I Like Being Able To Fire People

[G-Man]

Seems every other year I have to fire the landscape crew.

1/3 of an acre with a house sitting in the middle of it and a hill that takes up half the backyard, and it seems like it's a problem to provide the services agreed upon which includes cutting the grass (front and back, both about 25 square feet), keep back the ivy on the hill in backyard, keep property clean from refuse (leaves, twigs, etc.), weeding, and leaf clean-up in fall.

All companies do great the first year and then fall off the second year.  Today I watched them blow the leaves off the lawn and patio in the backyard onto the hill back there and onto my neighbors property.  On the side of the house, all around the shed, is refuse from last winter they never picked up.

I've complained twice before and a 3rd time today, but this complaint included a cancellation of services request. 

Good thing they're not union.   

[RDAbull]

I see a small problem here Gary, you actually expect people to do the job that you hired them to do.

Obviously, over-expectation on your part.   

[_Sheffjs_]

Welcome to the new age!  I have many vendors for the 92,000sf building I manage and this type of poo happens all to often. 

[Stanley Steamer]

Seems every other year I have to fire the landscape crew.

1/3 of an acre with a house sitting in the middle of it and a hill that takes up half the backyard, and it seems like it's a problem to provide the services agreed upon which includes cutting the grass (front and back, both about 25 square feet), keep back the ivy on the hill in backyard, keep property clean from refuse (leaves, twigs, etc.), weeding, and leaf clean-up in fall.

All companies do great the first year and then fall off the second year.  Today I watched them blow the leaves off the lawn and patio in the backyard onto the hill back there and onto my neighbors property.  On the side of the house, all around the shed, is refuse from last winter they never picked up.

I've complained twice before and a 3rd time today, but this complaint included a cancellation of services request. 

Good thing they're not union.   

These young guys these days have no work ethics or morals.....we've had a couple just transfer out to another division....likeable guys except for work ethic and doing stuff like that...I won't tolerate that kind of stuff on my crew...do what you SAY you were going to do.....be there when you say you will, and do the job right.......maybe I'm just Old School, but it just makes sense to me....I will apply these same ethics to my soon to be new tractor business.......

[wiggydotcom]

Seems every other year I have to fire the landscape crew.

1/3 of an acre with a house sitting in the middle of it and a hill that takes up half the backyard, and it seems like it's a problem to provide the services agreed upon which includes cutting the grass (front and back, both about 25 square feet), keep back the ivy on the hill in backyard, keep property clean from refuse (leaves, twigs, etc.), weeding, and leaf clean-up in fall.

All companies do great the first year and then fall off the second year.  Today I watched them blow the leaves off the lawn and patio in the backyard onto the hill back there and onto my neighbors property.  On the side of the house, all around the shed, is refuse from last winter they never picked up.

I've complained twice before and a 3rd time today, but this complaint included a cancellation of services request. 

Good thing they're not union.   

These young guys these days have no work ethics or morals.....we've had a couple just transfer out to another division....likeable guys except for work ethic and doing stuff like that...I won't tolerate that kind of stuff on my crew...do what you SAY you were going to do.....be there when you say you will, and do the job right.......maybe I'm just Old School, but it just makes sense to me....I will apply these same ethics to my soon to be new tractor business.......

Since I am one of the senior electricians at Cat Aurora, I try to instill good principles in the trainees and new hires that are assigned to me. One of the first things I tell them is "When we leave a job, there should be no evidence we were there, except the machine is fixed".
Translated-Your mother doesn't work here...clean up after YOURSELF!

[dinosnake]

Seems every other year I have to fire the landscape crew.

1/3 of an acre with a house sitting in the middle of it and a hill that takes up half the backyard, and it seems like it's a problem to provide the services agreed upon which includes cutting the grass (front and back, both about 25 square feet), keep back the ivy on the hill in backyard, keep property clean from refuse (leaves, twigs, etc.), weeding, and leaf clean-up in fall.

All companies do great the first year and then fall off the second year.  Today I watched them blow the leaves off the lawn and patio in the backyard onto the hill back there and onto my neighbors property.  On the side of the house, all around the shed, is refuse from last winter they never picked up.

I've complained twice before and a 3rd time today, but this complaint included a cancellation of services request. 

Good thing they're not union.   

These young guys these days have no work ethics or morals.....we've had a couple just transfer out to another division....likeable guys except for work ethic and doing stuff like that...I won't tolerate that kind of stuff on my crew...do what you SAY you were going to do.....be there when you say you will, and do the job right.......maybe I'm just Old School, but it just makes sense to me....I will apply these same ethics to my soon to be new tractor business.......

Strange that we are quick to criticize the "young guys" on the crew, yet no criticism of the old guys overseeing them.  It's the same thing as firing the 20,000 line workers because the company is almost bankrupt while keeping the CEO and upper management in place, while giving them their yearly bonus to boot.

Welcome to modern America, folks!

[robin]

Try doing it yourself better results with some exercise thrown in free of charge

[Rams]

I would have to suggest that it's not necessarily the crew but, the supervision that's at fault.

They will do what they are supposed to if properly supervised.   

[Bighead]

I would have to suggest that it's not necessarily the crew but, the supervision that's at fault.

They will do what they are supposed to if properly supervised.   

I have to 100% disagree. I see this all the time. Young folks complain that they are starting a job at $15-$16 an hour and think they need more yet they don't want to work for more they expect it to be handed everything to them even though they no nothing. Supervision in certain situations can be a problem but for them most part this is the entitled generation.

[Romeo]

Here's how I see it fellas. For quite awhile now the work ethic has been based on the value that you do work in exchange for monetary gain. Period. We make no distinction between quality work and sub quality work. It's all relative. In other words, if you can get away with shoddy work, why not?
Past generations used to take pride in what they did, and how well they did it, regardless of what they were paid. Not anymore.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Here's how I see it fellas. For quite awhile now the work ethic has been based on the value that you do work in exchange for monetary gain. Period. We make no distinction between quality work and sub quality work. It's all relative. In other words, if you can get away with shoddy work, why not?
Past generations used to take pride in what they did, and how well they did it, regardless of what they were paid. Not anymore.

There are plenty of young people that work hard and take pride in their work. Just as there plenty of us old guys that don't. 

[Bighead]

Here's how I see it fellas. For quite awhile now the work ethic has been based on the value that you do work in exchange for monetary gain. Period. We make no distinction between quality work and sub quality work. It's all relative. In other words, if you can get away with shoddy work, why not?
Past generations used to take pride in what they did, and how well they did it, regardless of what they were paid. Not anymore.

There are plenty of young people that work hard and take pride in their work. Just as there plenty of us old guys that don't. 

I have yet to see many. Maybe 1 In 25 give a tinkers damn about anything other than a check.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Here's how I see it fellas. For quite awhile now the work ethic has been based on the value that you do work in exchange for monetary gain. Period. We make no distinction between quality work and sub quality work. It's all relative. In other words, if you can get away with shoddy work, why not?
Past generations used to take pride in what they did, and how well they did it, regardless of what they were paid. Not anymore.

There are plenty of young people that work hard and take pride in their work. Just as there plenty of us old guys that don't. 

I have yet to see many. Maybe 1 In 25 give a tinkers damn about anything other than a check.

Maybe you should improve the crowd you hang with.  It sure is interesting how a lot of people think they better virtues than the generation WE raised. 

[Bighead]

Here's how I see it fellas. For quite awhile now the work ethic has been based on the value that you do work in exchange for monetary gain. Period. We make no distinction between quality work and sub quality work. It's all relative. In other words, if you can get away with shoddy work, why not?
Past generations used to take pride in what they did, and how well they did it, regardless of what they were paid. Not anymore.

There are plenty of young people that work hard and take pride in their work. Just as there plenty of us old guys that don't. 

I have yet to see many. Maybe 1 In 25 give a tinkers damn about anything other than a check.

Maybe you should improve the crowd you hang with.  It sure is interesting how a lot of people think they better virtues than the generation WE raised. 

Well I haven't raised any but when we have a student in our operating room learning the job I will give them all the help in the world (if they are willing to learn) but most think I don't know what I am talking about and they know everything and they are just starting out and I have been doing this job for 30+ years. I let them sink and have to find another line of work if they don't listen or act like they want to learn.

[Crackerborn]

I get to lay-off 1 to 3 employees every year between now and the holidays. Slackers never make it to the lay-off and only once did I fire an employee at this time of year. Most of my guys (and occasionally a lady) are trying to support families so I really do not find it a pleasure. Some will make more on unemployment than I will over the next few months depending on the contracts I can secure. This annual cycle of hire in the Spring and then lay-off in the Fall has become much more prevalent since 2010. The one person I fired outright was lining up work for the winter from my client base and expected to receive un-employment and do work for cash from my customers. The majority of my repeat customers reported this to me. The ones that did not are no longer customers and were surprised when I informed them they needed to find a new source for case work. A company must set the standards and enforce them.

[Rams]

All I'm going to say is, I have yet to see a crew that I couldn't improve one way or another.    

It's called leadership.   Some times, it's painful for the crewmembers that don't live up to expectations but, they'll either improve or find something else to do.   I don't care what generation they are from.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Yes I understand what you are saying. But I think there were plenty in our day the same way. At least I can remember plenty going thru school and thru the Navy.  

I get to lay-off 1 to 3 employees every year between now and the holidays. Slackers never make it to the lay-off and only once did I fire an employee at this time of year. Most of my guys (and occasionally a lady) are trying to support families so I really do not find it a pleasure. Some will make more on unemployment than I will over the next few months depending on the contracts I can secure. This annual cycle of hire in the Spring and then lay-off in the Fall has become much more prevalent since 2010. The one person I fired outright was lining up work for the winter from my client base and expected to receive un-employment and do work for cash from my customers. The majority of my repeat customers reported this to me. The ones that did not are no longer customers and were surprised when I informed them they needed to find a new source for case work. A company must set the standards and enforce them.

I agree it's not an enjoyable thing to fire someone.

All I'm going to say is, I have yet to see a crew that I couldn't improve one way or another.   

It's called leadership.   Some times, it's painful for the crewmembers that don't live up to expectations but, they'll either improve or find something else to do.   I don't care what generation they are from.

+1, sometimes it's harder than others though. 

[Jess from VA]

Speaking of older vs younger workers, I cannot help but mention that I never see any K-12 lifting a finger to do yard work in my neighborhood (maybe 6-800 homes) in over 20 years.  Actually, I don't see them outside doing much of anything.  They fill up school buses all over the place, then come home, get off the buses, and disappear.

I put in about 7 hours today.  At 62 I'm a bit sore, but no complaints.   My wages suck. 

[Motor City Lulu Belle]

Gig says.....fire Harbaugh!

[The emperor has no clothes]

Gig says.....fire Harbaugh!

I imagine he's not the only one.

[Oss]

Why not have eric mow
I mowed my house and many neighbors as a kid

[Romeo]

Here's how I see it fellas. For quite awhile now the work ethic has been based on the value that you do work in exchange for monetary gain. Period. We make no distinction between quality work and sub quality work. It's all relative. In other words, if you can get away with shoddy work, why not?
Past generations used to take pride in what they did, and how well they did it, regardless of what they were paid. Not anymore.

There are plenty of young people that work hard and take pride in their work. Just as there plenty of us old guys that don't. 

most young people have no idea what hard work even is, let alone take pride in doing it.
If you think the work ethic in this country hasn't changed in the last 40 years, there's no sense in even discussing the topic.

[BF]

Here's how I see it fellas. For quite awhile now the work ethic has been based on the value that you do work in exchange for monetary gain. Period. We make no distinction between quality work and sub quality work. It's all relative. In other words, if you can get away with shoddy work, why not?
Past generations used to take pride in what they did, and how well they did it, regardless of what they were paid. Not anymore.

There are plenty of young people that work hard and take pride in their work. Just as there plenty of us old guys that don't. 

most young people have no idea what hard work even is, let alone take pride in doing it.
If you think the work ethic in this country hasn't changed in the last 40 years, there's no sense in even discussing the topic.

The work ethic has most definitely changed...but it's not just young people. 

We have a bunch of old dead wood that have been hired the last several years that think that their primary job is to drink coffee and smoke cigarettes.....then follow that up with a coffee break followed up with a smoke break followed with a cell phone call with a few texts thrown in followed up with a coffee break.

Then it's time for lunch followed by a smoke break where they bitch about how tuff they've got.

They had better be glad that I don't have the power to fire.

[pais]

  I have a saying I've been using for about the last 14yrs.
   "It's hard to spend your money these days"
  The last good contractor/job I had done was the roofer that did the obvious. That was the summer of '01. Since then whenever I've chosen not to do the work. For whatever reason, it has been more of a job to get(pay) someone to do it! Very, very , very frustrating! When you finally get them out on the job(if it ever makes it that far) now the quality of work is questionable at best. I've given up, I do most everything myself. Takes me 2-3 times longer(as you can tell by my posts of my carb job) but, I know it's done right and I answer too myself.
  A lot of good points made here. GMan, I'm curious when you say "I complained twice before.. Who did you complain too? The guys doing the work or the co.? Unless the guy doing the work owns the company, you wasted your breath twice.
  Definite issues/differences with the workforce these days no doubt. I know one thing they are not born this way. Every day at my place of employment I see management not wanting to manage. As I tell my kids, communication is critical! 

[musclehead]

not my typical experience here at work in the RV industry, well sure we have a few putzes but for the most part the young guys we have hired are here to learn and don't mind learning stuff outside their wheelhouse.

one young man came into the upholstery shop last week and was watching me restring a day/night shade and wanted me to teach him how. that's not his job, but he shows a willingness to learn I can't say nothing bad about that.

[czuch]

The sign above the door in the warehouse is, "Good enough, isn't".
Some guys need 'splainen. Some laugh, all live by it or are short timers.

[G-Man]

Try doing it yourself better results with some exercise thrown in free of charge

That's what I've decided, Robin.  I surely could use the exercise!

[G-Man]

I would have to suggest that it's not necessarily the crew but, the supervision that's at fault.

They will do what they are supposed to if properly supervised.   

Yep, turns out the guy I hired, subcontracted the work out.  Two guys show up, nobody watching, crappy job, Hasta Luego.

[G-Man]

Why not have eric mow
I mowed my house and many neighbors as a kid

He'd cut off his own foot, my knucklehead of a son!   

[G-Man]

BTW,  The two guys that the work was subcontracted out to are hispanic, speak very little English (I tried) and in their late 30's to early 40's.

[GiG]

He'd cut off his own foot...  

At least he wouldn't kick me in the chops again...  

 

[Reb]

Hey look here Old Farts... Don't be bashing the younger generation for deterring away from hard works. It's the generation of parents that raised these damn heathens.  

Actually, it surprised me when I first started at John Deere just how many young professionals they had working in engineering. By young, I mean in the age group of 20-30, (this includes interns)

What was even more surprising to me, is the amount of engineers that have/had farm related backgrounds. This makes a huge difference from someone that grew up without ever experiencing a blister or even dirt under the fingernails. Trust me when I tell you there is a "HUGE DIFFERENCE" in realistic work ethic.

I have a great relationship with our labor force on the assembly line, mainly because there are some days I'd prefer to get grease on my hands rather than stare at a computer screen all day. I like to take into account an assemblers perspective when I'm designing something. I try to end the phrase "them damn engineers" I hear to often.

I think ones background is what puts them into the perspective of the world today. I was fortunate to have the farm Experience/ military Experience/college experience to put me in a realistic touch with reality.

It is the care for ones work outcome that is thrown out these days. I was always told If you enjoy what you do, you never have to work again in your life

[Wizzard]

I too grew up on a farm and my work ethic was developed from that. I cannot tell you how many times over the years I have heard prospective employer say "well at least if he is a farm boy he knows how to work".
Most of them say they prefer them.

[G-Man]

He'd cut off his own foot...  

At least he wouldn't kick me in the chops again...  

 

That was funny!   

[G-Man]

I too grew up on a farm and my work ethic was developed from that. I cannot tell you how many times over the years I have heard prospective employer say "well at least if he is a farm boy he knows how to work".
Most of them say they prefer them.

I grew up in the big city.  As did my father, and his.  My grandfather went to work full time at age 8.  My father worked for him at age 12 driving a live chicken truck (yes, on the lower east side of manhattan, in the city).  My first job was also at age 12 as a paperboy after school.  I've always had a job and never had to rely on anyone.  Took loans for school and paid them off early.  Took a mortgage that will also be paid of early and we have no credit card debt. 

My wife and I come from hard working families and our backgrounds and childhoods couldn't be more different.  We work hard and do our best to set good examples for our kids.  One of them gets more than the other one, but I think he'll come around soon.

Reb, said it, alomng with others in this thread,....leadership and parenting!

[BF]

Hey look here Old Farts... Don't be bashing the younger generation for deterring away from hard works. It's the generation of parents that raised these damn heathens.  

Dang young whipper snappers.   

For the record, I didn't bash the young guys....at our facility, it's mostly a bunch of middle aged and older fellows I'd tell to hit the road.  Most of them are simply.....sorry...and think that they are entitled to the respect and seniority of a man that's been here over 30 years. 

Forgive me people, but you have to start at the bottom just like everyone else had to.  It's NOT going to be handed to just cause you're so damn awsome.

Don't get me wrong, we have some younger ones that think they are entitled, but here, it's mostly middle aged and a few older people that are almost as old as me....and for still being in the work force, I'm pretty darn old.

[Jess from VA]

Having spent many years in the work force, working on various teams (gas station, construction crew, circuit court, private practice, Jag department, VA legal) my take on firing people was almost always this;  get rid of the deadwood.   Train and motivate them up, but if they don't work out, or work very hard, or smart, then get rid of them and try another guy (gal).  If you do not do this, you do a serious disservice to everyone on the team.  Leaders who cannot or will not get rid of deadwood are lousy leaders (and they should go too).

No matter how personable or likable, people who don't pull their weight in a team need to be replaced with people who will.  Just because I (and others) could pull my own weight and some of someone else's, that is not a happy situation, and is contrary to the good order and discipline and morale of the team.  Sure, anyone new needs trained up (we all did).  But once you have gone through your training, it's time to get with the program.  

There is not much more deleterious to unit cohesion and effectiveness, than having a bunch of guys working, but only 3/4 of them actually work, and the others just pretend to work (drawing the same pay).  On the other hand, when everyone to your right and left is busting ass and doing his best, it's very hard for you not to do likewise.

We always talked about Johnny who can't, and Johnny who won't.  It's easier to have a little sympathy for Johnny who can't, but at the end of the day, if your mission is worth doing, they both have to go.