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Author Topic: Another disguised gun grab law.  (Read 699 times)
98valk
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South Jersey


« on: April 11, 2019, 03:27:38 AM »

https://reason.com/archives/2019/04/10/the-nra-is-right-about-the-violence-agai

The provision dealing with protective orders is more problematic. Under current law, people subject to such orders may not possess guns, but only when they have had an opportunity to contest claims that they pose a threat.

The House bill would expand the disqualification to ex parte orders, which are issued without a hearing, can last a few weeks, and may be renewable after that. That change should trouble anyone who cares about due process, since it takes away people's constitutional rights based on allegations they have had no chance to rebut.

Another provision of the House bill is even more far-reaching. It would permanently deprive someone of his Second Amendment rights if he has been convicted of misdemeanor stalking, a crime that need not involve violence, threats, or even a victim the offender knows.

In Pennsylvania, for example, someone can be guilty of misdemeanor stalking if he "repeatedly commits acts toward another person," including communications, that "cause substantial emotional distress." Stalking laws in states such as Arizona, Colorado, and New York likewise encompass repeated communications that cause emotional distress.

As NRA spokeswoman Jennifer Baker noted, such stalking could involve "harassing messages" on Facebook or nasty posts on Twitter. This sort of stalking is pretty far afield from "violence against women."

It is doubtful that people convicted of such misdemeanors, especially if they involve remote contact with victims they have never met, have demonstrated violent tendencies that should forever disqualify them from exercising the constitutional right to armed self-defense. But instead of making the case for such a broad exclusion, the bill's backers suggest that questioning it is tantamount to siding with wife beaters and girlfriend murderers.

Before the House vote, Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) declared, "Members have a decision to make: will they protect survivors of stalking & domestic abuse? Or are they willing to allow their convicted stalkers & abusers to have access to firearms?"

Sen. Cory Booker (D-N.J.), a presidential contender, deemed the NRA's criticism "absolutely outrageous." Rep. Debbie Dingell (D-Mich.) insisted, "I am not someone who wants to take people's guns away," although that is what the bill she supports would do.

"I am not paying attention to the rhetoric of the NRA because I can't be distracted," said Rep. Lucy McBath (D-Ga.). "What's most important is putting forth good legislation to save as many lives as we can."

This casual disregard for civil liberties is reminiscent of Donald Trump's recommendation, during a meeting last year with members of Congress, that police should "take the guns first, go through due process second." When it comes to sacrificing constitutional rights in the name of public safety, Democrats see eye to eye with the president.
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1998 Std/Tourer, 2007 DR200SE, 1981 CB900C  10speed
1973 Duster 340 4-speed rare A/C, 2001 F250 4x4 7.3L, 6sp

"Our Constitution was made only for a Moral and Religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the goverment of any other."
John Adams 10/11/1798
Skinhead
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J. A. B. O. A.

Troy, MI


« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2019, 05:42:41 AM »

I personally think the victims of domestic violence should arm themselves, the law cannot protect them from violence, it can only punish the perpetrator after the fact.  The proposed law can however infringe upon 2A rights of all of us.  Especially the "stalking" part.
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Troy, MI
98valk
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South Jersey


« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2019, 06:24:37 AM »

I personally think the victims of domestic violence should arm themselves, the law cannot protect them from violence, it can only punish the perpetrator after the fact.  The proposed law can however infringe upon 2A rights of all of us.  Especially the "stalking" part.

yep, event happened last wk in philly area, ex-husband walks into a wawa with a rifle and kills the woman.  She had a restraining order against him.

there was a case a few yrs ago, don't remember where, but the ex girl friend had a restraining order against crazy ex boyfriend, she knows he is coming to house, calls cops, he shows up kills deputy and then kills her.
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1998 Std/Tourer, 2007 DR200SE, 1981 CB900C  10speed
1973 Duster 340 4-speed rare A/C, 2001 F250 4x4 7.3L, 6sp

"Our Constitution was made only for a Moral and Religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the goverment of any other."
John Adams 10/11/1798
The emperor has no clothes
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*****
Posts: 29945


« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2019, 06:50:04 AM »

I personally think the victims of domestic violence should arm themselves, the law cannot protect them from violence, it can only punish the perpetrator after the fact.  The proposed law can however infringe upon 2A rights of all of us.  Especially the "stalking" part.

yep, event happened last wk in philly area, ex-husband walks into a wawa with a rifle and kills the woman.  She had a restraining order against him.

there was a case a few yrs ago, don't remember where, but the ex girl friend had a restraining order against crazy ex boyfriend, she knows he is coming to house, calls cops, he shows up kills deputy and then kills her.
And these are good examples of why perpetuators of domestic violence shouldn’t have weapons taken from them ?   Shocked
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MAD6Gun
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New Haven IN


« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2019, 07:15:26 AM »

I personally think the victims of domestic violence should arm themselves, the law cannot protect them from violence, it can only punish the perpetrator after the fact.  The proposed law can however infringe upon 2A rights of all of us.  Especially the "stalking" part.

yep, event happened last wk in philly area, ex-husband walks into a wawa with a rifle and kills the woman.  She had a restraining order against him.

there was a case a few yrs ago, don't remember where, but the ex girl friend had a restraining order against crazy ex boyfriend, she knows he is coming to house, calls cops, he shows up kills deputy and then kills her.
And these are good examples of why perpetuators of domestic violence shouldn’t have weapons taken from them ?   Shocked

Let me get this straight.  So you're saying domestic violence preps "should"  be able to keep their guns? Is that right?
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The emperor has no clothes
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« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2019, 07:37:17 AM »

No, that’s not right.
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Willow
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« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2019, 08:59:18 AM »

Actually every chip away from the 2nd amendment is a move toward its elimination.  Nowhere does the second amendment say, "...  the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed except for those who meet the following disqualifications."

The question is not so much whether certain people should or should not have the right to bear arms and participate in the militia of the citizenry.  The Constitution should not be altered by simply passing laws, local or federal, against it but only by legally changing the Constitution.

If one accepts that anyone should be denied the right to bear arms then he is not currently a supported of the second amendment.  If one believes that someone needs an approved permit to own or carry arms he is not currently a supporter of the second amendment.  If one believes that the ownership of fully automatic firearms should be limited he is not a supporter of the second amendment as it currently stands.

I'm not interested in arguing whether withholding firearms or types of firearms from certain individuals is right or wrong.  I'm only stating what the second amendment of the U.S. Constitution says.   
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Serk
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« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2019, 09:08:05 AM »

I like my steaks medium rare...

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MAD6Gun
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Posts: 2637


New Haven IN


« Reply #8 on: April 11, 2019, 09:49:37 AM »

No, that’s not right.

 Then why did you type it? You chastised me for using "then" incorrectly on another thread but here you are making your own blunder. So how does it feel to have your Grammer corrected,huh??
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The emperor has no clothes
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Posts: 29945


« Reply #9 on: April 11, 2019, 10:43:23 AM »

No, that’s not right.

 Then why did you type it? You chastised me for using "then" incorrectly on another thread but here you are making your own blunder. So how does it feel to have your Grammer corrected,huh??
If my response to CA’s post doesn’t make sense to you, no amount of explaining will get you to understand it.
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MAD6Gun
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Posts: 2637


New Haven IN


« Reply #10 on: April 11, 2019, 11:28:12 AM »

No, that’s not right.

 Then why did you type it? You chastised me for using "then" incorrectly on another thread but here you are making your own blunder. So how does it feel to have your Grammer corrected,huh??
If my response to CA’s post doesn’t make sense to you, no amount of explaining will get you to understand it.

 I missed the question mark so I misunderstood your comment. I was wrong...
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98valk
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Posts: 13652


South Jersey


« Reply #11 on: April 11, 2019, 12:13:30 PM »

I personally think the victims of domestic violence should arm themselves, the law cannot protect them from violence, it can only punish the perpetrator after the fact.  The proposed law can however infringe upon 2A rights of all of us.  Especially the "stalking" part.

yep, event happened last wk in philly area, ex-husband walks into a wawa with a rifle and kills the woman.  She had a restraining order against him.

there was a case a few yrs ago, don't remember where, but the ex girl friend had a restraining order against crazy ex boyfriend, she knows he is coming to house, calls cops, he shows up kills deputy and then kills her.
And these are good examples of why perpetuators of domestic violence shouldn’t have weapons taken from them ?   Shocked

really in your world that person needs to be put away. cause that person could use their hands to choke or beat her to death using their hands or a blunt object or a knife or drive over them with their car, ALL of which have happened many, many, many times in the real world, and most times there was a restraining order and 911 was only 5-10 minutes away and get there just in time to put up yellow tape and write a report, which u seem not to be aware of.
the only answer is the Woman NEEDS to BE ARMED with a gun.
it seems u think EVERYBODY should suffer because of one bad apple, like your teachers do to 3rd graders.

My sister had an abusive ex. he was still harassing her in the town she lived in. one day she is sitting at a light in her car when he comes up and starts pounding on her window. she reaches over and puts her 9 mm on her dash, while never looking at him. He never came near her ever again. she was still in the Army at the time, she got out with 20. he was nice to her from then on.
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1998 Std/Tourer, 2007 DR200SE, 1981 CB900C  10speed
1973 Duster 340 4-speed rare A/C, 2001 F250 4x4 7.3L, 6sp

"Our Constitution was made only for a Moral and Religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the goverment of any other."
John Adams 10/11/1798
The emperor has no clothes
Member
*****
Posts: 29945


« Reply #12 on: April 11, 2019, 12:38:58 PM »

No, that’s not right.

 Then why did you type it? You chastised me for using "then" incorrectly on another thread but here you are making your own blunder. So how does it feel to have your Grammer corrected,huh??
If my response to CA’s post doesn’t make sense to you, no amount of explaining will get you to understand it.

 I missed the question mark so I misunderstood your comment. I was wrong...
No problem  cooldude I miss stuff all the time.  cooldude
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Skinhead
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J. A. B. O. A.

Troy, MI


« Reply #13 on: April 11, 2019, 01:29:47 PM »

No problem  cooldude I miss stuff all the time.  cooldude

Again we agree.
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Troy, MI
Willow
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Olathe, KS


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« Reply #14 on: April 11, 2019, 03:04:49 PM »

No problem  cooldude I miss stuff all the time.  cooldude

Again we agree.

 2funny   2funny   2funny

(It appears we do agree upon so much more than we disagree upon.)   Wink
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