$40 to replace air filter? I was tempted...

[Serk]

So I ordered a K&N Air Filter for my new-to-me Interstate from Amazon, and it had an option to buy "Expert Installation" for $40, saying someone would come to me and install it.

Having accessed the air filter many times on a Valkyrie, I'd happily pay $40 to have someone else do that, but I was guessing their expert would show up, take one look at what was ahead of them, and try to back out....

But I was very tempted just to see what would happen.

Anyway, just found it interesting that they had that as an option, anyone ever actually tried it, especially on something as esoteric as a 20 year old motorcycle?

[Ken aka Oil Burner]

I'd be too afraid that they'd F something up and/or scratch the holy hell out of the tank.

That, and I don't like strangers at my home and garage. I guess I should be a hermit, but it's not in the cards.

[Chrisj CMA]

So I ordered a K&N Air Filter for my new-to-me Interstate from Amazon, and it had an option to buy "Expert Installation" for $40, saying someone would come to me and install it.

Having accessed the air filter many times on a Valkyrie, I'd happily pay $40 to have someone else do that, but I was guessing their expert would show up, take one look at what was ahead of them, and try to back out....

But I was very tempted just to see what would happen.

Anyway, just found it interesting that they had that as an option, anyone ever actually tried it, especially on something as esoteric as a 20 year old motorcycle?

If it really was an expert, that would be quite a deal. If a total stranger within driving distance from me asked me to do an air filter change for $40 I wouldn't do it for $40

[98valk]

k&n filter lets in a ton of dirt. suggest using your favorite adult search engine for Spicer air filter test.  This is certified lab test of various air filters
  Any Oem air filter will last 40-60k miles unless one rides in dirt road construction sites all of the time. 12k mile change is myth like the 3k mile oil change. they put that for worst case to protect the warranty on the product. YM may vary.

[Dave Ritsema]

I have seen this on many Jeep parts on Amazon as well. A friend of mine with a repair shop signed up for this Amazon service as well and he said after a month he let it go. Amazon had some algorithm to set the for the install and he said there was no way he could make money on their prices, especially when he had to go to the clients house.

[Chrisj CMA]

k&n filter lets in a ton of dirt. suggest using your favorite adult search engine for Spicer air filter test.  This is certified lab test of various air filters
  Any Oem air filter will last 40-60k miles unless one rides in dirt road construction sites all of the time. 12k mile change is myth like the 3k mile oil change. they put that for worst case to protect the warranty on the product. YM may vary.

I have had a K&N for 10 years now. The bike has over 160 thousand miles and still runs perfect no oil use. Hard to see a problem there

[Serk]

Yep.... IF I believed they woulda sent a competent motorcycle mechanic to my house to do the job, that would have been $40 WELL spent....

But I did it myself, woulda HAPPILY spent $40 to not do that, HATE HATE HATE getting all the hoses and such hooked back up, but it's done. Hopefully I got 'em all right, off to do a test ride...

I am terribly curious now as to who would have shown up if I'd paid the $40.....

[Valker]

k&n filter lets in a ton of dirt. suggest using your favorite adult search engine for Spicer air filter test.  This is certified lab test of various air filters
  Any Oem air filter will last 40-60k miles unless one rides in dirt road construction sites all of the time. 12k mile change is myth like the 3k mile oil change. they put that for worst case to protect the warranty on the product. YM may vary.

I have had a K&N for 10 years now. The bike has over 160 thousand miles and still runs perfect no oil use. Hard to see a problem there

Same here with 18 years and 174,000 miles. Love mine.

[98valk]

Debris, such as dirt or dust, can cause significant damage to a bearing surface. If it’s in the lubrication system, dirt will usually leave circumferential scratches and will often remain lodged in the bearing’s surface.

https://www.knowyourparts.com/technical-resources/engine/types-of-engine-bearing-damage/


kn filter was designed as a race track filter, until a marketing genius got involved, by finding a car which had an undersized air cleaner and filter. put the filter in and showed a HP gain at the very top end. in a car with a correctly sized air cleaner and filter there was almost no HP difference. and that is how they got into selling for street usage.

[cookiedough]

K&N is fine on our cycles just make sure you install the foam insert on top is all.  Most all of us do not drive on dirt roads so not much dirt will bypass the K&N vs. a normal Honda OEM air filter.  Either is perfectly fine to us and will last 50K or more or in the case of the K&N the life of the cycle since can wash it out and re-oil.

Now,  I have a K&N air filter on my ATV and if it was not on there to begin with,  I probably would not have it on the ATV even with the sleeve cover that goes around the air filter itself.  Reason:  dirt and dust is VERY common on the ATV trails and am sure more dirt gets thru that air filter into the engine over the LONG haul,  might (and I say might) cause issues.  I do not put enough miles on my ATV''s though to worry about it much at all.

When I do take off my K&N air filter on my ATV trying to do it every 4-5 outings (or once per year) to wash out and re-oil,  there is a TON of dirt that gets washed down the sink when running water thru it.  Then again,  if washing and re-oiling regularly not letting it get too far,  does save lots of money vs. having to throw away every few years the stock OEM paper air filter for my ATV. 

[Kokomo Kevin]

Had my K&N on for 14 years and 70,000 miles. Usually service it once a year. Happy so far with it.

[Gavin_Sons]

Debris, such as dirt or dust, can cause significant damage to a bearing surface. If it’s in the lubrication system, dirt will usually leave circumferential scratches and will often remain lodged in the bearing’s surface.

https://www.knowyourparts.com/technical-resources/engine/types-of-engine-bearing-damage/


kn filter was designed as a race track filter, until a marketing genius got involved, by finding a car which had an undersized air cleaner and filter. put the filter in and showed a HP gain at the very top end. in a car with a correctly sized air cleaner and filter there was almost no HP difference. and that is how they got into selling for street usage.

You knocking K&N is going nowhere. Too many people with zero problems for years and hundreds of thousands of miles.

[Serk]

...did I mention I run non-motorcycle specific tires on the rear of both my Valks, use Mobil 1 15w50 car oil in both of them, prefer Honda OEM oil filters, and voluntarily wear a full face helmet the vast majority of the time as well? 

Oh, and 60's and 70's American made "Muscle Cars" all look alike, make a lot of noise but don't go very fast, especially if there's any cornering involved... Kinda the HD of cars...

And Android is superior to IOS in every conceivable way.



But seriously, yeah, somehow I'd missed that K&N filters were at all controversial in the almost 20 years I've been running one on my first Valk. Appreciate the input on them, but I'm happy with mine.

Was more interested in the Amazon add on service to have someone come out and service my Valk for not a lotta money, was wondering if anyone had been brave enough to actually try it and see if you get a real motorcycle mechanic or Skippy the High School Kid with a screwdriver thinking he's gonna pop out an easily accessible part and be done in 5 minutes...

[Gavin_Sons]

a buddy in high school had a car that wouldn't run just all the sudden one day. We were working on it after school one day and i pulled the air filter and it started right up. He ran it without a filter for 5 years. Put one in right before he traded it in for a new truck. Any kind of filter is better than no filter.

[hubcapsc]

k&n filter lets in a ton of dirt. suggest using your favorite adult search engine for Spicer air filter test.  This is certified lab test of various air filters
  Any Oem air filter will last 40-60k miles unless one rides in dirt road construction sites all of the time. 12k mile change is myth like the 3k mile oil change. they put that for worst case to protect the warranty on the product. YM may vary.

I have had a K&N for 10 years now. The bike has over 160 thousand miles and still runs perfect no oil use. Hard to see a problem there

Same here with 18 years and 174,000 miles. Love mine.

My 2002 Tacoma has an aftermarket "cold loud air intake" system
on it. Lot's of people like them, so lots of people have done it. I've
been lurking on eBay to find someone selling their OEM air intake,
I got one last week. While learning about it and how to install it and
all its hoses, I also went hunting a new air filter. I took the old one
so I'd be sure the new one was right. I went to three auto parts
stores, none of their chinzy paper filters looked to be anywhere
near the quality of the old filter that was in my new-to-me airbox...
I figured it was an OEM air filter. The Advance dude recognized
the filter as a K&N. I ended up just getting the $13 K&N filter
clean-and-oil kit, I'll reuse the old filter...

-Mike "never used K&N before..."

[Chrisj CMA]

Debris, such as dirt or dust, can cause significant damage to a bearing surface. If it’s in the lubrication system, dirt will usually leave circumferential scratches and will often remain lodged in the bearing’s surface.

https://www.knowyourparts.com/technical-resources/engine/types-of-engine-bearing-damage/


kn filter was designed as a race track filter, until a marketing genius got involved, by finding a car which had an undersized air cleaner and filter. put the filter in and showed a HP gain at the very top end. in a car with a correctly sized air cleaner and filter there was almost no HP difference. and that is how they got into selling for street usage.

You knocking K&N is going nowhere. Too many people with zero problems for years and hundreds of thousands of miles.

I agree with the statement that the K&N air filter was designed for the race track.  In that environment the road is clean and controlled and the engine is rebuilt or replaced every few or sometimes EVERY race.  However, that is for a brand new or just serviced filter.  The cool thing about the K&N is that after a few thousand miles they actually work better because fine particles that do get trapped make the filtering material more effective.  So, its actually better to let that K&N go instead of cleaning it all the time. 

[F6Dave]

I've used K&N air filters in the past.  I also used another oiled, 'serviceable' filter that came with a bike.  I considered trying one again on my F6B because I believed they lasted longer, and the filter on a Wing takes hours to change.

Then I read the test report 98valk referred to.  I knew the K&N let more dirt in, but was still surprised at how much more.  It was something like 40x as much.  But what really surprised me is that the K&N clogged up significantly faster.  I suspect that might be because they have fewer pleats, and therefore less surface area.  I looked at photos of GL1800 filters (similar to Valk filters) and the OEM has about 50% more pleats than K&N.  So the longer change interval is apparently a myth.

These GL engines last nearly forever, even with minimal maintenance, so I doubt a K&N will do any noticeable damage.  But there's really no compelling reason to use one.

[Ken aka Oil Burner]

I don't want to get into an argument with anyone, but here's my take. BTW, I'm an ASE certified master automotive technician with about 25 years in. Millions of people have gone millions of miles with a K+N air filter with no problems. Of those, I'd say a vast majority are not subject to lots of airborne dirt and dust regularly, and most are normally aspirated.

When the clearances are tighter, and the rotating item is spinning much faster than the RPM of the engine in question, things take a darker turn. Replace a turbocharger on your Powerstroke that's not covered due to "dusting" and you'll understand why some people have decided to no longer buy into the marketing speak.

[98valk]

I don't want to get into an argument with anyone, but here's my take. BTW, I'm an ASE certified master automotive technician with about 25 years in. Millions of people have gone millions of miles with a K+N air filter with no problems. Of those, I'd say a vast majority are not subject to lots of airborne dirt and dust regularly, and most are normally aspirated.

When the clearances are tighter, and the rotating item is spinning much faster than the RPM of the engine in question, things take a darker turn. Replace a turbocharger on your Powerstroke that's not covered due to "dusting" and you'll understand why some people have decided to no longer buy into the marketing speak.

sorry people do have problems, like less mpg and power, but many, many get a new vehicle every few yrs so never see the engine getting worst from new or just don't notice or care. how many get rid of the vehicle because it doesn't run like new? many are that way. scientific testing of the oil and the air filters do not lie and it always trumps emotional engineering.

[98valk]

 
[/quote]

  The cool thing about the K&N is that after a few thousand miles they actually work better because fine particles that do get trapped make the filtering material more effective. 
[/quote]

not cool at all, since during that time it is letting in damaging dirt into the engine. testing (SAE and now the new letters ISO?) has shown over the yrs that the k-n doesn't load up enough to provide cleaner air is when it is 80% at capacity. that is a lot of miles of ingesting dirt.

all I can suggest is read UOA reports and the spicer filter test. The OEM filter and other filters last much, much longer than 12k miles which is a myth like the 3k oil change. I've tested used oem filter with 30k miles on it and it flowed the same as a brand new one.
enjoy.

[cookiedough]

I agree on OEM air filters lasting longer than the mfgs. recommended change of them at 15K on my vehicles.  I go 40K or so on OEM vehicle air filter and still think it could go longer, but change it before 50K miles just because, which is for  us about 3 years of driving.   Same for the cheapo cabin air filters behind the glove box on vehicles.  I think recommends changing every 10K miles but I go 20K miles regularly. 

I still think K&N air filters are fine, but would not recommend them on ATVs if doing a lot of dusty riding conditions which is most of the case. 

[franco6]

There is too much sand and dirt flying around these parts  to use the K&N, though I did in the past on the Alfas . Being more informed now they don t belong on the bikes so have a couple lurking around in the garage. the $20 and some for a honda filter is small price for peace of mind.

[Willow]

... the $20 and some for a honda filter is small price for peace of mind.

Do what you need to do for the peace of your mind.  Experience simply doesn't support the testing quoted.  There are too many of us riding multiple hundred thousand miles Valkyries with K&N for my mind not to be at peace.

[Jess from VA]

My take on the K & N is simple.

I don't like taking my tank, hoses and everything apart every year to do the filter.

After a year or more, I like OE filters better than dried-out-oil K & N filters.

Otherwise, I've run them both and they are fine.

So if you're lazy like me, use OE filters.

The K & N application calls for the skinny foam prefilter for use on the Valk.  I did.  It does not hinder air intake, but it grabs dirt sooner than the filter.  What's the downside?

[Bigwolf]

OSS,
It would be interesting to find out just what that $40 labor would bring to your door.  But I would not let any such person do anything to my bike.

Right after I bought my Valkyrie, (800 miles actually), She hit the 20K servicemark.  I almost always do all of my own mechanic work on everything I own, but because the bike was completely new to me,.........and I was in the process of buying a house, I decided to take it to a dealer.  This 20K mile service “work” was supposed to be a 1 day thing but ended up taking 4 days to complete.  The worst part was that my previously screaming banshee of a dragon barely got out of the shop before it was struggling to run.  It now ran much hotter than before causing my nice Cobras to turn blue way back by my feet.  Nobody but me has touched my bike with a wrench since!  And as long as I own it they will not!  Well, there are a couple of exceptions within the VRCC, but I know them and know their work.

Bigwolf

[Chrisj CMA]

All this talk about the oiled K&N Filter made me curious.  It has been awhile and it was time for my undercover cleaning.  I like to clean/wax the stuff under the tank, side covers and other covers every once in a while.  Nothing like clean stuff when you have to work on it.

So the K&N was a bit dry but it had caught lots of dirt and other things.  I have a spare so I don't have to wait for it to dry after washing it.  Oiled the new one and cleaned inside and outside of the air box and lid.  Good to go for another few thousand miles. I would say the OEM filters I have removed with similar miles looked dirtier only because of the paper color, in reality I don't remember so much dirt in the upper section of the airbox.  So there's no way the K&N lets in 40 times more dirt,  I just don't buy that no matter where one can read it.

[Bighead]

Bottom line here is it is your bike run whatever oil&filter, air filter and grade of fuel you like. I aint mad at ya

[Chrisj CMA]

Bottom line here is it is your bike run whatever oil&filter, air filter and grade of fuel you like. I aint mad at ya

LMAO. And when I die the next owner can run whatever he/she wants. 

[Chrisj CMA]

And she runs so much better with all her private areas all clean and tight..  lol

[F6Dave]

All this talk about the oiled K&N Filter made me curious.  It has been awhile and it was time for my undercover cleaning.  I like to clean/wax the stuff under the tank, side covers and other covers every once in a while.  Nothing like clean stuff when you have to work on it.

So the K&N was a bit dry but it had caught lots of dirt and other things.  I have a spare so I don't have to wait for it to dry after washing it.  Oiled the new one and cleaned inside and outside of the air box and lid.  Good to go for another few thousand miles. I would say the OEM filters I have removed with similar miles looked dirtier only because of the paper color, in reality I don't remember so much dirt in the upper section of the airbox.  So there's no way the K&N lets in 40 times more dirt,  I just don't buy that no matter where one can read it.

Like I said earlier, our engines last a very long time with even minimal maintenance, so using a more porous filter like K&N is unlikely to cause any noticeable damage.  About the only evidence might be a UOA with elevated silica levels.  Over time you might see an increase in some of the metals.

But I see no compelling reason to use a K&N as the test results 98valk referred to are pretty conclusive.  2 oiled filters (K&N and Uni) were compared with 7 traditional paper/syntyetic filters, like Purolator, Wix, and AC/Delco.  They ran an ISO 5011 test on a machine that flowed test dust (a specific mix of particle sizes) at a constant rate until the filter clogged.  Clogging was defined as restriction causing a pressure drop of 10 IN-H2O. The best filter ran 60 min and let .4 grams of dust through.  The worst (K&N) only ran for 24 minutes and let 7 grams through.  So the best filter passed .0067 grams of dust per minute, compared to .29 grams for the K&N.  That's a ratio of over 43:1!  Since a K&N filter lets lots more dirt into your engine, and also clogs up much faster, it's hard to understand why they have such a loyal following.

If anyone is interested in reading all the data, the test is posted in several internet locations.  I found it on the Nissan Infiniti Car Owners (NICOCLUB) site.  K&N fanatics should be forewarned -- they might not like the results!

[98valk]

All this talk about the oiled K&N Filter made me curious.  It has been awhile and it was time for my undercover cleaning.  I like to clean/wax the stuff under the tank, side covers and other covers every once in a while.  Nothing like clean stuff when you have to work on it.

So the K&N was a bit dry but it had caught lots of dirt and other things.  I have a spare so I don't have to wait for it to dry after washing it.  Oiled the new one and cleaned inside and outside of the air box and lid.  Good to go for another few thousand miles. I would say the OEM filters I have removed with similar miles looked dirtier only because of the paper color, in reality I don't remember so much dirt in the upper section of the airbox.  So there's no way the K&N lets in 40 times more dirt,  I just don't buy that no matter where one can read it.

Like I said earlier, our engines last a very long time with even minimal maintenance, so using a more porous filter like K&N is unlikely to cause any noticeable damage.  About the only evidence might be a UOA with elevated silica levels.  Over time you might see an increase in some of the metals.

But I see no compelling reason to use a K&N as the test results 98valk referred to are pretty conclusive.  2 oiled filters (K&N and Uni) were compared with 7 traditional paper/syntyetic filters, like Purolator, Wix, and AC/Delco.  They ran an ISO 5011 test on a machine that flowed test dust (a specific mix of particle sizes) at a constant rate until the filter clogged.  Clogging was defined as restriction causing a pressure drop of 10 IN-H2O. The best filter ran 60 min and let .4 grams of dust through.  The worst (K&N) only ran for 24 minutes and let 7 grams through.  So the best filter passed .0067 grams of dust per minute, compared to .29 grams for the K&N.  That's a ratio of over 43:1!  Since a K&N filter lets lots more dirt into your engine, and also clogs up much faster, it's hard to understand why they have such a loyal following.

If anyone is interested in reading all the data, the test is posted in several internet locations.  I found it on the Nissan Infiniti Car Owners (NICOCLUB) site.  K&N fanatics should be forewarned -- they might not like the results!

good reads here. and spicer test

http://www.bmwmotorcycletech.info/K-and-N-filters.htm

http://www.trailerlife.com/tech/diy/the-truth-about-engine-air-filtration/

http://www.billswebspace.com/AirFilterTest.htm

[Black Pearl's Captain]

 scientific testing of the oil and the air filters do not lie and it always trumps emotional engineering.

  The cool thing about the K&N is that after a few thousand miles they actually work better because fine particles that do get trapped make the filtering material more effective.  

The OEM filter and other filters last much, much longer than 12k miles which is a myth like the 3k oil change. I've tested used oem filter with 30k miles on it and it flowed the same as a brand new one.
enjoy.

So which bit of sage advice should we follow? Your statement to follow scientific data or your second advice, 12k miles is a myth (which means use them as you please??)?

My ST1300 is at 257,000 miles and only two air filters have ever been in the bike. One said Honda on it and the other you'll have to scientifically guess the name.

[98valk]

 scientific testing of the oil and the air filters do not lie and it always trumps emotional engineering.

  The cool thing about the K&N is that after a few thousand miles they actually work better because fine particles that do get trapped make the filtering material more effective.  

The OEM filter and other filters last much, much longer than 12k miles which is a myth like the 3k oil change. I've tested used oem filter with 30k miles on it and it flowed the same as a brand new one.
enjoy.

So which bit of sage advice should we follow? Your statement to follow scientific data or your second advice, 12k miles is a myth (which means use them as you please??)?

My ST1300 is at 257,000 miles and only two air filters have ever been in the bike. One said Honda on it and the other you'll have to scientifically guess the name.

http://www.trailerlife.com/tech/diy/the-truth-about-engine-air-filtration/