GM and Ford discontinuing car lineup

[NW roller]

You still got to use fossil fuels to charge the electric car up. I don't get how that saves the environment.  when gas burns its gone. What do you do with the dead batteries ? They are way more harmful to the environment then gas engines. Just my thoughts  I don't buy into to the whole climate change theory. Every time they  set a date for doom and gloom they move it back 10 years. its been being predicted since the 70's. As for Chevy they should have been gone the way of AMC, Willis, and Studebaker.  My tax dollars should not have been used to bail them out . Companies close everyday.  All it did was delay the loss of the jobs 6 years later.

[¿spoom]

You still got to use fossil fuels to charge the electric car up. I don't get how that saves the environment.  when gas burns its gone. What do you do with the dead batteries ? They are way more harmful to the environment then gas engines. Just my thoughts  I don't buy into to the whole climate change theory. Every time they  set a date for doom and gloom they move it back 10 years. its been being predicted since the 70's. As for Chevy they should have been gone the way of AMC, Willis, and Studebaker.  My tax dollars should not have been used to bail them out . Companies close everyday.  All it did was delay the loss of the jobs 6 years later.

Any bailout of an auto company should be tied to them closing/no new contracts with all foreign plants IMHO. No sense supporting Mexican auto workers and Chinese suppliers. More and more, even the US assembly plants are just stamping a body & suspension, then opening boxes of  foreign parts and complete subassemblies to hang on 'em. I guess the "good" news is if you buy a complete Chinese LED/HID headlamp assembly off Amazon or eBay it may still be an OEM part 

[crusher]

I know I'll take a lota heat for this but it is irresponsible for the big three promoting insane gigantic 4X4's that drink gas. We constantly see one person driving a big truck or SUV probably getting 12 to 14 mpg. It's sad they can't or won't compete with foreign manufacturers of small high quality cars, trucks and SUV's.

[¿spoom]

I know I'll take a lota heat for this but it is irresponsible for the big three promoting insane gigantic 4X4's that drink gas. We constantly see one person driving a big truck or SUV probably getting 12 to 14 mpg. It's sad they can't or won't compete with foreign manufacturers of small high quality cars, trucks and SUV's.

I don't quite follow your logic. Unless one believes that big trucks & SUVs are only sold to people by tricking them with advertising, the automakers are making and selling what the people want to buy and drive.
Likewise the "... with foreign manufacturers of small high quality cars, trucks and SUV's" makes no sense to me, as many of those "foreign" vehicles are made right here, and are also quite large. Never heard anyone who wanted a pickup truck buying a Prius instead because of some promotion. I frequently drive a 1Ton E350 van w/5.4L V8. When there's two 500+lb drums of fiberglass strapped down in the back, I'M one person driving a big truck or SUV probably getting 12 to 14 mpg. Same thing when I have a bike in the back, or 2x a year, my golf cart. It's my choice, and I make no apologies for buying what I want to drive. I even have a big 6 cylinder bike that I usually ride alone. No reason why a nice 250cc scooter wouldn't get me there, using far less gas.  

[G-Man]

I know I'll take a lota heat for this but it is irresponsible for the big three promoting insane gigantic 4X4's that drink gas. We constantly see one person driving a big truck or SUV probably getting 12 to 14 mpg. It's sad they can't or won't compete with foreign manufacturers of small high quality cars, trucks and SUV's.

Willow hit the nail on the head when he said it's all about sales.

Plain and simple.  If the cars on the chopping block had higher sales figures, they would continue making them.

The larger cars, Chevy Impala, Ford Taurus, etc. were always sold for fleets.  This was the majority of their sales of these cars.  Taxi companies, cops, etc. bought those big cars up by the millions every year.  No more.  They are all now buying midsize SUVs.  I can't recall seeing a policecar in my town in quite some time.  The only larger car I see is the Dodge Challenger which are driven by the state troopers because they have the 6.4L engines

As for the smaller U.S. made cars,....... they are UGLY.  And electric cars still need incentives from gov't to make them affordable to the general population and I think this has or is in process of stopping.

However, if you have money, Tesla is doing right.  Saw a new shopping center in Delray Beach, FL at the "end" of Atlantic Ave (near the turnpike) that had 15 - 20 Tesla charging stations in the parking lot.  Actually looked kinda cool seeing the white stations with red lettering lined up in a row like that.  When it all settles down and electric becomes a better and more affordable way of doing it, it's gonna be quite cool.  We're just not there yet and gov't picking winners, regulations, taxes, etc. just piss people off and it slows down progress.  Believe you me, if the market is there, they will build and sell it. 

[Dave Ritsema]

Electric vehicles are starting to look interesting to me. In our test laboratory we are beginning to perform testing on several electric drivetrain options that are quite interesting.  Self contained drives for each vehicle corner with integrated motors and gearboxes that radically change the way vehicles can be designed. No driveshafts, radiators, etc. give designers much greater freedoms.

The one I find of particular interest is the Bollinger Motors SUV / Pick up concept. They are very close to being in production and I did put my name on the pre-order list. Over 600 HP, all aluminum body, 15 inches of ground clearance and a 200 mile range makes it increasingly interesting to me.



https://www.bollingermotors.com/

[¿spoom]

That's too much "H2 meets Lego Land" for me. Electric vehicles ARE the way to go, but you don't need to develop and test them by selling them to the general public when you are really waiting for new battery tech to develop. Tesla is still a joke, as it is simply premature as far as paying for itself. GM buying them would be smarter than Packard and Studebaker merging, but not much. Considering GM still can't master the "advanced" electronics of heated seats and keyless door locks, among other things, I wouldn't risk buying any electric car with a GM nameplate.

[..]

Mall of Georgia has a row of Tesla charging stations. Do you plug your car in and then walk miles to the store you want to shop in?

Or does a Tesla minion appear in a golf cart to take you?

Can any EV  plug in to a Tesla station?

Is there a standard for EV plug ins?

What's to stop assholes from unplugging you?

Tesla charging location map doesn't work.
https://www.teslarati.com/map/?place=Los%20Angeles,%20CA,%20USA

During my 40 minutes in hell not one Tesla was charging. Nor any other EV.

[Beardo]

Electric vehicles are starting to look interesting to me. In our test laboratory we are beginning to perform testing on several electric drivetrain options that are quite interesting.  Self contained drives for each vehicle corner with integrated motors and gearboxes that radically change the way vehicles can be designed. No driveshafts, radiators, etc. give designers much greater freedoms.

The one I find of particular interest is the Bollinger Motors SUV / Pick up concept. They are very close to being in production and I did put my name on the pre-order list. Over 600 HP, all aluminum body, 15 inches of ground clearance and a 200 mile range makes it increasingly interesting to me.



https://www.bollingermotors.com/

Now THAT’s a cool concept. Thanks for posting that.

Not full of useless tech and gadgets, very utilitarian.  Should be more affordable than all the other computers on wheels out there.

Still wouldn’t last for a day of hunting or ice fishing...but a cool concept nonetheless.

[RudyF6]

The gadgets on the new cars are supposed to keep the idiots drivers from killing themselves and others.  Good luck with that.

As they approach idiot-proof, I'm sure Darwin will provide a steady supply of bigger idiots! 

[crusher]

Toyota and Nissan do make full sized trucks, they want a slice of the pie, that doesn't make it responsible. If you work in heavy industry, building trades, farming etc. a large truck is necessary. Honda's Ridgeline is a sensible alternative. Hauling a golf cart twice a year is not. If you're honest you will admit the motor companies convinced you that you can't live without a truck. It's all about profit and LDS.

[Dave Ritsema]

Toyota and Nissan do make full sized trucks, they want a slice of the pie, that doesn't make it responsible. If you work in heavy industry, building trades, farming etc. a large truck is necessary. Honda's Ridgeline is a sensible alternative. Hauling a golf cart twice a year is not. If you're honest you will admit the motor companies convinced you that you can't live without a truck. It's all about profit and LDS.

Nope, no one has ever convinced me what to ride or drive, I make my own money and make my own choices. I have no interest in someone else's idea of what is "sensible" for me to drive. Feel free to enjoy your Prius and I will enjoy my Raptor that likely will never run in the desert at Baja and is far from sensible. 

[crusher]

Everyone will agree the government has no business trying to run our lives but remarks like this are exactly why they do. A good majority of the general public doesn't have sense enough to come in from the rain. By the way the Raptor is the most disgusting, insane pos on the road. 

[Dave Ritsema]

Everyone will agree the government has no business trying to run our lives but remarks like this are exactly why they do. A good majority of the general public doesn't have sense enough to come in from the rain. By the way the Raptor is the most disgusting, insane pos on the road.  

Ahhh...I see now. I am not smart enough to make wise choices but YOU know exactly what we should all be driving. I am equally certain you know what's best for me in terms of possession of firearms,  (Why would any sensible person need an AR-15?) or what the largest size of soda I should consume. (Anything over 16 ounces is clearly the choice of someone that doesn't have enough sense to come out of the rain)

Enjoy your Prius and I will enjoy my unsensible life choices.

[Wizzard]

Everyone will agree the government has no business trying to run our lives but remarks like this are exactly why they do. A good majority of the general public doesn't have sense enough to come in from the rain. By the way the Raptor is the most disgusting, insane pos on the road. 

Everyone has an opinion and we all know what opinions are like.

[Gavin_Sons]

Everyone will agree the government has no business trying to run our lives but remarks like this are exactly why they do. A good majority of the general public doesn't have sense enough to come in from the rain. By the way the Raptor is the most disgusting, insane pos on the road. 

  I like the Raptors, if I was ever to own a Ford that would be the only one. I drive a full size Tundra. Do I need it, probably not, but as Dave stated, I make my own money and I'll drive what I want. If I happen to choose a gas guzzler that gets 6mpg that is my choice and no one else's.  I work in battery manufacturing and the way batteries are produced causes much more damage than gas or diesel does. What happens at the end of the battery life? How many people will recycle them? Not enough in my opinion. Battery powered vehicles have several years to go before they meet my expectations or even plausible for me to own. I like the concept but still needs more scientific developments to make run time longer.

[¿spoom]

Toyota and Nissan do make full sized trucks, they want a slice of the pie, that doesn't make it responsible. If you work in heavy industry, building trades, farming etc. a large truck is necessary. Honda's Ridgeline is a sensible alternative. Hauling a golf cart twice a year is not. If you're honest you will admit the motor companies convinced you that you can't live without a truck. It's all about profit and LDS.

If you ride a Valkyrie, take your own advice and get rid of it. Then you won't have to come here and talk stupid about what I need in my life and who has brainwashed me.

[Rams]

Everyone will agree the government has no business trying to run our lives but remarks like this are exactly why they do. A good majority of the general public doesn't have sense enough to come in from the rain. By the way the Raptor is the most disgusting, insane pos on the road.  

Wow, I'm not even a Ford fan nor Ford Raptor fan......
Probably the best invite to a internet fight I've seen in a while.

I honestly don't gives rat's ass what someone drives.    I figure it meets their needs and if not they'll hire me to transport it or whatever it is they can't handle.     Yeah, I'm a Cummins Man.  

Rams

[..]

Toyota and Nissan do make full sized trucks, they want a slice of the pie, that doesn't make it responsible. If you work in heavy industry, building trades, farming etc. a large truck is necessary. Honda's Ridgeline is a sensible alternative. Hauling a golf cart twice a year is not. If you're honest you will admit the motor companies convinced you that you can't live without a truck. It's all about profit and LDS.

If you ride a Valkyrie, take your own advice and get rid of it. Then you won't have to come here and talk stupid about what I need in my life and who has brainwashed me.

He's just spouting the usual hypocritical crap that is old and tired from over use.

Rides a bike,  uses a wide variety of electrical devices, uses heat, uses A/C has a fridge, lives in more than one small room. it goes on and on and is really quite sad when looked at from the outside.

[Dave Ritsema]

Everyone will agree the government has no business trying to run our lives but remarks like this are exactly why they do. A good majority of the general public doesn't have sense enough to come in from the rain. By the way the Raptor is the most disgusting, insane pos on the road.  

Wow, I'm not even a Ford fan nor Ford Raptor fan......
Probably the best invite to a internet fight I've seen in a while.

I honestly don't gives rat's ass what someone drives.    I figure it meets their needs and if not they'll hire me to transport it or whatever it is they can't handle.     Yeah, I'm a Cummins Man.  

Rams

Could never knock a Cummins fan, they have more than proved themselves over the years. 

[cookiedough]

sorry guys if this post has become a pissing match on what everyone thinks is the best.  Some drive Ford, others Toyota, others Dodge, etc.  Drive what you like and fits your needs best.  I cannot convince anyone to switch brands is all a matter of personal opinions/preferences.  I drove strictly chevy's up thru 2007 and now a Toyota/Hyundai owner, and of course our beloved HONDA 6 cylinders.  I would consider even a Subaru or honda/toyota car in the future.   

Heck,  see if I care if anyone thinks I am weird and support Taiwan driving a Kymco 249cc scooter which IMO is just as good (or pretty close) to a similar honda reflex scooter.   Drive what you like and makes you happy and do not care if anyone laughs at a 275lb. shorter fat middle aged man driving a 350lb. scoot!     I literally have seen vehicles besides me on my scoot sort of smirking at me until I twist the throttle and blow them away doing over 70 mph or passing them on a 2 lane road.  Wife said though if I EVER get a speeding ticket on my scoot,  I will have to sell it.  Only excuse I could make telling the police if pulled over is that the main mph gauge is in kilometers and I cannot see the smaller print mph very well at that speed.   

[f6john]

I won’t get into the discussion over whether or not the car companies should have been bailed out or whether they should have refused the help. It is not lost on me how important all the car companies have been over the years to the overall economy and to the lives of the people who work for them. Their designers and engineers has made tremendous strides in most every area of personal transportation. While a lot of the add ons that seem to bother many it’s one way they improve their bottom line to finance the next major development.

If basic transportation is all you want get out there and find yourself an old beatle or pickup for instance and start wrenching and you won’t have to bothered with all this new dangled nonsense! I recently had to sell my mid eighties pickup due to space constraints but I still have my Chevelle. The Chevelle does have power steering but manual drum brakes, talk about scary.

On the electrical front, I do have a hybrid Camry. I don’t think it will pay for the extra cost through fuel savings especially given current gas prices. But from a performance standpoint I am very pleased. The battery backup allows mid 30’s mpg as an average which means 40+ mpg around town and stop and go driving. The big plus is when you need the extra power, the 80 hp kicks in along with the 2.5 liter 4 cylinder to move you out smartly.

I’m constantly rooting for the big three, even though most of what they are making that appeals to me is out of my price range and I don’t cull any of them. A friend of mine has a crew cab Dodge Ram 5.7 two wheel drive truck with an eight speed auto transmission. He recently got 20+ mpg on a road trip. It looks good drives good and is comfortable, all pretty impressive for any vehicle of that size and weight.

[Dave Ritsema]

I won’t get into the discussion over whether or not the car companies should have been bailed out or whether they should have refused the help. It is not lost on me how important all the car companies have been over the years to the overall economy and to the lives of the people who work for them. Their designers and engineers has made tremendous strides in most every area of personal transportation. While a lot of the add ons that seem to bother many it’s one way they improve their bottom line to finance the next major development.

If basic transportation is all you want get out there and find yourself an old beatle or pickup for instance and start wrenching and you won’t have to bothered with all this new dangled nonsense! I recently had to sell my mid eighties pickup due to space constraints but I still have my Chevelle. The Chevelle does have power steering but manual drum brakes, talk about scary.

On the electrical front, I do have a hybrid Camry. I don’t think it will pay for the extra cost through fuel savings especially given current gas prices. But from a performance standpoint I am very pleased. The battery backup allows mid 30’s mpg as an average which means 40+ mpg around town and stop and go driving. The big plus is when you need the extra power, the 80 hp kicks in along with the 2.5 liter 4 cylinder to move you out smartly.

I’m constantly rooting for the big three, even though most of what they are making that appeals to me is out of my price range and I don’t cull any of them. A friend of mine has a crew cab Dodge Ram 5.7 two wheel drive truck with an eight speed auto transmission. He recently got 20+ mpg on a road trip. It looks good drives good and is comfortable, all pretty impressive for any vehicle of that size and weight.

As someone whose family has been part of the automotive industry for several generations I am sure I am a bit biased regarding the importance of the industry on our economy. It's not just the union assembly line workers, the engineers or the executives. It is also (and perhaps to an even greater extent) the sub suppliers, stamping plants, electrical component manufactures, the skilled trades working at the plants and sub suppliers, trucking industry and even local economies like restaurants, hotels, etc. If one of these companies fail, the ripple effect is enormous. Regardless of my personal preferences I hope for continued success of all the car companies.

Regarding electric vehicles I have been very skeptical of them until the last year or so. As has been stated above the battery technology needs to evolve further but it has been improving significantly over the last 3 years or so and at some point in the not so distant future I think they will become a significant player in the marketplace.

[Gryphon Rider]

If basic transportation is all you want get out there and find yourself an old beatle...

They might be a little too old to give even a small kid a piggy-back ride.



Maybe Ringo could still do it.  

Like most of us, I'll drive whatever makes sense for me to own at the time.  I had always been a GM fan, but now I own two old Dodges, which do what I need them to.  In terms of being environmentally responsible, I think I beat any new car buyer by keeping a couple of vehicles out of the landfill (their non-metal bits anyway), and by not requiring all the energy used to build a new car.  They might not be ego-inflators, or thrill-inspirers, but the Valkyrie serves that function well enough.

[¿spoom]

Ringo needs to save his energy for his lovely wife 

[Gryphon Rider]

George has been dead for years, probably not able to carry anything.  

D'oh!  I'm not a Beatles fan, so don't pay a lot of attention so such things.  My attempt to be clever backfired on me.  Edited my post.

[Dave Ritsema]

George has been dead for years, probably not able to carry anything.  

D'oh!  I'm not a Beatles fan, so don't pay a lot of attention so such things.  My attempt to be clever backfired on me.  Edited my post.

It was still pretty clever. 

[Wizzard]

Keith Richards of the Stones is dead too, he just doesn't know it.  

[Dave Ritsema]

Keith Ritchards of the Stones is dead too, he just doesn't know it. 

No Doubt!

I saw a comedian in the early 90's that said he had such great seats at a Rolling Stones concert that he could see the Angel of Death hovering over Keith Richards head.  He has sure lasted a lot longer than most people thought he would!

[¿spoom]

George has been dead for years, probably not able to carry anything.  

D'oh!  I'm not a Beatles fan, so don't pay a lot of attention so such things.  My attempt to be clever backfired on me.  Edited my post.

No worries, edited mine, also. 

[¿spoom]

Keith Ritchards of the Stones is dead too, he just doesn't know it.  

No Doubt!

I saw a comedian in the early 90's that said he had such great seats at a Rolling Stones concert that he could see the Angel of Death hovering over Keith Richards head.   He has sure lasted a lot longer than most people thought he would!

Yeah, though if his book is honest, he's been far from horse and coke for a heck of a lot longer than people make out. Also, when he WAS doing it, it was usually medical grade, right from Merck. While everyone was staking out Richards, the reaper went after the Artist formally known as Alive  

[The emperor has no clothes]

George has been dead for years, probably not able to carry anything.  

D'oh!  I'm not a Beatles fan, so don't pay a lot of attention so such things.  My attempt to be clever backfired on me.  Edited my post.

No worries, edited mine, also. 

You guys are confusing the hell out of me.  You talk of George and Ringo, but you post a pic of Paul 

[Rams]

George has been dead for years, probably not able to carry anything.  

D'oh!  I'm not a Beatles fan, so don't pay a lot of attention so such things.  My attempt to be clever backfired on me.  Edited my post.

No worries, edited mine, also. 

You guys are confusing the hell out of me.  You talk of George and Ringo, but you post a pic of Paul 

Paul who?

Rams