How many would accept a personal check via mail from a stranger ??

[PAVALKER]

I guess I am still perplexed that sellers think it is perfectly reasonable to demand that they have cleared funds in hand prior to sending an item.  Why would a person send the equivalent of cash (or be expected to wait until the check clears) when buying from a total stranger?  Why is it that the buyer is expected to trust the seller unconditionally, when the seller makes it clear that he does not trust the buyer?  I realize that if a person is selfling something, he has the right to set the terms of sale.  I just do not understand the “I do not trust you; but I demand that you trust me” philosophy.

As a somewhat aside, I was once accused of being a thief because I sent the seller a Western Union money order.  He informed me that no honest person uses Western Union.  I guess I don’t understand how Western Union stays in business. [And yes, the failed sale was with a fellow VRCC member.]

Make any eBay purchases?  Do they send the item to you and bill you?  Ordered from any online business and had them send the item to you with a bill?  Or gone grocery shopping...do they let you take the groceries home and send in your money?  How about Target, do they let you take the items out of the store before you pay?

Yea, Western Union isn't a fav anymore for most anyone.  Postal MO is more the acceptable I think.

My mistake.  I thought you were discussing personal transactions between individuals who were strangers.

Same thing really..... Do you know who you are dealing with on eBay? Do you know the folks at the store you shop at on line or at a block store?  Those are strangers as well are they not?

If you think a payment to Target is the same as a payment to a total stranger, let me tell you about a 1999 Honda Valkyrie Interstate I have for sale.  Only 2,000 miles, in pristine condition.  Only $2,000.  Send me a Postal Money Order and I will ship it to your address.

If you really believe that transactions between a local store and a total stranger are the "same thing really," there is no point in this discussion.  Ebay is comparing apples to oranges.  And yes, I usually try to verify the legitimacy of an online business before sending my money.  I stand by my original post.

My point is that you pay before you get your stuff, regardless if it's in your local supermarket, online store, eBay,  Craigslist, the classifieds here or the like .  Usually the only folks nowadays that may give you things in advance of payment are Dentists and Doctors...and usually they have all your info on file.  A car dealer might let you drive away with no money down, but he has your credit ap and approval and other documents you signed in hand, before hand.  So...yea, my point stands.

BTW....send me your name address and phone nr so I can coordinate the purchase of the IS, I'll bring the 2k money order or cash in person so I can ride it home.  Or....if your prefer...send me the interstate and I will send ya a check when I get it.  

And...you answered your own earlier question when you said.....   I realize that if a person is selfling something, he has the right to set the terms of sale.    If both parties negotiate different terms...so be it.  But I bet the grocery store, Target and eBay won't ship your stuff to you without payment or a CC payment.

[vanagon40]

I guess I am still perplexed that sellers think it is perfectly reasonable to demand that they have cleared funds in hand prior to sending an item.  Why would a person send the equivalent of cash (or be expected to wait until the check clears) when buying from a total stranger?  Why is it that the buyer is expected to trust the seller unconditionally, when the seller makes it clear that he does not trust the buyer?  I realize that if a person is selling something, he has the right to set the terms of sale.  I just do not understand the “I do not trust you; but I demand that you trust me” philosophy.

As a somewhat aside, I was once accused of being a thief because I sent the seller a Western Union money order.  He informed me that no honest person uses Western Union.  I guess I don’t understand how Western Union stays in business. [And yes, the failed sale was with a fellow VRCC member.]

Make any eBay purchases?  Do they send the item to you and bill you?  Ordered from any online business and had them send the item to you with a bill?  Or gone grocery shopping...do they let you take the groceries home and send in your money?  How about Target, do they let you take the items out of the store before you pay?

Yea, Western Union isn't a fav anymore for most anyone.  Postal MO is more the acceptable I think.

My mistake.  I thought you were discussing personal transactions between individuals who were strangers.

Same thing really..... Do you know who you are dealing with on eBay? Do you know the folks at the store you shop at on line or at a block store?  Those are strangers as well are they not?

If you think a payment to Target is the same as a payment to a total stranger, let me tell you about a 1999 Honda Valkyrie Interstate I have for sale.  Only 2,000 miles, in pristine condition.  Only $2,000.  Send me a Postal Money Order and I will ship it to your address.

If you really believe that transactions between a local store and a total stranger are the "same thing really," there is no point in this discussion.  Ebay is comparing apples to oranges.  And yes, I usually try to verify the legitimacy of an online business before sending my money.  I stand by my original post.

My point is that you pay before you get your stuff, regardless if it's in your local supermarket, online store, eBay,  Craigslist, the classifieds here or the like .  Usually the only folks nowadays that may give you things in advance of payment are Dentists and Doctors...and usually they have all your info on file.  A car dealer might let you drive away with no money down, but he has your credit ap and approval and other documents you signed in hand, before hand.  So...yea, my point stands.

BTW....send me your name address and phone nr so I can coordinate the purchase of the IS, I'll bring the 2k money order or cash in person so I can ride it home.  Or....if your prefer...send me the interstate and I will send ya a check when I get it. 

Then you will understand (and agree with) the edit to my last post.  Check out my last paragraph (the edit).

You do raise I point a had not considered: "you pay before you get your stuff."  I suppose I could argue that when the buyer sent the personal check, he did pay before he got his stuff, but I'm doubting that an uncleared check constitutes payment.  I will have to ponder this point (not necessarily the uncleared check but pay before you get your stuff concept).  I am certainly not above admitting I am wrong.

[PAVALKER]

I guess I am still perplexed that sellers think it is perfectly reasonable to demand that they have cleared funds in hand prior to sending an item.  Why would a person send the equivalent of cash (or be expected to wait until the check clears) when buying from a total stranger?  Why is it that the buyer is expected to trust the seller unconditionally, when the seller makes it clear that he does not trust the buyer?  I realize that if a person is selling something, he has the right to set the terms of sale.  I just do not understand the “I do not trust you; but I demand that you trust me” philosophy.

As a somewhat aside, I was once accused of being a thief because I sent the seller a Western Union money order.  He informed me that no honest person uses Western Union.  I guess I don’t understand how Western Union stays in business. [And yes, the failed sale was with a fellow VRCC member.]

Make any eBay purchases?  Do they send the item to you and bill you?  Ordered from any online business and had them send the item to you with a bill?  Or gone grocery shopping...do they let you take the groceries home and send in your money?  How about Target, do they let you take the items out of the store before you pay?

Yea, Western Union isn't a fav anymore for most anyone.  Postal MO is more the acceptable I think.

My mistake.  I thought you were discussing personal transactions between individuals who were strangers.

Same thing really..... Do you know who you are dealing with on eBay? Do you know the folks at the store you shop at on line or at a block store?  Those are strangers as well are they not?

If you think a payment to Target is the same as a payment to a total stranger, let me tell you about a 1999 Honda Valkyrie Interstate I have for sale.  Only 2,000 miles, in pristine condition.  Only $2,000.  Send me a Postal Money Order and I will ship it to your address.

If you really believe that transactions between a local store and a total stranger are the "same thing really," there is no point in this discussion.  Ebay is comparing apples to oranges.  And yes, I usually try to verify the legitimacy of an online business before sending my money.  I stand by my original post.

My point is that you pay before you get your stuff, regardless if it's in your local supermarket, online store, eBay,  Craigslist, the classifieds here or the like .  Usually the only folks nowadays that may give you things in advance of payment are Dentists and Doctors...and usually they have all your info on file.  A car dealer might let you drive away with no money down, but he has your credit ap and approval and other documents you signed in hand, before hand.  So...yea, my point stands.

BTW....send me your name address and phone nr so I can coordinate the purchase of the IS, I'll bring the 2k money order or cash in person so I can ride it home.  Or....if your prefer...send me the interstate and I will send ya a check when I get it.  

Then you will understand (and agree with) the edit to my last post.  Check out my last paragraph (the edit).

You do raise I point a had not considered: "you pay before you get your stuff."  I suppose I could argue that when the buyer sent the personal check, he did pay before he got his stuff, but I'm doubting that an uncleared check constitutes payment.  I will have to ponder this point (not necessarily the uncleared check but pay before you get your stuff concept).  I am certainly not above admitting I am wrong.

A personal check is just a piece of paper, and isn't considered  actual payment until the funds are transferred from your checking account to my account or in hand.  It can be readily cancelled or even just fraudulent and bogus worthless piece of paper from the onset.   Now if someone were to accidentally send you a Personal Check for twice as much as you asked for, and just said to send him the  overage remainder back in cash or one of your personal checks..... I assume you would accept that check as payment and issue him an overcharge refund?  I doubt it....  LOL

Regarding your edited last paragraph......  Obviously I would not go to the added expense of driving to get and cash a money order (twice) for a 50 dollar item. If one of us wouldn't give in or both agree to both send them, then the deal probably wouldn't happen. Considering the cost of the item, I bet the two would negotiate terms that agree to both of them......and if they don't agree then no deal I'd imagine. But how often do you see a trade deal offered from the git go, not as often as a regular for sale, or wanted.  Key is, they would have to negotiate acceptable terms to each or no deal.  

[Willow]

We're missing an entry on the poll that says, "It depends ..."  It could depend upon the price and value, the situation, or what I had for breakfast that morning.  The answer becomes maybe or maybe not.

To many variables for that "depends" to list and it wouldn't be right to just list depends, do you think?

And that, my friend, is what makes it a completely meaningless poll.  I did not respond to the poll.  Sometimes with me I would; sometimes I would not.  For me it most definitely "depends".

[vanagon40]

Having now pondered the proposition, you pay before you get your stuff, I cannot agree.

It is not the universal rule that a buy has to pay before getting the item.  This is the nearly universal rule when an individual is buying from a business (the majority of transactions).  On the other hand, when an individual is selling to a business, the universal rule is that the individual must deliver the item to the buyer, the buyer has an opportunity to inspect, weigh, or otherwise approve of the item, and only then will the individual seller be paid.  Examples include automobiles, scrap metal and aluminum, books, etc.  These transactions do not usually occur via mail.  However, when the transaction is by mail, the same rule applies.  Cash for gold is one example.  Another would be book dealers.  A final example would be catalytic converters.  When looking for the scrap value of a catalytic converter I salvaged, at least one business would pay after the seller shipped the catalytic converter to the business.

When both the buyer and seller are individuals, I return to my original post.

[PAVALKER]

We're missing an entry on the poll that says, "It depends ..."  It could depend upon the price and value, the situation, or what I had for breakfast that morning.  The answer becomes maybe or maybe not.

To many variables for that "depends" to list and it wouldn't be right to just list depends, do you think?

And that, my friend, is what makes it a completely meaningless poll.  I did not respond to the poll.  Sometimes with me I would; sometimes I would not.  For me it most definitely "depends".

I can understand that, but as a general rule I'm sure you have a tendency to lean one way or the other.  Everything can be qualified with depends I guess.

Having now pondered the proposition, you pay before you get your stuff, I cannot agree.

It is not the universal rule that a buy has to pay before getting the item.  This is the nearly universal rule when an individual is buying from a business (the majority of transactions).  On the other hand, when an individual is selling to a business, the universal rule is that the individual must deliver the item to the buyer, the buyer has an opportunity to inspect, weigh, or otherwise approve of the item, and only then will the individual seller be paid.  Examples include automobiles, scrap metal and aluminum, books, etc.  These transactions do not usually occur via mail.  However, when the transaction is by mail, the same rule applies.  Cash for gold is one example.  Another would be book dealers.  A final example would be catalytic converters.  When looking for the scrap value of a catalytic converter I salvaged, at least one business would pay after the seller shipped the catalytic converter to the business.

When both the buyer and seller are individuals, I return to my original post.

Well alrighty then.....   There are some business benefits I guess for some.

So did you want to ship that pristine Interstate to me and let me check it out then send you the check, or shall I come take a look at it in person with a check in hand?  Send me your contact info and address.

[Hooter]

   No matter what type of transaction or how it's played out, somebody has to trust somebody!

[Paladin528]

Paypal provides protection to either party if something is wrong with the transaction.  Thats why I use it for almost all online transactions.

[Moonshot_1]

I only accept personal checks from High Ranking Nigerian strangers if it is drawn on a Nigerian Bank. That way you know they are legit.

[The emperor has no clothes]

I only accept personal checks from High Ranking Nigerian strangers if it is drawn on a Nigerian Bank. That way you know they are legit.

Yes and you get a high return on your money. 

[BF]

Paypal provides protection to either party if something is wrong with the transaction.  Thats why I use it for almost all online transactions.

Ditto.

[Kirb]

Of course I only sent 40 bucks and told him let the check clear then send. If it were a larger sum I would likely be sending a money order

[nogrey]

It's a question that I think we all ponder when dealing with a stranger. I've had very positive experiences dealing with members of this board. Craigslist, of course, is a crapshoot. Hard to know what to do here. If I send payment first, which I admit is the norm, how do I get my money back if the deal goes south. I don't think that you can. Ebay usually offers a money back guarantee, and I've used it before. Paypal (which is Ebay) does the same thing. Paypal has a new feature that waits to take payment out of your account until after you've received it. Interesting pole. I still don't understand why some folks get so bent out of shape when they don't agree with the way someone else posts on this board. I guess we're all getting to be old codgers. I know I've been lambasted pretty good for trying to offer helpful suggestions. Like mom always said, there are more horses asses than there are horses.

[PAVALKER]

It's a question that I think we all ponder when dealing with a stranger. I've had very positive experiences dealing with members of this board. Craigslist, of course, is a crapshoot. Hard to know what to do here. If I send payment first, which I admit is the norm, how do I get my money back if the deal goes south. I don't think that you can. Ebay usually offers a money back guarantee, and I've used it before. Paypal (which is Ebay) does the same thing. Paypal has a new feature that waits to take payment out of your account until after you've received it. Interesting pole. I still don't understand why some folks get so bent out of shape when they don't agree with the way someone else posts on this board. I guess we're all getting to be old codgers. I know I've been lambasted pretty good for trying to offer helpful suggestions. Like mom always said, there are more horses asses than there are horses.

Yes, eBay and PayPal provide that buyer protection, and a means to dispute terms of s sour deal.  And PayPal is probably the best protection.  Second I'm thinking (and hoping) a U.S. Postal Money Order might be...and only by involving the Feds in a Potential Mail Fraud Case.  Not sure if it would be persued and prosecuted, but the threat of that hanging over someone's head is .... Motivating at least.  

I find of those that voted, the non acceptance and/or ship after check clears leads, as expected....and those few that readily accepted a personal  Check might just be too trusting, or have not yet been scammed.  I might have thought the "hell no" option would get the most votes, but understand the actual results for the most part.

What I do find amusing, is that some folks think or have expected in a rather demanding way that their personal check should should be accepted, but when it comes down to it....they have or will agree that they probably would not be as trusting, at least in quite a few of my experiences at least.

Is anything as reliable or as protecting as PayPal ?  I don't know....but I'm doubting Bitcoin is ....LOL

[BF]

Did vanagon40 send you that Interstate for your inspection yet?  I'm sure he can trust you to send payment or send him the Interstate back to him if you don't like it.  

Perhaps it's already in route to you. 

[fudgie]

I have from VRCC members and vice versa.

[PAVALKER]

Did vanagon40 send you that Interstate for your inspection yet?  I'm sure he can trust you to send payment or send him the Interstate back to him if you don't like it.  

Perhaps it's already in route to you. 

Nope, have not received any contact info, the Interststate or even advance shipping notice that it was....in the mail.  But maybe he is busy and already did ship it and it's enroute.  I can give him more time tho...I'm a nice trusting guy like that.  But if it doesn't arrive in 4 weeks I'm going to be forced to rip up or void that 2k personal check.  Maybe he will change his payment terms and want catalytic converters in lieu of cash and ask me to send those prior to shipping the bike.  Not sure..