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Author Topic: Vets: If THIS doesn't make your blood boil...another Obama gun grab  (Read 669 times)
MarkT
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« on: July 08, 2015, 09:30:01 AM »

Vets told they can 'buy back' 2nd Amendment rights
'This is illegal and is called extortion'


A legal team investigating the Obama administration’s order that certain American military veterans deemed “incompetent” give up their weapons says the problem is worse than expected.

People who live with veterans now are being ordered not to possess a gun, and some veterans are told they can “buy back” their Second Amendment rights by giving up their veterans’ benefits.

“This is simply unbelievable, On the one hand the [Veterans Administration] and the FBI have found veterans to be mentally ill and too dangerous to be allowed to own firearms, while on the other hand allowing these allegedly dangerous people to buy their firearms rights back,” wrote Michael Connelly, executive director of the United States Justice Foundation in a report.

“This is illegal and is called extortion.”

The organization has been looking into claims by a number of veterans and their family members.

The veterans were sent a letter telling them they were being classified as incompetent and the government was assigning someone to help them handle their benefits and payments.

The story of Vietnam, from Gen. Patrick Brady, one of the nation’s Medal of Honor recipients, in “Dead Men Flying.”

Consequently, they were told, they could no longer own weapons, under penalty of fines and jail time.

The problem was that the veterans were being determined guilty without a hearing regarding the potential loss of their constitutional rights, USJF said at the time.

WND broke the story that the Obama administration insisted it was routine for officials to send out letters informing veterans that an unidentified “report” indicated they may be declared incompetent and consequently stripped of their Second Amendment rights.

It’s the same administration that in 2009 warned that “returning veterans possess combat skills and experience that are attractive to rightwing extremists.”

The 2009 report from the Department of Homeland Security was called “Rightwing Extremism: Current Economic and Political Climate Fueling Resurgence in Radicalization and Recruitment.” It also said Obama’s governmental managers were “concerned that rightwing extremists will attempt to recruit and radicalize returning veterans in order to boost their violent capabilities.”

So when hundreds, perhaps thousands, of veterans began receiving letters like the one dispatched from the Portland, Oregon, office of the Department of Veterans Affairs, alarm bells went off.

In the recent report, Connelly explainedhe’s uncovered so far “a coordinated effort by multiple federal agencies to disarm the American people.”

He cited the tactic of sending letters to veterans about being appointed a “fiduciary” and the resulting loss of constitutional rights.

“As we have gotten more aggressive in representing individual veterans to defend their constitutional rights the VA has adopted additional tactics against our American heroes,” the report said. “Some veterans have never gotten any letter or official notification from the VA. They find out they are on the NCIS list [of people banned from having weapons] when they try to purchase a firearm.

“Often they can’t even find out why they are on the list.”

Or veterans are told they are incompetent and can appeal the decision.

“But [they] are being told that if they do defy the government and appeal, their benefit payments can be suspended for the duration of the appeal, which can drag on for years,” the report said.

“The families of veterans are also [being] told that since they live with a veteran who has been declared incompetent they can’t own or purchase firearms.”

Or there’s that option to give up benefits, the report said.

And it’s expanding. Seniors on Medicare, some dental patients and even children seeing pediatricians have been questioned about firearm ownership.

Medical records are being passed from the Department of Health and Human Services to the FBI “of anyone who has ever told their physician they were feeling depressed, even if never treated, and anyone who has taken certain drugs for things like PTSD, ADD, or ADHD, among others.”

And, the report said the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms is adding regulations that ban from owning weapons anyone who ever was “examined by a psychiatrist or psychologist,” a routine part of many family court cases.

“What is next? Will you have to surrender your firearms to keep your Social Security, or to stay on Medicare? Will you have to certify that neither you nor any of you[r] employees own firearms in order to get a contract with the federal government?”

The door to the dispute opened when USJF received a copy of a letter to a veteran from the Portland VA Medical Center several years ago.

The letter warned the vet that “evidence indicates that you are not able to handle your VA benefit payments because of a physical or mental condition.”

“We propose to rate you incompetent for VA purposes. This means we must decide if you are able to handle your VA benefit payments. We will base our decision on all the evidence we already have including any other evidence you sent to us.”

The VA also warned: “A determination of incompetency will prohibit you from purchasing, possessing, receiving, or transporting a firearm or ammunition. If you knowingly violate any of these prohibitions, you may be fined, imprisoned, or both.”

The letter was signed by K. Kalama, Veterans Service Center manager in the Oregon Department of Veterans Affairs. But it didn’t present the “evidence,” the source of the evidence or why the veteran’s competency even was questioned.

At the time, WND contacted the Department of Veterans Affairs, and spokesman Randy Noller responded with a statement that the letters were no more than routine. But questions about why the letters are being sent, what evidence is used to determine a veteran is incapable of managing his or her affairs, who provides that information and why it is provided remain unanswered.

“The Department of Veterans Affairs’ policy to inform veterans of their rights regarding the Brady Act has not changed,” the statement said. “As has been policy for multiple administrations, VA acts in accordance with federal law and works with the Department of Justice to properly maintain the NCIS database. VA notifies any veteran who may be deemed by VA to be mentally incapable of managing his or her own funds of the opportunity to contest this determination and also to seek relief from the reporting requirements under the Brady Act, as required by law.”

Also unanswered was who makes the decision to put in motion the department’s decision to “deem” veterans “mentally incapable.”

Connelly noted the letter “provides no specifics on the reasons for the proposed finding of incompetency; just that is based on a determination by someone in the VA.”

“In every state in the United States no one can be declared incompetent to administer their own affairs without due process of law and that usually requires a judicial hearing with evidence being offered to prove to a judge that the person is indeed incompetent,” he explained.

“This is a requirement of the Fifth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution that states that no person shall ‘be deprived of life, liberty, or property without due process of law.”


Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2015/06/vets-told-they-can-buy-back-2nd-amendment-rights/#5ek7GDfSYYMFdlUw.99
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czuch
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« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2015, 09:37:13 AM »

And it begins,,,,,,that coup, which is already in place.
Chip, Chip, Chip.
This is actually a few weeks old.
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solo1
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« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2015, 10:30:55 AM »

The American Legion mag had something on this.  A question was asked the AL adviser.  Here's the answer.

If the VA determines that a vet is incompetent to handle his financial affairs, the VA is supposed to notify the FBI ( because of the Brady Act) and the FBI will put that vet on the no buy list for firearms.

Unbelievable!  The Va makes the decision based on FINANCIAL ability.

I went for my annual VA checkup today and they asked me twice whether I felt that I might be depressed or confused. leading questions.

Our government of the government, by the government, and for the government.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2015, 10:37:02 AM by solo1 » Logged

Serk
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« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2015, 10:33:00 AM »

When they put forth "common sense" gun "safety" legislation for things like "Making sure people with mental problems" can't buy or own a gun, remember this... Once they get that, then it's a game of moving the goalposts as to what exactly "mental problems" means until all of us are declared unfit to own firearms...

I'm pretty sure I'd be declared mentally "unfit" for overuse of quotation marks, for instance... Wink
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Jess from VA
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« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2015, 12:25:36 PM »

I have some experience with this and Wayne has it right; the finding of incompetency at issue here is financial.  Many veterans based on age, disability, alcoholism, etc would wander off and spend their whole check (or give it away), or drink it up and have nothing left to live and eat on.  Most times, the issue is raised by custodial parents or wives or adult children (of necessity) and purely in the veteran's own best interest, to keep him from having access to his VA benefit checks which are generally barely enough to feed, clothe and house someone, let alone provide him with drugs, alcohol, and gambling money.  

Degree of mental disability (and diagnosis) is a different issue.  A veteran with a 30% evaluation for PTSD is moderately impaired and may be on some modest meds and getting counseling, but that does not mean he is incompetent to own and shoot firearms.  A veteran with a 100% evaluation for schizophrenia on major meds with constant voices and hallucinations should probably not have access to firearms.  But this should have nothing to do with the rights of any custodial persons; just like children, it is up to custodians to exercise all care necessary to ensure impaired people cannot access firearms.

Both financial incompetency and degree of psychiatric disability can result in a veteran's loss of firearm rights.  And in some cases it should.  But.....

The real issue is that the firearms issue should be treated as a stand alone issue, with full due process rights and right to a hearing, and an individual case-by-case adjudication/decision, and not just automatically bootsrapping it onto an adverse competency determination (as the whitehouse would like).  

With Zerocare, the goal of having a national medical record database, adding firearm related questions to as many medical and insurance questionnaires as possible, and things like this happening, it would be a cold day in hell before I ever sought any kind of counseling or treatment for anxiety or depression or anything else, let alone filing a claim for it under VA or Social Security disability.  

I just ride motorcycles, talk on motorcycle forums and shoot guns to cure my ailments.  Cool
« Last Edit: July 08, 2015, 12:33:50 PM by Jess from VA » Logged
Willow
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« Reply #5 on: July 08, 2015, 12:29:49 PM »

When they put forth "common sense" gun "safety" legislation for things like "Making sure people with mental problems" can't buy or own a gun, remember this... Once they get that, then it's a game of moving the goalposts as to what exactly "mental problems" means until all of us are declared unfit to own firearms... 

Pay attention to this!  ^

I don't recall the second amendment including an exclusion for those who are mentally unacceptable for the right.   Roll Eyes
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Jess from VA
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« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2015, 12:45:15 PM »

Or how about a 30yo simple (misdemeanor) assault conviction for pushing your wife back down in her chair one time (to prevent her from throwing more dishes at you)?

You just plead guilty because you were told it was no big deal and the fine was $50. 
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BF
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« Reply #7 on: July 08, 2015, 01:08:32 PM »

Liberalism is a mental disorder.  They all should have qualify to have to buy back their rights. 
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czuch
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« Reply #8 on: July 08, 2015, 01:23:46 PM »

Because so many Veterans are involved in this kind of related crime.
They fear the Vets most.
 The little miscreants will still pass the background checks, (jared laughner/Gabby Giffords), and the guilt ridden fathers, as they try to form a bond,  will still buy for the little pukes that end up shooting up Churches.
Yup, target the Vets.
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Xtracho
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« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2015, 01:47:30 PM »

You have to give it to these scumbags like Obama, Holder, Lynch, ad nauseam. They have had their asses kicked in Congress over gun control, they've had their asses handed to them at the ballot box over gun control, the courts have rebuffed them at every turn. And now they are attacking from another angle to enact their end game of universal registration to lead to confiscation. They are relentless, stooping to lows never before seen. It's just more proof that these slimebags, and the people that support & vote for them, will stop at nothing to reach their goal of total disarmament of the citizenry.

And Serk's observation is spot on. Once they get a foot hold in denying 2A rights for "mental problems", it's just a simple matter of redefining the term to make it into a sweeping generalization.
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solo1
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« Reply #10 on: July 08, 2015, 03:08:36 PM »

And to think that James Madison illustrated the reason for the 2nd amendment in the 46th Federalist paper.......................................but times have changed.
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« Reply #11 on: July 08, 2015, 03:10:40 PM »

Lets hold back all the paychecks, pension and medical benefits of all members of Congress, the Executive branch and Supreme Court until all this gets sorted out

Ex post facto mumbo jumbo due process means squat to the administration  and
if you think this aint true you arent yet one of the ones in the sights of the govmt     Y E T

Bet we get to the bottom of it right quickly if that happens

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