come to think of it, it has all the earmarks of just another not-so-well-thought-out bullshit knee-jerk post.

Don't let yourself be just another knee jerk.  

History has nothing to do with it.  The context is this thread.  Maybe you should start by reading the OP's post, and follow that by reading the responses.  See if they don't fit the "muh guns muh freedums" stereotype.  Nothing knee-jerk about it.  It is what it is.  If you can't see the OP was wondering if it is something to do with our culture that allows very young children have unsupervised access to guns, then I can't help you any more with reading comprehension.  If you can't see that his nationality was being attacked for either giving up freedoms or never having them in the first place, and then being accused of wanting to take all your guns from you, again I can't help you further with comprehension.  If you didn't see people start to make comparisons about gun deaths and deaths by garage doors and toilet plungers, then I could understand you being confused about why I would say some people are ridiculous.

Willow, I suggest you free your mind from blindly accepting right wing conspiracy as gospel truth, and then thinking that anyone who sees through the facade as not bright, or not having thought things through.  Patron of correct thinking?  Is that the pot calling the kettle black?  I think so after you tell me what I should do and what I should think.  Yes, I do ridicule the small minded individual that thinks the government is just pining to take away your right to bear arms, and sees every tragic death by a gun as ammunition for a "damn libruhl"  to take away his gun.  All the "damn libruhls hate muh guns" talk is such bullshit.  I am liberal, I own a gun.  Tens of millions of liberals own guns.  Matter of fact I seem to remember a little thing called "The Civil War" where the closed minded bigots of the south got their asses handed to them by progressive northerners with guns.

Daddie, The frequency at which those of your political slant, take solace in the belief that those who differ with them are ignorant, uneducated and or bigoted is very revealing.  After all, they would have to be so, to disagree with an individual of your omnipotence, right? I only know Willow from his posts on this board, but I assure you, he is in no need of any remediation you could possibly provide. Your hubris is very amusing indeed!

[musclehead]

Did the OP anywhere mention banning guns or blaming guns?  I didn't think so.  He was just curious about the culture of giving guns to very young children, and horrified by it's effects.  This thread immediately turned to bashing the OP and stating statistics about garage doors and automobiles and other bullshit knee-jerk "muh guns, muh freedom" posts.

Daddie O, you may want to pay attention to history and context before you go off half cocked (pun intended) as the self appointed patron (pun intended) of correct thinking.

As for posters being ridiculous, when you go into the ridiculing "muh guns, muh freedom" you don't come off as particularly bright.  Come to think of it, it has all the earmarks of just another not-so-well-thought-out bullshit knee-jerk post.

Don't let yourself be just another knee jerk.  

History has nothing to do with it.  The context is this thread.  Maybe you should start by reading the OP's post, and follow that by reading the responses.  See if they don't fit the "muh guns muh freedums" stereotype.  Nothing knee-jerk about it.  It is what it is.  If you can't see the OP was wondering if it is something to do with our culture that allows very young children have unsupervised access to guns, then I can't help you any more with reading comprehension.  If you can't see that his nationality was being attacked for either giving up freedoms or never having them in the first place, and then being accused of wanting to take all your guns from you, again I can't help you further with comprehension.  If you didn't see people start to make comparisons about gun deaths and deaths by garage doors and toilet plungers, then I could understand you being confused about why I would say some people are ridiculous.

Willow, I suggest you free your mind from blindly accepting right wing conspiracy as gospel truth, and then thinking that anyone who sees through the facade as not bright, or not having thought things through.  Patron of correct thinking?  Is that the pot calling the kettle black?  I think so after you tell me what I should do and what I should think.  Yes, I do ridicule the small minded individual that thinks the government is just pining to take away your right to bear arms, and sees every tragic death by a gun as ammunition for a "damn libruhl"  to take away his gun.  All the "damn libruhls hate muh guns" talk is such bullshit.  I am liberal, I own a gun.  Tens of millions of liberals own guns.  Matter of fact I seem to remember a little thing called "The Civil War" where the closed minded bigots of the south got their asses handed to them by progressive northerners with guns.

well I don't recall anyone on the right side of the aisle advocating a gunless populace. but I can provide you with dozens of qoutes from those on the left side. feel free to google that if you would then tell us "they" don't want "muh guns"

You know America has over 300 million people in it, and in that number I am sure there are some that think the America should be gunless.  Is it anything remotely close to a majority, or is it such a minority that it is laughable?  I mean really, look at the last attempt at gun control legislation.  It couldn't even pass the democratically controlled senate.  You really think they are close to passing laws to make our society gunless?  This is what I am talking about when I say right wing conspiracy theories.

no and I laugh at thier minority "HA!" but the sentiment exists and it is disturbing to me and others that they would take a tragedy and use it for poltical gain. are they close? no but they believe in incrementalism. today they fail, someday?

[Daddie O]

Willow, I can agree to disagree.  The south were conservative bigots, and the progressive north did win with guns, not handshakes and smiles.  People believe what they believe, and some are more open than others to modifying their beliefs than others when presented with new information.  People of course think what they believe is right or they wouldn't believe it.  It follows that people are inclined to think that someone who believes differently are either naive, less informed, or not as bright.  Over the internet this can be construed as a lack of respect.  Though I disagree with your positions, I don't think you are naive, uninformed, or "not bright".

[musclehead]

Willow, I can agree to disagree.  The south were conservative bigots, and the progressive north did win with guns, not handshakes and smiles.  People believe what they believe, and some are more open than others to modifying their beliefs than others when presented with new information.  People of course think what they believe is right or they wouldn't believe it.  It follows that people are inclined to think that someone who believes differently are either naive, less informed, or not as bright.  Over the internet this can be construed as a lack of respect.  Though I disagree with your positions, I don't think you are naive, uninformed, or "not bright".

the south lost to infrastructure more then guns by a 2 to 1 ratio. more rail, more industry, more everything. they kept the war going by much better military leadership. however Custer had the cojones to lead from the front and this lead to his over confidence at little big horn. I love history, the real history  which you have to dig for....

[IamGCW]

It seems Australian started a mini civil war.  

Gil

[Daddie O]

What I do find odd is that you are so anxious to protect groups of cells that aren't viable on their own, but I bet you are for the death penalty for living breathing human beings.  You aren't really pro-life if you believe in the death penalty are you?  You are actually just pro-birth, and anti-choice.  Typical right winger 

Really??  You are comparing a totally innocent fetus to a Murderer?  I would like to refrain from name calling but I believe "the left" thinks you are entitled to have your opinion, as long as it agrees with theirs, where as "the right" feels you are entitled to your opinion (no matter how wrong it is), just don't infringe upon my rights and force your opinion on me.  I fully support the second amendment, and I also support any one's choice to not bear arms, but DO NOT under ANY circumstance, try to infringe upon MY right as a LAW Abiding citizen to choose which arms I choose to bear.  Including AUTOMATIC.  There is no such thing as a FAIR fight where you or your loved ones lives are at stake. 

I was amused at not my POTUS's remarks concerning guns in Mexico coming from the US.  What a lying, slimy, deceitful, _____.  I cannot understand how he can make the remarks he did with a straight face.

A zygote, an embryo, a fetus are not people.  Comparing a group of cells that can't live on its own to a living breathing human being is silly.  That being said, it is my belief that a pregnant woman should try to bring these cells to full term if possible.  If she chooses not to, that is her choice with her own body and it is between her, her doctor, and her god.  We are a society, and as such together we makes laws.  We have elections.  Just because you don't agree with a law that doesn't make it not a law.  You can't own automatic weapons because we the people have decided you can't.  Same thing with grenades and nuclear weapons.  Just because you voted for someone else that doesn't mean who got elected isn't "your" president.  Show some respect for the office.  I didn't vote for Bush, but he was my president, and I wanted him to succeed for the good of us all.  So, he didn't work out so well.  He had many, many disastrous policies that I disagreed with but I did not call him names or claim he wasn't really my president.

[musclehead]

What I do find odd is that you are so anxious to protect groups of cells that aren't viable on their own, but I bet you are for the death penalty for living breathing human beings.  You aren't really pro-life if you believe in the death penalty are you?  You are actually just pro-birth, and anti-choice.  Typical right winger 

Really??  You are comparing a totally innocent fetus to a Murderer?  I would like to refrain from name calling but I believe "the left" thinks you are entitled to have your opinion, as long as it agrees with theirs, where as "the right" feels you are entitled to your opinion (no matter how wrong it is), just don't infringe upon my rights and force your opinion on me.  I fully support the second amendment, and I also support any one's choice to not bear arms, but DO NOT under ANY circumstance, try to infringe upon MY right as a LAW Abiding citizen to choose which arms I choose to bear.  Including AUTOMATIC.  There is no such thing as a FAIR fight where you or your loved ones lives are at stake. 

I was amused at not my POTUS's remarks concerning guns in Mexico coming from the US.  What a lying, slimy, deceitful, _____.  I cannot understand how he can make the remarks he did with a straight face.

A zygote, an embryo, a fetus are not people.  Comparing a group of cells that can't live on its own to a living breathing human being is silly.  That being said, it is my belief that a pregnant woman should try to bring these cells to full term if possible.  If she chooses not to, that is her choice with her own body and it is between her, her doctor, and her god.  We are a society, and as such together we makes laws.  We have elections.  Just because you don't agree with a law that doesn't make it not a law.  You can't own automatic weapons because we the people have decided you can't.  Same thing with grenades and nuclear weapons.  Just because you voted for someone else that doesn't mean who got elected isn't "your" president.  Show some respect for the office.  I didn't vote for Bush, but he was my president, and I wanted him to succeed for the good of us all.  So, he didn't work out so well.  He had many, many disastrous policies that I disagreed with but I did not call him names or claim he wasn't really my president.

when the president openly lies he brings dishonor on the office, he has lied at least twice I can point out. my problem is if you lie to me once, or even twice I pretty much dismiss everything coming out of your mouth as a lie. just the way I am.

[Serk]

It seems Australian started a mini civil war.  

Gil

There's nothing civil about war...

[Varmintmist]

Explanation:  Anyone who provides a 5 yr. old  (or 8 yr old IMHO) with access to a firearm is a complete and utter moron. Some people should not be allowed to breed, because there is no cure for stupidity.

Hunting and firearms training is available (in my state) at the age of 12.  At that age, some require smaller firearms appropriate to their stature.  AND. . . you are being sexist to think that girls don't or shouldn't use firearms because of their gender.

Good thing your moron state isnt the one making the rules. There is mentored youth hunting in PA so you can pretty much go hunting if you can pull a trigger. FYI, hunting has nothing to do with gun ownership.
My daughter had a Chipmunk at 6, the so wasnt ready until about 8. She has taken 5 buck with 5 shots in 5 years since 12 when she was able to get her hunting license. She also has a CMP competitor # and has competed with the M1 Garand. If that makes me stupid in your narrow mind, then bite me. This years buck.

This is what a 15 year old girl that can outshoot 80% of hunters looks like.
[IMG]http://i657.photobucket.com/albums/uu295/Varmintmist/th_Samgarand_zpsc6123988.jpg

Now, to the OP. You have less gun crime in AU, no kidding, you have less freedom. In your country you have about a  better chance of getting raped than here, you have a better chance of at home break ins, a LOT more assaults so on and so forth. Check your stats before you pull anecdotes.
The question you should be asking is "Why do the gun toting rednecks in the US have less overall violent crime?"

[Varmintmist]

the south lost to infrastructure more then guns by a 2 to 1 ratio. more rail, more industry, more everything. they kept the war going by much better military leadership. however Custer had the cojones to lead from the front and this lead to his over confidence at little big horn. I love history, the real history  which you have to dig for....

The south lost to infrastructure and kept the war going because the North, until Sherman, had just as bad of generals as the South.

Lee figured on rolling into PA like his daddy did when he took western PA during the first civil war (whiskey rebellion). Difference was daddy had 10000 federal troops against a couple hundred farmers when he invaded, so it didnt matter if he couldnt control his subordinates. R.E. got his butt kicked when he tried to pull the same thing Sherman did and cut the North in half and take the Philadelphia shipyards without the talent to do so.

[Trynt]

What I do find odd is that you are so anxious to protect groups of cells that aren't viable on their own, but I bet you are for the death penalty for living breathing human beings.  You aren't really pro-life if you believe in the death penalty are you?  You are actually just pro-birth, and anti-choice.  Typical right winger 

Really??  You are comparing a totally innocent fetus to a Murderer?  I would like to refrain from name calling but I believe "the left" thinks you are entitled to have your opinion, as long as it agrees with theirs, where as "the right" feels you are entitled to your opinion (no matter how wrong it is), just don't infringe upon my rights and force your opinion on me.  I fully support the second amendment, and I also support any one's choice to not bear arms, but DO NOT under ANY circumstance, try to infringe upon MY right as a LAW Abiding citizen to choose which arms I choose to bear.  Including AUTOMATIC.  There is no such thing as a FAIR fight where you or your loved ones lives are at stake. 

I was amused at not my POTUS's remarks concerning guns in Mexico coming from the US.  What a lying, slimy, deceitful, _____.  I cannot understand how he can make the remarks he did with a straight face.

A zygote, an embryo, a fetus are not people.  Comparing a group of cells that can't live on its own to a living breathing human being is silly.  That being said, it is my belief that a pregnant woman should try to bring these cells to full term if possible.  If she chooses not to, that is her choice with her own body and it is between her, her doctor, and her god.  We are a society, and as such together we makes laws.  We have elections.  Just because you don't agree with a law that doesn't make it not a law.  You can't own automatic weapons because we the people have decided you can't.  Same thing with grenades and nuclear weapons.  Just because you voted for someone else that doesn't mean who got elected isn't "your" president.  Show some respect for the office.  I didn't vote for Bush, but he was my president, and I wanted him to succeed for the good of us all.  So, he didn't work out so well.  He had many, many disastrous policies that I disagreed with but I did not call him names or claim he wasn't really my president.

Actually you can own fully auto weapons in some states. You just need a class 3 firearms license.

I'm pro -choice for the same reason I support the 2nd amendment --- its none of the government's G.D. business.  But consider this, on judgement day when you stand before your god (if there is one) try explaining to him/her that the entity you terminated was just a fetus and not a child to be, of your own creation, which you extinguished because of perceived inconvenience and unwanted responsibility. It is difficult envision a sympathetic response in that scenario.  But then again, if the atheists are right, no problem.  You will only need to deal with your conscious.

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

Did the OP anywhere mention banning guns or blaming guns?  I didn't think so.  He was just curious about the culture of giving guns to very young children, and horrified by it's effects.  This thread immediately turned to bashing the OP and stating statistics about garage doors and automobiles and other bullshit knee-jerk "muh guns, muh freedom" posts.

Obviously it was careless parents that left loaded weapons in easy reach of children that thought that guns were okay to play with.  I have never seen a gun convicted of murder or negligence.  I also don't think a 4 year old is mentally capable of responsible gun ownership.  In addition to losing their children, I think the parents should spend some time in jail for child endangerment, and negligence resulting in death.  Their felony convictions should make it illegal for such irresponsible parents to ever own guns again.

I'm assuming you mean me when you mention "bashing". I wasn't attempting to bash anyone. I've reread my post several times and I still don't see that I did. If the OP felt that I was then I hope he'll accept my apologies, it wasn't my intention.

Concerning kids and guns. I've raised four kids, all are good successful adults. Three are also parents, and I mean good parents.

I taught my kids about firearms starting as early as possible. At the same time that we taught them not to touch hot stoves, not to walk out in front of cars or into a bonfire we taught them not handle firearms without permission. Then, as they got older (no set age, kids mature at different rates) we taught them to responsibly handle firearms. I'm sure they had all shot firearms by the time they were 6 though, and probably well younger than that. I don't think any of them can remember when they first shot a gun. As a matter of fact, I don't think any of us in the family can remember a time before we had shot a gun. I know I can't.

Our kids all had firearms given to them by the time they were (I'm guessing here, around 10) and they started winter camping and hunting with me before that. For the most part, they kept their firearms locked in their own gun cabinet upstairs were they slept. They were taught that all firearms had to be unloaded before entering the house or tent as the case might be. They kept the cabinet locked not to protect their firearms from themselves (ha, what a ridiculous thought ) but to keep them out of the hands of friends whose parents might have done a crappy job of teaching them firearms safety.

I always thought it showed an amazing amount of idiocy on the part of some parents that although they taught their kids not steal keys and try to drive cars without permission (I truly hope there are no homes where kids are so poorly raised that parents have to hide their car keys) they didn't teach them not to touch firearms without permission.

Firearms are just a tool (a very fun, empowering tool) and for a parent to treat firearms as if they are some horrible mystery item is to create a curiosity in those kids that they might not be able to resist. This applies even more to handguns than it does to long guns. Anytime I'd buy a new gun when the boys were growing up, I'd take them out to shoot it with me. Handgun, rifle, muzzleloader, didn't matter. If they were strong enough to hold it up they got to shoot it. I say boys because my daughter didn't have much interest in firearms and still doesn't although her boys certainly do. She made sure they grew up just as her brothers did and I'm sure neither of her boys remembers the first time he shot a firearm either.

My main worry when it came to firearms was always how well my kids friends had been taught. My 2'nd worry was that they'd be over confident in the event we had an intruder and decide to take them out with a broadhead from their hunting bow instead of grabbing a firearm. That's only a partial jest, they did discuss it at length. I thought it was a horrible idea, it would have made the stairs slippery as hell. 

[Skinhead]

What I do find odd is that you are so anxious to protect groups of cells that aren't viable on their own, but I bet you are for the death penalty for living breathing human beings.  You aren't really pro-life if you believe in the death penalty are you?  You are actually just pro-birth, and anti-choice.  Typical right winger 

Really??  You are comparing a totally innocent fetus to a Murderer?  I would like to refrain from name calling but I believe "the left" thinks you are entitled to have your opinion, as long as it agrees with theirs, where as "the right" feels you are entitled to your opinion (no matter how wrong it is), just don't infringe upon my rights and force your opinion on me.  I fully support the second amendment, and I also support any one's choice to not bear arms, but DO NOT under ANY circumstance, try to infringe upon MY right as a LAW Abiding citizen to choose which arms I choose to bear.  Including AUTOMATIC.  There is no such thing as a FAIR fight where you or your loved ones lives are at stake. 

I was amused at not my POTUS's remarks concerning guns in Mexico coming from the US.  What a lying, slimy, deceitful, _____.  I cannot understand how he can make the remarks he did with a straight face.

A zygote, an embryo, a fetus are not people.  Comparing a group of cells that can't live on its own to a living breathing human being is silly.  That being said, it is my belief that a pregnant woman should try to bring these cells to full term if possible.  If she chooses not to, that is her choice with her own body and it is between her, her doctor, and her god.  We are a society, and as such together we makes laws.  We have elections.  Just because you don't agree with a law that doesn't make it not a law.  You can't own automatic weapons because we the people have decided you can't.  Same thing with grenades and nuclear weapons.  Just because you voted for someone else that doesn't mean who got elected isn't "your" president.  Show some respect for the office.  I didn't vote for Bush, but he was my president, and I wanted him to succeed for the good of us all.  So, he didn't work out so well.  He had many, many disastrous policies that I disagreed with but I did not call him names or claim he wasn't really my president.

I never said anything about taking away anyone's RIGHT to have an abortion (even though I don't personally consider it a right, you have proven my point).  Women are free to make that choice, I would not make it, but I will not infringe upon their choice.  Just like I don't want any one infringing on my rights and choices.  I was merely in disbelief that you would think that executing a convicted criminal was morally equivalent to murdering an unborn innocent fetus. 

As far as respecting the office of president, please don't lecture me, I have plenty of respect for the office, but NOT for the man currently in it.  I did not malign the office, I gave an accurate description of the POS that currently occupies it. 

[MAD6Gun]

As far as respecting the office of president, please don't lecture me, I have plenty of respect for the office, but NOT for the man currently in it.  I did not malign the office, I gave an accurate description of the POS that currently occupies it.

Could have not said it better myself Skinhead.

With that said. I was raised around guns as well as many here. I was shooting at a very young age. Was taught to respect guns and not to misuse them. We were taught rules before we were ever allowed pull a trigger. I am also a NRA Home Firearm Instructor as well as a NRA Endowment member.

  I have no kids of my own but my Fiance does. She has two boys age 23 and 20. Both were taught by their father safe gun handling. Anthony, the 23 year old lives with us and has a 4 year old girl. She spends weekends with us. Her father and I have talked about it and when the time is right we will teach her proper gun safety and handling. She will also get her own gun as well. A pink one of course (She loves pink). If anyone does not like that idea than that's just freeking tough. I could care less. I believe kids should be taught about guns because if they are not then they get curios and might go looking for them.......

[Daddie O]

Well the majority of people don't hold the same opinion of the President as you do.  I did hear for years how he was going to be voted out of office and what actually happened was he was re-elected, as well as gains in both the House and Senate for the Democratic party.  The Republican party further marginalizes itself daily.  I think it's gotten to around 20% or less of the population that will even identify themselves as Republicans.  Obama will go down as one of the best presidents in history, and one day we will likely see his face on our currency.    

Until then I offer you a toast with my favorite beverage:

[musclehead]

Well the majority of people don't hold the same opinion of the President as you do.  I did hear for years how he was going to be voted out of office and what actually happened was he was re-elected, as well as gains in both the House and Senate for the Democratic party.  The Republican party further marginalizes itself daily.  I think it's gotten to around 20% or less of the population that will even identify themselves as Republicans.  Obama will go down as one of the best presidents in history, and one day we will likely see his face on our currency.    

Until then I offer you a toast with my favorite beverage:

"Obama will go down as one of the best presidents in history"

Jimmy Carter anyone?

no doubt in the echo chamber where you get your info, and the history books written with a lefty view he will be. 

didn't see any huge numbers of Obamer bumper stickers before OR after the election. just a bunch of the country scratching thier heads collectively wondering how he cheated that much.

[Trynt]

  Obama will go down as one of the best presidents in history,

WOW! You actually believe that? That is fricking amazing!!

[Daddie O]

There are so many reasons that Obama is a great president that you don't need to be in an echo chamber to realize it, you just can't close your eyes, ears, and mind.  You have to be truly blind and in a right wing echo chamber to not see or hear the facts.  How about if I name a few to refresh your memory:

Health Care Reform.  Insurance companies can't impose lifetime limits on care, or kick you off your insurance when you are sick.  Insurance can't deny people coverage for pre-existing conditions.  I can keep my kids on my insurance till they are 25.  Women are no longer charged more for being women.

Bailout of the auto industry.  Against the advise of many, he was able to see how important the auto industry was to our economy and national pride.  The government loans helped keep GM afloat, and now they are in record profits.

Staving off another Great Depression.  Our economy was in steep decline, and spiraling downward fast.  Home values were plummeting, 401k's were tanking, and our economy was hemorrhaging jobs.  Home values are now on a steep rise, and I am no longer underwater.  The stock market has doubled in value and my 401k looks great again.  Our economy has added nearly 6.5 million private-sector jobs over 37 straight months.  In fact, my wife has had to alter her schedule at work in order to accommodate all the interviewing she has to do for the 90 new positions she needs to fill by next year.

Being an excellent Commander in Chief.  He has brought our troops home from Iraq, and created and accelerated our timetable for exiting Afghanistan.  He issued the order for the raid that killed Bin Laden.  He used drones to assist the Libyans in the overthrow of Ghaddafi without any American troops on the ground.  Pirates board an American ship, he sends seal team six to take care of business.  He sent a clear message to the world:  It doesn't matter if you are hiding in a hole in the ground (Saddam), or in a well protected compound in a country that is protecting you (Bin Laden).  You eff with us and we will get you, and you will die.

Obama has cut the deficit (by nearly 500 billion) and slowed spending to it's lowest levels in 50 years!
Here is a graph showing the annualized growth in spending of our recent presidents.  See if you can tell which party drastically increases spending and which party decreases it.



I think that's enough to digest for now, but if you need more examples I am happy to provide them.  Keep in mind that Obama accomplished all this with the fierce opposition of the Republican party.  The Republicans vowed to make him a one term president at all costs (we see they did not succeed).  The House passed the least amount of legislation ever, and the Senate had the most filibusters ever.  For the most part, Republicans aren't man (or women) enough to even debate bills.

 

[Willow]

Wow!  Just wow.

[RP#62]

Wow, it sounds like you are completely convinced.

-RP

[musclehead]

and of course obama is a great president for his vast economic failures, for inflation and devaluing or money so that it takes a lot more for the average man to buy gas and put food on the table.

obamacare is an economic growth killer, believe it or not, employers will have to drop full time employees to stay profitable.

he had to bail out all those union jobs, regardless wether or not we can afford it. (he campaigned on Bush being unpatriotic for spending so much)

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

our economy is spiraling downward, why are major retailers shedding stores and employees?

yep he whacked osama, that's about all I can get behind. if he's such a fabulous CIC then why did troop casualties nearly triple in the early years of his presidency? I'll tell you, stupid rules of engagement!  the military has little love for obama

[Xtracho]

It gets rather tedious when you're dealing with someone that has the popular view of historical events vs. the more accurate account of how they unfolded. I don't deny that there were bigots in the south, sure there were. But what you conveniently chose to ignore, or maybe you just don't know it anyhow, was that the north - progressive as you claim them to be -  subsidized slavery with millions upon millions of dollars spent purchasing raw materials (ie: cotton) from the south. Making sweeping claims that "southern bigots" lost to "progressive northerners with guns" is disingenuous exponentially. The notion that the North was not complicit in supporting slavery can only be explained as total ignorance of the facts. Further, after the federal government squashed the push towards nullification - in effect denying states rights - secession began. It was only after the North saw that its supplier of raw materials to industry was rebelling through secession did the issue of slavery become relevant to the war. Until that time, your so called "progressive northerners" were happy to cast a blind eye towards slavery; happy in the fact that the raw materials kept flowing into their factories uninterrupted.

Most of the misinformed live their entire lives thinking that the Civil War began, was fought, and ended all because of slavery. That is simply not the case. But if it fills a void; allowing you to thump your chest from a demographic standpoint then...Carry On! I've never been one to deny someone to continue on blissfully ignorant so they feel better about themselves.

History will certainly judge POTUS just as it has all others before him. And I'm sure it will not ignore him sitting idly by while his own ambassador to Libya was sodomized and murdered. Then apologizing to those that perpetrated this act of terrorism (words which POTUS refused to use for 10 days afterwards) and blaming the attack on a video. Historians will also catalog his conspiratorial shenanigans with Eric Holder to funnel weapons to Mexico. All leading up to his anti-american comments in that same country just a few days ago. And let's not forget his unabashed gall at using the parents and surviving children from Newtown as backdrops to fuel his gun control agenda. Bush was crucified in the media for using fleeting images of the Twin Towers in his re-election campaign. But that self-same media remained silent when POTUS paraded those parents and kids up on the stage as he put his signature on 26 executive orders.

Obamacare? His own Senate Majority Leader calls it a "train wreck". More than half the states have already refused to set up the exchanges required by the legislation. Parse it down to your own personal benefits if you wish. But that's just selfish and serves to do nothing more than give you a micro-cosmic view. Hardly a place to be to make such sweeping statements that this man will go down as one of the best presidents in history.

Your never ending condescension towards others members on this board -  along with an overdose of self-righteousness - have reached its limits with me.

I can only end with a famous quote from a very wise man - "California...the land of fruits and nuts...where every fruit is a little nutty and every nut is a little fruity" - Archie Bunker.

[Daddie O]

It gets rather tedious when you're dealing with someone that has the popular view of historical events vs. the more accurate account of how they unfolded. I don't deny that there were bigots in the south, sure there were. But what you conveniently chose to ignore, or maybe you just don't know it anyhow, was that the north - progressive as you claim them to be -  subsidized slavery with millions upon millions of dollars spent purchasing raw materials (ie: cotton) from the south. Making sweeping claims that "southern bigots" lost to "progressive northerners with guns" is disingenuous exponentially. The notion that the North was not complicit in supporting slavery can only be explained as total ignorance of the facts. Further, after the federal government squashed the push towards nullification - in effect denying states rights - secession began. It was only after the North saw that its supplier of raw materials to industry was rebelling through secession did the issue of slavery become relevant to the war. Until that time, your so called "progressive northerners" were happy to cast a blind eye towards slavery; happy in the fact that the raw materials kept flowing into their factories uninterrupted.

Most of the misinformed live their entire lives thinking that the Civil War began, was fought, and ended all because of slavery. That is simply not the case. But if it fills a void; allowing you to thump your chest from a demographic standpoint then...Carry On! I've never been one to deny someone to continue on blissfully ignorant so they feel better about themselves.

History will certainly judge POTUS just as it has all others before him. And I'm sure it will not ignore him sitting idly by while his own ambassador to Libya was sodomized and murdered. Then apologizing to those that perpetrated this act of terrorism (words which POTUS refused to use for 10 days afterwards) and blaming the attack on a video. Historians will also catalog his conspiratorial shenanigans with Eric Holder to funnel weapons to Mexico. All leading up to his anti-american comments in that same country just a few days ago. And let's not forget his unabashed gall at using the parents and surviving children from Newtown as backdrops to fuel his gun control agenda. Bush was crucified in the media for using fleeting images of the Twin Towers in his re-election campaign. But that self-same media remained silent when POTUS paraded those parents and kids up on the stage as he put his signature on 26 executive orders.

Obamacare? His own Senate Majority Leader calls it a "train wreck". More than half the states have already refused to set up the exchanges required by the legislation. Parse it down to your own personal benefits if you wish. But that's just selfish and serves to do nothing more than give you a micro-cosmic view. Hardly a place to be to make such sweeping statements that this man will go down as one of the best presidents in history.

Your never ending condescension towards others members on this board -  along with an overdose of self-righteousness - have reached its limits with me.

I can only end with a famous quote from a very wise man - "California...the land of fruits and nuts...where every fruit is a little nutty and every nut is a little fruity" - Archie Bunker.

Your games of extrapolation are transparent.  To accuse the north of complicity in slavery because they bought goods from the south is a stretch.  I suppose anyone who buys a diamond or chocolate is as much a slaver today?  Of course we know the Civil War was fought over more than slavery.  The bigoted south lost to progressive federalists from the north with guns.  To try to say no it was the northern bigots who lost to the southern progressives would be kind of silly don't you think? The idea that the progressives of today hate guns and just want them taken away is laughable at best.  This is the reason the Civil War was brought up by me, to further illustrate that progressives have always had guns and are quite skilled at using them too.

To say the POTUS sat idly by while an ambassador was sodomized and killed is not bending the truth, it is an out and out lie.  To say he apologized to terrorists is another lie.  To say he waited 10 days to call it terrorism is another lie.  In fact it is lie that bit Romney in the ass when he tried to spout it during a presidential debate.  These lies go beyond being misinformed, because it is common knowledge these are mistruths that have been debunked.  To continue to spout them as truths is willful libel.  Newsflash, lies do not bolster your points.

I'm sure you were in an uproar when President Reagan "sat idly by" as the US Embassy in Beirut was bombed and he did nothing at all.  Or when the Marine's barracks were bombed, and again he "sat idly by", until he eventually shelled some unoccupied hills hitting some dirt and rocks.  What about when our embassy in Kuwait was bombed, and again "he sat idly by" and the US military did nothing about it.  You must be applauding Reagan for rescuing William Buckley too, oh wait he didn't.  You see I doubt you hold conservative presidents to the same standards that you purport to hold Obama to.  I don't think Obama has done everything right.  I don't know a single progressive that thinks of Obama as a "messiah" as conservative talk radio seems to think we do.  There is much more work to be done, and it would be nice if there was some cooperation from the right, but we realize there won't be so we will plow anything through that we can through executive order.  That is one of the benefits of being elected as the chief executive.

Again your extrapolation that our president had a goal of funneling weapons to Mexico for the purpose of arming cartels is laughable.  Selling weapons to Iran and funneling the money to Nicaragua for weapons, truth.  Gall at using Newtown as a backdrop for gun control?  How about the gall of you not supporting background checks in the wake of yet another tragedy!  The parents supported it, the majority of the American people support it, but the NRA and it's stooges in the government don't support it.  Guns don't kill people, people kill people right?  That is why we need background checks on people.

Obamacare will go down in history as an amazing accomplishment for the benefit of our people.  Just as social security and medicare have.

You can bash California (and everyone in it) if you want, but I will remind you of how much California contributes to our country.  Music, fashion, movies, information technology, produce, and let's not leave out the fact that California gives more money to the federal government than any other state by a long shot.  Matter of fact there is only one conservative state in the top 9 federal contributors, Texas, which is soon to be a democratic state as well.  Maybe the conservative states should try to pay their own way for once, instead of take take taking from the "fruits and nuts" of California.

I know, I know, damn facts getting in the way of conservative arguments again.  Those pesky facts!  

My condescension has reached it's limits with you?  Don't let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya.     It seems condescension is intolerable when it is directed at you, yet you are fully capable of dishing it out huh?  Cry me a river.

[Xtracho]

Social Security - Modern day Ponzi Scheme at best. My father paid 92K into SSI over his lifetime and he never saw even half that before he died. Although SSI did send us a fat check of $240 for his funeral.

If you're going to deny that the North wasn't content to ignore slavery as long as the steady flow of raw goods was coming from the South, then there is no point in debating it. The notion that the North suddenly woke up one morning and realized that slavery was a bad thing is ridiculous. So much so that I get a chuckle just typing it on the screen. The North was all about control. Control over industry, control over economy, control over port facilities. And when the North saw that beginning to crumble with secession, even before Lincoln took office, slavery became the battle cry. Even after Dred Scott the outcry from the North was barely a whisper.

I suppose you're one that has bought into Obama's claim that "90% support universal background checks." Yet there is no source to cite for that number. Politics of emotion, nothing more. Just as his parading those grieving parents up on stage was nothing more than just another gimmick to stoke the emotions for an agenda he knew was on the road to failure before the engine even got warmed up. Funny thing, if those parents are so pro-gun control then why did Newtown vote to post armed security at their schools?

You can invoke previous administrations all you want to justify this dishrag in office. But hey, I suppose you also agreed that Boston was the result of "white conservative anti-tax" perps as was so eloquently alleged by Chris Matthews and others.

[Trynt]

[quote

[/quote]


 To say he waited 10 days to call it terrorism is another lie.  



[/quote]

9/12/12 Steve Croft/60 Min. interview which includes Obama's tacit admission that he refused to call the attack terrorism and (at that point) continued to do so.  

Obama suspects Libya attack targeted Americans

[Pappy!]

Well the majority of people don't hold the same opinion of the President as you do.  I did hear for years how he was going to be voted out of office and what actually happened was he was re-elected, as well as gains in both the House and Senate for the Democratic party.  The Republican party further marginalizes itself daily.  I think it's gotten to around 20% or less of the population that will even identify themselves as Republicans.  Obama will go down as one of the best presidents in history, and one day we will likely see his face on our currency.    

Until then I offer you a toast with my favorite beverage:

He won the majority of votes based on freebie programs for the most part. Promise those who do not want to work enough that they may continue not to work and you pretty much have a guaranteed voting base.
I believe that history will show this president as a pivotal president. The pivot point being the point at which the country took a very wrong turn.
Trouble is....what are the Libs gonna' do when they run out of money?
As far as the OP's post? I bet more kids die from swimming pools, car accidents, physical abuse, etc. than gunshots from siblings.
On your comment on fetus vs criminal?......only one of those had the capacity to make a choice.

[Skinhead]

Obama will go down as one of the best presidents in history, and one day we will likely see his face on our currency.    

Dude,  I simply MUST have the name of your tobacconist, and your pharmacist, cause what ever you are smoking and popping, I gotta get me some of that!   I smoked a a lot of reefer in my younger days, but I have never tripped on anything like you're doing.  HOW MUCH DOES THAT SH!T COST??  It MUST be unbelievably expensive!

Don't Bogart that stuff, dude.  Hook a brother up.


BTW - If Obama's face is EVER on any of our currency, I will take great pleasure in wiping my ass with it.

[Skinhead]

Here is more on the greatest presidents greatest administration.  I [sarcasm]TOTALLY[/sarcasm] believe every word that comes out of his mouth.

http://www.ijreview.com/2013/05/50193-explosive-details-from-benghazi-whistleblowers-revealed-by-issa/

[Trynt]

As long as we are talking about lies:

Democrat Rep. Stephen Lynch admits that the Benghazi Talking Points were completely false (May 5, 2013)

Democrat Rep. Stephen Lynch: Obama Admin Talking Points On Benghazi Were Absolutely False


How they were changed to obscure the truth:
http://www.weeklystandard.com/articles/benghazi-talking-points_720543.html

[musclehead]

Here is more on the greatest presidents greatest administration.  I [sarcasm]TOTALLY[/sarcasm] believe every word that comes out of his mouth.

http://www.ijreview.com/2013/05/50193-explosive-details-from-benghazi-whistleblowers-revealed-by-issa/

a few of the highlights, old data in some cases, some still really close to present.

[Jess from VA]

Carl likes to quote a line in Cool Hand Luke ....... saying it's your job don't make it right boss.

My quote from Luke is........... some people, you can never reach.

Once you realize that, conversing with them becomes rather a waste of time, and just provides them a platform to continue wasting your time.  (But have at if you enjoy the debate) 

[Skinhead]

My favorite:  "What we have here, is failure... to communicate."

[Jeff K]

'Zed's dead, baby. Zed's dead.'

[Xtracho]

Stooges? I think not.

2013 NRA Members' Meeting: Chris W. Cox

[musclehead]

Carl likes to quote a line in Cool Hand Luke ....... saying it's your job don't make it right boss.

My quote from Luke is........... some people, you can never reach.

Once you realize that, conversing with them becomes rather a waste of time, and just provides them a platform to continue wasting your time.  (But have at if you enjoy the debate) 

I do enjoy a good debate, however at this point I think daddie-o has been shouted down and this amounts to a drive by posting 

[Daddie O]

Carl likes to quote a line in Cool Hand Luke ....... saying it's your job don't make it right boss.

My quote from Luke is........... some people, you can never reach.

Once you realize that, conversing with them becomes rather a waste of time, and just provides them a platform to continue wasting your time.  (But have at if you enjoy the debate) 

I do enjoy a good debate, however at this point I think daddie-o has been shouted down and this amounts to a drive by posting 

Shouted down because I haven't posted since 5pm yesterday?  Shouting down is a pathetic strategy that tea baggers disrespectfully did at town hall debates.  I don't succumb to such juvenile tactics. 

I especially enjoyed the "Did Obama Inherit a Mess" jpeg.  We went from a AAA credit rating to a AA credit rating why?  Because republicans threatened to not pay back what they had borrowed.  Makes us seem untrustworthy.  Only a republican would think it okay to not pay back money they borrowed ( and boy oh boy do they loooove to borrow), a democrat is good for their debts.

Current unemployment, inheritied 7.8%?  Talk about taking a number out of context.  The unemployment rate was shooting up tremendously from the policies of George Bush.  In fact it had gone up from 4.5% on a steep incline where it peaked at over 10% within 9 months of Obama being elected.  The current rate?  7.6% unemployment and falling.  Another example of why Obama is a great president.

$1.81 gas?  Try $3.23 average in May of 2007.  The price of gas fell as soon as Obama was elected.  It has climbed back to $3.52 today, coming into the priciest time of year for gas.  So gas has gone up 29 cents a gallon in 6 years.  Pretty amazing!  Where is the $7/gallon gas that all the conservative fear mongers said would happen the day Obama was re-elected. 

10 trillion in debt turned to 15 trillion huh?  Lest you forget we were in a surplus and paying down our debt under Clinton.  Bush turned it into a 1.4 trillion dollar a year deficit that Obama inherited.  He cut spending drastically, but even if you turn 1.4 trillion deficit into a 975 billion dollar deficit you increase the deficit by 5 trillion over 5 years.  So to say he increased the deficit by 5 trillion is in one way accurate, but it makes sense when taken in context.  You think he could've walked in the door and cut the budget by 1.4 trillion dollars on day one?  Get real.

2 Wars into 3?  Try 2 wars into 1 war and soon into none.  Yet another reason Obama is such a great president.  You make this so easy!

Obama's policies increased the duration of unemployment benefits?  Excellent!  Another reason he is such a great president.  You see after Bush greedily destroyed our economy it takes some time to bring it back, especially when you have republicans voting against the Jobs Bill for political purposes so they can say but but we need more jobs, and please forget we voted against more jobs.

Annual Budget to no Annual Budget.  Refresh my memory, which branch of government is responsible for budgeting?  Oh, thats right, the Legislative Branch.  Is there a part of the legislative branch that refuses to pass a budget?  That's right, the republican controlled House of Representatives.  Yeah lets just blame the House's inability to pass a budget on Obama 

Darn all these dang facts!  They keep getting in the way of republican arguements!

[Valkorado]

Words spun with golden threads do not hide hate or hold truth.

[MarkT]

Like a pet.  I''m just watching this example of how a diehard liberal can jump though hoops to justify his pre-ordained conclusions. I'm thinking it's good to have his comments.  Helps me understand how my liberal daughter, recently brainwashed by acadamia, can do the same - but I don't have an insight into how she justifies her viewpoints.

I have a suggestion tho.  Maybe D-O can contact the Secret Service and ask if he can get permission to glue his lips to Obama's ass.  Might save him some time.

[bigguy]

Snell: Waking the dragon — How Feinstein fiddled while America burned

This guys say pretty well what I think, just a lot more eloquently.