I guess I just don't understand

[Westernbiker]

WHAT THE HECK HAPPENED? 

Sterling Hayden, US Marines and OSS. Smuggled guns into Yugoslavia and parachuted into Croatia .

James Stewart, US Army Air Corps. Bomber pilot who rose to the rank of General.

Ernest Borgnine, US Navy. Gunners Mate 1c, destroyer USS Lamberton.

Ed McMahon, US Marines. Fighter Pilot. (Flew OE-1 Bird Dogs over Korea as well.)

Telly Savalas, US Army.

Walter Matthau, US Army Air Corps., B-24 Radioman/Gunner and cryptographer.

Steve Forrest, US Army. Wounded, Battle of the Bulge.

Jonathan Winters, USMC. Battleship USS Wisconsin and Carrier USS Bon Homme Richard. Anti-aircraft gunner, Battle of Okinawa

Paul Newman, US Navy Rear seat gunner/radioman, torpedo bombers of USS Bunker Hill

Kirk Douglas, US Navy. Sub-chaser in the Pacific. Wounded in action and medically discharged.

Robert Mitchum, US Army.

Dale Robertson, US Army. Tank Commander in North Africa under Patton. Wounded twice Battlefield Commission.

Henry Fonda, US Navy. Destroyer USS Satterlee.

John Carroll, US Army Air Corps. Pilot in North Africa. Broke his back in a crash.

Lee Marvin US Marines. Sniper. Wounded in action on Saipan. Buried in Arlington National Cemetery , Sec. 7A next to Greg Boyington and Joe Louis.

Art Carney, US Army. Wounded on Normandy beach, D-Day. Limped for the rest of his life.

Wayne Morris, US Navy fighter pilot, USS Essex. Downed seven Japanese fighters.

Rod Steiger, US Navy. Was aboard one of the ships that launched the Doolittle Raid.

Tony Curtis, US Navy. Sub tender USS Proteus. In Tokyo Bay for the surrender of Japan

Larry Storch. US Navy. Sub tender USS Proteus with Tony Curtis.

Forrest Tucker, US Army. Enlisted as a private, rose to Lieutenant.

Robert Montgomery, US Navy.

George Kennedy, US Army. Enlisted after Pearl Harbor , stayed in sixteen years.

Mickey Rooney, US Army under Patton. Bronze Star.

Denver Pyle, US Navy. Wounded in the Battle of Guadalcanal. Medically discharged.

Burgess Meredith, US Army Air Corps.

DeForest Kelley, US Army Air Corps.

Robert Stack, US Navy. Gunnery Officer.

Neville Brand, US Army, Europe. Was awarded the Silver Star and Purple Heart.

Tyrone Power, US Marines. Transport pilot in the Pacific Theater.

Charlton Heston, US Army Air Corps. Radio operator and aerial gunner on a B-25, Aleutians

Danny Aiello, US Army. Lied about his age to enlist at 16. Served three years.

James Arness, US Army. As an infantryman, he was severely wounded at Anzio, Italy.

Efram Zimbalist, Jr., US Army. Purple Heart for a severe wound received at Huertgen Forest

Mickey Spillane, US Army Air Corps, Fighter Pilot and later Instructor Pilot.

Rod Serling. US Army. 11th Airborne Division in the Pacific. He jumped at Tagaytay in the Philippines and was later wounded in Manila.

Gene Autry, US Army Air Corps. Crewman on transports that ferried supplies over "The Hump" in the China-Burma-India Theater.

William Holden, US Army Air Corps.

Alan Hale Jr, US Coast Guard.

Russell Johnson, US Army Air Corps. B-24 crewman who was awarded Purple Heart when his aircraft was shot down by the Japanese in the Philippines

William Conrad, US Army Air Corps.  Fighter Pilot.

Frank Sutton, US Army. Took part in 14 assault landings, including Leyte, Luzon, Bataan and Corregidor .

Jackie Coogan, US Army Air Corps. Volunteered for gliders and flew troops and materials into Burma behind enemy lines.

Tom Bosley, US Navy.

Claude Akins, US Army. Signal Corps., Burma and the Philippines

Chuck Connors, US Army. Tank-warfare instructor.

Harry Carey Jr., US Navy.

Mel Brooks, US Army. Combat Engineer. Saw action in the Battle of the Bulge

Robert Altman, US Army Air Corps. B-24 Co-Pilot.

Pat Hingle, US Navy. Destroyer USS Marshall

Fred Gwynne, US Navy. Radioman.

Karl Malden, US Army Air Corps. 8th Air Force, NCO.

Earl Holliman, US Navy. Lied about his age to enlist. Discharged after a year when they Navy found out.

Rock Hudson, US Navy. Aircraft mechanic, the Philippines .

Harvey Korman, US Navy.

Aldo Ray. US Navy. UDT frogman, Okinawa .

Don Knotts, US Army, Pacific Theater.

Don Rickles, US Navy aboard USS Cyrene.

Harry Dean Stanton, US Navy  Served aboard an LST in the Battle of Okinawa

Soupy Sales, US Navy. Served on USS Randall in the South Pacific.

Lee Van Cleef, US Navy. Served aboard a sub chaser then a mine sweeper.

Clifton James, US Army, South Pacific. Was awarded the Silver Star, Bronze Star, and Purple Heart.

Ted Knight, US Army, Combat Engineers.

Jack Warden, US Navy, 1938-1942, then US Army, 1942-1945. 101st Airborne Division.

Don Adams. US Marines. Wounded on Guadalcanal, then served as a Drill Instructor.

James Gregory, US Navy and US Marines.

Brian Keith, US Marines. Radioman/Gunner in Dauntless dive-bombers.

Fess Parker, US Navy and US Marines. Booted from pilot training for being too tall, joined Marines as a radio operator.

Charles Durning. US Army. Landed at Normandy on D-Day. Shot multiple times. Awarded the Silver Star and Bronze Star and three Purple Hearts.Survived Malmedy Massacre.

Raymond Burr, US Navy. Shot in the stomach on Okinawa and medically discharged.

Hugh O’Brian, US Marines.

Robert Ryan, US Marines.

Eddie Albert , US Coast Guard. Bronze Star with Combat V for saving several Marines under heavy fire as pilot of a landing craft during the invasion of Tarawa

Cark Gable, US Army Air Corps. B-17 gunner over Europe .

Charles Bronson, US Army Air Corps. B-29 gunner, wounded in action.

Peter Graves, US Army Air Corps.

Buddy Hackett, US Army anti-aircraft gunner.

Victor Mature, US Coast Guard.

Jack Palance, US Army Air Corps. Severely injured bailing out of a burning B-24 bomber.

Robert Preston, US Army Air Corps. Intelligence Officer

Cesar Romero, US Coast Guard. Participated in the invasions of Tinian and Saipan on the assault transport USS Cavalier.

Norman Fell, US Army Air Corps., Tail Gunner, Pacific Theater.

Jason Robards, US Navy. Was aboard heavy cruiser USS Northampton when it was sunk off Guadalcanal. Also served on the USS Nashville during the invasion of the Philippines, surviving a kamikaze hit that caused 223 casualties.

Steve Reeves, US Army, Philippines .

Dennis Weaver, US Navy. Pilot.

Robert Taylor, US Navy. Instructor Pilot.

Randolph Scott. Tried to enlist in the Marines but was rejected due to injuries sustained in US Army, World War 1.

Ronald Reagan. US Army. Was a 2nd Lt. in the Cavalry Reserves before the war. His poor eyesight kept him from being sent overseas with his unitwhen war came so he transferred to the Army Air Corps Public Relations Unit where he served for the duration.

John Wayne Declared "4F medically unfit" due to pre-existing injuries, he nonetheless attempted to volunteer three times (Army, Navy and Film Corps. so he gets honorable mention.

And of course we have Audie Murphy, America ’s most-decorated soldier, who became a Hollywood star as a result of his US Army service that included his being awarded the Medal of Honor.
 
Would someone please remind me again how many of today’s Hollywood elite put their careers on hold to enlist in Iraq or Afghanistan? The only one who even comes close was Pat Tillman, who turned down a contract offer of $36 million over three years from the Arizona Cardinals to enlist in the US Army after September 11, 2001, and serve as a Ranger in Afghanistan , where he died in 2004. But rather than being lauded for his choice and his decision to put his country before his career, he was mocked and derided by many of his peers.

Ladies and Gentlemen, I submit to you that this is not the America today that it was seventy years ago. And I, for one, am saddened. My generation grew up watching, being entertained by and laughing with so many of these fine people, never really knowing what they contributed to the war effort.

Like millions of Americans during the WWII, there was a job that needed doing they didn’t question, they went and did it, those that came home returned to their now new normal life and carried on, very few ever saying what they did or saw.
 
They took it as their “responsibility”, their “duty” to Country, to protect and preserve our freedoms and way of life, not just for themselves but for all future generations to come. As a member of a later generation, I’m forever humbly in their debt!

Please pass this on to remind people of what real men were like, not the show dogs of today’s screen.

 

[Jess from VA]

I knew a number of those, but not all of them.

[bscrive]

I will put my flame suit on and say that those illustrious men were in WW2, where the reason for fighting was pretty plain and clear.  Hitler had to be stopped.

Iraq and Afghanistan was because of oil.  Big difference.  I wouldn't go to war for oil, why would you want to?

[sandy]

Here in AZ Pat Tilman is honored each year with the Pat Tilman run. Thousands run to raise money for charity.

[The emperor has no clothes]

I will put my flame suit on and say that those illustrious men were in WW2, where the reason for fighting was pretty plain and clear.  Hitler had to be stopped.

Iraq and Afghanistan was because of oil.  Big difference.  I wouldn't go to war for oil, why would you want to?

Afghanistan has no oil to speak of, if any.

[hubcapsc]

I will put my flame suit on and say that those illustrious men were in WW2, where the reason for fighting was pretty plain and clear.  Hitler had to be stopped.

Iraq and Afghanistan was because of oil.  Big difference.  I wouldn't go to war for oil, why would you want to?

Afghanistan has no oil to speak of, if any.

Hash oil...

-Mike

[old2soon]

           I was aware of Some of the Heroes on that list But by no means ALL of those names on that list. Thank You fer posting That List! Far as the current crop of hollyweirds goes-well board rules and decorum prevents me from saying What I think of "them". RIDE SAFE.

[bscrive]

I will put my flame suit on and say that those illustrious men were in WW2, where the reason for fighting was pretty plain and clear.  Hitler had to be stopped.

Iraq and Afghanistan was because of oil.  Big difference.  I wouldn't go to war for oil, why would you want to?

Afghanistan has no oil to speak of, if any.

Oil pipeline.

[indybobm]

Westernbiker, thank you for posting this. I am also saddened, and worried by what I see today. We have become a nation of 'I' (me). I do not reply to political posts, but this is not political. As a nation, I believe that we have lost something very important. 

[The emperor has no clothes]

I will put my flame suit on and say that those illustrious men were in WW2, where the reason for fighting was pretty plain and clear.  Hitler had to be stopped.

Iraq and Afghanistan was because of oil.  Big difference.  I wouldn't go to war for oil, why would you want to?

Afghanistan has no oil to speak of, if any.

Hash oil...

-Mike

[The emperor has no clothes]

As to the Original Post. Times have changed for sure. But it's not just Hollywood, our entire society feels they owe nothing to our country. Hell, there plenty here who feel they should not support our government with taxes or service. I think a distrust has been building since Watergate and subsequent scandals. But let's not group all into this category. There are MANY young people who feel pride and honor in serving our country.

[flsix]

Seems that we have lost our national pride. It's a shame that our children are being taught that the USA only had interests in the rest of the world for our own gains. The nation building after the defeat of Japan isn't mentioned. Also not discussed, the rebuilding of Europe after the war. History is being rewritten to put our great nation in the worst light instead of highlighting the sacrifice that so many made for the rest of the world.

I know it's not the right way to think about the situation, and I'm a little embarrassed by the feeling, but sometimes when there is no gratitude for the American lives lost when helping other nations or humanitarian aid snubbed or squandered I think....fine....let them take care of themselves. They deserve what they get.

The fact that we are such a blessed nation seems to dictate that we offer help where help is needed around the world. Too bad there is little or no gratitude for the effort.

Our celeb's in Hollywierd have righteous indignation about every tragic event worldwide but won't give credit to the USA for all the help we provide.

Trying not to make this a political rant. I too try to avoid them on this forum. This however is a frustrating subject for me.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Seems that we have lost our national pride. It's a shame that our children are being taught that the USA only had interests in the rest of the world for our own gains. The nation building after the defeat of Japan isn't mentioned. Also not discussed, the rebuilding of Europe after the war. History is being rewritten to put our great nation in the worst light instead of highlighting the sacrifice that so many made for the rest of the world.

I know it's not the right way to think about the situation, and I'm a little embarrassed by the feeling, but sometimes when there is no gratitude for the American lives lost when helping other nations or humanitarian aid snubbed or squandered I think....fine....let them take care of themselves. They deserve what they get.

The fact that we are such a blessed nation seems to dictate that we offer help where help is needed around the world. Too bad there is little or no gratitude for the effort.

Our celeb's in Hollywierd have righteous indignation about every tragic event worldwide but won't give credit to the USA for all the help we provide.

Trying not to make this a political rant. I too try to avoid them on this forum. This however is a frustrating subject for me.

To say there is no gratitude from other countries is mistaken. I spent a week in Perth Australia while in the Navy. One day I was just strolling down a little side street soaking in all the uniqueness of such a different country. I walked in a little pub and had a beer. A little old lady came in, it was probably only 2 pm or so. After hearing my American accent, she came over and started talking to me. Telling me stories of her brothers who had been in WWII. She must have bought me 3 or 4 beers and the whole time talking about how the USA had come to their aid in the war. Mind you, I was 20 years old and had done nothing. But to her and I imagine many Australians I represented a people that they were proud to call their friends. We have many friends and allies throughout the world.

[solo1]

I note that the comments jumped from WWII to Afghanistan. Again, no mention of the Korean War where 38,000 men lost their lives in the three years.

I do not mean to knock down this thread. It is eye opening to know how many of Hollywood contributed in WWII.  Don't see that any more.

On another note, it was mentioned that the US efforts were not appreciated. I know for a fact that South Korea is very appreciative of what we did there in the police action (I don't like that description). South Korea has been picking up the tab for a seven days Revisit in Korea for Korean War vets. They even pay partially for air fare there. They roll out the carpet for the vets.

As a Korean War vet who served in a support medical group in Korea in 1953 with no combat experience,, I sure won't blow my horn but let's remember those that did serve in combat like RJ . His Purple Hearts definitely put him into the valor class.  I'll always remember RJ, Semper Fi!

 The Korean War was a victory for the US and the United Nations.  Probably the only one where the UN actually worked. I know cuz I was there.

[indybobm]

I really don't think that Westerbiker was slighting anyone. WW2 was an era of its own on a much bigger scale. I served in the Vietnam era. Completely different part of our history.

[Westernbiker]

I really don't think that Westerbiker was slighting anyone. WW2 was an era of its own on a much bigger scale. I served in the Vietnam era. Completely different part of our history.

I note that the comments jumped from WWII to Afghanistan. Again, no mention of the Korean War where 38,000 men lost their lives in the three years.

I do not mean to knock down this thread. It is eye opening to know how many of Hollywood contributed in WWII.  Don't see that any more.

On another note, it was mentioned that the US efforts were not appreciated. I know for a fact that South Korea is very appreciative of what we did there in the police action (I don't like that description). South Korea has been picking up the tab for a seven days Revisit in Korea for Korean War vets. They even pay partially for air fare there. They roll out the carpet for the vets.

As a Korean War vet who served in a support medical group in Korea in 1953 with no combat experience,, I sure won't blow my horn but let's remember those that did serve in combat like RJ . His Purple Hearts definitely put him into the valor class.  I'll always remember RJ, Semper Fi!

 The Korean War was a victory for the US and the United Nations.  Probably the only one where the UN actually worked. I know cuz I was there.

As said, I was NOT trying to slight anyone, don't take it personal. Sometimes I wonder why I post here. SHEESH! 

[The emperor has no clothes]

I really don't think that Westerbiker was slighting anyone. WW2 was an era of its own on a much bigger scale. I served in the Vietnam era. Completely different part of our history.

I note that the comments jumped from WWII to Afghanistan. Again, no mention of the Korean War where 38,000 men lost their lives in the three years.

I do not mean to knock down this thread. It is eye opening to know how many of Hollywood contributed in WWII.  Don't see that any more.

On another note, it was mentioned that the US efforts were not appreciated. I know for a fact that South Korea is very appreciative of what we did there in the police action (I don't like that description). South Korea has been picking up the tab for a seven days Revisit in Korea for Korean War vets. They even pay partially for air fare there. They roll out the carpet for the vets.

As a Korean War vet who served in a support medical group in Korea in 1953 with no combat experience,, I sure won't blow my horn but let's remember those that did serve in combat like RJ . His Purple Hearts definitely put him into the valor class.  I'll always remember RJ, Semper Fi!

 The Korean War was a victory for the US and the United Nations.  Probably the only one where the UN actually worked. I know cuz I was there.

As said, I was NOT trying to slight anyone, don't take it personal. Sometimes I wonder why I post here. SHEESH! 

I certainly didn’t take your post as slighting anyone. It’s tough around here. Hang tough. 

[MAD6Gun]

I will put my flame suit on and say that those illustrious men were in WW2, where the reason for fighting was pretty plain and clear.  Hitler had to be stopped.

Iraq and Afghanistan was because of oil.  Big difference.  I wouldn't go to war for oil, why would you want to?

 The war in Afghanistan had NOTHING to do with oil. It was in finding and killing the SOB and his minions that killed 3000+ Americans on 911. Get your facts straight......

[Wizzard]

I will put my flame suit on and say that those illustrious men were in WW2, where the reason for fighting was pretty plain and clear.  Hitler had to be stopped.

Iraq and Afghanistan was because of oil.  Big difference.  I wouldn't go to war for oil, why would you want to?

 The war in Afghanistan had NOTHING to do with oil. It was in finding and killing the SOB and his minions that killed 3000+ Americans on 911. Get your facts straight......

Right on

[Pete]

Please stay on topic folks.

Thanks for the post.

Those mentioned in the original post were men who understood duty and service and being a man.
May God have mercy on their soul and they rest in peace. And thanks from a grateful country.

There are still Americans around who can and will carry the torch as they did.

There is also a loud minority of others who just need to shut up and leave or shape up.

[Savago]

Maybe it has to do with the nature of the wars that USA fought in the past and the conflicts it started/got involved lately?

Let's look on WWI and WWII: while the first is a bit debatable who was at wrong (it was really a commercial dispute between UK + France vs Germany), the second one USA was the hero who saved the day against pure evil (i.e. nazis).

Not to mention that the Japanese started the war when they attacked Peal Harbor and committed unspeakable crimes in Asia (Korea + China).

I can completely understand why young people would risk their lives back then to protect the homeland and fighting for a noble cause.

Now, fast forward to the following wars:
a) Korea: all about beating the damn commies.

b) Vietnam: same thing.

c) Iraq I: oil.

d) Afghanistan: they harbor terrorists (well, most of them trained by CIA in the 80's, but yeah, whateverz).

e) Iraq II: oil.

f) Syria: oil, again.

It is not hard to imagine why any war today that USA gets involved will not have support by young Americans and most of the world, really.

The trillions of dollars wasted, the American lives lost all to sustain an industry (oil + military industrial complex) that relies on government subsidies paid by the tax payers are a hard proposition.

Finally, the majority of young people who will face combat are generally from lower classes and come from rural areas.

The rich won't let their kids face risks (e.g. Cadet Bone Spurs) for wars that they really know is about commercial interests.

The military industrial complex has interests that goes against the good of the American public.

[Savago]

I recommend this documentary:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Why_We_Fight_(2005_film)

[Psychotic Bovine]

"Finally, the majority of young people who will face combat are generally from lower classes and come from rural areas."

No basis in fact.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/after-service/201801/are-military-members-the-lowest-our-low

The fact is that the majority of members of the military come from middle to upper middle class.

http://veteranscominghome.org/blogs/why-do-people-enlist-in-the-military-the-answer-might-surprise-you/

[Psychotic Bovine]

And I am certain that Korea was not about "beating the damn commies".  Considering that South Korea is a huge part of the global economy proves that going to Korea was the right thing to do.

[Savago]

@Bovine: interesting website, nice charts.
 

But note: "... who will face combat...".

I maybe mistaken, but probably there aren't stats of the income distribution x active assignments in the frontline.

About S. Korea: what was the size of its economy in the 50's? It only became relevant decades later after massive investment by USA on it (similar to Japan past WWII).

[Wizzard]

If we are at war we should reinstate the draft. In this order
1 All senators and congressmen sons are first.
Next it is according to wealth. Richest first and then on down the line to the poorest last.
That would assure us of the shortest war in history.

[Psychotic Bovine]

@Bovine: interesting website, nice charts.
 

But note: "... who will face combat...".

I maybe mistaken, but probably there aren't stats of the income distribution x active assignments in the frontline.

About S. Korea: what was the size of its economy in the 50's? It only became relevant decades later after massive investment by USA on it (similar to Japan past WWII).

So, if there "probably aren't stats" then how can you make a sweeping statement about it?  

[Savago]

@Bovine: By pure logic: if you are the senior officer, would you send the Senator's son to check the minefield? Or would the high brass send him to easy missions?

[Wizzard]

By pure logic: if you are the senior officer, would you send the Senator's son to check the minefield? Or would the high brass send him to easy missions?

I never said anything about odds,,, I said what I thought should be to insure it is a very short war since most of them are political anyhow

[¿spoom]

If we are at war we should reinstate the draft. In this order
1 All senators and congressmen sons are first.
Next it is according to wealth. Richest first and then on down the line to the poorest last.
That would assure us of the shortest war in history.

Respectfully disagree. Why go unfair in a different direction? If we're going to draft people, draft them. Hopefully the exemptions would be down to a very bare minimum. Certainly, college students would be expected to report at the end of the semester.

[Willow]

Maybe it has to do with the nature of the wars that USA fought in the past and the conflicts it started/got involved lately?

Let's look on WWI and WWII: while the first is a bit debatable who was at wrong (it was really a commercial dispute between UK + France vs Germany), the second one USA was the hero who saved the day against pure evil (i.e. nazis).

Not to mention that the Japanese started the war when they attacked Peal Harbor and committed unspeakable crimes in Asia (Korea + China).

I can completely understand why young people would risk their lives back then to protect the homeland and fighting for a noble cause.

Now, fast forward to the following wars:

blah, blah, blah blah blah ...

The military industrial complex has interests that goes against the good of the American public.

What a pile of BS.  Where was the oil benefit from Irag?  The Japanese started the war with the U.S by bombing Peal (sp) Harbor but you don't attribute the start of the Korean War to the North Koreans at their invasion?  cursed commies.  Please learn correct English or don't use it.  Most of the terrorist were trained by the CIA?  Some, yes, while they were fighting the U.S.S.R. (cursed commies   )

I would not consider reviewing any article that you recommended based upon your mass of misinformation.

Perhaps if you are so strongly opposed to the practices of the U.S. of A. you should consider returning to Brazil but then you couldn't make the money there to match your income here.  I hear in twenty years that will be different.  So it appears you simply came here to leech off our economy and argue that we should become more like what you left to come leech.

Just so you know there was a large portion of the population opposed to the U.S. entering the WW II conflict.  The young men who enlisted did not do so just because they agreed with the purpose but mainly because their country needed them and they felt a sense of responsibility (obligation?).  When I was young there were still a lot of us in that mode.  I suspect there are still a number left.  

The original post, if I understood it correctly, was about what was presented from Hollywood by the greatest generation as opposed to what is making up Hollywood and what they are presenting today.  

[DirtyDan]

  willow

Dan

[Savago]

@Willow: I don't even know where to start.

Odds are that this will be purged, but here it goes...

a) "Perhaps if you are so strongly opposed to the practices of the U.S. of A. you should consider returning to Brazil but then you couldn't make the money there to match your income here."

Wrong.

I was paid in USD while living in Brazil, with a *Silicon Valley* salary while having expenses in BRL. From a financial point of view, moving to USA was a bad decision:
- I pay more in taxes than in Brazil.
- I expend more (i.e. health care, rent, etc).

The only benefits:
- USA is in general a safer place.
- California has great weather + food + landscapes.

In my area of work, the job + payment is fixed to international rates. The place where you choose to live is up to you.

Crazy, hum?

I *do* oppose how the government is going against the best interest of the American people, precisely because I care about USA and its future.

If things are messed up now, wait until China is leading (so I prefer USA leading the world any day!).

b) "So it appears you simply came here to leech off our economy and argue that we should become more like what you left to come leech."

Damn... 'leech off'. Dude, that is really messed up.

I'm actually paying for you guys social security + medicare.

And let me clarify that most of the things that are going bad* in USA started to be implemented in South America (Chile, Brazil, Argentina, etc) first, decades ago. I've seen them happening there and it is quite disturbing to see happening again here.

* bad public schools, increasing crime, corrupt politicians, crumbling infrastructure, guns confiscation, destruction of social security, etc.

[Psychotic Bovine]

@Bovine: By pure logic: if you are the senior officer, would you send the Senator's son to check the minefield? Or would the high brass send him to easy missions?

I'm sorry, but this statement makes no sense to me.
It doesn't seem to have anything to do with anything.

[shortleg]

I will put my flame suit on and say that those illustrious men were in WW2, where the reason for fighting was pretty plain and clear.  Hitler had to be stopped.

Iraq and Afghanistan was because of oil.  Big difference.  I wouldn't go to war for oil, why would you want to?

   How much oil has come out of Afghanistan?
 Don't think you understand my friend,.

[Oss]

I am not OSS but I am Oss and I remember the pledge of allegiance  and singing songs in grammar school assembly Marine corps army navy air force songs and saluting the flag every morning

This is back when JFK was killed and a few years later

Kids dont see this today, they see what hollywood shows them as did we as kids

Also a whole generation just ahead of me were telling us when they came back from Vietnam dont go,  I got a draft card then the war ended  AT #348 was never going to be drafted and never thought about it during those peacetime years.

Wars are usually about money and power. Big business was thought to be good for the USA for years and colored the CIA and our foreign policy. Some good much not so good  IMHO  It so happened fascism rose aided by the failure of the world to care about a few million armenians, tens of millions of chinese and the audacity of the communists to infiltrate and do a damn good job even today of
lying to our kids.

I have no answer but I think the volunteer army was a good move and have many relatives who went in since 9-11 just as many who were in service in all the wars, conflicts etc,  I am blessed to be a free man in a free (for now) country and support our troops however I can in my own way

Perhaps we can all do more for them and show our kids by example

[Pete]

.............................................................

I'm actually paying for you guys social security + medicare.

  Just one example of a crock of BS for you.
I know that I and many others have been paying for our SS/Medi since before you were born. Making statements like that insult your audience and demean your other comments, a sure way to destroy any valid comments you may have had. No one that matters is listen, after that comment.

[Savago]

@Pete: Sorry, my mistake. I'm actually paying the social security + medicare of the future generation.

[The emperor has no clothes]

@Pete: Sorry, my mistake. I'm actually paying the social security + medicare of the future generation.

no, you were correct to begin with.

https://www.incharge.org/financial-literacy/where-do-my-social-security-tax-dollars-go/

[Savago]

@Pete: Sorry, my mistake. I'm actually paying the social security + medicare of the future generation.

no, you were correct to begin with.

https://www.incharge.org/financial-literacy/where-do-my-social-security-tax-dollars-go/

Damn, it is even worst than I thought.