The Confederate flag is no longer flying over Fort Sumter.

[Bighead]

Good for you, LTD! Keep it flying.

And by the way....
http://patriotdepot.com/if-this-flag-offends-you-you-need-a-history-lesson-t-shirt/

Thanks Pappy!

[PAVALKER]

Me thinks it's just going to continue until a bubble bursts and there is another civil war.  

A few of you southern states need to start the succession process now so some of us northerners cane make arrangements to move.  I'm thinking Texas, South Carolina, Florida and such.  A change of climate might be good....LOL

[billyjakester]

After 40+ years of being 'northern by birth and SOUTHERN BY THE GRACE OF GOD' the Confedererate National Flag a.k.a Stars 'n Bars is very much about Southern heritage.  The Battle Flag of the Army of Northern Virginia (for those of you who actually know the difference) is NOT the confederate flag.  

If you're sooooo offended by the Confederate National Flag and its proud history...... does the phrase "Delta's ready when you are" ring a bell.  

[3fan4life]

NASCAR has now eliminated any and all references to the Confederate flag.
Might be nice if the good ol' boys (fans) boycotted the first race in Daytona to let them know.
Doubt it will happen.

It will be interesting to see how many Confederate flags are in the stands at Daytona even more so at Talladega.

I expect to see a SEA of Confederate Flags at Talledega.

I have never perceived the  Confederate Flag as a hate symbol.

I have always seen it as heritage and as a protest against an out of control Federal Government.

[trouthunterjohn]

What a bunch of drama queens!

Save some whining for when the illegals get amnesty, or when the scientists are right about climate change, or when ...

[Bighead]

What a bunch of drama queens!

Save some whining for when the illegals get amnesty, or when the scientists are right about climate change, or when ...

Or when the Government takes something that affects you? Sounds like a typical Liberal response.

[Patrick]

Freedom of speech for whom? Certainly not everyone.
I would be the 1st one to tackle some idiot trying to burn The American Flag.

You are correct it is not freedom of speech for everyone as they have done away with the south's
And why in the hell would you want to tackle someone burning the American Flag?

Would you stand by and let it be burned ?

[Dave Ritsema]

I am a "Northerner".

Textbook I suppose. Born and raised well north of the Mason-Dixon. I am also glad the North won the war. (See Northerner statement above.)

That being said I also recognize that the southern flag is a symbol of southern pride and heritage and I completely respect that. I do not feel that flag "divides" me from fine southern folk like Smokin Joe and his brethren that are some of the finest people I know and I do not believe that its significance to them identifies them as racist's.

I find it personally disturbing that the majority of the values I hold close to my heart are those that are no longer "acceptable" by society as the media seems to steer it. Christian, conservative, pro-gun, all things that I believed were the foundation of our great country now seem to be frowned upon.

I don't like it. I may not be able to do much of anything about it but I do know one thing, my core beliefs will not change, regardless of popular opinion.

The majority of lemmings in this nation that are led by the press didn't even know they were supposed to be "offended" by the confederate flag until two weeks ago when some idiot shot up a church and killed innocent people that were practicing their right to worship. I think it is very interesting to note that this very same church, rather than inciting riots and demanding change simply forgave the shooter and asked that people give their pain and outrage an outlet thru prayer  rather than generate more hate and division. It certainly gave me a pretty good glimpse of their moral fiber.

In my opinion this is definitely not a north vs. south thing,  I feel the same sense of outrage and disillusion of my government that surely many "Southerners" also feel. I just hope I am still not around to see it when our once great country comes crashing down, as it surely will if things continue on this downward spiral.

Rant Over.

Dave

 

[Serk]

I just hope I am still not around to see it when our once great country comes crashing down, as it surely will if things continue on this downward spiral.

Maybe I'm just being overly optimistic, but...

[Dave Ritsema]

I just hope I am still not around to see it when our once great country comes crashing down, as it surely will if things continue on this downward spiral.

Maybe I'm just being overly optimistic, but...

The only problem I have with that ideal is that there are plenty of us in the north that share your beliefs. 

[Smokinjoe-VRCCDS#0005]

I am a "Northerner".

Textbook I suppose. Born and raised well north of the Mason-Dixon. I am also glad the North won the war. (See Northerner statement above.)

That being said I also recognize that the southern flag is a symbol of southern pride and heritage and I completely respect that. I do not feel that flag "divides" me from fine southern folk like Smokin Joe and his brethren that are some of the finest people I know and I do not believe that its significance to them identifies them as racist's.

I find it personally disturbing that the majority of the values I hold close to my heart are those that are no longer "acceptable" by society as the media seems to steer it. Christian, conservative, pro-gun, all things that I believed were the foundation of our great country now seem to be frowned upon.

I don't like it. I may not be able to do much of anything about it but I do know one thing, my core beliefs will not change, regardless of popular opinion.

The majority of lemmings in this nation that are led by the press didn't even know they were supposed to be "offended" by the confederate flag until two weeks ago when some idiot shot up a church and killed innocent people that were practicing their right to worship. I think it is very interesting to note that this very same church, rather than inciting riots and demanding change simply forgave the shooter and asked that people give their pain and outrage an outlet thru prayer  rather than generate more hate and division. It certainly gave me a pretty good glimpse of their moral fiber.

In my opinion this is definitely not a north vs. south thing,  I feel the same sense of outrage and disillusion of my government that surely many "Southerners" also feel. I just hope I am still not around to see it when our once great country comes crashing down, as it surely will if things continue on this downward spiral.

Rant Over.

Dave

 

Well said Dave .... Thanks for sharing your thoughts ....   I agree with you 99 % right up to that " glad the North won " 

[Gavin_Sons]

I'm not so sure im glad the north won. Look what it got us. Obama, race baiters, everyone throwing around the racist card. If the south would have won yhere would be no Obama and im fine with that.

[Dad]

Most people here in Oklahoma see the civil war as being over the states rights to choose what is best for themselves. We can relate. The federal government is too strong. People in Ohio or California should not force us to live as they see fit. Unless something turns im afraid real bad times are ahead. I could be wrong because I didn't believe this country would ever elect a man with the name Barack Husain Obama. Proud to live in the only state where he failed to carry a single county in his elections.
It was about states rights people. I guess the shooter was a states rights extremist. By the way, Walmart will not put the stars and bars on a flag but they will put the the ISIS or a gay flag on one. I'm done with their ass too.

[Bighead]

Freedom of speech for whom? Certainly not everyone.
I would be the 1st one to tackle some idiot trying to burn The American Flag.

You are correct it is not freedom of speech for everyone as they have done away with the south's
And why in the hell would you want to tackle someone burning the American Flag?

Not at all, you missed the point if he thinks taking a flag from a part of AMERICAN history and representative of so many is ok why does he think burning the Stars and Stripes is wrong?
Seems like a double standard.
Should we do away with the flag from the Conch Republic? ie Key West? I have been there and it seemed about 75% gay and I may find that offensive.




Would you stand by and let it be burned ?

[Smokinjoe-VRCCDS#0005]

After 40+ years of being 'northern by birth and SOUTHERN BY THE GRACE OF GOD' the Confedererate National Flag a.k.a Stars 'n Bars is very much about Southern heritage.  The Battle Flag of the Army of Northern Virginia (for those of you who actually know the difference) is NOT the confederate flag.  

If you're sooooo offended by the Confederate National Flag and its proud history...... does the phrase "Delta's ready when you are" ring a bell.  

Stars And Bars   The Confederate Flag as Billy pointed out the shitstorm is over the Battle flag.

[Dave Ritsema]

 
[/quote]

Well said Dave .... Thanks for sharing your thoughts ....   I agree with you 99 % right up to that " glad the North won " 

[/quote]

Quite understandable Bro. 

[Patrick]

Freedom of speech for whom? Certainly not everyone.
I would be the 1st one to tackle some idiot trying to burn The American Flag.

You are correct it is not freedom of speech for everyone as they have done away with the south's
And why in the hell would you want to tackle someone burning the American Flag?

Not at all, you missed the point if he thinks taking a flag from a part of AMERICAN history and representative of so many is ok why does he think burning the Stars and Stripes is wrong?
Seems like a double standard.
Should we do away with the flag from the Conch Republic? ie Key West? I have been there and it seemed about 75% gay and I may find that offensive.




Would you stand by and let it be burned ?

OK, didn't take it that way.
I think most here know I'm a northerner, born and bred. Love the south and most of its people.
Conch Republic ? I'm glad they seceded and I like their flag. I think most know I spend the winters in the Keys/Key West. Key West is noted for their 'weird' life style and gays. It does seem like the population of gays makes up 75% even though its actually about 12%, but, thats neither here nor there.
I was about as homophobic as one could be when we first went there, now, after 16 winters I don't care. We have made friends with gays there, most you wouldn't even know were gay. The 'flamers' I still have a bit of a problem with.
As far as the confederate flag, I agree with most. I don't see a problem with it. 

[Bighead]

I was just referencing that flag as an example. Question is where does it stop? When everyone is brainwashed robots? Kool aid drinkers and follow every thing that the powers at be think is in our best interest?

[gjpaul1]

The flag stands for those who were in support of slavery and were willing to die for it.
As much as I think that freedom of choice should be respected, I still question why anyone would want to be associated with one of the darkest times in our nations history, when human beings were literally  treated like animals.
If you look at world history, our country was the absolute worse who treated their slaves with a brutality that, in some respects, still exists today exists in this country.
I wish my opinion were different, but isn't it time we all feel better about who we are as individuals, without having to identify with a flag?
We are all brothers and sisters looking for peace and prosperity. That's enough of a challenge by itself.

[Patrick]

I can't imagine anyone still thinking that slavery is alright.
Lincoln felt he had to keep the country together, I happen to agree with that.
I also happen to agree with anyone wanting to keep their heritage alive. I have no problem with the confederate flag used a symbol of tradition and pride in heritage. If it is used as a symbol of hate then I do have an issue.

All that said, since Lincoln has been brought up, to me, John Wilkes Booth was the greatest traitor this country has ever had. Had Lincoln lived this would be a different country. Just look into Lincoln's thoughts and his connection with Panama. Yep, he was a republican. Blacks at the time and especially black politicians of the time were republicans. I pretty much blame LBJ for the change, but, thats another story.

Also, the KKK was originally an organization of southern democrats that were against republican reconstruction and equal rights. It morphed twice into other organizations which included hatred of others, catholics, jews, etc. At one time in the 1920s the membership was as high as 6 million.

[Patrick]

The flag stands for those who were in support of slavery and were willing to die for it.
As much as I think that freedom of choice should be respected, I still question why anyone would want to be associated with one of the darkest times in our nations history, when human beings were literally  treated like animals.
If you look at world history, our country was the absolute worse who treated their slaves with a brutality that, in some respects, still exists today exists in this country.
I wish my opinion were different, but isn't it time we all feel better about who we are as individuals, without having to identify with a flag?
We are all brothers and sisters looking for peace and prosperity. That's enough of a challenge by itself.

Our country certainly wasn't the worst. We were late comers to the slavery thing and it ended before other countries.
Look into the real history of it in this country and I'm sure you'll be surprised. Indenture and slavery tend to be used as one and the same, ain't so. Come back and tell us who the first slave holder in this country was.
Was/is slavery wrong ? I'm sure most in this country would say yes, but, this world was a different place centuries ago.

[Bighead]

The flag stands for those who were in support of slavery and were willing to die for it.

Dead wrong.

[hubcapsc]

The flag stands for those who were in support of slavery and were willing to die for it.
As much as I think that freedom of choice should be respected, I still question why anyone would want to be associated with one of the darkest times in our nations history, when human beings were literally  treated like animals.
If you look at world history, our country was the absolute worse who treated their slaves with a brutality that, in some respects, still exists today exists in this country.
I wish my opinion were different, but isn't it time we all feel better about who we are as individuals, without having to identify with a flag?
We are all brothers and sisters looking for peace and prosperity. That's enough of a challenge by itself.

It is that gjpaul1, and so many others, have been so badly lied to that we are in
this situation.

gjpaul1, and many of the others like him, probably aren't bad people, they just have
bad information.

With almost nothing in his post that is true, I'll just touch on the part about brutality...

The slave trade brought slaves to North and South America and the Caribbean.

The slave mortality in Brazil, for example, required regular replenishment through
the trans-atlantic slave trade. "The Abolition of the Brazilian Slave Trade", a recent
Cambridge University Press book, is one good place to read about this.

On the other hand, the slave trade was abolished in the US in 1808, yet the population
of slaves exploded between then and 1860.

Four million slaves occupied the South during the war, watched over by old men
and children. Less than 200,000 joined the Union war effort as USCT, the rest followed
their masters to war, brought their master's bodies back from the war, and kept on
doing their jobs. Many planters were true Christians, and managed their slaves as
guided by The Bible. It is also easy to find counter examples, a good read is " Journal
of a Residence on a Georgian Plantation in 1838-1839." by Fanny Kemble...

-Mike

[LTD]

These are interesting times Gay Marriage, and the Confederate flag are more important in the news than 100 million Americans who cant find work.  America slides into oblivion as the Kardashians, and Caitlyn Jenner continue to make headlines.  What the hell happened to the country?

[Rams]

The Stars and Bars won't be on one of the original General Lee's much longer.

So much for collector value.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/sp...neral-lee/ar-AAcuM5h

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

As a Northerner I can say I don't understand how people can suddenly be offended by the Confederate flag. No one is calling for the destruction of Egyptian pyramids because they were built with slave labor. This is just more of the racial hatred the first couple have done their best to resurrect.

As far as the outcome of the civil war, the war was not about slavery, it was about the right of succession. I don't believe the war should have ever been fought. If states wanted to secede from the union they should have been allowed to do so. We can only hope a few of the modern anti-freedom states will decide to leave the union. Just not sure what they would do when they run out of other peoples moneyl

[Rams]

We can only hope a few of the modern anti-freedom states will decide to leave the union. Just not sure what they would do when they run out of other peoples moneyl

Speaking of California.    Oh, never mind.   I don't want to hi-jack this thread.   

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

We can only hope a few of the modern anti-freedom states will decide to leave the union. Just not sure what they would do when they run out of other peoples moneyl

Speaking of California.    Oh, never mind.   I don't want to hi-jack this thread.   

 

[Bighead]

As a Northerner I can say I don't understand how people can suddenly be offended by the Confederate flag.

As far as tthe civil war, the war was not about slavery, it was about the right of succession. I don't believe the war should have ever been fought. If states wanted to secede from the union they should have been allowed to do so.

One of the most thought out post to date

[signart]

Oh, I wish I was in the land of cotton,
Old times there are not forgotten,
Look away, look away, look away, Dixie Land.
In Dixie Land, where I was born in,
Early on one frosty morning',
Look away, look away, look away, Dixie Land.

I wish I was in Dixie, Hooray! Hooray!
In Dixie Land I'll take my stand,
To live and die in Dixie,
Away, away, away down south in Dixie,
Away, away, away down south in Dixie!

[Oss]

I was born in the south      bronx

does that count

[specialdose]

    Reckon how many of the knuckle heads wanting to erase all southern heritage as our flags and monuments know that the most sacred and hallowed ground in the USA was owned by Robert E Lees wife,Mary, a slave owner.  What will these nut bags be demanding next, that we dig up all our troops and move their remains else where. This pc crap has got to end. As posted by LTD we have far more pressing matters than this. On a positive note on this insanity here at home Stone Mountain will not be giving in to the pc crowd. Bill Stephens, chief executive officer of the Stone Mountain Memorial Association said the park's Flag Terrace, where multiple versions of Confederate flags fly, was donated by the United Daughters of the Confederacy in 1964. He said it's considered a memorial and, as such, can't be removed or relocated under Georgia law. Good on that.

[Davemn]

Minnesota, hail to thee!
Hail to thee our state so dear!
Thy light shall ever be
A beacon bright and clear.
Thy sons and daughters true
Will proclaim thee near and far.
They shall guard thy fame
And adore thy name;
Thou shalt be their Northern Star.

Like the stream that bends to sea,
Like the pine that seeks the blue,
Minnesota, still for thee,
Thy sons are strong and true.
From thy woods and waters fair,
From thy prairies waving far,
At thy call they throng,
With their shout and song,
Hailing thee their Northern Star.

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

I guess all these song lyrics show the need for a little Indiana PoDunk music. This is a local band from the Bloomington/Brown County area. Have to admit they are growing on me.
Open the door but shut the screen.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSbtL5QAQrg

[rocketray]

the shooter said he did it because of all the white women being raped by black men---FBI statistics show some 14,000 white men have raped by black men yearly and no black woman have been raped by white males--google it---black on white crime is 40X higher than the opposite--it is all about the beat down of the european male in this country --google who owns the media in the U.S.--It is all very sad

[The emperor has no clothes]

the shooter said he did it because of all the white women being raped by black men---FBI statistics show some 14,000 white men have raped by black men yearly and no black woman have been raped by white males--google it---black on white crime is 40X higher than the opposite--it is all about the beat down of the european male in this country --google who owns the media in the U.S.--It is all very sad

[Bighead]

the shooter said he did it because of all the white women being raped by black men---FBI statistics show some 14,000 white men have raped by black men yearly and no black woman have been raped by white males--google it---black on white crime is 40X higher than the opposite--it is all about the beat down of the european male in this country --google who owns the media in the U.S.--It is all very sad

He meathead we agree on something else
Even if true it has ZERO to do with the topic at hand.

[signart]

Oh, I wish I was in the land of cotton,
Old times there are not forgotten,
Look away, look away, look away, Dixie Land.
In Dixie Land, where I was born in,
Early on one frosty morning',
Look away, look away, look away, Dixie Land.

I wish I was in Dixie, Hooray! Hooray!
In Dixie Land I'll take my stand,
To live and die in Dixie,
Away, away, away down south in Dixie,
Away, away, away down south in Dixie!

Daniel Decatur Emmit, a northerner, wrote Dixie. The song premiered the song in New York city at Bryant's Minstral Show in 1859. Pres. Lincoln included the song Dixie among his favorites. Sounds like someone else that was for something, before he was against it, didn't know what he was doing, and made a mess of it.

[Willow]

... Pres. Lincoln included the song Dixie among his favorites. Sounds like someone else that was for something, before he was against it, didn't know what he was doing, and made a mess of it.

Sounds like your knowledge of history is as skewed as some others on here have been and I have noticed the extreme skewing has been on both sides of this discussion.

Abraham Lincoln was never against the South.  Abe was born and spent much of his formative years in Southern culture.  He was devoted to keeping the U. S. of A. as one nation and that was his motivation for the position he took from 1861 to 1865.  Abraham Lincoln insisted that no punishment or other imposed repercussions be put upon the South as the war drew to an end and it was obvious the Union would prevail.  John W. Booth did a great disservice to the South by killing the one man that would have protected them from what became the very destructive years of "reconstruction" after the end of the War between the States.   

[hubcapsc]

... Pres. Lincoln included the song Dixie among his favorites. Sounds like someone else that was for something, before he was against it, didn't know what he was doing, and made a mess of it.

Sounds like your knowledge of history is as skewed as some others on here have been and I have noticed the extreme skewing has been on both sides of this discussion.

Abraham Lincoln was never against the South.  Abe was born and spent much of his formative years in Southern culture.  He was devoted to keeping the U. S. of A. as one nation and that was his motivation for the position he took from 1861 to 1865.  Abraham Lincoln insisted that no punishment or other imposed repercussions be put upon the South as the war drew to an end and it was obvious the Union would prevail.  John W. Booth did a great disservice to the South by killing the one man that would have protected them from what became the very destructive years of "reconstruction" after the end of the War between the States.   

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dahlgren_Affair