Mormon Tabernacle Singer Quits Choir Over Trump Inauguration

[Gavin_Sons]

Wrong. Gender and sexual orientation are 2 separate things.

If your going to get technical then one was the oriented correctly the other was not so it went both ways. So I am correct unless you want to say that preference or a decision has something to do with it.

Gender discrimination is when women or men are denied equal rights. Sexual orientation discrimination is when gays, lesbians, and even heterosexuals are denied equal rights. See the difference ?

No

[Willow]

What a lot of folks are missing in this discussion of the bakery is that the baker did not refuse to do business with the individuals because they were homosexuals but simply said he could not promote a gay wedding.  They didn't just want to buy a cake from him but insisted that he include decoration on the cake promoting the gayness of the wedding.  Interestingly, at the time the state did not even recognize the legality of a marriage between two members of the same sex.  Further, the couple was not particularly interested in doing business with that bakery but specifically targeted him because they believed they could influence him to refuse and set a foundation for their already intended lawsuit.

I'm not in favor of a defense based upon religious freedom.  That could result in a muslem claiming that his religion required him to kill his raped daughter.  I am more in favor of a business having the right to choose what it will or will not do.  I believe it's right for the government to choose who cannot be excluded from government organizations and services.  I'm much in favor of the laws against segregation in schools and even laws against discrimination in government employment.  Whether it is the law or not I simply believe it is not the government's place to dictate to whom a business will provide services.             

[Robert]

No

Exactly

So what reason should any of this make for a reason to escalate one groups rights over another?

[Rams]

What a lot of folks are missing in this discussion of the bakery is that the baker did not refuse to do business with the individuals because they were homosexuals but simply said he could not promote a gay wedding.  They didn't just want to buy a cake from him but insisted that he include decoration on the cake promoting the gayness of the wedding.  Interestingly, at the time the state did not even recognize the legality of a marriage between two members of the same sex.  Further, the couple was not particularly interested in doing business with that bakery but specifically targeted him because they believed they could influence him to refuse and set a foundation for their already intended lawsuit.

I'm not in favor of a defense based upon religious freedom.  That could result in a muslem claiming that his religion required him to kill his raped daughter.  I am more in favor of a business having the right to choose what it will or will not do.  I believe it's right for the government to choose who cannot be excluded from government organizations and services.  I'm much in favor of the laws against segregation in schools and even laws against discrimination in government employment.  Whether it is the law or not I simply believe it is not the government's place to dictate to whom a business will provide services.             

Very well stated.   

Standards should be the same for all, regardless of any other factors in hiring.   Most qualified gets the job.    While I do support giving credit to Veterans, that about where I'd draw the line.

[Rams]

I fail to see how Harley Owners would fall into any of the categories of race, religion, age, sexual orientation ?

Seriously?   If they aren't a "special needs group", who is.................  

Come on now, it's just an example.  

But, the categories you mention have been given special rights, they are no better than any one else IMHO.    The Liberal courts apparently don't see it that way.   My sincerest hope is that a few Constitutional Jurist will be appointed to SCOTUS and right a few wrongs in the coming years.   YMMV

[Fathertime]

http://www.amazingbible.org/Documents/Bible_Studies/Sin_list_part_6.htm

I guess you didn't see that marriage is supposed to be between one man and one woman. That they were created this way.

Who says?

[Fathertime]

We are all guilty of some form of discrimination. The issue here is it against the law.
How does that law elevate one class over another ? It appears to me to make everyone equal.

If everyone is equal then why do we need the law to tell us certain people are not equal and give them special rights?

Because, in many cases the human race is too dumb ass stupid to remember most of what we learned in kindergarden
Wait your turn
Don't push
Say please and thank you
Wash your hands when your done
Don't  kill people
Don't hate people.

  I wonder if we should have mandatory refresher programs when we renew our drivers licence?

[Bighead]

http://www.amazingbible.org/Documents/Bible_Studies/Sin_list_part_6.htm

I guess you didn't see that marriage is supposed to be between one man and one woman. That they were created this way.

Who says?

Our creator God All Mighty himself said this!

We are all guilty of some form of discrimination. The issue here is it against the law.
How does that law elevate one class over another ? It appears to me to make everyone equal.

If everyone is equal then why do we need the law to tell us certain people are not equal and give them special rights?

Because, in many cases the human race is too dumb ass stupid to remember most of what we learned in kindergarden
Wait your turn
Don't push
Say please and thank you
Wash your hands when your done
Don't  kill people
Don't hate people.

  I wonder if we should have mandatory refresher programs when we renew our drivers licence?

Guess you missed a few of those lessons yourself.



And I thought this thread was half way down the page 

[Moonshot_1]

http://www.amazingbible.org/Documents/Bible_Studies/Sin_list_part_6.htm

I guess you didn't see that marriage is supposed to be between one man and one woman. That they were created this way.

Who says?

So if we find our Earth in peril and have to send two people to into the Cosmos to have the best chance of keeping our species alive in this universe, you would send Gary and Steve rather than Adam and Eve?

I'd be putting money on the Adam and Eve option.

[Fathertime]

http://www.amazingbible.org/Documents/Bible_Studies/Sin_list_part_6.htm

I guess you didn't see that marriage is supposed to be between one man and one woman. That they were created this way.

Who says?

Our creator God All Mighty himself said this!

We are all guilty of some form of discrimination. The issue here is it against the law.
How does that law elevate one class over another ? It appears to me to make everyone equal.

If everyone is equal then why do we need the law to tell us certain people are not equal and give them special rights?

Because, in many cases the human race is too dumb ass stupid to remember most of what we learned in kindergarden
Wait your turn
Don't push
Say please and thank you
Wash your hands when your done
Don't  kill people
Don't hate people.

  I wonder if we should have mandatory refresher programs when we renew our drivers licence?

Guess you missed a few of those lessons yourself.



And I thought this thread was half way down the page  

Oh, so a mythical entity tells you what to do?
Not mythical?  Prove the existence of it.
Told us?  I certainly have heard no such thing.  No letters, no E-mails, no voice mails.  Certainly no booming voices from above.
If you want to assume the presence of a diety, honestly go for it.  I honestly could care less.  But please, do not combine the un-provable with locic.


What a "Christian"  thing to say.
  I submit you missed all of those lessons your God, your creator attempted to teach YOU.  Like love your fellow man and judge not less you be judged, let he who is without sin cast the first stone and so on.
  
  Why is it that people get to pick and choose their sins?

[Fathertime]

http://www.amazingbible.org/Documents/Bible_Studies/Sin_list_part_6.htm

I guess you didn't see that marriage is supposed to be between one man and one woman. That they were created this way.

Who says?

So if we find our Earth in peril and have to send two people to into the Cosmos to have the best chance of keeping our species alive in this universe, you would send Gary and Steve rather than Adam and Eve?

I'd be putting money on the Adam and Eve option.

Lol.  Genetically speaking, two people would be the worst choice of all.
Nice try though.
Created?  That was the proof I asked for, but I'll argue the one man, one woman BS slso.

[Moonshot_1]

http://www.amazingbible.org/Documents/Bible_Studies/Sin_list_part_6.htm

I guess you didn't see that marriage is supposed to be between one man and one woman. That they were created this way.

Who says?

So if we find our Earth in peril and have to send two people to into the Cosmos to have the best chance of keeping our species alive in this universe, you would send Gary and Steve rather than Adam and Eve?

I'd be putting money on the Adam and Eve option.

Lol.  Genetically speaking, two people would be the worst choice of all.
Nice try though.
Created?  That was the proof I asked for, but I'll argue the one man, one woman BS slso.

Creation proof? That would be outside of the forum rules though I do know of some sites in this regard.

Maybe Oss could post some Secretary interview photos though. In the interest of science of course.

[Fathertime]

http://www.amazingbible.org/Documents/Bible_Studies/Sin_list_part_6.htm

I guess you didn't see that marriage is supposed to be between one man and one woman. That they were created this way.

Who says?

So if we find our Earth in peril and have to send two people to into the Cosmos to have the best chance of keeping our species alive in this universe, you would send Gary and Steve rather than Adam and Eve?

I'd be putting money on the Adam and Eve option.

Lol.  Genetically speaking, two people would be the worst choice of all.
Nice try though.
Created?  That was the proof I asked for, but I'll argue the one man, one woman BS slso.

Creation proof? That would be outside of the forum rules though I do know of some sites in this regard.

Maybe Oss could post some Secretary interview photos though. In the interest of science of course.

Biology is what my degree is in.  I'd be pleased to offer an opinion.
In the interest of science.

[Gavin_Sons]

http://www.amazingbible.org/Documents/Bible_Studies/Sin_list_part_6.htm

I guess you didn't see that marriage is supposed to be between one man and one woman. That they were created this way.

Who says?

So if we find our Earth in peril and have to send two people to into the Cosmos to have the best chance of keeping our species alive in this universe, you would send Gary and Steve rather than Adam and Eve?

I'd be putting money on the Adam and Eve option.

Lol.  Genetically speaking, two people would be the worst choice of all.
Nice try though.
Created?  That was the proof I asked for, but I'll argue the one man, one woman BS slso.

Creation proof? That would be outside of the forum rules though I do know of some sites in this regard.

Maybe Oss could post some Secretary interview photos though. In the interest of science of course.

Biology is what my degree is in.  I'd be pleased to offer an opinion.
In the interest of science.

No need, you already proved how smart you are 

[Romeo]

In th end, everything, and I mean everything comes down to religion, faith, belief or lack of belief in a deity. Pretty much all of conservative thought has its basis in Judeo Christan ethic. Pretty much all of liberal thought has its basis in secular humanism.

[Moonshot_1]

http://www.amazingbible.org/Documents/Bible_Studies/Sin_list_part_6.htm

I guess you didn't see that marriage is supposed to be between one man and one woman. That they were created this way.

Who says?

Our creator God All Mighty himself said this!

We are all guilty of some form of discrimination. The issue here is it against the law.
How does that law elevate one class over another ? It appears to me to make everyone equal.

If everyone is equal then why do we need the law to tell us certain people are not equal and give them special rights?

Because, in many cases the human race is too dumb ass stupid to remember most of what we learned in kindergarden
Wait your turn
Don't push
Say please and thank you
Wash your hands when your done
Don't  kill people
Don't hate people.

  I wonder if we should have mandatory refresher programs when we renew our drivers licence?

Guess you missed a few of those lessons yourself.



And I thought this thread was half way down the page  

Oh, so a mythical entity tells you what to do?
Not mythical?  Prove the existence of it.
Told us?  I certainly have heard no such thing.  No letters, no E-mails, no voice mails.  Certainly no booming voices from above.
If you want to assume the presence of a diety, honestly go for it.  I honestly could care less.  But please, do not combine the un-provable with locic.

Oh how folks like you are fun!

With only five feeble senses from which to draw you expect the ability to comprehend the universe and all that is within if only it can be proven to you!

Trust me. You don't possess enough senses to comprehend but the most infinitesimal constructs of the universe. No one does.

To prove the existence of a "deity" ?

Math.

A concept that transcends every culture that has ever existed.
A concept that has been in existence since before mankind walked the earth. (One star plus One star has always equaled Two Stars.)
A concept of order and logic that exists throughout the universe.
It is a language that is truly universal.

So perhaps, if you listen real close, you can hear him too.

[Fathertime]

http://www.amazingbible.org/Documents/Bible_Studies/Sin_list_part_6.htm

I guess you didn't see that marriage is supposed to be between one man and one woman. That they were created this way.

Who says?

Our creator God All Mighty himself said this!

We are all guilty of some form of discrimination. The issue here is it against the law.
How does that law elevate one class over another ? It appears to me to make everyone equal.

If everyone is equal then why do we need the law to tell us certain people are not equal and give them special rights?

Because, in many cases the human race is too dumb ass stupid to remember most of what we learned in kindergarden
Wait your turn
Don't push
Say please and thank you
Wash your hands when your done
Don't  kill people
Don't hate people.

  I wonder if we should have mandatory refresher programs when we renew our drivers licence?

Guess you missed a few of those lessons yourself.



And I thought this thread was half way down the page  

Oh, so a mythical entity tells you what to do?
Not mythical?  Prove the existence of it.
Told us?  I certainly have heard no such thing.  No letters, no E-mails, no voice mails.  Certainly no booming voices from above.
If you want to assume the presence of a diety, honestly go for it.  I honestly could care less.  But please, do not combine the un-provable with locic.

Oh how folks like you are fun!

With only five feeble senses from which to draw you expect the ability to comprehend the universe and all that is within if only it can be proven to you!

Trust me. You don't possess enough senses to comprehend but the most infinitesimal constructs of the universe. No one does.

To prove the existence of a "deity" ?

Math.

A concept that transcends every culture that has ever existed.
A concept that has been in existence since before mankind walked the earth. (One star plus One star has always equaled Two Stars.)
A concept of order and logic that exists throughout the universe.
It is a language that is truly universal.

So perhaps, if you listen real close, you can hear him too.

Math.
One of the most pure sciences.
Discovered by man.  Defined by man, by the first cave man who scratched in the dirt the number of stars he saw at night.
Refined by man with the progression of algebra and then calculus and all the higher evolutions of the math sciences. 
I listen and hear the music of the Cosmos.  The static of the spheres.  Stars lighting their fusion fires for the first time, stars dying in one gigantic blast of power.
Yes prove it to me.  Show me the evidence.  Show me facts and figures.  Do not ask me to believe because you do, or because I should, or because I have five senses.  In the absence of existence is the absence of evidence.

Make NO mistake here.
I do NOT disparage you.  You obviously are comfortable in your beliefs, and that is fine.
Please do not attempt to foster your beliefs on me though.

[Bighead]

http://www.amazingbible.org/Documents/Bible_Studies/Sin_list_part_6.htm

I guess you didn't see that marriage is supposed to be between one man and one woman. That they were created this way.

Who says?

Our creator God All Mighty himself said this!

We are all guilty of some form of discrimination. The issue here is it against the law.
How does that law elevate one class over another ? It appears to me to make everyone equal.

If everyone is equal then why do we need the law to tell us certain people are not equal and give them special rights?

Because, in many cases the human race is too dumb ass stupid to remember most of what we learned in kindergarden
Wait your turn
Don't push
Say please and thank you
Wash your hands when your done
Don't  kill people
Don't hate people.

  I wonder if we should have mandatory refresher programs when we renew our drivers licence?

Guess you missed a few of those lessons yourself.



And I thought this thread was half way down the page  

Oh, so a mythical entity tells you what to do?
Not mythical?  Prove the existence of it.
Told us?  I certainly have heard no such thing.  No letters, no E-mails, no voice mails.  Certainly no booming voices from above.
If you want to assume the presence of a diety, honestly go for it.  I honestly could care less.  But please, do not combine the un-provable with locic.


What a "Christian"  thing to say.
  I submit you missed all of those lessons your God, your creator attempted to teach YOU.  Like love your fellow man and judge not less you be judged, let he who is without sin cast the first stone and so on.
  
  Why is it that people get to pick and choose their sins?

Go back and read my attack on you
Trying to have a reasonable debate with you is like trying to pick up a turd by the clean end! It just can't happen
You will one day will stand in front of your maker!

[Fathertime]

http://www.amazingbible.org/Documents/Bible_Studies/Sin_list_part_6.htm

I guess you didn't see that marriage is supposed to be between one man and one woman. That they were created this way.

Who says?

Our creator God All Mighty himself said this!

We are all guilty of some form of discrimination. The issue here is it against the law.
How does that law elevate one class over another ? It appears to me to make everyone equal.

If everyone is equal then why do we need the law to tell us certain people are not equal and give them special rights?

Because, in many cases the human race is too dumb ass stupid to remember most of what we learned in kindergarden
Wait your turn
Don't push
Say please and thank you
Wash your hands when your done
Don't  kill people
Don't hate people.

  I wonder if we should have mandatory refresher programs when we renew our drivers licence?

Guess you missed a few of those lessons yourself.



And I thought this thread was half way down the page  

Oh, so a mythical entity tells you what to do?
Not mythical?  Prove the existence of it.
Told us?  I certainly have heard no such thing.  No letters, no E-mails, no voice mails.  Certainly no booming voices from above.
If you want to assume the presence of a diety, honestly go for it.  I honestly could care less.  But please, do not combine the un-provable with locic.


What a "Christian"  thing to say.
  I submit you missed all of those lessons your God, your creator attempted to teach YOU.  Like love your fellow man and judge not less you be judged, let he who is without sin cast the first stone and so on.
  
  Why is it that people get to pick and choose their sins?

Go back and read my attack on you
Trying to have a reasonable debate with you is like trying to pick up a turd by the clean end! It just can't happen
You will one day will stand in front of your maker!

Hahaha hahaha
No, really?
Hahahahahaha......
Wait, wait.  Give me a second....
Wahahahaha.....
Cough, cough.
OK, ok.  Wait.  Wait.  One second....
So.... that was an attack?  Oh, ok.  I was wondering.

Meet my maker?
My Dad's passed.
Mom lives just down the road.  See her quite frequently.  Thanks for your continued Christian concern and love.

[The emperor has no clothes]

http://www.amazingbible.org/Documents/Bible_Studies/Sin_list_part_6.htm

I guess you didn't see that marriage is supposed to be between one man and one woman. That they were created this way.

Who says?

Our creator God All Mighty himself said this!

We are all guilty of some form of discrimination. The issue here is it against the law.
How does that law elevate one class over another ? It appears to me to make everyone equal.

If everyone is equal then why do we need the law to tell us certain people are not equal and give them special rights?

Because, in many cases the human race is too dumb ass stupid to remember most of what we learned in kindergarden
Wait your turn
Don't push
Say please and thank you
Wash your hands when your done
Don't  kill people
Don't hate people.

  I wonder if we should have mandatory refresher programs when we renew our drivers licence?

Guess you missed a few of those lessons yourself.



And I thought this thread was half way down the page  

Oh, so a mythical entity tells you what to do?
Not mythical?  Prove the existence of it.
Told us?  I certainly have heard no such thing.  No letters, no E-mails, no voice mails.  Certainly no booming voices from above.
If you want to assume the presence of a diety, honestly go for it.  I honestly could care less.  But please, do not combine the un-provable with locic.


What a "Christian"  thing to say.
  I submit you missed all of those lessons your God, your creator attempted to teach YOU.  Like love your fellow man and judge not less you be judged, let he who is without sin cast the first stone and so on.
  
  Why is it that people get to pick and choose their sins?

Go back and read my attack on you
Trying to have a reasonable debate with you is like trying to pick up a turd by the clean end! It just can't happen
You will one day will stand in front of your maker!

What was unreasonable that he said ? And you know he will meet his maker how ? Having faith is just that, faith.

[Bighead]

I just want you both to remember this when it happens! I am done with this subject as the blind will never see.

[The emperor has no clothes]

I just want you both to remember this when it happens! I am done with this subject as the blind will never see.

I think this thread will be the least of my worries when it happens. I'm not saying that it won't. I'm just saying it's just faith that leads you to believe it. Not scientific proof .

[Fathertime]

I just want you both to remember this when it happens! I am done with this subject as the blind will never see.

Promise?

And honestly.  Remember what "this" when what "it" happens?

[MP]

http://www.amazingbible.org/Documents/Bible_Studies/Sin_list_part_6.htm

I guess you didn't see that marriage is supposed to be between one man and one woman. That they were created this way.

Who says?

Scientists. Doctors. Geneticists.

ALL say men and women are different genetically and medically. Do you deny science?

[Fathertime]

http://www.amazingbible.org/Documents/Bible_Studies/Sin_list_part_6.htm

I guess you didn't see that marriage is supposed to be between one man and one woman. That they were created this way.

Who says?

Scientists. Doctors. Geneticists.

ALL say men and women are different genetically and medically. Do you deny science?

Well, if your going to get TECHNICAL and all.....   
No, I don't deny science.  But I do believe the poster was referring to biblical creationism.  Reference to the phrase "they were CREATED this way".
Many (not all) scientists, doctors and geneticists do not subscribe creationism.  I do not either.

[Robert]

This supposed mythical God sure has a way of showing Himself in the design of the universe and all the things around us. Like the complex coding of DNA that does not happen by chance. Its the unanswered questions that we ask ourselves about the world around us that reveal a Creator. Things that science just cannot seem to answer.

Math designed by man, maybe but its kind of funny how math seems to explain so much of the universe and creation that was already here. Even to finding out many designs of the world we know are mathematically correct.

[Fathertime]

Like the complex coding of DNA that does not happen by chance. Its the unanswered questions that we ask ourselves about the world around us that reveal a Creator.

Its the unanswered questions that we ask ourselves about the world around us that reveal the need to ask, what scientific observations have been made, or experiments conducted to help me formulate a hypothesis?

  Or even better, why the hell did he hide all those fossils so cleverly so we could come up, incorrectly with evolution?
Is he trying to trick us?  Lie to us?  If trickery is afoot, why should we believe homosexuals will burn in hell?

  But wait, he says he's a loving sky fairy.  But he created hell to punish us.  But he loves us.......

  I'm sorry I have to beat the crap out of you, Sally, but you made me do it.

Sheesh.

[Robert]

Actually I have seen life and our own choices beat the crap out of some of us. I have only known Him to guide me and those that ask of Him out of and away from trouble. He has rescued me a few times from situations that in my own decisions have been less than stellar. In my life He has been a friend a Father and Helper that I have needed. Even in times I dont spend time with Him, He has never left me. He is never far and always close, He is not an absent landlord.

Hell was not created for us and is not an issue for those that find the joy and peace of the Lord. The thrill of exploration awaits those who find Him at the point of their questioning.

We need not let any preconceived idea or supposed sin stop us from looking. He will deal with them all, He only says come, again our choice.

As to why we need to seemingly find Him, I can only answer if we find something we usually value it since we are usually looking for it. We remember the thrill of finding something we have been looking for along time. Even in science we take our lives and pour them out for the thrill of discovery, so how much more is the Creator of the universe worth exploring for?

[hubcapsc]

I first saw this cartoon about 40 years ago. Back then I was
taking Calculus and Linear Algebra in college, and I though it
was about me... a miracle was certainly going to have to
occur for me to get though those problems 



I now see it as a statement that it is a mistake to try and mix
science and salvation.

It is possible that the cartoonist intended it as an expression
debunking salvation.

It is certainly  true that many scientists (and fathertime), who know nothing
about salvation, are hateful atheists... it is important not to confuse
science with these scientists... I see many people who think they have
to choose one or the other.

Everything in the Bible is in there for a reason, and I don't know what
all of the reasons are. I don't know why there's a story in there about
a 900 year old guy who spends 100 years building a wooden boat
the size of an aircraft carrier in his backyard and fills it with duck billed
platypuses and wildebeests right before enough rain to flood out the
himalayas fell, but I'm sure its not there to keep me lost
and undone without Christ. It is unfortunate for some people that
they use it that way.

-Mike

[The emperor has no clothes]

I first saw this cartoon about 40 years ago. Back then I was
taking Calculus and Linear Algebra in college, and I though it
was about me... a miracle was certainly going to have to
occur for me to get though those problems  



I now see it as a statement that it is a mistake to try and mix
science and salvation.

It is possible that the cartoonist intended it as an expression
debunking salvation.

It is certainly  true that many scientists (and fathertime), who know nothing
about salvation, are hateful atheists... it is important not to confuse
science with these scientists... I see many people who think they have
to choose one or the other.

Everything in the Bible is in there for a reason, and I don't know what
all of the reasons are. I don't know why there's a story in there about
a 900 year old guy who spends 100 years building a wooden boat
the size of an aircraft carrier in his backyard and fills it with duck billed
platypuses and wildebeests right before enough rain to flood out the
himalayas fell, but I'm sure its not there to keep me lost
and undone without Christ. It is unfortunate for some people that
they use it that way.

-Mike

I would debate your opinion of atheists though. I see nothing hateful in what Fathertime has said. There have been more than a few hateful statements made by self professed Christians in this thread though.

[hubcapsc]

I would debate your opinion of atheists though.

Perhaps sometimes they're just unpleasantly and loudly disrespectful, rather
than hateful. But plenty of them are hateful. The Freedom From Religion crowd
who run around suing people who pray before town council meetings and who
are even suing about a subtle cross built into a stone wall at a water plant near
me where someone was killed in a construction accident...



-Mike

[The emperor has no clothes]

I would debate your opinion of atheists though.

Perhaps sometimes they're just unpleasantly and loudly disrespectful, rather
than hateful. But plenty of them are hateful. The Freedom From Religion crowd
who run around suing people who pray before town council meetings and who
are even suing about a subtle cross built into a stone wall at a water plant near
me where someone was killed in a construction accident...



-Mike

Granted. But you specifically said Fathertime was being hateful. I don't see it. But I have seen some pretty hateful statements from other supposed enlightened members.

[Rams]

It's all about perspective.   Not commenting on anyone's posts, just say'n, it depends on the reader's perspective.

[Wizzard]

I have found that a simple disagreement with some makes me hateful and a bully. Most of them seem to have the same affiliation with one thing. I wont say what.

[The emperor has no clothes]

I have found that a simple disagreement with some makes me hateful and a bully. Most of them seem to have the same affiliation with one thing. I wont say what.

Well my friend Wizzard, I hope I don't fall into that category. I'm not sure how I would classify myself. I believe there is a God. Other than that I can't really say. Sometimes I wish I was as sure as some people are. But it's hard for me to make that leap. But I sure don't begrudge you or anyone else who does.

[Fathertime]

I first saw this cartoon about 40 years ago. Back then I was
taking Calculus and Linear Algebra in college, and I though it
was about me... a miracle was certainly going to have to
occur for me to get though those problems 



I now see it as a statement that it is a mistake to try and mix
science and salvation.

It is possible that the cartoonist intended it as an expression
debunking salvation.

It is certainly  true that many scientists (and fathertime), who know nothing
about salvation, are hateful atheists... it is important not to confuse
science with these scientists... I see many people who think they have
to choose one or the other.

Everything in the Bible is in there for a reason, and I don't know what
all of the reasons are. I don't know why there's a story in there about
a 900 year old guy who spends 100 years building a wooden boat
the size of an aircraft carrier in his backyard and fills it with duck billed
platypuses and wildebeests right before enough rain to flood out the
himalayas fell, but I'm sure its not there to keep me lost
and undone without Christ. It is unfortunate for some people that
they use it that way.

-Mike

Hatefull?  Really?  Where?
I'll admit to snarky humour, I do that.  Sometime a lot.
But hateful?  I do believe that I have told people I don't care a bit about their beliefs, that if it makes them happy, no harm and no foul.  Just please don't try to convert me.  As a matter of fact, I LOVE conversations with people about their cultures and religions.

Did the record, I'd classify myself as agnostic and insulted by your generation of me.

[hubcapsc]

I'd classify myself as agnostic

An agnostic is one "who believes that nothing is known or can be known
of the existence or nature of God"...

You said:

Or even better, why the hell did he hide all those fossils so cleverly so we could come up, incorrectly with evolution?
Is he trying to trick us?  Lie to us?  If trickery is afoot, why should we believe homosexuals will burn in hell?


You claim to be agnostic but you speak (and rudely so) as an atheist.

And Homosexuals won't burn in hell anymore than I will... they're sinners, like me.
A whole bunch of them are unrepentant and reject Jesus, though, so they might
be in trouble there...

Just please don't try to convert me.

Your salvation is up to you, not me. If I set a poor example, perhaps
you'll eventually meet someone who does not.

-Mike

[Wizzard]

I'd classify myself as agnostic

An agnostic is one "who believes that nothing is known or can be known
of the existence or nature of God"...

You said:

Or even better, why the hell did he hide all those fossils so cleverly so we could come up, incorrectly with evolution?
Is he trying to trick us?  Lie to us?  If trickery is afoot, why should we believe homosexuals will burn in hell?


You claim to be agnostic but you speak (and rudely so) as an atheist.

And Homosexuals won't burn in hell anymore than I will... they're sinners, like me.
A whole bunch of them are unrepentant and reject Jesus, though, so they might
be in trouble there...

Just please don't try to convert me.

Your salvation is up to you, not me. If I set a poor example, perhaps
you'll eventually meet someone who does not.

-Mike

Well stated Mike  
From my experience all i have to do is practice my faith quietly and if certain people don't agree with me, I really don't care,, fact is, ,they get upset that I don't agree with them! And then i am a bully.

[Robert]

I don't know much about Fathertime but I do know he is has not been hateful.

I have also found 2 other things that I cannot agree with first God knows measurements, math and science like no one else. A great example is the Noahs Arc but what really is amazing is the exact details of the tabernacle that the Jews took with them. It was portable and made with Gold, bronze and materials that all meant something. It was in no way put together haphazardly it was very specific in dimensions and materials. It takes sometime to really understand how it was constructed.  

You find out that God is extremely detailed.

The other thing I have learned is atheists are not mean. I have had some change and have a born again experience that were amazing. They were made by God just as we were, and have the same desires and hopes and dreams as we all do. One of my nephews biggest supporters in the military as a Chaplin was an atheist. I can identify with them in one area, if God touches their heart and they have an experience with God there is nothing that will change them back. They look for a someone who is genuine and truthful much like us all but to them its much more important to have truth. I wonder if Doubting Thomas would have been considered an atheist today.

I also remember an example of a person who used to kill Christians yet go on to become one of the strongest Christians ever after God touched his heart. In fact the Christians at the time were even afraid to speak or accept him at first. Paul was a pharisee of pharisees yet when Jesus touched him he was a changed man.

[Wizzard]

I have found that a simple disagreement with some makes me hateful and a bully. Most of them seem to have the same affiliation with one thing. I wont say what.

Well my friend Wizzard, I hope I don't fall into that category. I'm not sure how I would classify myself. I believe there is a God. Other than that I can't really say. Sometimes I wish I was as sure as some people are. But it's hard for me to make that leap. But I sure don't begrudge you or anyone else who does.

No worries. I respect your input always