Senator McCain's funeral....

[Oss]

Does anyone actually remember the debates??

Everyone of those "Other" republicans trash talked Trump and the media was against him especially because he raised his hand to say he would consider going it alone if he did not get the elephants nod

Once I went to a wake of a "very bad" man who had done my father wrong  I wanted to be sure the SOB was dead

I did not piss on his grave, but the thought occurred to me

My father was proud of me for attending the wake and honoring his widow, as he was too infirm to travel to it

Now the deceased senator stated he wanted no part of the sitting POTUS  That was his right and privilege.

Trump can not control his mouth or his tweets, that is part of his defect and his genius as he goes around the media in another dimension to reach the people,

Like Willow I will say nothing bad of McCain in this forum and choose to honor his service.  I will also not denigrate the POTUS at this time.

YMMV as you see fit

[retirednavy]

Wow! Talk about brainwashed

[Rams]

Nice comment for me giving 20 years to my country what did you do?!

Registered August, 2018 and new to this forum I see.

May I suggest you spend a little time and learn a bit about others on this forum before you start challenging their qualifications and what I they have done.     

Rams

[retirednavy]

Same

[carolinarider09]

I apologize in advance for the long post.

I read the message posted by 98valk with interest.  So I did some personal research using my preferred search tool “Duckduckgo”.  I did not have to type in much until the suggested search topic was about this incident.  Here is what I have gleaned from a review of the information on line.


McCaine was not personally at fault for the Forestal fire.  A missile went off in the plane behind him which penetrated the fuel tank of a plan ahead and McCaine was in a plane next to that plane.

Determining if McCaine left the flight deck to “rest” in the pilot’s lounge is a little more hard to substantiate.  When he left the Forrestal is also hard to determine.  

Having served in the U. S. Navy for six years (one aboard the USS Wasp CVS-18 and a little more than three on the USS Patrick Henry, SSBN-599B).  I can tell you two things.  First flight deck operations are extremely dangerous operations.  Make one wrong move and bad things can happen.  The Airedales that ran the flight deck were disciplined and their moves well planned. To be otherwise was hazardous to their health.  But mistakes do happen.

The flight crews always joined the carrier after we were underway and left before we docked.  Their task was to fly the planes.  Having said that, I have no doubt, from those I met while on board the USS Wasp, that all of them, to a man, would have joined in fighting the fires.  They were still shipmates.

The same was true for my time on the Patrick Henry.  We were not all the best of friends but when the hatches closed we were as one.  It is the only way it would work.

Since pilots were needed in that war, I have no doubt they would be re-assigned to other carries since their’s was an integral part of the war.  And since the Forrestal was no longer a valid combat weapon, it would not be unlikely that the pilots would be transferred to another carrier as soon as possible.

From what I can find on the web, the A-4 did not have an after burner, so a wet start was not possible.  When the Wasp was in the Mediterranean while I was on board, we had to have “attack” aircraft on board.  A-4s were assigned to ship.  I witnessed several cat shots and don't remember seeing an afterburner in use from the A-4.  But that was a long time ago.

I have no love lost for McCaine.  I have a love of facts and the well mannered and disciplined reporting of such.  

I post this because it behoves us all to understand and know, to the best of our abilities ,the facts before we pronounce them as such.  Using search engines to find facts is an arduous task these days.  It is important we all understand that.

[Rams]

Same

Well, I did go to the effort to look at your profile.     
No address, no birthdate, not much info to go by there and since you are so new to the forum, who knows what about you......   I'm always curious as to why someone would join such a group and then not at least provide general information......   And yet, you challenge folks like your 20 years of service gives you some special privilege here, it gives you no more than mine or any one else. 

Rams

[retirednavy]

Wow! I know you rams

[Rams]

I apologize in advance for the long post.

I read the message posted by 98valk with interest.  So I did some personal research using my preferred search tool “Duckduckgo”.  I did not have to type in much until the suggested search topic was about this incident.  Here is what I have gleaned from a review of the information on line.


McCaine was not personally at fault for the Forestal fire.  A missile went off in the plane behind him which penetrated the fuel tank of a plan ahead and McCaine

Thanks for posting that.   Have read it before but could not remember where.     

Rams

[Rams]

Wow! I know you rams

Sorry Navy, I don't swing that way.  

Former Marine Jar Head (grunt) and US Army officer, artillery, RW Aviator/test pilot.

Rams

[retirednavy]

Well that explains everything rams

[MAD6Gun]

Clinton raped at least three women that we know of.

Damn... that is a pretty serious accusation. Do you have proof? If so, please forward it to the authorities otherwise you are complicit to a crime.

Don't? So I got quote (supposedly*) Lincoln:
"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt."

*https://quoteinvestigator.com/2010/05/17/remain-silent/

Got any proof he isn't a rapist?  Ever heard of Paula Jones,Juanita Broadderick,Kathleen Willey. They all accused Bill Clinton of either rape or sexual misconduct. One to my recollection was even called a slut by Hillary after a voilent incident with bill.  There is your proof. Now I know what you are going to say. That's not proof. But you see this is no different then you believing a porn star when she said she had sex with trump. Yeah maybe that happened maybe it didnt. BUT even she said it was consensual. Clinton,with these women not so much.

 Bill, like his crooked wife will never see the inside of a prison cel. The DC establishment will see to that.  

 So who's the fool now.huh?

[baldo]

https://www.theamericanconservative.com/.../mccain-and.../ https://www.alternet.org/.../i_spent_years_as_a_pow_with...


let’s remember what McCain’s real legacy is: His father was the Admiral in charge of the Pacific fleet prosecuting the war in
Vietnam Nam.

Because of this McCain got preferential treatment in the Navy. He was allowed to become a Navy pilot. But he was a terrible pilot.

McCain crashed two Navy Jets in his early career. Then while aboard the Aircraft Carrier USS Forrestal, McCain got angry because he had to wait in line to take off on a bombing run.

He shut off his engines, opened the cockpit, and in his haste to exit the aircraft to chew someone out about his having to ” wait”, he hit the button that released his live bombs onto the deck of the Forrestal.

He took off running, as the bombs exploded, which set off a chain reaction of bombs from adjacent aircraft, and the ensuing explosions and fires killed 133 sailors aboard the Forrestal.

While his fellow sailors were fighting the fire, McCain went to the pilot’s lounge below decks and watched the men fight the fire on closed circuit TV.

Hours later, McCain took off with a New York Times reporter buddy of his, and went on to say that after seeing the effects of those bombs on the Forrestal, he was beginning to question the morality of dropping those bombs on the Viet Cong.

McCain was the direct cause of 133 deaths on his own ship, and was never reprimanded. He was nowhere to be found as the Forrestal had to limp to the Philippines for months of repair work. https://theroperreportsite.wordpress.com/.../the-real.../

Proven to be total bullshit. But please, by all means. Keep spreading your ridiculous crap.

[Savago]

I'm am so sick of people calling Trump a Nazi,Hitler,Facist,dictator and a tyrant. Did I miss anything?

I agree with you on this. Calling Mr Trump nazi or Hitler or dictator is historically incorrect.

Context: I had in my mind the Scottish thinkers from 18th century (Adam Smith, David Hume, etc) view on the relation of the people and the relation with their rulers, which is why I wrote "If you are ruled by a Tyrant, it is not only your right to rebel, but actually your patriotic duty to do so. This is how this country was founded.".

Those Scottish influenced the Founding fathers decision to break with England. I read this book in my recent travel and planning to write a review about it:
https://www.amazon.com/How-Scots-Invented-Modern-World/dp/0609809997/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1535906107&sr=8-1&keywords=scottish+enlightenment

Funny thing is that the formal definition fits the bill pretty well...

From the dictionary: "Tyrant - noun - a cruel and oppressive ruler."

[Psychotic Bovine]

I'm am so sick of people calling Trump a Nazi,Hitler,Facist,dictator and a tyrant. Did I miss anything?

I agree with you on this. Calling Mr Trump nazi or Hitler or dictator is historically incorrect.

Context: I had in my mind the Scottish thinkers from 18th century (Adam Smith, David Hume, etc) view on the relation of the people and the relation with their rulers, which is why I wrote "If you are ruled by a Tyrant, it is not only your right to rebel, but actually your patriotic duty to do so. This is how this country was founded.".

Those Scottish influenced the Founding fathers decision to break with England. I read this book in my recent travel and planning to write a review about it:
https://www.amazon.com/How-Scots-Invented-Modern-World/dp/0609809997/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1535906107&sr=8-1&keywords=scottish+enlightenment

Funny thing is that the formal definition fits the bill pretty well...

From the dictionary: "Tyrant - noun - a cruel and oppressive ruler."

How has anyone been oppressed under President Trump?
I know, I know:  he hurts your feelings.  Suck it up, Buttercup!

[98valk]

I apologize in advance for the long post.

I read the message posted by 98valk with interest.  So I did some personal research using my preferred search tool “Duckduckgo”.  I did not have to type in much until the suggested search topic was about this incident.  Here is what I have gleaned from a review of the information on line.


McCaine was not personally at fault for the Forestal fire.  A missile went off in the plane behind him which penetrated the fuel tank of a plan ahead and McCaine was in a plane next to that plane.

Determining if McCaine left the flight deck to “rest” in the pilot’s lounge is a little more hard to substantiate.  When he left the Forrestal is also hard to determine.  

Having served in the U. S. Navy for six years (one aboard the USS Wasp CVS-18 and a little more than three on the USS Patrick Henry, SSBN-599B).  I can tell you two things.  First flight deck operations are extremely dangerous operations.  Make one wrong move and bad things can happen.  The Airedales that ran the flight deck were disciplined and their moves well planned. To be otherwise was hazardous to their health.  But mistakes do happen.

The flight crews always joined the carrier after we were underway and left before we docked.  Their task was to fly the planes.  Having said that, I have no doubt, from those I met while on board the USS Wasp, that all of them, to a man, would have joined in fighting the fires.  They were still shipmates.

The same was true for my time on the Patrick Henry.  We were not all the best of friends but when the hatches closed we were as one.  It is the only way it would work.

Since pilots were needed in that war, I have no doubt they would be re-assigned to other carries since their’s was an integral part of the war.  And since the Forrestal was no longer a valid combat weapon, it would not be unlikely that the pilots would be transferred to another carrier as soon as possible.

From what I can find on the web, the A-4 did not have an after burner, so a wet start was not possible.  When the Wasp was in the Mediterranean while I was on board, we had to have “attack” aircraft on board.  A-4s were assigned to ship.  I witnessed several cat shots and don't remember seeing an afterburner in use from the A-4.  But that was a long time ago.

I have no love lost for McCaine.  I have a love of facts and the well mannered and disciplined reporting of such.  

I post this because it behoves us all to understand and know, to the best of our abilities ,the facts before we pronounce them as such.  Using search engines to find facts is an arduous task these days.  It is important we all understand that.

Thanks for clearly that up, sometimes can't keep up with all the info out there.
And far as I know the A-4s did not have an afterburners, but the F-14 Tomcats did. early models used the afterburners to cat launch, later models with more powerful engines did not need afterburners to cat launch.  I watched a few launch and recovery operations from the Island decks and flight deck over the yrs. Did get to watch the F14s with afterburners from the flight deck launch one time.   I did four COD arresting gear landings and many helo landings. landing onto the back of a moving destroyer was pretty cool. Sadly I never got to get shot off, those trips always ended in pulling into port or helo departure. Getting shot off is one thing I regret never getting to do esp when a few of my co-workers did get shot off.

[98valk]

I'm am so sick of people calling Trump a Nazi,Hitler,Facist,dictator and a tyrant. Did I miss anything?

I agree with you on this. Calling Mr Trump nazi or Hitler or dictator is historically incorrect.

Context: I had in my mind the Scottish thinkers from 18th century (Adam Smith, David Hume, etc) view on the relation of the people and the relation with their rulers, which is why I wrote "If you are ruled by a Tyrant, it is not only your right to rebel, but actually your patriotic duty to do so. This is how this country was founded.".

Those Scottish influenced the Founding fathers decision to break with England. I read this book in my recent travel and planning to write a review about it:
https://www.amazon.com/How-Scots-Invented-Modern-World/dp/0609809997/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1535906107&sr=8-1&keywords=scottish+enlightenment

Funny thing is that the formal definition fits the bill pretty well...

From the dictionary: "Tyrant - noun - a cruel and oppressive ruler."

so I guess your parents who forced you to follow the rules of their house were Tyrants?

[Gavin_Sons]

Well that explains everything rams

Everyone quit feeding the trolls, they are like stray cats, keep coming back because they get what they want.

[MAD6Gun]

I'm am so sick of people calling Trump a Nazi,Hitler,Facist,dictator and a tyrant. Did I miss anything?

I agree with you on this. Calling Mr Trump nazi or Hitler or dictator is historically incorrect.

Context: I had in my mind the Scottish thinkers from 18th century (Adam Smith, David Hume, etc) view on the relation of the people and the relation with their rulers, which is why I wrote "If you are ruled by a Tyrant, it is not only your right to rebel, but actually your patriotic duty to do so. This is how this country was founded.".

Those Scottish influenced the Founding fathers decision to break with England. I read this book in my recent travel and planning to write a review about it:
https://www.amazon.com/How-Scots-Invented-Modern-World/dp/0609809997/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1535906107&sr=8-1&keywords=scottish+enlightenment

Funny thing is that the formal definition fits the bill pretty well...

From the dictionary: "Tyrant - noun - a cruel and oppressive ruler."

 You don't have the first clue what "a cruel and oppressive ruler" is. That would be  someone lIke  Kim Jong Un. Executed his own uncle by feeding him to hungry dogs. Most of the citizens of his country don't even know what year it is.

Give me a freeking break. Tell me what rights have you or anybody else lost since Trump has been presindent? Come on tell me.

Face it. You and the rest of the liberals got your widdle feelings hurt because your girl lost. You just can't stop crying about it.  Waaaaaaaaaa Waaaaaaaaaa Trump is a big meany.  My two year old grandson whines less then you guys.

[Savago]

Give me a freeking break. Tell me what rights have you or anybody else lost since Trump has been presindent? Come on tell me.

*Cough*, cough:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/the_americas/us-is-denying-passports-to-americans-along-the-border-throwing-their-citizenship-into-question/2018/08/29/1d630e84-a0da-11e8-a3dd-2a1991f075d5_story.html?utm_term=.e895e04f7f4d

Many other cases, just turn off Fox & Friends and do your own research (I know, that is hard).

And by the way, I personally think HC should be expelled from the Democratic party after what she did to Bernie. Lots of credit for Trump's victory goes to HC being a terrible candidate + people feeling let down by corruption in the Democratic party.

To all the real classy gentlemen here, no need to go after my parents or personal attacks or other illogical ('Prove he is not guilty!' What? Is America turned commie Russia now?) arguments.

I won't be posting in this thread anymore.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Man, there sure is a lot of hate in a thread about a guys death. 

[Psychotic Bovine]

Give me a freeking break. Tell me what rights have you or anybody else lost since Trump has been presindent? Come on tell me.

*Cough*, cough:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/the_americas/us-is-denying-passports-to-americans-along-the-border-throwing-their-citizenship-into-question/2018/08/29/1d630e84-a0da-11e8-a3dd-2a1991f075d5_story.html?utm_term=.e895e04f7f4d

Many other cases, just turn off Fox & Friends and do your own research (I know, that is hard).

And by the way, I personally think HC should be expelled from the Democratic party after what she did to Bernie. Lots of credit for Trump's victory goes to HC being a terrible candidate + people feeling let down by corruption in the Democratic party.

To all the real classy gentlemen here, no need to go after my parents or personal attacks or other illogical ('Prove he is not guilty!' What? Is America turned commie Russia now?) arguments.

I won't be posting in this thread anymore.

I am sure Trump personally denied his passport.  You do know that, as President, he doesn't know everything that goes on in the country.  Just like Obama *cough cough* "not even a smidgen of corruption in IRS".  
So sorry you won't be posting, I am sure your insight will be sorely missed. *cough coucgh*

[Psychotic Bovine]

Man, there sure is a lot of hate in a thread about a guys death.  

The OP didn't make this thread about some guys death.  He made the post about the funeral being used as another opportunity to bash a sitting President.  The people who did so at the funeral show a sincere lack of class.  I thought his daughter was above that, but being on The View seems to have pumped venom into her brain.
And, yes, I am quite aware that Trump bashed McCain, but McCain also attacked Trump. (even before the election)

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/john-mccain-has-a-few-things-to-say-about-donald-trump

[98valk]

President Trump was the only living President at Billy Graham's funeral. Billy Graham was a true Hero.

[old2soon]

          Mad6Gun-Mark-you had to know what this thread wuz gonna bring.  And you had to know "who" wuz gonna chime in with the tired same old same old. I worked a flight deck and flew part time aircrew-I KNOW how quickly things can become MAJOR FUBAR. And-Yes-A 4s are non afterburning. Had em on the U S S Yorktown CVS 10. While McCain has my respect as an Officer and a Pilot-it do end there. He has passed and he is gone. Whenever I talked about our former potus it was always lower case. Whenever I talk about our Current President Trump POTUS is now upper case. RIDE SAFE.

[hubcapsc]

*Cough*, cough:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/the_americas/us-is-denying-passports-to-americans-along-the-border-throwing-their-citizenship-into-question/2018/08/29/1d630e84-a0da-11e8-a3dd-2a1991f075d5_story.html?utm_term=.e895e04f7f4d

If you read it, it sez:

Based on those suspicions, the State Department during the George W. Bush and Barack Obama administrations denied passports to people who were delivered by midwives in Texas’s Rio Grande Valley.

-Mike " ? ? ? "