Anyone have a similar experience after your parents passed away ? (Long Story)

[C908]

Sitting here on a cold winter day with a lot of thoughts going through my head. My father passed away 09/16/14 age 91 and mother passed 10/10/14 age 93. My father had terminal intestinal cancer and mother had advanced deminchia. I had a lot of problems with my father the last few months of his life. I have one older sister but we no longer speak to each other,that's another story. My dad was old school thinking the son should handle things. I had POA and I am also the Trustee and Administrator. My father was a person that liked being in control and always did what ever he wanted. I have worried for some time about him gambling money on stocks. He was a veteran so he delt primarily with USAA where he did most of his banking online. About 4 1/2 months berore my father passed he started showing signs of mental instability. At one point he was demanding the nursing home call the State Senator and the sheriff's department to get him out of the nursing home. He said he was going back home and was talking about taking my mother out of the nursing home to go home with him. I contacted his surgeon and primary doctor at which time they gave me letters saying he was no longer of sound mind. This is when things went from bad to worse. Even though I had POA and sent the doctors letters to USAA my father was able to convince USAA to revoke my POA. I had nothing but problems with USAA and they almost caused me to have a breakdown. My father had complete access to all of his stocks and some of the money. I was able to get some of the money wired into my local bank so I could continue paying the $8500.00 per month nursing home bills. I tried to explain to USAA that my father was 91 with terminal cancer on Hospice and taking morphine for pain. They still sided with him and basically would no longer talk to me. After my father passed I exercised my legal right as Trustee. Everything was joint so they had to let me close the accounts and sell the stock.I sent them a letter advising our business was concluded and I wanted no future contact with them. Now that tax time is about here I have to get my parents final tax return done. My father has been using Turbo Tax for the last number of years. I was finally able to find paper copies of 2012 & 2013 returns. I went to see a CPA yesterday and he looked over the returns. I was shocked when he said do you realize your father sold almost $350,000.00 worth of stock in 2012 ? I was only aware of about $21,000.00 at the time of his passing. I can not account for where the $350,000.00 went. I have contacted all other banks my father has done business with and everything is closed out. I spoke with Turbo Tax this morning and they thought I should send a letter to USAA. They said to make an inquiry as the Trustee requesting the entire stock history. According to them there is a 1099B form that discloses stock activity. With my past USAA dealings I can't see them being willing to help. As far as I am concerned they violated my POA. I actually found the letter USAA sent to my father confirming I had been revoked. I have the persons name responsible for me being revoked. I have thought about contacting an attorney in Kansas City that I used several years ago. The problem is this law firm is very good but very expensive. A part of me says forget about all the past and I should just move on. Another part of me doesn't want to let it go and I want answers. I guess down deep I am mad at my father because I feel once my mothers deminchia kicked in he took over her personal money. She was a hard worker and a saver where my father took chances and let money flow through his hands. It was for that reason my mother had her own personal money. They would have been married 69 years this March 5th. Sorry for rambling on, I appreciate comments from anyone that's been down a similar road. 

[Jess from VA]

C908, this is a pretty complicated problem (I don't envy you).  I never did any probate work.

I would be worried about a large tax liability in trying to close out your folks estate with recent large sales of stock.  If ownership was joint, you could be on the hook with the IRS.  

I think I would call USAA and ask for a supervisor (or go to a local office if there is one), and go thru the entire history (very politely).  It is usual for USAA to side with their veteran/depositor while he is alive.  But they are now deceased, and you had power of attorney (and joint ownership?).  Explain you are simply trying to tie everything up and need their help.  Strategy is to have them on your side, rather than as an adversary.  At least initially, do or say nothing to make them think you may take an adverse position against them.  I've been with USAA for decades and they are about as honest as you can find anywhere.

When dealing with multifaceted problems, try to break them up into bite size pieces.  Solve what you can, and clearly identify what you cannot. Each time you deal with someone, write down their name and number so you can have continuity of contacts. Then decide if you need an attorney, though I think you would be better served with a CPA.  Once you have retained counsel, everyone you deal with will be worried of adversarial issues (or lawsuits). Your attitude is not to go after people, you are just trying to close out a complicated probate estate.

With deadlines coming up in April, make sure you file for extensions if needed. 

[Michvalk]

I'd like to add, DO NOT TALK TO THE IRS WITHOUT AN ATTORNEY PRESENT.. If they call you do not answer questions over the phone, set up an appointment to go in and see them face to face , with your attorney present

[cookiedough]

Hire OSS, isn't he an attorney?   

Good advice on leaving IRS out of it entirely until ONLY when needed.

Ask to speak like said to higher up at USAA and see if they can help.

None of my business and don't need to divulge, but where did all that 350K or so go do you think?  Very odd, that is a huge amount of dough for most of us to just disappear.

I know it is too late and you tried, but wouldn't a drs. written note explaining he was mentally incompetent to handle affairs set in your POA before he died???  I think USAA overstepped their legal limits and you need to fight them, but talk to them nicely first from higher up mgr.    You should have every right as POA to get all information concerning your dad's funds. 

And here I thought I had issues when I found out 2 grand (of which I will let slide)  was given by my mom to my older brother to help put down on a loan on a pickup truck for his son.  I asked mom a few months later after it happened since I balance her checkbooks every few months (she only writes out 4-5 checks per month just basics is all) and she said they would pay her back, but will never happen.

Not looking forward to when my mom passes and have to deal with her belongings (tons of junk in the house sort of a pack rat).  I won't have money issues to deal with like you, or so I hope in case she has to go into assisted living, etc. since 4-5 grand per month is insanely high and will get her bankrupt and then have to sell the house as well, sure hope that does not happen, but could.

What will be worse is my mother in law, who is a ton richer than my mom (both dad's passing),  has high value (guessing 500K and over) stocks in AZ far, far away that her brother set her up with some investment company am sure making that investor rich as well charging insanely high fees.  I'm not a huge stock/bonds type of guy since not rich by any means having the means to put that kind of dough into 401k, etc. , but once she passes hopefully 20 years from now if lucky,  my wife has POA and will be getting those stock back to us.  But, what to do with them, who knows???  I'm not a spend thrift kind of guy, but a bigger house and storage in the country away from everyone would be nice but won't need that much once my kids are gone in 5-10 years.   Traveling is nice, but not a huge travel type of guy like my older neighbors going to AZ for the entire WI winters. 

[Oss]

the thing to do (and dont take this the wrong way I am not being judgmental)
is to seek your appointment as guardian or conservator of your parent's
assets as soon as the doctor will agree in writing to give you his affirmation

Once the cows and horses have left the barn you are where you are now

Jess is correct Neither I nor any attorney who is not also a CPA will touch a case before
knowing the name phone # and having communicated with said CPA as the liability
issues lead to malpractice issues in many cases

In a few words I would assume nothing.

SPEAK TO A CPA NOW.  Give her all the details so you can get your parameters of any taxes and tax returns up front.

Good luck and I am truly sorry for your loss.  Working in the same building where dad and I ran this law practice its like i feel him around many times.  It gets better only in that its more a dull ache than a sharp one most days.

[Pete]

It is very unfortunate that folks in the last few years of life will sometimes do something they would never do when thinking straight.

Sorry for your loss and good luck with what ever you decide to do.

In my case there was nothing I could do before or after.

[PAVALKER]

This sounds oddly familiar to a few points.  I don't think this is the first time USAA has pulled a POA. 

[C908]

Thanks for the comments guys, I spent a number of hours today looking over USAA online bank records. I have never been a stock person because I don't like risk. What I have found is it's very hard to really understand where the money is going. Between buying, selling and trading it is very confusing. After looking at three years worth of multiple investment accounts along with checking and savings I had a headache. I guess I'll do as the CPA said and wait for the 1099's to arrive. Once I get those I'll hopefully have a better idea what's going on. For me this isn't about recovering the money but more of just trying to figure out what my father did. Right now I'm just pretty made at my dad for all of his stock dealings.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Thanks for the comments guys, I spent a number of hours today looking over USAA online bank records. I have never been a stock person because I don't like risk. What I have found is it's very hard to really understand where the money is going. Between buying, selling and trading it is very confusing. After looking at three years worth of multiple investment accounts along with checking and savings I had a headache. I guess I'll do as the CPA said and wait for the 1099's to arrive. Once I get those I'll hopefully have a better idea what's going on. For me this isn't about recovering the money but more of just trying to figure out what my father did. Right now I'm just pretty made at my dad for all of his stock dealings.

No real reason to be mad at your Dad. It was his money to do with as he pleased. Now if somebody swindled it out of him that's a different story. I'm not comfortable trading 300 k worth of stocks either, but some are and some make BIG money doing it. Try to remember the good times you had with your Dad and not what he did with HIS money.

[WNGD]

Thanks for the comments guys, I spent a number of hours today looking over USAA online bank records. I have never been a stock person because I don't like risk. What I have found is it's very hard to really understand where the money is going. Between buying, selling and trading it is very confusing. After looking at three years worth of multiple investment accounts along with checking and savings I had a headache. I guess I'll do as the CPA said and wait for the 1099's to arrive. Once I get those I'll hopefully have a better idea what's going on. For me this isn't about recovering the money but more of just trying to figure out what my father did. Right now I'm just pretty made at my dad for all of his stock dealings.

Do not be mad at your Dad just because he was more of a risk taker (some might just say financially savvy) than you are. Where do you think most people of limited means, amass 350K or 3.5 million.....the stock market isnt evil nor all about risk; it put all my kids through university free.

I hope it all works out for you and you find where his money sits. It cant be sold and disappear. it was withdrawn as cash or invested elsewhere.

[J.Mencalice]

Whatever you do out there, DO NOT, DO NOT, DO NOT, let the Edward Jones Corporation of St. Louis, Missouri handle any of your estate planning/trust funds/wills that may be associated with any investments held by them belonging to you or your loved ones.                                                             

They will bleed you dry and you will receive NO meaningful communication from them when you ask
what the hell is going on?

My wife's family is being systematically drained of their father's/stepfather's/mother's funds and property to the tune of thousands of dollars over the past 16 months.

When the vultures are circling, you know that they are waiting to feed.  Problem is these days is that you just can't pick'em off when they land on the carcass.