NY Governor Cuomo Celebrates Allowing Abortion Up Until Birth

[f6john]

Those who say life begins at conception must also believe most birth control pills are considered murder also ?

You merely posed a question. But in the context of this discussion one can only wonder why? My wife’s first pregnancy ended in a miscarriage very early. It was a sad time for us but we didn’t have a funeral. Only time will prove to me if that group of cells will meet me in heaven, I leave that in the hands of the Lord. The question becomes to me, just how sacred do we view human life?

There are 1000’s of couples who would love to have children but can’t and many of them spend thousands of dollars adopting children from other countries. But for us, we are having the option of killing perfectly viable babies up to the moment of birth and possibly in the immediate time frame post birth, unbelievable!

[The emperor has no clothes]

Those who say life begins at conception must also believe most birth control pills are considered murder also ?

You merely posed a question. But in the context of this discussion one can only wonder why? My wife’s first pregnancy ended in a miscarriage very early. It was a sad time for us but we didn’t have a funeral. Only time will prove to me if that group of cells will meet me in heaven, I leave that in the hands of the Lord. The question becomes to me, just how sacred do we view human life?

There are 1000’s of couples who would love to have children but can’t and many of them spend thousands of dollars adopting children from other countries. But for us, we are having the option of killing perfectly viable babies up to the moment of birth and possibly in the immediate time frame post birth, unbelievable!

I posed the question because many of the recent posters had unequivocally stated that life begins at conception. Which as I understand it is when the egg becomes fertilized by a sperm. As I also understand it most birth control pills don't prevent conception, but prevent the fertilized egg from implanting in the uterus. Essentially flushing this fertilized egg out . So it seem by this , use of birth control pills would also be murder in these people's minds.

[..]

Now the Virginia Governor is saying the law will allow a child to be born then the parents and doctors will discuss if it should live or not. This has turned into premeditated murder.

I'm beginning to believe that the conspiracy about chem trails is true and the released chemicals are affecting only a portion of the population and this is the start of the zombie apocalypse.

Otherwise how could anything as foul as this become a national conversation.

[f6john]

In today’s world I guess we have to pick our battles. Yes, life does begin at conception and if you believe in the Holy Bible, in Jeremiah 1:5 it reads , before I formed you in the womb, I knew you. We all know that people interpret the scriptures differently, but one thing is clear to me, in Gods eye no child is a mistake anywhere along the line of development.

[Gavin_Sons]

i'm not completely opposed to abortion but i am opposed of it after the first trimester. You shouldn't get the option of killing your baby after 12 weeks. Yes lots can happen after 12 weeks and if the mother is at risk then yes take the baby out. But to murder a healthy baby in a healthy mother is crazy. I read somewhere that the democrats think the wall is immoral, but in the same breath think it is perfectly fine to murder a newborn baby. WTF is wrong with these people?   

[Moonshot_1]

Those who say life begins at conception must also believe most birth control pills are considered murder also ?

You merely posed a question. But in the context of this discussion one can only wonder why? My wife’s first pregnancy ended in a miscarriage very early. It was a sad time for us but we didn’t have a funeral. Only time will prove to me if that group of cells will meet me in heaven, I leave that in the hands of the Lord. The question becomes to me, just how sacred do we view human life?

There are 1000’s of couples who would love to have children but can’t and many of them spend thousands of dollars adopting children from other countries. But for us, we are having the option of killing perfectly viable babies up to the moment of birth and possibly in the immediate time frame post birth, unbelievable!

I posed the question because many of the recent posters had unequivocally stated that life begins at conception. Which as I understand it is when the egg becomes fertilized by a sperm. As I also understand it most birth control pills don't prevent conception, but prevent the fertilized egg from implanting in the uterus. Essentially flushing this fertilized egg out . So it seem by this , use of birth control pills would also be murder in these people's minds.

No, it wouldn't be murder. The woman taking birth control is altering her body's chemistry so to not become pregnant. The woman's body is simply not giving the "fertilized egg" a place to live. No one is killing it and it dies naturally.

The issue is actively killing an individual known to exist and to do so for no reason or relatively petty reasons.

I also believe that there could be scenarios where a third trimester, even near the moment of birth abortion can be ethical and moral. But it should still be on the books as being illegal and such actions judged by society in a court of law.

[Gryphon Rider]

Those who say life begins at conception must also believe most birth control pills are considered murder also ?

You merely posed a question. But in the context of this discussion one can only wonder why? My wife’s first pregnancy ended in a miscarriage very early. It was a sad time for us but we didn’t have a funeral. Only time will prove to me if that group of cells will meet me in heaven, I leave that in the hands of the Lord. The question becomes to me, just how sacred do we view human life?

There are 1000’s of couples who would love to have children but can’t and many of them spend thousands of dollars adopting children from other countries. But for us, we are having the option of killing perfectly viable babies up to the moment of birth and possibly in the immediate time frame post birth, unbelievable!

I posed the question because many of the recent posters had unequivocally stated that life begins at conception. Which as I understand it is when the egg becomes fertilized by a sperm. As I also understand it most birth control pills don't prevent conception, but prevent the fertilized egg from implanting in the uterus. Essentially flushing this fertilized egg out . So it seem by this , use of birth control pills would also be murder in these people's minds.

From https://www.verywellhealth.com/how-the-pill-works-906933:

There are three ways that the pill works to prevent pregnancy.
1. The main way the pill works is by preventing a woman's body from ovulating during her monthly menstrual cycle. So, if the ovary does not release an egg, then there is nothing there for a sperm to fertilize. The pill (and hormonal contraception) may also make the fallopian tubes less likely to move an egg toward the uterus.
2. The next way that the pill and other hormonal contraception work is that they help to thicken your cervical mucus (the fluid found around the cervix/opening of the uterus). The pill makes your mucus sticky, so when sperm try to get through the cervix, this sticky mucus makes it much harder for them to swim through — so it is more difficult to reach and fertilize the egg.
3. The final way that the pill works to prevent pregnancy has to do with the uterine lining. Hormonal contraceptives may cause changes to the lining of the uterus. The hormones in these methods can thin out or prevent the growth of uterine tissue. This can lower the chances that implantation will take place.

In today’s world I guess we have to pick our battles. Yes, life does begin at conception and if you believe in the Holy Bible, in Jeremiah 1:5 it reads , before I formed you in the womb, I knew you. We all know that people interpret the scriptures differently, but one thing is clear to me, in Gods eye no child is a mistake anywhere along the line of development.

I don't think that verse was intended by God to communicate at which moment He creates a soul, connecting it to the developing baby.  The entire verse reads,

“Before I formed you in the womb I knew [or chose] you,
    before you were born I set you apart;
    I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.”

Reading the entire verse (and the surrounding text), it becomes obvious that it records God telling Jeremiah that He had plans for him well before he came into being, which is also true of His choosing us for salvation, as written in Ephesians 1:4, "...he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him."

That being said, when my wife and I were married, she used the pill with the understanding that it prevented ovulation, and thus conception.  I think we would have discussed it further if we thought there was a chance that it allowed conception but prevented implantation.

[Gavin_Sons]

Those who say life begins at conception must also believe most birth control pills are considered murder also ?

You merely posed a question. But in the context of this discussion one can only wonder why? My wife’s first pregnancy ended in a miscarriage very early. It was a sad time for us but we didn’t have a funeral. Only time will prove to me if that group of cells will meet me in heaven, I leave that in the hands of the Lord. The question becomes to me, just how sacred do we view human life?

There are 1000’s of couples who would love to have children but can’t and many of them spend thousands of dollars adopting children from other countries. But for us, we are having the option of killing perfectly viable babies up to the moment of birth and possibly in the immediate time frame post birth, unbelievable!

I posed the question because many of the recent posters had unequivocally stated that life begins at conception. Which as I understand it is when the egg becomes fertilized by a sperm. As I also understand it most birth control pills don't prevent conception, but prevent the fertilized egg from implanting in the uterus. Essentially flushing this fertilized egg out . So it seem by this , use of birth control pills would also be murder in these people's minds.

From https://www.verywellhealth.com/how-the-pill-works-906933:

There are three ways that the pill works to prevent pregnancy.
1. The main way the pill works is by preventing a woman's body from ovulating during her monthly menstrual cycle. So, if the ovary does not release an egg, then there is nothing there for a sperm to fertilize. The pill (and hormonal contraception) may also make the fallopian tubes less likely to move an egg toward the uterus.
2. The next way that the pill and other hormonal contraception work is that they help to thicken your cervical mucus (the fluid found around the cervix/opening of the uterus). The pill makes your mucus sticky, so when sperm try to get through the cervix, this sticky mucus makes it much harder for them to swim through — so it is more difficult to reach and fertilize the egg.
3. The final way that the pill works to prevent pregnancy has to do with the uterine lining. Hormonal contraceptives may cause changes to the lining of the uterus. The hormones in these methods can thin out or prevent the growth of uterine tissue. This can lower the chances that implantation will take place.

In today’s world I guess we have to pick our battles. Yes, life does begin at conception and if you believe in the Holy Bible, in Jeremiah 1:5 it reads , before I formed you in the womb, I knew you. We all know that people interpret the scriptures differently, but one thing is clear to me, in Gods eye no child is a mistake anywhere along the line of development.

I don't think that verse was intended by God to communicate at which moment He creates a soul, connecting it to the developing baby.  The entire verse reads,

“Before I formed you in the womb I knew [or chose] you,
    before you were born I set you apart;
    I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.”

Reading the entire verse (and the surrounding text), it becomes obvious that it records God telling Jeremiah that He had plans for him well before he came into being, which is also true of His choosing us for salvation, as written in Ephesians 1:4, "...he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him."

That being said, when my wife and I were married, she used the pill with the understanding that it prevented ovulation, and thus conception.  I think we would have discussed it further if we thought there was a chance that it allowed conception but prevented implantation.

Perfect, so there is no egg to fertilize therefore there can be no conception. Busts meatheads theory to pieces. 

[98valk]

Those who say life begins at conception must also believe most birth control pills are considered murder also ?

You merely posed a question. But in the context of this discussion one can only wonder why? My wife’s first pregnancy ended in a miscarriage very early. It was a sad time for us but we didn’t have a funeral. Only time will prove to me if that group of cells will meet me in heaven, I leave that in the hands of the Lord. The question becomes to me, just how sacred do we view human life?

There are 1000’s of couples who would love to have children but can’t and many of them spend thousands of dollars adopting children from other countries. But for us, we are having the option of killing perfectly viable babies up to the moment of birth and possibly in the immediate time frame post birth, unbelievable!

I posed the question because many of the recent posters had unequivocally stated that life begins at conception. Which as I understand it is when the egg becomes fertilized by a sperm. As I also understand it most birth control pills don't prevent conception, but prevent the fertilized egg from implanting in the uterus. Essentially flushing this fertilized egg out . So it seem by this , use of birth control pills would also be murder in these people's minds.

From https://www.verywellhealth.com/how-the-pill-works-906933:

There are three ways that the pill works to prevent pregnancy.
1. The main way the pill works is by preventing a woman's body from ovulating during her monthly menstrual cycle. So, if the ovary does not release an egg, then there is nothing there for a sperm to fertilize. The pill (and hormonal contraception) may also make the fallopian tubes less likely to move an egg toward the uterus.
2. The next way that the pill and other hormonal contraception work is that they help to thicken your cervical mucus (the fluid found around the cervix/opening of the uterus). The pill makes your mucus sticky, so when sperm try to get through the cervix, this sticky mucus makes it much harder for them to swim through — so it is more difficult to reach and fertilize the egg.
3. The final way that the pill works to prevent pregnancy has to do with the uterine lining. Hormonal contraceptives may cause changes to the lining of the uterus. The hormones in these methods can thin out or prevent the growth of uterine tissue. This can lower the chances that implantation will take place.

In today’s world I guess we have to pick our battles. Yes, life does begin at conception and if you believe in the Holy Bible, in Jeremiah 1:5 it reads , before I formed you in the womb, I knew you. We all know that people interpret the scriptures differently, but one thing is clear to me, in Gods eye no child is a mistake anywhere along the line of development.

I don't think that verse was intended by God to communicate at which moment He creates a soul, connecting it to the developing baby.  The entire verse reads,

“Before I formed you in the womb I knew [or chose] you,
    before you were born I set you apart;
    I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.”

Reading the entire verse (and the surrounding text), it becomes obvious that it records God telling Jeremiah that He had plans for him well before he came into being, which is also true of His choosing us for salvation, as written in Ephesians 1:4, "...he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him."

That being said, when my wife and I were married, she used the pill with the understanding that it prevented ovulation, and thus conception.  I think we would have discussed it further if we thought there was a chance that it allowed conception but prevented implantation.

Perfect, so there is no egg to fertilize therefore there can be no conception. Busts meatheads theory to pieces. 

#3 is what MH and I wrote. egg becomes fertilize, Life and then is prevented from growing. I could be wrong on that, but that is what I read.

[..]

It's killing a nine month old baby.

Simple as that.

So easy to be distracted or deflected.

[Willow]

I posed the question because many of the recent posters had unequivocally stated that life begins at conception. Which as I understand it is when the egg becomes fertilized by a sperm. As I also understand it most birth control pills don't prevent conception, but prevent the fertilized egg from implanting in the uterus. Essentially flushing this fertilized egg out . So it seem by this , use of birth control pills would also be murder in these people's minds.

During the time following copulation there may be many sperm and egg joining but most are simply flushed away as one egg implants in the uterus the body will normally not allow another to implant.  The rare exception is when non-identical (the common name is incorrect) twins are conceived likely due to two eggs (or more) implanting at almost the exact same time

These flushed joinings, are they fetuses aborted by nature?  Hardly so.  If they are the vast majority of fetuses are aborted by nature before life begins.  A logical assessment would determine that conception doesn't truly begin when the sperm and egg unite but later, no earlier than implantation.  A doctor friend of mine, a KU professor, told me the fetus isn't actually formed until about seven days after copulation.

I am pro-life.  I don't base my position on when life is begun but on the right to determine life and death does not belong in the hands of humans.

The abortion issue itself does not begin with the legalization of a procedure to terminate a pregnancy.  it is a natural progression of a cultural focus upon self and the right of the individual to not accept the natural consequence of one's behavior.  I equate the practice (legalization) of abortion to the ancient practice in some cultures of child sacrifice done to gain favor with the controllers of life so the the remaining individuals could enjoy prosperity or release from unwanted consequence.  Our culture seems to be adopting more and more the worship of ourselves and our freedom as the cultural religion.

...
I also believe that there could be scenarios where a third trimester, even near the moment of birth abortion can be ethical and moral. But it should still be on the books as being illegal and such actions judged by society in a court of law.

During President Clinton's terms I seem to remember that he vetoed a bill against partial birth abortion because it did not include an exception for the health of the mother.  The irony of that is that once the baby is positioned for a partial birth abortion there is simply no way completing the delivery could have any detrimental impact on the mother's health.  I believe that is true also of late term abortion although maybe not as apparent.  I can see no moral or ethical reason to excuse the killing of a baby about to be born.      

[Robert]

Now the Virginia Governor is saying the law will allow a child to be born then the parents and doctors will discuss if it should live or not. This has turned into premeditated murder.

I'm beginning to believe that the conspiracy about chem trails is true and the released chemicals are affecting only a portion of the population and this is the start of the zombie apocalypse.

Otherwise how could anything as foul as this become a national conversation.

This is totally disgusting

Virginia Delegate Kathy Tran Submitted Bill To Save Caterpillars On Same Day As Late-Stage Abortion Bill

The Democratic Virginia delegate who has recently come under fire for sponsoring a bill in the Virginia House of Delegates that would allow the termination of a pregnancy up to 40 weeks old, is also the chief patron of a bill that would protect the lives of “fall cankerworms” during certain months.

Democratic Virginia Del. Kathy Tran introduced “House Bill No. 2495 – Fall cankerworm; spraying prohibited during certain months” on Jan. 9, the same day as “House Bill No. 2491 — Abortion; eliminate certain requirements.”

Utterly and completely without sense


What we see today is the life battle of good and evil. Satan has always been by his followers hailed as the light bearer. The one that gave man knowledge when God was denying man the knowledge. The age of enlightenment of man bestowing on other men rights and privileges. Not God saying all men are created equal and have certain unalienable rights. As the current governmental systems take away all God given rights and dole them out to who ever they please they have trashed the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, the basis and founding of this country. Without God life can be cheap and the understanding of how and who formed us lost along with the wonder along with it.

You see it was God that created this country and gave men freedom, it was man that says see what I have done and wants to enslave his fellow man and even birth.
 
Pro 8:36  "But he who sins against me injures himself; All those who hate me love death."

God gave man the ability to create life something not even angels can do, satan and his followers destroy and take life.

It does not get more good against evil than that.

[Serk]

For an idea of what we're talking about, these are embryos 3 days post fertilization:



Even though I'm personally rather fond of these 3 specific embryos, as they went on to become my triplets, at this stage they really are, I hate to say it, just a clump of cells.

[Moonshot_1]

I posed the question because many of the recent posters had unequivocally stated that life begins at conception. Which as I understand it is when the egg becomes fertilized by a sperm. As I also understand it most birth control pills don't prevent conception, but prevent the fertilized egg from implanting in the uterus. Essentially flushing this fertilized egg out . So it seem by this , use of birth control pills would also be murder in these people's minds.

During the time following copulation there may be many sperm and egg joining but most are simply flushed away as one egg implants in the uterus the body will normally not allow another to implant.  The rare exception is when non-identical (the common name is incorrect) twins are conceived likely due to two eggs (or more) implanting at almost the exact same time

These flushed joinings, are they fetuses aborted by nature?  Hardly so.  If they are the vast majority of fetuses are aborted by nature before life begins.  A logical assessment would determine that conception doesn't truly begin when the sperm and egg unite but later, no earlier than implantation.  A doctor friend of mine, a KU professor, told me the fetus isn't actually formed until about seven days after copulation.

I am pro-life.  I don't base my position on when life is begun but on the right to determine life and death does not belong in the hands of humans.

The abortion issue itself does not begin with the legalization of a procedure to terminate a pregnancy.  it is a natural progression of a cultural focus upon self and the right of the individual to not accept the natural consequence of one's behavior.  I equate the practice (legalization) of abortion to the ancient practice in some cultures of child sacrifice done to gain favor with the controllers of life so the the remaining individuals could enjoy prosperity or release from unwanted consequence.  Our culture seems to be adopting more and more the worship of ourselves and our freedom as the cultural religion.

...
I also believe that there could be scenarios where a third trimester, even near the moment of birth abortion can be ethical and moral. But it should still be on the books as being illegal and such actions judged by society in a court of law.

During President Clinton's terms I seem to remember that he vetoed a bill against partial birth abortion because it did not include an exception for the health of the mother.  The irony of that is that once the baby is positioned for a partial birth abortion there is simply no way completing the delivery could have any detrimental impact on the mother's health.  I believe that is true also of late term abortion although maybe not as apparent.  I can see no moral or ethical reason to excuse the killing of a baby about to be born.      

As a typical and straightforward matter there would be no moral or ethical reason to excuse the killing of a baby about to be born. However there are times where such things are not typical or straightforward.

For example, a woman enters a hospital in labor. She is in extraordinary distress. You, as the doctor, see that she is not just in labor but is pregnant with triplets. The babies are also in extraordinary distress moments from death. Time is of the essence. The presentation strongly suggests that aborting one of the babies would solve the distress and save the remaining babies and mother.

What do you do?

If I am the Doctor, I make that call. I would consider such a call to be moral and ethical.

That said, I don't want it considered to be legal. I would want to knowingly "break the law" and answer for it to society.

[Moonshot_1]

For an idea of what we're talking about, these are embryos 3 days post fertilization:



Even though I'm personally rather fond of these 3 specific embryos, as they went on to become my triplets, at this stage they really are, I hate to say it, just a clump of cells.

We are all just a clump of cells.

[Serk]

Some of them are starting to realize they reached too far with this one:

https://www.richmond.com/news/virginia/government-politics/general-assembly/virginia-lawmaker-says-she-wouldn-t-have-co-sponsored-controversial/article_66ec687d-e8f4-5997-aca2-efc7d246c192.html

[Robert]

We are all just a clump of cells.

 


4 Then he said to me, “Prophesy to these bones and say to them, ‘Dry bones, hear the word of the Lord! 5 This is what the Sovereign Lord says to these bones: I will make breath[a] enter you, and you will come to life. 6 I will attach tendons to you and make flesh come upon you and cover you with skin; I will put breath in you, and you will come to life. Then you will know that I am the Lord.’”

7 So I prophesied as I was commanded. And as I was prophesying, there was a noise, a rattling sound, and the bones came together, bone to bone. 8 I looked, and tendons and flesh appeared on them and skin covered them, but there was no breath in them.

9 Then he said to me, “Prophesy to the breath; prophesy, son of man, and say to it, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: Come, breath, from the four winds and breathe into these slain, that they may live.’” 10 So I prophesied as he commanded me, and breath entered them; they came to life and stood up on their feet—a vast army.

What a great response I love it, Thanks Moonshot. We are a spirit that has a soul that has a body.

[98valk]

For an idea of what we're talking about, these are embryos 3 days post fertilization:



Even though I'm personally rather fond of these 3 specific embryos, as they went on to become my triplets, at this stage they really are, I hate to say it, just a clump of cells.

but they were alive and growing clump of cells.   the steak on my plate is a clump of cells but they are not alive and growing.