Paul Manaford sentenced to prison: white collar crimes

[Savago]

Yesterday Paul Manaford was sentenced to near 4 years in Federal prison for his financial crimes. Given he already spent almost 1 year in jail after witnesses tampering, odds are he may end up doing only 2 years in Federal prison for this specific set of crimes*.

I would like to hear what are your thoughts on the subject (i.e. white collar crimes).

I got say I'm a bit disappointed by the prison sentence. It was proven that he stole 6 millions from the American public (IRS) while hiding the money he made lobbying for foreign countries.

Doing the math (6 millions/ 4 years), that would be a pay off a bit bigger than US$ 1.500.000,00 (1.5 million) per year for breaking the law.

IIRC, the recommended prison sentence for his crimes was something over 20 years.


* still pending judgement on another set of crimes.

[..]

Prosecuted and tried and sentenced. Job done.

[scooperhsd]

If anything - white collar needs even more time - most of the offenders are like Manaford / Martha Stewart types - they need to learn that the laws apply to them as well as "common folks". Judge didn't do his job correctly.

[J.Mencalice]

I do hope that the judge in Alexandria, VA makes sure that he dies in state prison, in spite of him receiving a pardon for his federal crimes.  Sentencing him to serve consecutive years would seal his fate. A liar and conspirator to defraud and cheat.  General population would cause him great mental distress and possible physical harm.  Good.  He will receive exactly what he deserves...pain and misery.  I hope he is the first of many to be delivered to the justice system for punishment and restitution on behalf of the American people.

Next up is the state of New York and here's hoping again that he does not escape justice; that he is locked up for the remainder of his natural life and no longer able to harm the United States or it's people.

[Jess from VA]

I don't have general opinions on white-collar vs blue-collar crimes. (so I can't vote)

I would exercise an evaluation of each case on its own merits, given all the facts, and given the range of criminal sentence available, and the usual sentences given for like-crimes by like-criminals, and the defendant's past record for good or bad, and then give my opinion on a just sentence.  

While white collar crime often involves piles of money, it almost never involves violence, rape, murder, arson or armed robbery.  

Once all governments make a full time business of stealing from all working people (through hundreds of creative ways) and then pissing large amounts of it away to buy votes or fund pet projects (which has been the case for a long time now), I'm not as concerned about people who minimize their taxes by unlawful means as I used to be.

It's not good...... but it's not rape, murder, arson or robbery either.

I'm not interested in Mr. Manaford enough to commit a day or two of reading and studying about it to give my opinion.  To the extent they went after him specifically because he was a past associate of our President, I'm even less interested than normal.

[G-Man]

Seems Manafort had some things thrown out by the judge in one place, yet he pled guilty to the same charges in another place.  I'm a bit confused by this.

If Manafort is guilty, he belongs in jail.  I think it sucks that his crimes were discovered in order to find dirt on anyone related to a President that has not been accused of committing any actual crimes.  The judge in NY knew this and said as much.

There's another guy who's getting swept up in this, forget his name.... fat guy with glasses.  Was on CNN the other night and he said that every time he gets called up in front of congress or the Mueller investigators is costs him $30,000.  I'm assuming that's liar, I mean lawyer, fees.   

[Moonshot_1]

The problem I got with this is that it is born out of the Special Counsel's efforts.

The way the Special Counsel statute is suppose to work is that the Special Counsel is suppose to investigate a crime. It is convened for that purpose.

In the Mueller Special Counsel case they were convened to find crime. There was no initial crime for them to investigate. Just accusations and allegations from political opponents.

The case against Manaford comes out of this and a hyperbolic political environment.
To me, this taints nearly everything.

The information we get through the "Mainstream Media" is demonstrably biased against Trump and anything or anyone connected to him.

The jury found him guilty on a number of counts and were hung on many more.
We do have to have faith in the jury.

But still, had Trump not been elected President would the case against Manaford been pursued?
Were the charges enhanced and brought to bring unbearable leverage on Manaford?
The whole thing is a travesty to me.

[Rams]

Manafort will also have to pay restitution of at least $6 million for taxes he never paid. Depending on the government's forfeiture proceeding, that amount could go as high as $25 million, Ellis said. Manafort also must pay a fine of $50,000, and he will serve three years of supervised release following his prison time.

So, it’s not just prison time.

Rams

[scooperhsd]

Manafort will also have to pay restitution of at least $6 million for taxes he never paid. Depending on the government's forfeiture proceeding, that amount could go as high as $25 million, Ellis said. Manafort also must pay a fine of $50,000, and he will serve three years of supervised release following his prison time.

So, it’s not just prison time.

Rams

That's good, but the money shouldn't be the be-all, end-all of his penalties either.

[Rams]

Manafort will also have to pay restitution of at least $6 million for taxes he never paid. Depending on the government's forfeiture proceeding, that amount could go as high as $25 million, Ellis said. Manafort also must pay a fine of $50,000, and he will serve three years of supervised release following his prison time.

So, it’s not just prison time.

Rams

That's good, but the money shouldn't be the be-all, end-all of his penalties either.

Opinions will always differ.  My suggestion would be that those unhappy with such sentences should become qualified to serve as judges.

Rams

[Pete]

I did not answer the poll, as I do not know enough about the case to comment.
And because I am not sure that I care either way, if full and complete restitution is actually done it should mitigate the sentencing.

I do not support two types of prisons, although it is prudent to separate criminals based on crimes committed. Prisons were meant to be punishment not clubhouses.

[scooperhsd]

Manafort will also have to pay restitution of at least $6 million for taxes he never paid. Depending on the government's forfeiture proceeding, that amount could go as high as $25 million, Ellis said. Manafort also must pay a fine of $50,000, and he will serve three years of supervised release following his prison time.

So, it’s not just prison time.

Rams

That's good, but the money shouldn't be the be-all, end-all of his penalties either.

Opinions will always differ.  My suggestion would be that those unhappy with such sentences should become qualified to serve as judges.

Rams

You don't have to know much about the case. If you did the same things Mr. Manafort did, how long do you think YOU would be spending in prison ? As well as returning ill-gotten money, etc. ?

As for the comparision between "Club Fed" and maximum security - I see the point on segregating the different types of prisoners based on the crime. But Club Fed doesn't need to exist - as in the luxery facilities.

[Jess from VA]

The problem I got with this is that it is born out of the Special Counsel's efforts.

The way the Special Counsel statute is suppose to work is that the Special Counsel is suppose to investigate a crime. It is convened for that purpose.

In the Mueller Special Counsel case they were convened to find crime. There was no initial crime for them to investigate. Just accusations and allegations from political opponents.

The case against Manaford comes out of this and a hyperbolic political environment.
To me, this taints nearly everything.

The information we get through the "Mainstream Media" is demonstrably biased against Trump and anything or anyone connected to him.

The jury found him guilty on a number of counts and were hung on many more.
We do have to have faith in the jury.

But still, had Trump not been elected President would the case against Manaford been pursued?
Were the charges enhanced and brought to bring unbearable leverage on Manaford?
The whole thing is a travesty to me.

Mike I completely agree with your assessment.  

But Kenneth Starr's years' long investigation of the Clintons cannot be ignored.  I have not done extensive research, but think the special counsel statute was then fairly new.  Star started out on Vince Foster's death, and morphed to Whitewater real estate investments of Bill Clinton.  The law conferred broad investigative powers on Starr and the other independent counsels named to investigate the administration, including the right to subpoena nearly anyone who might have information relevant to the particular investigation. Starr would later receive authority to conduct additional investigations, including the firing of White House Travel Office personnel, potential political abuse of confidential FBI files, Madison Guaranty, Rose Law Firm, Paula Jones lawsuit and, most notoriously, possible perjury and obstruction of justice to cover up President Clinton's sexual relationship with Monica Lewinsky.  Wiki

Indeed it is very likely the Democrats have never forgotten it.  

Of course, there are some differences in these two investigations, and in Starr's it seems that in each phase there was certainly enough evidence to proceed further.  But the general tone and nature of both does have a witch-hunt overtone to it.  

I did 25 pretrial criminal felony (one or more) investigations in the Air Force; required in every general court martial per the UCMJ.  It is like a one man grand jury, and really to the accused's benefit, since you go on record, have all the witnesses (cops/OSI/eye witnesses) testify under oath, review all documents or video, all with the accused present and represented by counsel.  The defense rarely makes any presentation of any kind, and the accused never spoke (though he could), and defense counsel could also ask questions.  But this was the best pretrial defense discovery anyone could ever want, with all your cards on the table (and the defense never revealed any of their cards).  Then I did a report, that went to the general court martial convening authority staff judge advocate, who also did a report (independent assessment), and then if the case was solid, referred to the general court martial convening authority to refer to trial.  The essential questions:  1) was there probable cause crime(s) was committed? 2) was there probable cause we had the right guy(s)?

In all 25 of them, my investigation took one day (a couple were long days).  I mean, some could have taken longer if the case was complex and witnesses many.  I did not need subpoena power, but showed up with a letter from a 3-star, made a courtesy call to the base wing commander (who worked for the 3-star) and gave him a copy of the letter, and whatever or whoever I wanted, the wing commander gave me. This pushed things right along.  

Perhaps this independent counsel statute needs looked at for revision or oversight or limitation.  But I doubt the House today would want any changes at all.

[scooperhsd]

The nice thing about military justice is that defendents rarely have to complain about the Law's delay waiting for trials. And justice is usually swift and sure in the military.

[Jess from VA]

As for the comparision between "Club Fed" and maximum security - I see the point on segregating the different types of prisoners based on the crime. But Club Fed doesn't need to exist - as in the luxury facilities.

My first assignment in the USAF was at Maxwell AFB AL, where there is a Fed prison camp. (There is also one at Eglin AFB).  It is the lowest security federal lockup there is, more like a closely supervised open bay dormitory (but there is no luxury to it).  There are specific rules about being sent there, including not having long (left) to serve (I think 2 years or less), not being violent or a risk to others.  

We had a former convicted state governor and a GA probate judge when I was there.  Nealy all the prisoners worked grounds maintenance, physical labor (not a chain gang).  If they wanted to escape, they probably could.  But if they escaped, and were caught, they would get more time, and be sent to a nasty big federal prison (like Atlanta), and never have a chance at Maxwell or Eglin again.  Almost no one ever escaped.

We did have one guy shack up with a lonely officer's wife in married housing, whose husband was always away on travel duty.  He finally overslept once and missed nighttime headcount.  A manhunt was started, and when he was found, he tried to take all the blame, but the wife came forward and explained there was no force involved, all happy consent.  I don't know what happened to him, but his fellow inmates thought he was the King.  

I don't think the wife was charged with anything.... like contributing to the delinquency of a federal convict.  

Who can forget this famous scene in Cool Hand Luke?   (Lucille)


All things considered, that might be worth an extra 6 months.

(Lord, whatever I done, please don't strike me blind in the next few minutes.)  Dragline