Polar Vortex Advice

[Beardo]

Brake fluid doesn’t freeze unless it’s contaminated with water. Air in the system could make them spongy too, but that would have been evident when it was warmer too.

Maybe it’s time to flush them?

They will feel stiff in the cold, but shouldn’t feel spongy.

[Rams]

Then there's the 20-something know-it-all bimbo on the local news who thinks (or her producer thinks) it's her job to give ignorent advice rather than reporting the news.  Like saying "4WD makes it easier to go but not to stop so slow down".  Excuse me, do you have ANY experience with 4WD or are you just parroting those old gems?  Yes it does help stop, especially if your 4WD has a stick and you have some driving ability.  And nowadays, newer vehicles have traction control, ABS brakes, rollover protection and so on.  Having all the wheel's speeds linked together does a LOT for control.

Pretty sure those old gems are based on those 4 Wheelers that were/are overly confident in their driving abilities and didn't quite understand the physics involved.  We've all seen them.  Similar to motorcyclist, it doesn't take very many to give all concerned a bad name.

Rams  

[Gryphon Rider]

However, wife's 2014 SUV was in garage but said her brakes felt spongy driving in this cold crap and seemed like loss of braking for sure.  She said was better, but still not great like it should be coming home when it was -16 vs. was -36 for temp (NOT wind chill temp).   

WHAT TEMP DOES BRAKE FLUID FREEZE????  Never had that happen before, but pretty sure has never been -36 for a temp either before.    Doubt low on brake fluid or possible air in the brake line??  NO idea otherwise?  Suppose to be this weekend near 40 degrees ABOVE zero so hope all gets good again concerning brakes.

Because brake fluid is hygroscopic, absorbing moisture from the air, over the years it might have enough water in it to freeze.  I know with my previous truck, when it got very cold I would have to pump the power brakes several times to get them to free up and act normally.  Until I did that they behaved like power brakes do when the engine isn't running, really stiff.  I think it may have been related to air density and engine vacuum, but I'm guessing.

[MarkT]

does 4wd really make you stop quicker than just say RWD truck when applying brakes?

It helps control the stop, but not any shorter distance IMO...

well, was -36 degrees fluctuating on hills/valleys, etc.  from -31 to -36 this morning.  My 2 year old truck squealed like a pig was getting gutted for a few minutes and had to turn the key ON and hold it ON for like 6 seconds vs. just a quick turn of the key.  Door was near frozen shut sitting outside as well.  Then,  6 miles from  home the darn traction control light stayed on after just tapping the brake lightly and had no traction control.  Shut truck off arriving at destination, turned truck back on, and was fine again light went off.

However, wife's 2014 SUV was in garage but said her brakes felt spongy driving in this cold crap and seemed like loss of braking for sure.  She said was better, but still not great like it should be coming home when it was -16 vs. was -36 for temp (NOT wind chill temp).    

I have owned and driven simple 4WD trucks and SUV's all with manual trannies and none of this new computer controlled traction control and related stuff for over 40 years, as my main vehicle and the preferred one when it gets slick.  I'm not talking about using just the brakes.  I'm using engine braking to augment the brakes, and maintaining control of the vehicle much more so than 4-bys with auto trannies.  I practice skid manuvers on frozen parking lots and lakes.  Not only can I stop faster with my foot-controlled ABS but with the hubs and center diff locked, often with positraction axles, I can control where it skids very well with the wheel speeds all linked together. The driving functions don't depend on a computer and don't fail from the cold.  They are also much more capable when you're stuck - try using a rocking rhythm to unstick a truck with an auto tranny. There's a lot to be said for KISS.  I still have such a vehicle - but it's for sale (97 Exploder with stick - does have early ABS) - when it broke down and my mechanic said it was unfixable economically - he was wrong and is no longer my mechanic.  (Thanks F6Dave)  I meanwhile replaced it with a 4Runner which I got a great buy on.  Not a stick dammit.  But it is a Limited so it has all the toys short of a Lexus.  Though it has traction control and other related computer controlled wheel gizmos, I have less confidence in it's snow & ice control than the older 4-bys I've owned.

[Rams]

Not only can I stop faster with my foot-controlled ABS but with the hubs and center diff locked, often with positraction axles, I can control where it skids very well.
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There's a lot to be said for KISS.

First, I'm interested to know where you found a posi-traction differential?   I have not seen one in years.   Everything I have seen is a limited slip which is definately the lessor of the two in my opinion.

I am not a fan of ABS but, to each their own.   I find that driving according to the conditions and feathering the brakes is more effective but, that's just my opinion.

I agree with KISS.  

Rams  

[Wizzard]

Not only can I stop faster with my foot-controlled ABS but with the hubs and center diff locked, often with positraction axles, I can control where it skids very well.
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There's a lot to be said for KISS.

First, I'm interested to know where you found a posi-traction differential?   I have not seen one in years.   Everything I have seen is a limited slip which is definately the lessor of the two in my opinion.

I am not a fan of ABS but, to each their own.   I find that driving according to the conditions and feathering the brakes is more effective but, that's just my opinion.

I agree with KISS.  

Rams  

From what I understand they are the same. Limited slip was the later term for what GM called posi-trac in the 60's when they developed it.
Posi-Trac, Sure-Trac, Tru-Trac, Trac-lok, etc. they're all different names for a limited slip differential marketed by automanufacturers.  I may be wrong, but I don't think so.

[Rams]

Not only can I stop faster with my foot-controlled ABS but with the hubs and center diff locked, often with positraction axles, I can control where it skids very well.
.
.
.
There's a lot to be said for KISS.

First, I'm interested to know where you found a posi-traction differential?   I have not seen one in years.   Everything I have seen is a limited slip which is definately the lessor of the two in my opinion.

I am not a fan of ABS but, to each their own.   I find that driving according to the conditions and feathering the brakes is more effective but, that's just my opinion.

I agree with KISS.  

Rams  

From what I understand they are the same. Limited slip was the later term for what GM called posi-trac in the 60's when they developed it.
Posi-Trac, Sure-Trac, Tru-Trac, Trac-lok, etc. they're all different names for a limited slip differential marketed by automanufacturers.  I may be wrong, but I don't think so.

You may be correct but as I remember, a posi-trac would put power to both rear wheels, similar to a "Detroit Locker".  With the "Limited Slip" differentials I have owned, the power goes from one wheel to the other.   Supposedly from the spinning wheel to the one that has traction.  In my experience, that hasn't worked out to well.   I always ask (when buying) if a posi-trac is available, it never is.   They tell me limited slip is just as good.  My experiences differ from that.

Sorry, my intent is not to derail this thread, I'm just curious.

Rams  

[Wizzard]

Rams, a "locked" differential is a totally different thing. "locked" means the left and right wheel are locked together and pull the same. When in this mode its very difficult to turn. This mode is intended for straight ahead pulling.
A locking differential is designed to overcome the chief limitation of a standard open differential by essentially "locking" both wheels on an axle together as if on a common shaft. This forces both wheels to turn in unison, regardless of the traction (or lack thereof) available to either wheel individually.

When the differential is unlocked (open differential), it allows each wheel to rotate at different speeds (such as when negotiating a turn), thus avoiding tire scuffing. An open (or unlocked) differential always provides the same torque (rotational force) to each of the two wheels, on that axle. So although the wheels can rotate at different speeds, they apply the same rotational force, even if one is entirely stationary, and the other spinning. (Equal torque, unequal rotational speed).

By contrast, a locked differential forces both left and right wheels on the same axle to rotate at the same speed under nearly all circumstances, without regard to tractional differences seen at either wheel. Therefore, each wheel can apply as much rotational force as the traction under it will allow, and the torques on each side-shaft will be unequal. (Unequal torque, equal rotational speeds). Exceptions apply to automatic lockers, discussed below.

A locked differential can provide a significant traction advantage over an open differential, but only when the traction under each wheel differs significantly.

All the above comments apply to central differentials as well as to those in each axle: full-time four-wheel-drive (often called "All Wheel Drive") vehicles have three differentials, one in each axle, and a central one between the front and rear axles (transfer case).

[Rams]

 

Rams

[Alberta Patriot]

Not only can I stop faster with my foot-controlled ABS but with the hubs and center diff locked, often with positraction axles, I can control where it skids very well.
.
.
.
There's a lot to be said for KISS.

First, I'm interested to know where you found a posi-traction differential?   I have not seen one in years.   Everything I have seen is a limited slip which is definately the lessor of the two in my opinion.

I am not a fan of ABS but, to each their own.   I find that driving according to the conditions and feathering the brakes is more effective but, that's just my opinion.

I agree with KISS.  

Rams  

With all due respect, this is not about you...it is about all the Bubble Wrapped Pinheads who were turned loose with a shiny new DL from a Franchised "CrackerJack Box School Of Driving" where failure is not an option.  
AND the Darwin Award goes to the latest graduate who just texted him/herself into a lightpost or worse!

[Wizzard]

Not only can I stop faster with my foot-controlled ABS but with the hubs and center diff locked, often with positraction axles, I can control where it skids very well.
.
.
.
There's a lot to be said for KISS.

First, I'm interested to know where you found a posi-traction differential?   I have not seen one in years.   Everything I have seen is a limited slip which is definately the lessor of the two in my opinion.

I am not a fan of ABS but, to each their own.   I find that driving according to the conditions and feathering the brakes is more effective but, that's just my opinion.

I agree with KISS.  

Rams  

With all due respect, this is not about you...it is about all the Bubble Wrapped Pinheads who were turned loose with a shiny new DL from a Franchised "CrackerJack Box School Of Driving" where failure is not an option.  
AND the Darwin Award goes to the latest graduate who just texted him/herself into a lightpost or worse!

 

[Cracker Jack]

Not only can I stop faster with my foot-controlled ABS but with the hubs and center diff locked, often with positraction axles, I can control where it skids very well.
.
.
.
There's a lot to be said for KISS.

First, I'm interested to know where you found a posi-traction differential?   I have not seen one in years.   Everything I have seen is a limited slip which is definately the lessor of the two in my opinion.

I am not a fan of ABS but, to each their own.   I find that driving according to the conditions and feathering the brakes is more effective but, that's just my opinion.

I agree with KISS.   

Rams 

With all due respect, this is not about you...it is about all the Bubble Wrapped Pinheads who were turned loose with a shiny new DL from a Franchised "CrackerJack Box School Of Driving" where failure is not an option. 
AND the Darwin Award goes to the latest graduate who just texted him/herself into a lightpost or worse!

 

What's wrong with a "CrackerJack Box School Of Driving"?
Cracker

[cookiedough]

I regularly drive over the Cascade Mountains once a week, about 80 mile trip.  During the winter there are times when there is several inches of snowpack/ice on the roads, sometime about 10 miles of really bad, sometimes 40 miles of it.  I prefer temps to be in the teens or low 20's. as there is better traction.  Temps around 30 makes for a lot slower/slippery drive.

I do take extra clothes/boots plus some water when I make this trip.  AND do have extra weight in back of pickup truck plus shovel/pop-rope for those time when I screw up or may need to help someone else.  So far in 10 years of doing this have kept the truck on the road, can't say the same for other drivers.

I doubt weight in the back of a 4wd truck makes much difference ONLY if in 4wd, but I know for sure 2wd truck 400lbs. or so helps a lot from spinning out/traction - been there done that when in the 90s I felt that 4wd was not much needed buying my first truck being ONLY 2wd.  To be honest,  4wd is nice in the 5-10 days per winter is really needed around me, but 2wd will do just not as safe and the older I get, the more pissed off I get pulling away from a stop sign on snow/ice and in 2wd ONLY,  my 4wd truck does NOT MOVE and spins and spins barely creeping forward.  Rear locking differential found out helps a lot had that when I used to buy chevy silverados, but my current tundra in 2wd sucks for sure in winter nothing but spinning tires and not moving when in 2wd blaming it on their shitty traction control system and shitty factory stock bridgestone passenger tires.

[cookiedough]

does 4wd really make you stop quicker than just say RWD truck when applying brakes?

It helps control the stop, but not any shorter distance IMO...

well, was -36 degrees fluctuating on hills/valleys, etc.  from -31 to -36 this morning.  My 2 year old truck squealed like a pig was getting gutted for a few minutes and had to turn the key ON and hold it ON for like 6 seconds vs. just a quick turn of the key.  Door was near frozen shut sitting outside as well.  Then,  6 miles from  home the darn traction control light stayed on after just tapping the brake lightly and had no traction control.  Shut truck off arriving at destination, turned truck back on, and was fine again light went off.

However, wife's 2014 SUV was in garage but said her brakes felt spongy driving in this cold crap and seemed like loss of braking for sure.  She said was better, but still not great like it should be coming home when it was -16 vs. was -36 for temp (NOT wind chill temp).    

I have owned and driven simple 4WD trucks and SUV's all with manual trannies and none of this new computer controlled traction control and related stuff for over 40 years, as my main vehicle and the preferred one when it gets slick.  I'm not talking about using just the brakes.  I'm using engine braking to augment the brakes, and maintaining control of the vehicle much more so than 4-bys with auto trannies.  I practice skid manuvers on frozen parking lots and lakes.  Not only can I stop faster with my foot-controlled ABS but with the hubs and center diff locked, often with positraction axles, I can control where it skids very well with the wheel speeds all linked together. The driving functions don't depend on a computer and don't fail from the cold.  They are also much more capable when you're stuck - try using a rocking rhythm to unstick a truck with an auto tranny. There's a lot to be said for KISS.  I still have such a vehicle - but it's for sale (97 Exploder with stick - does have early ABS) - when it broke down and my mechanic said it was unfixable economically - he was wrong and is no longer my mechanic.  (Thanks F6Dave)  I meanwhile replaced it with a 4Runner which I got a great buy on.  Not a stick dammit.  But it is a Limited so it has all the toys short of a Lexus.  Though it has traction control and other related computer controlled wheel gizmos, I have less confidence in it's snow & ice control than the older 4-bys I've owned.

the modern traction control in most situations for me sucks on my 2007 and newer toyota tundras.  It cuts power to the rear wheels and applies brake pressure as needed to NOT get you moving in slippery conditions.  It is only good for not,  having the truck in 2wd, loosing control doing a donut or spinning out of control, both 99% of the time I can do without with this modern traction control system.  I absolutely HATE when in 2wd when there is 1 cm of snow at a stop having the truck in 2wd and NOT moving forward unable to spin the tires with traction control activated.  ONLY 2-3 times it has saved me from spinning out doing 50+  mph but both times I was stupid enough to be using cruise control going around a corner in winter and roads were slippery.  The traction control prevented me from spinning out and also deactivated instantly the cruise control which saved me those few times.  Modern vehicles with traction control I guess can be good and bad, depending on the situation and driver involved. 

There is something to be said about old school 4wd vehicles not having all these fancy gadgets and doing the job getting you to where you need to go just as good, if not better.  I do like though that my tundra truck automatic has engine braking doing a great job at that if I tap the brakes fairly hard say going downhill it downshifts sending the rpms up to 2500 to 3K vs. 1600 rpms and maintains current speed without going from say 60 to over 70 mph on a downhill incline.  Comes in handy especially towing a trailer. 

[0leman]

I regularly drive over the Cascade Mountains once a week, about 80 mile trip.  During the winter there are times when there is several inches of snowpack/ice on the roads, sometime about 10 miles of really bad, sometimes 40 miles of it.  I prefer temps to be in the teens or low 20's. as there is better traction.  Temps around 30 makes for a lot slower/slippery drive.

I do take extra clothes/boots plus some water when I make this trip.  AND do have extra weight in back of pickup truck plus shovel/pop-rope for those time when I screw up or may need to help someone else.  So far in 10 years of doing this have kept the truck on the road, can't say the same for other drivers.

I doubt weight in the back of a 4wd truck makes much difference ONLY if in 4wd, but I know for sure 2wd truck 400lbs. or so helps a lot from spinning out/traction - been there done that when in the 90s I felt that 4wd was not much needed buying my first truck being ONLY 2wd.  To be honest,  4wd is nice in the 5-10 days per winter is really needed around me, but 2wd will do just not as safe and the older I get, the more pissed off I get pulling away from a stop sign on snow/ice and in 2wd ONLY,  my 4wd truck does NOT MOVE and spins and spins barely creeping forward.  Rear locking differential found out helps a lot had that when I used to buy chevy silverados, but my current tundra in 2wd sucks for sure in winter nothing but spinning tires and not moving when in 2wd blaming it on their shitty traction control system and shitty factory stock bridgestone passenger tires.

Weight on rear axel will give any pickup truck some more traction as most truck don't have much weight on those wheels..  one of the biggest factor in traction is kind of tires and tread on those tires, passenger tires on a truck doesn't make sense.

I spent my working life driving on snowy roads in the winter.  Sometimes the roads were snowpack/ice sometimes I was "breaking trail".  Learning to apply the right amount of gas to the pedal is the hardest part to driving on those roads.  We would go out to a store's parking lot after the first snow of the year, and play on the empty parking lo get a feel for driving on the snow.  Here in OR we are allowed to have studded snow tires.  But I don't like them as they tend to make ruts in the roads (lots of road damage).  I have what is called "sipped" done to my tires on both vehicles, almost as good a studs but can run tires year around.

[cookiedough]

agree P tires meaning passenger tires on any 4wd truck or any truck for that matter are not very good in snow only say 1st year of driving is all and even then, marginal at best.    Unfortunately, this is what they put on the tundra from factory OEM.   Mine will be worn out around 36--40K miles before next winter and will make due with 4/16" tread as of now thru winter and this coming summer.  They do slip and spin since P tires being these bridgestone duelers are only good for summer driving is all. 

Next set of tires am sure will last another 40K miles being better quality than cheap OEM tires that most mfgs. put on new vehicles from factory and will be LT tires not P tires and preferably snow rated.  I do not need AGRESSIVE off road tires, but something surely better than just road P (passenger) tires.

[MarkT]

agree P tires meaning passenger tires on any 4wd truck or any truck for that matter are not very good in snow only say 1st year of driving is all and even then, marginal at best.    Unfortunately, this is what they put on the tundra from factory OEM.   Mine will be worn out around 36--40K miles before next winter and will make due with 4/16" tread as of now thru winter and this coming summer.  They do slip and spin since P tires being these bridgestone duelers are only good for summer driving is all. 

Next set of tires am sure will last another 40K miles being better quality than cheap OEM tires that most mfgs. put on new vehicles from factory and will be LT tires not P tires and preferably snow rated.  I do not need AGRESSIVE off road tires, but something surely better than just road P (passenger) tires.

This 4Runner has Bridgestone P tires - the 20" size - and I'm not impressed with them.  Tics me off, I planned to run the wheels off the Exploder so I put expensive Michelins on it last year - shortly after that it puked.  Now that's a sales point when I get done prepping it and put it on CL but no doubt it won't increase the price enough to recover the tire cost.  I'm likely putting Michelins on the 4Runner when they wear down but that's gonna be a while they are pretty new.

[msb]

agree P tires meaning passenger tires on any 4wd truck or any truck for that matter are not very good in snow only say 1st year of driving is all and even then, marginal at best.    Unfortunately, this is what they put on the tundra from factory OEM.   Mine will be worn out around 36--40K miles before next winter and will make due with 4/16" tread as of now thru winter and this coming summer.  They do slip and spin since P tires being these bridgestone duelers are only good for summer driving is all. 

Next set of tires am sure will last another 40K miles being better quality than cheap OEM tires that most mfgs. put on new vehicles from factory and will be LT tires not P tires and preferably snow rated.  I do not need AGRESSIVE off road tires, but something surely better than just road P (passenger) tires.

This 4Runner has Bridgestone P tires - the 20" size - and I'm not impressed with them.  Tics me off, I planned to run the wheels off the Exploder so I put expensive Michelins on it last year - shortly after that it puked.  Now that's a sales point when I get done prepping it and put it on CL but no doubt it won't increase the price enough to recover the tire cost.  I'm likely putting Michelins on the 4Runner when they wear down but that's gonna be a while they are pretty new.

When I bought my new Tacoma TRD Off Road in 2017 I changed out the Bridgestone P rated tires it came with with a good one size up Toyo 10 ply AT, snow-rated  LT  tire . Purchased the tires before hand and as part of the purchase deal  had the dealer agree to change them out before I drove the truck off the lot. Sold the brand new OEM tires for a decent price on CL. Think it wound up costing me 400.00 or so net. Well worth it to me. I should have done the same with my last new vehicle in 2012...my Jeep Wrangler.

[Beardo]

Nothing stupider than 20” P series tires on a truck. It’s a truck, not a sports car.  They put them on to get the best mileage for the commercials and that’s all they’re good for. Unless it’s a mall-crawler...which I guess a lot of them are.

First thing I did when I bought my last truck...find out the smallest diameter wheels will fit over the brakes on it, in my case: 17”, then put on actual truck tires on the new rims. 

I personally think 15’s, 16”s or 17’s with lots of rubber look waaaaaay better than low profile tires on a truck. Drive much smoother, less wear on suspension, better traction, less rim damage.