I've had enough!

[solo1]

I don't post much on here any more but I wanted to mention that the local Ft. Wayne conservative newspaper will be publishing a Guest Column with my byline.  Unfortunately, the Ft. Wayne News Sentinel quit publishing as a newspaper but has a page or so in the surviving Journal Gazette, a super liberal newspaper. The Good news is that the JG has a bigger circulation so more people will read it.  

The column is in regards to the beating that the NRA has taken in the media and I'm getting damn tired of it. I know that I opened myself up to all of the 'keyboard commandos' out there since the JG and the NS are online too but I don't give a crap.  Not many NRA members speak up except to preach to the choir. IMO.

Here it is and I don't care what reaction that I get from the liberals reading the newspaper or the ones giving their crappy response anonymously  online..   I purposely made the AR-15/M-16 explanations simpler because of the ones who. hopefully, be reading it.


                                                      I've had enough!

I am a Korean War veteran, I am a member of the NRA, I have been teaching gun safety and responsibility for over 60 years.  I served as a city councilman and have been active in community affairs for over 30 years.  I am a recipient of The Sagamore of the Wabash. I have been insulted every day by those who denounce the NRA because I'm a member of that Association. .  I am mighty tired of all of the lies perpetrated by many who consider the National Rifle Association an evil organization. Five million members are being insulted and demeaned by ignorant and liberal leaning individuals who have no idea  what they are talking about AND they don't care. These lies are in the news constantly  There is even talk about 'killing' the NRA.  Meanwhile the news about the mentally deranged individual who pulled the trigger of a gun, is on the back burner.  Let's take a look at some facts.

Quoting professor John Lott, Phd,  a well known gatherer of facts not misinformation. I will attempt to pass on some truths that are lost in demonstrations by antigun people.

92% of all mass shootings, (defined as four or more persons killed)  are committed in gun free zones
More than half of the mass shooters were brought to the attention of the medical profession.
More than half of the shooters used more than one gun instead of so called 'high capacity” magazines
The AR-15 is a semi auto firing rifle (one pull for each shot) It is a 'lookalike' to an M-16 which is an assault rifle by military definition. An assault rifle is defined as capable of fully automatic firing (Hold the trigger down and it will continually fire). The AR-15 is NOT an assault rifle!  The original definition has been changed by the media (do you believe the media?) The same people who know nothing about guns. The media has claimed that the AR-15 fires a super powerful bullet but the truth is that it cannot be used in Indiana for hunting deer as it is considered not powerful enough!
Another fallacy. “guns should be regulated and registered just like cars”  NO.  In Indiana, driving a car is considered a 'privilege” owning a firearm is a “Right' under the Constitution” Another statistic follows. Total firearm deaths for persons 15 to 24 years old in the US  from all causes in 2014 was 5800.  Total   motor vehicles deaths for persons 15 to 24 years old from all causes in 2014 was 6700.  Both are trending down..  Safer cars, better firearm safety training would be the logical conclusion.  

Another conclusion can be made.  More women are coming into the shooting sports.  Once considered as men's territory, the ladies are finding that it works for them.

Former Vice president Biden was quoted  roughly as saying this to women who were concerned about safety. “Shoot a 12 gauge shotgun up in the air, problem solved.” A violation of law and somewhat demeaning..  Instead, note that there has been an increase of 270% of women obtaining a concealed weapon permit from the period 2007 to 2015. Biden was out of touch.  Many of these women have joined the NRA.and are part of that association which some have wanted 'killed'   I say to those with that mindset, I don't think that is a good idea.

Lastly, I note that someone in Indiana's school system has said to not arm the teachers.  She mentioned that they have enough trouble with losing keys.(?)  I believe that volunteer teachers can be trained to protect their students with deadly force as needed and that certainly fits into their calling.  A few, or even one well trained volunteer teacher would be a  deterrent.  Police, by definition, react. not proact.  Reaction should be measured in seconds, not minutes.

Time is of the essence to protect the precious lives in the schools.  After all, the welcoming signs “Gun Free Zones” would be taken down . We live in a violent society and another gun law, of any kind, would do nothing except harass those who have the Right of Self Defense.

[Ramie]

Well said!

[Smokinjoe-VRCCDS#0005]

Well thought out .... Give'em Hell Wayne 

[Ken aka Oil Burner]

Well said, Wayne.

I went to the Journal Gazette's website and searched around a bit. Liberal is an understatement, and that's coming from a Massachusetts native. I have avoided the indoctrination for decades.

When your stories are published, please post a link to them. If there is a comment section, I'd be glad to back you up. I'm no stranger to the liberal slugfest. I stay calm, calculated, avoid name-calling, and hit back with facts and common sense. Drives them crazy.

[Firefighter]

Do all you can! Thank you for all your efforts, we are at war with the liberals, they will say and do anything to get their power back, and yes they want to take our guns away.

[peter]

Respectfully disagree. Teachers carrying guns is a bad idea. My wife is a teacher and having her learn warfare techniques as part of her job description is unfathomable. Automatic weapons have no utility except for the purpose for which they are made - for soldiers at war.  The victims of careless gun control are our kids and it's heartening to see they are doing something about it. None of you may be targets but your kids sure are...and yet you still won't budge on simple background checks, age limits, automatic weapon restrictions and other common sense measures to try and get the US from being the most dangerous nation in the world when it comes to firearms.

I know my views are not going far on a motorcycle site...but I'm curious what the reaction will be to what I'm trying to convey in a rational manner.
Peter

[The emperor has no clothes]

Respectfully disagree. Teachers carrying guns is a bad idea. but I'm curious what the reaction will be to what I'm trying to convey in a rational manner.
Peter

My prediction is not well.

[old2soon]

That gnarly old Retired Female Sargent I ride with sent me a comparative list of some "reasons" for deaths that are Not from projectile firing weapons. Wayne your narrative is well thought out and well presented. And-yes-here come da but! Even IF the people that Should read it and again-IF-they do in fact read it they most likely will sluff it off because you are an N R A Member in good standing. Your narrative and your Facts in no way shape or form Fit THEIR Agenda.   And Their agenda-well in what they pass off for a mind-is the most important thing far as they are concerned. WHAT ever you do Wayne-do not confuse the issue at hand with FACTS!   RIDE SAFE.

[solo1]

Teachers carrying guns is a bad idea. My wife is a teacher and having her learn warfare techniques as part of her job description is unfathomable. Automatic weapons have no utility except for the purpose for which they are made - for soldiers at war.  The victims of careless gun control are our kids and it's heartening to see they are doing something about it. None of you may be targets but your kids sure are...and yet you still won't budge on simple background checks, age limits, automatic weapon restrictions and other common sense measures to try and get the US from being the most dangerous nation in the world when it comes to firearms. Quote by Peter.


I respectfully and totally disagree with most of what you said.    You have shown an ignorance of the difference between a fully automatic assault rifle and a semi automatic.  I can't blame you because of the constant barrage of the idiotic media and politicians.  Like many, you don't know the meaning of the 2nd Amendment either.  Do you have any idea of how many AR-15's are out there?  If you think that they will be done away with by law, and confiscated successfully, you are mistaken.  The silent majority hasn't spoken yet.

I do heartily agree with you and your wife, she has the experience to know about arming teachers.  It is a damn shame that we have individuals who want to harm kids and that's where the emphasis should be ,on the DERANGED ONE who pulls the trigger of an inanimate object.  Arming a well trained person at the schools is partly the answer. Only teachers willing to volunteer should be recruited.  If you think that curtailing the legal use of an inanimate object will solve the problems,, you are not living in the times.  Once again, I see your position but I have little patience for those that are driven by ignorance of the facts. I don't pretend to be a teacher, so don't pretend to be an expert on how to stop school shootings.  BTW, there are 20,000 "common sense" laws and I am tired of hearing that BS after some 80 years of responsible gun ownership..  They haven't worked against the criminals and mentally disturbed yet.

[northernvalk]

Automatic weapons have no utility except for the purpose for which they are made - for soldiers at war. 

Or...people who can't shoot! Spray and pray is a motto used more often than it should!!!!

[solo1]

Or...people who can't shoot! Spray and pray is a motto used more often than it should!!!!
QUOTE by Northern Valk

Yes, I do agree, there are some who do that. Even LEO's do that under duress.However, if you're referring to fully automatic firearms, I would once again remind you Canadians and others that the Firearms Act of 1934 prohibits the owning of fully automatic firearms by US citizens unless you pay out real dough and pass a severe Federal check.

I will NOT leave any one get by with confusing fully automatic firing with semi automatic firing.

[solo1]

Dennis, I appreciate your point.  However, what I'm trying to do is get gun owners off top dead center and be more vocal where it counts, the public forum.

There are too many liars out there doing the opposite.

[GiG]

There are too many liars out there doing the opposite.

You are definitely an expert on that topic!

[solo1]

Thank you for YOUR expert opinion, Gig, 

[3fan4life]

Respectfully disagree. Teachers carrying guns is a bad idea. My wife is a teacher and having her learn warfare techniques as part of her job description is unfathomable. Automatic weapons have no utility except for the purpose for which they are made - for soldiers at war.  The victims of careless gun control are our kids and it's heartening to see they are doing something about it. None of you may be targets but your kids sure are...and yet you still won't budge on simple background checks, age limits, automatic weapon restrictions and other common sense measures to try and get the US from being the most dangerous nation in the world when it comes to firearms.

I know my views are not going far on a motorcycle site...but I'm curious what the reaction will be to what I'm trying to convey in a rational manner.
Peter

I am against forcing teachers to carry guns in school.

I am for allowing teachers to carry guns in school if they choose to go through the training.

The fact that you think it's possible to buy a gun at a gun show or from a dealer without undergoing a background check.

Shows that your only knowledge of this comes from the rhetoric that the anti gunners want you to believe.

The only way to purchase a gun without a background check is to purchase it directly from another individual.

And there are some that want to prevent that.

Guns are not and have never been the problem.

When someone drives drunk nobody screams to ban cars or alcohol.

The same common sense line of thinking should apply to gun crime as well.

And yes I want our children protected.

But they don't need to be protected from guns.

They need to be protected from bad guys with guns.

And that is best accomplished by good guys with guns.

If guns are taken away from all of the good guys then only bad guys will have them.

And our children won't be safe anywhere.

[Robert]

Wayne keep up the good work, common you knew it wasn't going to go easy, but cannot think of someone better suited for the job. 

As for arming teachers I am all for it, now does that mean every teacher, of course not. Some are not equipped trained or willing or in fact have made the commitment to defend themselves much less the students. I don't mean commitment in a bad way either, it takes a determination and resolve which some don't posses.

As for why this needs to be now, as far as legislation is a curiosity, since no one has addressed the total lack of competence on the Sheriffs dept or the FBI. Once these get addressed, the sheriff gets fired and departmental procedure changes and with the new law already on the books, that the police can seize the guns from those who are acting erratic or by a report from family, I don't see the need for any other legislation.

I certainly don't see a logical approach from the left to address these issues or admit in this case nothing could have been done as this was a person who legally owned a firearm. I see a lot of hysterics and NO, NADA, NOTHING on accountability and I will be cursed to want new legislation when there is no basis in fact and laws that are in place especially with the new law are enough.

I have to question why all the information that is available is being withheld at the police and government level about this situation also. OR why is it that the parents haven't been all over the sheriff and government to hold them accountable rather than put some big mouth kid to push gun control. I personally would be all over these people if my child was one that was shot and not listen to the talking heads.

As for the media its really a sad day, since they have actively endorsed gun control and pushed away any other opinion. I am amazed at the sheep and disappointed at the lack of backbone and intelligence in addressing an issue. Not only the issue of gun control but what happens if there is no guns and losing our constitutional rights or denying your fellow citizen the right to keep a gun of choice. I have always wanted to listen to those who wanted more control on guns but now, forget it.

So if you want gun control then stop the hype, be open to discussion and reason and address the responsibility issue and then we can talk and be on the same side.

This was not a bad day at work or school for some, people died and no heads have rolled especially no sheriffs or FBI. If you cannot address this then don't address gun control. If you want to honor the memory of those fallen then arrest the perpetrators not just the one that performed the act, don't allow murders to go free.

[northernvalk]

Or...people who can't shoot! Spray and pray is a motto used more often than it should!!!!
QUOTE by Northern Valk

Yes, I do agree, there are some who do that. Even LEO's do that under duress.However, if you're referring to fully automatic firearms, I would once again remind you Canadians and others that the Firearms Act of 1934 prohibits the owning of fully automatic firearms by US citizens unless you pay out real dough and pass a severe Federal check.

I will NOT leave any one get by with confusing fully automatic firing with semi automatic firing.

I have a feeling you know as well as I do that a well cared for and set up semi is more deadly than a full auto with the same sized clip (mag). We got spray and pray hunters here too, but at least they are limited to 5 rounds.....

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

Well said! Please do keep us informed when your blogs are published. And, thanks for taking the time to do this. 

[Jess from VA]

[solo1]

I have a feeling you know as well as I do that a well cared for and set up semi is more deadly than a full auto with the same sized clip (mag). We got spray and pray hunters here too, but at least they are limited to 5 rounds.....Quote.

I agree, sorta. Not much data on full auto but semi auto can be fast even with small mag capacity and allowing for mag changes.  One thing lost here. The larger the mag capacity the more spring tension the higher odds for misfeeds.  At any rate, many like big mags.(and they are legal at this time).  BTW, a lever action firing can be very fast too. Where to draw the line..............Never, a useless argument.

80 years ago, my dad filled my Model 69 Winchester 5 round mag with  5 .22 LR's and told me the limit on squirrels was five, one for each, no need to take extra ammo. I, personally, don't need big mags, too heavy but to each his own. Hunting mule deer I used one round from a four round mag.

[peter]

Well, I didn't get totally torched, so that's a good thing and frankly, unexpected. People like me want to see compromise. Keep your nonassault weapons, allow any qualified and stable individual to get a gun via extensive background checks, move the age limit to 21 and people will love you.  There is room for most of us to be satisfied. I don't hear ANYONE credible calling for the elimination of your arsonal or Second Ammendment rights.

Thanks for the constructive comments; this issue is not black and white, keep your mind open.
Peter

[phideux]

I don't think we should go around arming all the teachers. But, we shouldn't be disarming the ones already armed. If a teacher has a legally owned weapon, is licensed to carry it, or any school employee for that matter, don't take that away from them by making schools a gun free zone. We have already seen that the ones bent on committing theses acts don't follow the rules and bring their weapons onto school grounds. Stop making the law abiding folks disarm before going on school property.
What do you think would have been a better alternative in that Florida shooting??? That idiot going into the first classroom and being met with a poor teacher huddled into the corner trying to shield the kids while he shoots away????? Or that idiot going through that first door and being met with  teacher protecting her kids with a Glock and a 15rd mag lighting him up??? I know which classroom I'd want my kid in.

What would have stopped this massacre??? How about "See something, say something"??? The FBI was warned by the students beforehand that this idiot was going to do this, they were too busy looking under rocks for Russians. They saw something and said something, nobody listened. The cops were at this idiots house over 30 times "investigating things", but did nothing. The same cops who showed up on scene less than 2 minutes into a 7 minute shooting spree at a gun free zone, cowered and hid outside while he continued to kill kids, and told all the other incoming cops not to go in there either.
But yet, all the fine Americans are blaming the gun.
A gun in the first teachers hand could have stopped all this, the first arriving coward cops gun could have stopped all this, what is the liberal solution?? Disarm all the good people.

An assault weapon is a fully automatic, military issued weapon. yes they are legal to buy, but tightly controlled, very expensive and require a background check and tax stamp to own. You cannot make a semi-auto firearm into a fully auto weapon in minutes with a file or dremel, no matter what the fake media tells you. There is no gun show loophole. You cannot come down from New Jersey or Chicago to the Carolinas, walk into the local gun store and by all the weapons you want to bring back home and arm all your ganbanger buddies. You can't buy all the guns you want off the internet, unless you are a dealer with a Federal License. We have thousands of gun laws on the books, so few are enforced that it is a joke. Most violent criminals with guns, get caught and the first thing that happens is the gun part of the charges gets thrown out in a plea deal and the asshat judges turn them loose to prey on society again and again. The group that started the Federal Background check system, The Brady Bunch, likes to tell you that the system has stopped millions of felons and prohibited people from getting a weapon, which in itself is a crime punishable by 10yrs in a Federal Penitentiary, yet they don't tell you that they only went after, arrested and prosecuted less than 200, Why??? Are more laws that will be ignored going to change anything???

If the USA banned guns do you think the criminals will be lining up to turn theirs in???

I have one liberal, asshat, anti-gun neighbor from of all places, of course, Jersey. He likes to joke that if the SHTF he's gonna come to my house because "I got all those guns". Think again buddy, you'll be the first bleeding unwelcome mat on the doorstep.

Texting and driving kills more kids every year than all the school shootings in the last 20yrs. When are you going to put readily available cell phone jammers into vehicles??? Isn't texting and driving against the law and killing our kids.

[Crazyhorse]

Very well said.

[solo1]

Phiduex, Right on!

Peter, We'll educate you yet. We will keep our non assault rifles, the AR-15's.  The military does not regard them as assault rifles and neither do the gun owners, that's for the idiotic media and pols to define.

Question?  Why does three years make a difference in ability to own a firearm. Why does the Armed Forces think that 18 year olds are capable to use assault rifles while politicians want three more years to make them capable of using NON ASSAULT rifles?  Yeah, I'll keep harpin' on this dumb reasoning.

[Willow]

Phiduex, Right on!

Peter, We'll educate you yet. We will keep our non assault rifles, the AR-15's.  ...  

 Not likely.  People will be educated only when they are interested in being educated otherwise by their own choice they will remain ignorant.

With school shootings, very rare occurrences, the liberals and their media renew the demand for more limits on fully automatic weapons.  Can anyone give me a list of the school shootings that involved automatic weapons?  

[Bigwolf]

Respectfully disagree. Teachers carrying guns is a bad idea. My wife is a teacher and having her learn warfare techniques as part of her job description is unfathomable. Automatic weapons have no utility except for the purpose for which they are made - for soldiers at war.  The victims of careless gun control are our kids and it's heartening to see they are doing something about it. None of you may be targets but your kids sure are...and yet you still won't budge on simple background checks, age limits, automatic weapon restrictions and other common sense measures to try and get the US from being the most dangerous nation in the world when it comes to firearms.

I know my views are not going far on a motorcycle site...but I'm curious what the reaction will be to what I'm trying to convey in a rational manner.
Peter

Well Peter, I disagree with everything you have said here.  I am firmly convinced that teachers who are well trained and comfortable with that responsibility must be discreetly carrying guns as the only true final and ultimate defense against these tragedies.  Resource Officers are great but teachers are closer to the children when things go wrong.

You talk about firearms as if they are the problem.  Are you aware that the largest mass school slaughter was accomplished not with a gun but with explosives?  That happened in Michigan a long time ago.  The school janitor got angry and packed the basement with dynamite.  Luckily it did not all go off or the death toll would have been much worse.  When Australia banned most of their guns, the numbers of crimes with guns did drop drastically  but the crimes were still committed.  The death rate per capita in Australia did not change.  Instead of firearms, they just used other means to achieve the crime.  I suggest reading the raw data compiled by the Australian bureau of records.  Other articles written about the results of their "Firearms Agreement Act" of 1996 are misleading.

Automatic weapons ..... - .... for soldiers at war.  I misspoke, I do agree with this one sentence.  However, you seem to imply that civilians should not be allowed to posses such weapons.  It is that implication that I disagree with.  Solo1 has pointed out that full automatic firearms are already illegal for civilians unless that civilian passes stringent background checks and also pays a heavy fee beyond the cost of the firearm.  That law, passed in 1946, was and is in direct violation of the intent of the second amendment.  The second amendment was written to give civilians equal weaponry in the event they might have to counter or go to war with a run away and corrupt government.  I doubt that many of us could afford to keep an F16, Apache helicopter, a few drones, Stealth bomber, and a cache of MP5s and M16s but maybe a few full autos and some determined civilians could make a difference if it came to that.

You may be thinking; "That's crazy!"  I would like to think that too but I know it can and does happen.  Consider the battle of Athens, TN.  You may not have heard of it before.  Here is a link to 1 of many articles about it: https://www.americanheritage.com/content/battle-athens  Had some of these GIs not had access to the National Guard Armory, things might have turned out differently.

Age limits - ... Really?  Over 20% of our military are age 18 to 21 and we send them into towns and cities in countries around the world with fully automatic firearms in their hands.  We expect them, not just to route the enemy, but to police some of these municipalities.  Then when they come home from active duty we are going to tell them we don't trust them with such firearms in our towns and cities.  Why?  What kind of message does that send to our military?  What message to our young men?  What message does it send to those cities around the world that we sent them to with fully automatic firearms and much more?

Solo1,  Thank you for posting.  As always, you have made a good effort and a well thought out post.  I too have had more than enough of the liberal machine deluge of misinformation and outright lies.  I too have begun to speak up with the hope that I might reach a few people willing to dig past the rhetoric and get to the real truth.

Bigwolf

[Bigwolf]

Phiduex, Right on!

Peter, We'll educate you yet. We will keep our non assault rifles, the AR-15's.  ...  

 Not likely.  People will be educated only when they are interested in being educated otherwise by their own choice they will remain ignorant.

With school shootings, very rare occurrences, the liberals and their media renew the demand for more limits on fully automatic weapons.  Can anyone give me a list of the school shootings that involved automatic weapons?  

So true Willow!  Andy Rooney said it well.  Simon and Garfunkel sang a song about it.

I have no such list........check with the liberals.  I am sure they can manufacture one.

Bigwolf

[Pete]

Phiduex, Right on!

Peter, We'll educate you yet. We will keep our non assault rifles, the AR-15's.  ...  

 Not likely.  People will be educated only when they are interested in being educated otherwise by their own choice they will remain ignorant.

With school shootings, very rare occurrences, the liberals and their media renew the demand for more limits on fully automatic weapons.  Can anyone give me a list of the school shootings that involved automatic weapons?  

With legal full auto NONE ever according to ATF and FBI.

[Jess from VA]

Wayne, I appreciate you taking the time to write our (the right, constitutional, factually correct, and honest) side of the story.

I've had enough for a long time.

I think the left will never learn, cannot be re-educated, are beyond redemption, and are nothing but a syphilitic virus on humanity (and our country).  In all things, but especially when it comes to the 2d Amendment.  My thoughts on the left pretty much go straight to the endgame.  If they bring endgame to my doorstep, then I will participate with all my skills and abilities in holy war.  Short of that, I ignore them, vote against them, do what I can to fund their opponents, and try my best to never do business with them or any who love them.  

I've pretty much given up wasting any time on trying to change their minds on anything.  I just wish they'd stop trying to change my mind, on anything.

The recent surge in antigun HS kids is interesting though.  From a completely objective point of view, they certainly have a moral right to stand up and make noise about getting shot to pieces in their schools.  It's just too bad they've been co-opted by the left, who care nothing for human life, only their agendas.  A more informed, intelligent and practical youth might have instead decided to put their efforts into having good guys with guns protect them.  Something that might actually work.  Apparently they are not informed, intelligent or practical.    

[Pete]

The recent surge in antigun HS kids is interesting though.  From a completely objective point of view, they certainly have a moral right to stand up and make noise about getting shot to pieces in their schools.

Just to add ---- But they should make intelligent noise and demand protection not some feel good non effective bull$hit from some political hack.

[Pete]

Well, I didn't get totally torched, so that's a good thing and frankly, unexpected. People like me want to see compromise. Keep your nonassault weapons, allow any qualified and stable individual to get a gun via extensive background checks, move the age limit to 21 and people will love you.  There is room for most of us to be satisfied. I don't hear ANYONE credible calling for the elimination of your arsonal or Second Ammendment rights.

Thanks for the constructive comments; this issue is not black and white, keep your mind open.
Peter

NO, please do not take this personal. It not directed at you but is directed towards all object control freaks.

Peter I will keep all my "assault and non assault" weapons, as that is my right. There is no longer any room for discussion the discussion is over. After 20,000 failed gun laws, trying for 21,000 is stupid insanity.

And yes there are many calling for confiscation and elimination and the answer is NO.

And yes it is black and white "NO MORE STUPID Infringement LAWS that violate the constitution and individual rights.

The socialist gun controllers are convinced they can talk/force us into gun control without any serious repercussions. They are wrong, it is not going to happen. But what will happen is "it will get out of control and we will all be lucky to live thru it."

I  know they do not think so but they are wrong in a very serious way.

[Oss]

I sent another letter to the editors of several papers and senators and the white house
No responses as expected.
I think I may have posted it here.  This is the link
http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,99886.0.html

Peter you are to be commended for speaking up but I have to agree that you are mistaken
"background checks, age limits, automatic weapon restrictions"
Yes background checks help but if law enforcement turns a deaf ear to schools and mental health professionals pleading for intervention we
are worse than having no laws and that is what we have now

Police are reactive, not pro active and I mean no disrespect to our many present and former LEO's

An armed populace is as important to our country as white blood cells are important to your body.

We cant count on police to be there as 1 there are not enough of them and 2 it just isnt fair to them as that would make us sheep and 3 No law abiding citizen should be giving up ANY of their rights that the framers gave us to appease others

Common sense gun laws is the running of the mouth of Hillary Clinton, it is a nonsense not common sense thing as criminals will always find ways to hurt people, and they dont obey laws
Its why they are called criminals

Age limits  NO  all kids should be educated about gun safety. They are our future. In fact I wish, like Switzerland all adults were issued a rifle and ammo to qualify on a range EVERY year.  They have almost no murders with firearms by the way

Teachers should be carefully vetted before allowed to carry firearms in schools, not just because of the fact they may not qualify but also because their own students may turn on them  Many many teachers are attacked in schools.  I am concerned about the possibility that a gun could be taken from a teacher.  Maybe if the school provided gun lock that only the teacher could use the gun (if it exists in reality) I would be ok with it

Just my two cents
carry on

Oss

[da prez]

  A properly trained and willing teacher in the school is better than a phone call to ask (demand) help.
 Police have a training criteria to follow. If in the best case , the shooting would be over before they could respond. (maybe not over , but the damage done). To defend your self is an instant reaction , not one to be thought about. It takes a lot of training and mind set to react to a situation as we are discussing.
  I believe  that most every human would beat them selves up if they had to take another life. An armed trained person in the school may have to shoot another student. Where do you draw the line.
  If they hesitate , it may be to late.   
  A lot of us were in the military , but few have been in a combat situation. You do not know until it happens. Most talk of what they would do , but when faced with the trial , what would happen.
 The recent shooting where the student was shot and killed . I wonder if the parents will sue for use of excessive force. I hope not. How many lives did he save by taking out the gunman?

                                                      da prez 

[Alpha Dog]

I read a couple days back, one teacher wanted to arm his students with rocks to throw.  I also read where Sheriff Richard Jones of Butler County, OH,  just south of me had 500 applications from teachers ( so stated about 2 weeks ago ) who he would train for free.  That seems a better method for those willing and able to be trained.

Good on you Wayne,  good on you indeed.

[Rams]

Well, I didn't get totally torched, so that's a good thing and frankly, unexpected. People like me want to see compromise. Keep your nonassault weapons, allow any qualified and stable individual to get a gun via extensive background checks, move the age limit to 21 and people will love you.  There is room for most of us to be satisfied. I don't hear ANYONE credible calling for the elimination of your arsonal or Second Ammendment rights.

Thanks for the constructive comments; this issue is not black and white, keep your mind open.
Peter

Compromise......    Hmmmmm........

Consider this.   Someone wishes to make a statement or, go out in some kind of misguided blaze of glory.   Where could such a person find a target rich environment?    Hmmmm how about a "Gun Free Zone"????????    Those who enter that "Zone" are not allowed to have any personal protection.....   
Just my opinion but, in most cases the police are only minutes away.    Will that person need an automatic weapon to do the intended damage?     Knowing that generally sheep will scatter, run and hide, the aggressor could use almost any weapon of choice to do the intended damage.   

May I assume you also wish to change the age of a person for the right to vote?
Seems like the legal age to consume alcohol would also fall into this realm?
Oh yeah, let us not forget the legal age to serve our country........

Seems funny to me that we all seem to have no issue with those age defined issues and yet, the same folks that we allow to vote, serve their country and to legally drink alcohol in most states and are considered mature enough to vote are not mature enough to purchase a weapon which, is a constitutional right.    

BTW, no one is going to force any teacher to carry a gun.   Not your wife, not the Principle or the janitor, only those who are willing to do so.      Just where did you get the idea your wife would be forced to carry?   

Seems to me that we should make cell phones illegal while operating vehicles.   A lot more folks die due to stupid cell phone users.   Does your wife use a cell phone?

No, I am not a member of the NRA nor do I own a weapon but, I'll be cursed if I'll let anyone take away my right to self defense .    You can give away your rights if you chose to, pretty sure that no matter what law is passed, there will be another mass killing.    It takes a very limited mind to think that a gun is the best way to kill large numbers of sheep.     Gun Free Zones are full of sheep.

Rams

[Valker]

Respectfully disagree. Teachers carrying guns is a bad idea. My wife is a teacher and having her learn warfare techniques as part of her job description is unfathomable. Automatic weapons have no utility except for the purpose for which they are made - for soldiers at war.  The victims of careless gun control are our kids and it's heartening to see they are doing something about it. None of you may be targets but your kids sure are...and yet you still won't budge on simple background checks, age limits, automatic weapon restrictions and other common sense measures to try and get the US from being the most dangerous nation in the world when it comes to firearms.

I know my views are not going far on a motorcycle site...but I'm curious what the reaction will be to what I'm trying to convey in a rational manner.
Peter

As a public school teacher with 40, count ‘em, 40 years in the public school classroom, I think teachers who choose to and can pass the included tests should Be allowed to carry at school. I would start the day it was allowed in my district. Several of the districts around my area already have armed teachers. In one such district, the principal and front office people open carry. It’s been very successful for many years here. You probably haven’t heard of these districts since there have not been any attacks carried out against their students. They all have signs outside which say something like “Our staff are armed and will use deadly force to protect our students”.

[Rams]

Respectfully disagree. Teachers carrying guns is a bad idea. My wife is a teacher and having her learn warfare techniques as part of her job description is unfathomable. Automatic weapons have no utility except for the purpose for which they are made - for soldiers at war.  The victims of careless gun control are our kids and it's heartening to see they are doing something about it. None of you may be targets but your kids sure are...and yet you still won't budge on simple background checks, age limits, automatic weapon restrictions and other common sense measures to try and get the US from being the most dangerous nation in the world when it comes to firearms.

I know my views are not going far on a motorcycle site...but I'm curious what the reaction will be to what I'm trying to convey in a rational manner.
Peter

As a public school teacher with 40, count ‘em, 40 years in the public school classroom, I think teachers who choose to and can pass the included tests should Be allowed to carry at school. I would start the day it was allowed in my district. Several of the districts around my area already have armed teachers. In one such district, the principal and front office people open carry. It’s been very successful for many years here. You probably haven’t heard of these districts since there have not been any attacks carried out against their students. They all have signs outside which say something like “Our staff are armed and will use deadly force to protect our students”.

I appreciate your profession and your willingness to step up if called upon.   Not everyone can do that.    Some are simply not programmed that way.     I do understand that.    In a fight or flight scenario they will be fleeing or hiding and to be honest, that's probably their best chance for survival.    What I don't understand is why those who chose to be prey wish to deny those that are willing to stand up and provide some defense.    Just doesn't make sense to me.   Next they will want to disarm the police and the military I guess.  

Rams

[Jess from VA]

Respectfully disagree. Teachers carrying guns is a bad idea. My wife is a teacher and having her learn warfare techniques as part of her job description is unfathomable. Automatic weapons have no utility except for the purpose for which they are made - for soldiers at war.  The victims of careless gun control are our kids and it's heartening to see they are doing something about it. None of you may be targets but your kids sure are...and yet you still won't budge on simple background checks, age limits, automatic weapon restrictions and other common sense measures to try and get the US from being the most dangerous nation in the world when it comes to firearms.

I know my views are not going far on a motorcycle site...but I'm curious what the reaction will be to what I'm trying to convey in a rational manner.
Peter

As a public school teacher with 40, count ‘em, 40 years in the public school classroom, I think teachers who choose to and can pass the included tests should Be allowed to carry at school. I would start the day it was allowed in my district. Several of the districts around my area already have armed teachers. In one such district, the principal and front office people open carry. It’s been very successful for many years here. You probably haven’t heard of these districts since there have not been any attacks carried out against their students. They all have signs outside which say something like “Our staff are armed and will use deadly force to protect our students”.

Thanks for sharing that Eric.  I had no idea that happened ANYWHERE.

I don't know what goes on in schools now, but when I attended, the Vice/Deputy/Assistant principle was the designated strong man and enforcer.  Not only at my school, but most in the surrounding area.  

I still remember Dominic Kastri; built like a Bulgarian wrestler, and not one (or 4) guys ever wanted to tangle with him.  He was not mean or abusive, but if you earned his attention, you got it.  Another guy and I were horsing around in the cafeteria line and it got to pushing, and others got involved.  He lifted me up by my shirt, and carried me for awhile with one arm, then set me down and shook me so hard, I think I lost three cavities (just a couple seconds).  I had it coming, and apologized... and I never horsed around like that again (except gym, where you could) (but if it got out of hand there, out came the 16 boxing gloves and in the ring you went).

It seems to me that staff as well as a select few teachers ought to be able to go armed.  And I said before, civilian volunteers (if the PD can't spare anyone) should also be available (good trained ones).

I think carry in schools is coming, one way or another, and certain staff positions should easily become the positions that fill this need (add it to the job description).  But anyone qualified, willing and of even temperament should be drafted.

[Serk]

I think carry in schools is coming, one way or another, and certain staff positions should easily become the positions that fill this need

No need... Just give the students buckets of rocks, don't ya' know...

https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/24/us/pennsylvania-school-students-armed-rocks-trnd/index.html

(Note Communist News Network link, so you know it's not fake news!)

[Skinhead]

I think carry in schools is coming, one way or another, and certain staff positions should easily become the positions that fill this need

No need... Just give the students buckets of rocks, don't ya' know...

https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/24/us/pennsylvania-school-students-armed-rocks-trnd/index.html

(Note Communist News Network link, so you know it's not fake news!)

Folks from PA, at least western PA, Have good arms.  But I still don't recommend taking rocks to a gun fight.  They just don't have the range.