A parent's right to decide.

[G-Man]

Just to clarify I am not Against vaccinating as I had them and my kids had them

I understand the tremendous cost of developing a drug or vaccine and it is not a
perfect system

But the government does not appear TO ME to be particularly interested in looking for scientific links to
substances that cause children to suffer needlessly in vaccines that are mandated and into finding
alternatives that are safe for kids

And I am not suggesting autism is caused by vaccines but the astronomical explosion of cases must be met and probed.  The autism spectrum is very broad and growing  Can it really be just its been missed all these years in people?   Is it environmental or what,  and how can we help these  children  we love develop to the best of their ability so they can lead meaningful (to them at least) lives

For instance  for almost a decade Now we have Monsanto forcing GMO corn out there,  Your beef is fed GMO  corn the month before slaughter unless certified free range organic   Its in your cereal etc,  MOST civilized countries ban it.   Stuff the body cant digest is not optimal  Does anyone really think your body
is meant to eat it?  Just like saccharine or nutrasweet   The government looks after what it wants and it aint us

Not the USA we are OWNED by big agribusiness plain and simple  Next they will try to get by the organic certifications just wait they are already working on it

Not the governments job to do this.  The government doesn't do research and development for any industry, they just regulate them.  Any drug that has been found to be detrimental to patients was found by the drug companies reporting to the FDA.  All trials conducted in the US are under strict regulation.  Adverse events are reported to the FDA by the drug companies (this is what I do specifically).  The FDA does not conduct their own studies, thank goodness.  They do, however, perform inspections of the drug companies and can shut them down or have them cease production of a drug if they find anything amiss. 

Also, it is not mandatory for doctors, pharmacists, or patients to report adverse events that patient's experience while marketed drugs, only those still in clinical trials.

[Serk]

I fear the further we get from the last generation to have first hand memories of the ravages of these diseases in wide spread circulation, the worse this is going to get. It's hard to understand the suffering of a disease you think you've conquered, and easy to think it won't come back now that it's been beaten for 50+ years.

[Oss]

I know what you do   

But the government pumps money into ALL kinds of research and grants into all kinds of projects

Congress allocates 3M to study a snail's mating habits and whether a rat likes to smoke Camels after
having lunch

They can fund grant studies for this stuff too.

[BradValk48237]

This is all a big kerfluffer started first by a Scientist that falsified his findings that SOME vaccines were the POSSIBLE cause of Autism in SOME children and then published them (his research has since been discredited and he committed suicide because of his lies) and then the Media and some "sorta" celebrities started saying that "VACCINES CAUSE AUTISM!!!!!!!!" and you shouldn't do it!!!!!! AHAHHAHHAAAGGHHHHH!!!!!   (Thanks Jenny McCarthy- who couldn't hold a job as a game show hostess...)

Now it that there is Aluminum and Mercury in some of them......  Guess what... you have more possible exposure to these things through canned tuna, salmon, and deodorant ... along with many other over the counter drugs.

Up until these things happen it was standard and assumed that you got your vaccinations to go to school

I worked in Medical Center and it was a common thing to have to get a bunch of kids in every year because they were late for there shot and couldn't go to school ti they were up to date.

Are there SOME kids for health reasons that should not have them??? Yes, of course..... but just one un vaccinated kid could cause people at risk to contract one of these viruses... especially newborns and young kids who have not been able to get theirs yet.....

And the Law in CAli says, if you do not want to get vaccinations for personal reasons.. fine... your kids can be home schooled and not go to public schools.... If you want a free education at public school, the price is vaccinations.

It just burns my ass that some people have not the common sense to see that vaccines are a good thing and the reason that an extra 10-13% (or more) of the people now living are here because of these vaccines.. Look at the child mortality rates and life span increases since modern Health, sanitary, and vaccinations started...... Shall i go on?!?!?!?  GRRRRRRR.

Another case of the media  and a few people blowing something out of proportion... maybe they should be fined /jailed for inciting alarm and unjust wastes of peoples time .....

I need to stop now.....

Brad

[G-Man]

A radio host, Mike Gallagher was railing against the California ruling.  He kept asking "How many kids in CA have died from measles in the last 10 years?"  When he finally divulged that the number was zero, he then went on to say that the number was zero even though some folks in CA are not vaccinating their kids.

Man, was he looking at things backwards!  I was yelling at the car radio.  The reason that no kids have died, was because of all the other millions of people who WERE vaccinated.  The masses help protect the few.  That's pretty much the whole point.  He also failed to see that with the ever increasing number of illegal immigrants and selfish parents, come an ever increasing population of those who are unvaccinated which tips the scales.  When the scales are tipped too far, we're gonna see a resurgence of all these diseases. 

[hubcapsc]

If you want a free education at public school,

... then you must be smoking something 

-Mike

[Willow]

... If you think that's socialism in action, you are correct; but if your kid dies of typhoid fever, then all bets are off and you'd have been happy for him/her to have be a little socialist and alive than to be so cursed independent and dead. 

Truthfully it is very, very easy to grant the right of parental and individual choice when folks fully agree with what we see as obviously good logic.  The real test comes when someone sees something differently than do we regardless of how good or bad we believe their logic to be.

I think the original post was about not so much whether the logic to have a child vaccinated was good or bad but whether it was right to jerk the decision out of parents' hands.  From there we arrive quickly at whether any individual has a right or responsibility to decide for himself or is it simply true that the wisdom of the majority is always correct?

Do keep in mind that it wasn't all that long ago that very wise people and the culture at large believed the best way to deal with some sickness was to intentionally bleed the victim.

I'm all for vaccinating my own children, all eight of them.  I'm not so enthusiastic about forcing other parents to kneel to my wisdom.

[Rams]

I think the original post was about not so much whether the logic to have a child vaccinated was good or bad but whether it was right to jerk the decision out of parents' hands.  From there we arrive quickly at whether any individual has a right or responsibility to decide for himself or is it simply true that the wisdom of the majority is always correct?

(SNIP)

I'm all for vaccinating my own children, all eight of them.  I'm not so enthusiastic about forcing other parents to kneel to my wisdom.

Carl,
Your are correct about my original post.    While I do support vaccinations, my own children had all the recommended vaccinations our doc told us about.   Thereby reducing, limiting or eliminating the  severity of known/common sicknesses of the time.    Using your words, I'm also not enthusiastic about forcing parents to have their children vaccinated.    By vaccinating my own children, there was some protection and/or reduced symptoms when they were exposed to those diseases.     I'm not about to demand my neighbor go have his kids stuck nor would I appreciate my neighbor demanding I do the same with my own children.

I also accept responsibility for the decisions I've made in my life and expect my neighbor to be held responsible for his/her decisions.    The problem is, in today's society, it's almost always someone else's fault.

[f6gal]

rememner thalidomide (not sure of spelling)
mothers told to smoke during pregnancy

What we think we know changes with time

Why is 1 in 90 kids now autistic  That to me is a better question

How to screen kids to see if they may have an allergic or other reaction to the components of a vaccine

How about requiring companies to disclose exactly what is in vaccines so a doctor and a parent can make an informed decision

Is mercury really necessary and is egg necessary in a vaccine?

Does anyone remember oral polio "vaccine"

The relationship between autism and vaccines has long since been debunked.  Andrew Wakefield perpetrated fraudulent studies; they have been retracted by both the publishers and fellow researchers.  Yet, the myth persists.  It's absurd not to vaccinate.  Anyone that had to experience the devastation wrought by now preventable diseases would be unable to fathom this debate.  
 
As a free society, our gut response is to rebuff government interference in our personal lives; rights to personal freedom are sacrosanct to Americans. Unfortunately, bigger issues loom.  The health of our society is largely dependent on protecting ourselves against infectious diseases.  Misconceptions and misinformation regarding vaccinations threaten some of our most effective weapons.  If we are to continue to reap the benefits of vaccinations, dispelling faulty perceptions is essential.  Restoring the public’s confidence in vaccinations may provide a greater effect on recommendation compliance than do government mandates.  

It is frightening to imagine that society’s re-education may come in the form of an up close and personal look at one of these endemic diseases.  Hopefully, it won’t be a catastrophic epidemic that brings us to our senses.  While voluntary vaccine compliance is preferable to prescriptive, we’re a long way from taking that leap.  

  

[G-Man]

I think the original post was about not so much whether the logic to have a child vaccinated was good or bad but whether it was right to jerk the decision out of parents' hands. 

Yes, however, I believe (my own personal belief) that parents who are against vaccinations are so due to the continued spewing of falsehoods and misinformation.  This is evident by the continual linking of autism with vaccinations by (otherwise) intelligent folks.  I can't recall this debate occurring with as much frequency 15-20-25 years ago.  I believe we wouldn't have the need to even think about taking the decision away from parents if the false information wasn't being perpetuated.

[Willow]

I think the original post was about not so much whether the logic to have a child vaccinated was good or bad but whether it was right to jerk the decision out of parents' hands.  

Yes, however, I believe (my own personal belief) that parents who are against vaccinations are so due to the continued spewing of falsehoods and misinformation.  This is evident by the continual linking of autism with vaccinations by (otherwise) intelligent folks.  I can't recall this debate occurring with as much frequency 15-20-25 years ago.  I believe we wouldn't have the need to even think about taking the decision away from parents if the false information wasn't being perpetuated.

I agree with you, G-man.  The well thinking and informed parent would not resist the application of good vaccines to their children.  The government's job is then to properly inform and properly sell rather than to remove the right of parents or individuals.

Then again, the validity of the vaccines wasn't the intent of the original topic, was it?

[Novavalker]

They should put micro chips in passports. No vaccine = no fly list.

[Serk]

They should put micro chips in passports. No vaccine = no fly list.

I understand where you're coming from, although I disagree with the premise of no vaccine no fly (Although many nations will turn you away at the border without proof of vaccination, I had to have special shots and proof of them when I went to Gabon in West Africa), US passports have had micro chips in them since August of 2007 (And Canadian passports have had chips in them since July 1st, 2013).

[Rams]

They should put micro chips in passports. No vaccine = no fly list.

I'd be surprised if that isn't already being done.    Microchips in passports.   Several years ago, I was involved and a confidential project where we were putting chips into packaging.    They (the company) was concerned that the average public consumer would not appreciate it knowing a person with a scanner could que them up and know their purchasing habits.    

[Serk]

They should put micro chips in passports. No vaccine = no fly list.

I'd be surprised if that isn't already being done.    Microchips in passports.   Several years ago, I was involved and a confidential project where we were putting chips into packaging.    They (the company) was concerned that the average public consumer would not appreciate it knowing a person with a scanner could que them up and know their purchasing habits.    

We're approaching Thread-Whiplash at this point but: