Got Crack? Desmog gone wrong

[Kaiser]

After replacing the exhaust gaskets did not get rid of the ticking sound, closer inspection revealed something much more disheartening.  :'(

I found the source of the tick here:





What do you recommend as the best way to fix this?

[Chillerman]

That does not look like a freeze plug you pounded in there.  I would use the quick set JB Weld to fix those cracks in the casting.

[TJ]

JB weld... 

[Thunderbolt]

doesn't look like the 9/16" freeze plug that we normally use.  I usually tap the plug in and it goes in much farther than yours did.  Then I buy a tube of the two part epoxy that comes in a plastic tube and is gray on the outside and has a strip of black inside.  You cut off a section that fits your application, then knead it until it is uniform in color, then fill the void.  J.B weld may work, or a two part liquid epoxy.  Not that much pressure there, just opens to the exhaust.  You could possibly drill and tap it and pull out the old plug and start over on that one cylinder.  Clean it up good if you do remove it, then put in the 9/16" cup plug and fill the top with J.B or epoxy.

[Tropic traveler]

Dave, I've done 5 Valk desmogs & never had that problem. Like Terry said it appears that too large of a block off plug was jammed in there. That plug looks solid. The reason we use cup style freeze plugs is they "give" & kind of self center when tapped down.
The good news is if you can get what's in there back out it looks like a fixable problem. Down in that port it actually necks down to a slightly smaller diameter. Even if that round part of the casting breaks, as long as there is still is enough hole left to stick a proper size cup plug in it can be fixed. The epoxy that Terry talks about can be used to put it back together. I have used JB Weld like "bondo" before. After it cures you can shape & sand it to completely repair the broken casting. I have a real good match silver engine paint to hide the "body work".
JBWeld does not like direct exhaust blowing on it but will stand up very well behind a metal plug. Even if the 9/16 freeze plug will not block the port there may be enough meat in the head to tap it for a pipe plug then do the "body work".
Don't sweat it, we'll figure it out.

BTW, saw another I/S in your color scheme at JP Cycles in Daytona today.
Met some more Valkers from G'ville that knew good 'ol Terry as well!

[fudgie]

I'd pull that plug out, if it comes out easy, and put in a freeze plug. The cast may spring back and when the plug goes down further it my not leak.

[Kaiser]

I appreciate your responses, but am a little ticked off for this reason...

...that "plug" came in a $60 desmog kit from one of our beloved vendors.  Not knowing any better, I just pounded the thing in there.  Fortunately, the other three did not crack, just this one.

Eddie - I shoulda done your nickel trick to begin with and been done with it.

Terry - I'll check into that stuff you mentioned.

You guys up for a wrench party (or more accurately a JB Weld party)? 

[roboto65]

Well sorry for the crack and for sure I would be kinda ticked but I know the vendor in question and he is a standup guy please call him and make him aware of the problem so he knows about it so he can make sure it does not happen again.

[Chillerman]

If you don't like the way JB Weld looks (I don't mind, it's hardly noticable right there) then you can always cover them up.

[Black Dog]

Pretty sure you've got the same 'kit' I do, and I think ya goofed...

The instructions say to tap the plug 'Flush' with the block.  Looking at the picture, it looks as though you have it tapped in so far, that it is resessed about 1/8".  The plugs are tapered to exact specs, and pushing them in that far will give you the result you got.

I know that is not what you wanted to hear, but your situation can be fixed, by cleaning up the areareal well, and gooping some JB Weld in the crack, and over the plug.  May not be as pretty, but you will be back on the road, once it dries.

Black Dog

[Tropic traveler]

Dave, underneath those nickels are both a 9/16 cup plug AND JBWeld. The nickel is JB'ed on just for looks!  
I agree you must have gotten the plug cocked a bit.

[3W-lonerider]

i could be wrong. it's happened before..but looks to me like he put the freeze plugs in upside down..beating those in upside down will mushroom the plug and create the result you see.

[Kaiser]

I take full responsibility for the damage done.  It's not the vendors fault.  I was just expressing frustration at the thought that POSSIBLY the kit contained the wrong parts since the first several responses indicated that it's not the freeze plug commonly used.  I spent $60 for the kit for the convenience of having everything I needed delivered to my door instead of piecing together my own kit for much less $$$.  My time is incredibly valuable to me, and I made the decision to spend more money to save some time.  Anyways - I have made other purchases from the same vendor and am very pleased with the customer service and overall experience.  No vendor bashing intended - just venting on my part.

I'm sure I put the plug in upside-down, or pounded it in too far, or ____ (fill in the blank with one of the other 200 things I did wrong that night while working on my bike).  I'm still a newbie in the Valk world, and fairly unexperienced at wrenching.  But I figured there was no better way to learn both than roll up my sleeves and jump in.  I was right.  I know a lot more about the Fat Lady now then I did before.

Seems like the consensus is to JB Weld the sucker.

What is the proper name for those chrome covers in Chillerman's post?  I want to call them "Rivco Spark Plug Valance", but I don't know if that is correct or not.  Aren't they discontinued?  If not, where do you get them?  Also seems like I read somewhere on here that they have to be modified to fit an I/S with pods.  Any insight?

[Black Dog]

What is the proper name for those chrome covers in Chillerman's post?

Got the right name, just the wrong vendor...  They are made by Kuryakyn 

http://www.kuryakyn.com/Products/1245/Intake-RunnerSpark-Plug-Cover

Black Dog

[Kaiser]

Thanks for that link, Black Dog!  They are cheaper than I thought.

Do you know if they have to be "tweaked" to fit an I/S with pods, or are they just bolt on?

[Black Dog]

At one time, they made those for the I/S.  That being said, the ones for the Standard/Tour do need to be modified.  I know other guys have done it...  Maybe they will chime in.

Black Dog

[ptgb]

Do you know if they have to be "tweaked" to fit an I/S with pods, or are they just bolt on?

Actually they DO NOT need modified to fit the I/S. I have a Standard/Tourer set on mine went on just fine. The only difference you will see is it takes just a bit more effort to put your pods back on after removing them.

[Kaiser]

Excellent.  Just ordered a set from the link.

Time to pick up some JB Weld, wait for the new bling to arrive, and get her back better than before.

(just a joke) Perhaps I should go ahead and post in advance a thread about how to fix pods. 

Thanks again.

[Chillerman]

Excellent.  Just ordered a set from the link.

Time to pick up some JB Weld, wait for the new bling to arrive, and get her back better than before.

(just a joke) Perhaps I should go ahead and post in advance a thread about how to fix pods. 

Thanks again.

They can be a pain to install even on a standard.  I found if you pull off all of the spark plug boots and run the cables through the valance first it makes it easier.  Then you can rotate the valance down and carefully make sure the boots are fully on the plugs before bolting it down.  If you start a thread about your bike not running right after install, we will know what it is!   

[3W-lonerider]

I take full responsibility for the damage done.  It's not the vendors fault.  I was just expressing frustration at the thought that POSSIBLY the kit contained the wrong parts since the first several responses indicated that it's not the freeze plug commonly used.  I spent $60 for the kit for the convenience of having everything I needed delivered to my door instead of piecing together my own kit for much less $$$.  My time is incredibly valuable to me, and I made the decision to spend more money to save some time.  Anyways - I have made other purchases from the same vendor and am very pleased with the customer service and overall experience.  No vendor bashing intended - just venting on my part.

I'm sure I put the plug in upside-down, or pounded it in too far, or ____ (fill in the blank with one of the other 200 things I did wrong that night while working on my bike).  I'm still a newbie in the Valk world, and fairly unexperienced at wrenching.  But I figured there was no better way to learn both than roll up my sleeves and jump in.  I was right.  I know a lot more about the Fat Lady now then I did before.

Seems like the consensus is to JB Weld the sucker.

What is the proper name for those chrome covers in Chillerman's post?  I want to call them "Rivco Spark Plug Valance", but I don't know if that is correct or not.  Aren't they discontinued?  If not, where do you get them?  Also seems like I read somewhere on here that they have to be modified to fit an I/S with pods.  Any insight?

ya know..i've been turning wrenches for around 35 years now..it would take up way too much bandwidth and to much of my time typing about all the screw ups i done while i was learning my trade on my own..countless amount of times i would screw it up so bad that it would cost me triple to get it fixed properly..but we all need to learn somewhere. don't sweat the small stuff and don't pet the sweaty stuff.

[MarkT]

+1 on what Mase said about just modifying the metal runners already there.  That's what I did - basically just cut each of them off - in different places, as needed - and plug them with an appropriate piece of threaded stock, glued in place with JB Weld.  Of course I already have the Kuryakyn Valence covers so the ugly cut-off pieces are hidden.  Anyway, cost me nothing to desmog, if you figure  I already have plenty of JB Weld and theaded stock on hand.

[Chattanooga Mark]

Quote from: Kaiser on January 31, 2011, 09:09:07 AM
Do you know if they have to be "tweaked" to fit an I/S with pods, or are they just bolt on?


Actually they DO NOT need modified to fit the I/S. I have a Standard/Tourer set on mine went on just fine. The only difference you will see is it takes just a bit more effort to put your pods back on after removing them.
 
 
 


This is great news for me. I have the Kuryakyn covers and was anticipating having to cut them up to fit my Interstate. Very glad to read they'll fit with the pods and without modification. I'll install them the way Chillerman suggests and go from there.

Thank You,

Mark

[Chiefy]

ya know..i've been turning wrenches for around 35 years now..it would take up way too much bandwidth and to much of my time typing about all the screw ups i done while i was learning my trade on my own..countless amount of times i would screw it up so bad that it would cost me triple to get it fixed properly..but we all need to learn somewhere. don't sweat the small stuff and don't pet the sweaty stuff.

AMEN   One of the reasons I think it over 3-4-5 times before I decide to work on engines is because I've had too many "Clark Griswold" moments.

[Kaiser]

Ask the wrong question, and you get the wrong answer.

I asked if the Kury covers fit an I/S with pods.  The answer that they do not need to be modified to fit an I/S with pods is correct.

What I SHOULD have asked is "do they fit an I/S with fog lights?"  This completely different question gives a completely different answer.

Unless I'm missing something, the covers have to be modified to fit an I/S with fog lights.  There is not enough clearance between the bottom fog light mounting bracket for the cover to fit without modification.

Anyways, a little redneck engineering got 'em on.  It nicely covers up my JB Weld job (which looked pretty dang good if I do say so myself).  And most importantly, no more annoying tick-tick-tick!

Thanks to all for the input.

[hubcapsc]

JB Weld 24.  The stock Honda smog stuff is chrome, is already on your bike and can be "tuned" by a hacksaw and some JB Weld.

Just hack off the tubes, fill with 24 hour JB Weld and replace.  The chrome piece you had before is .... still there. 

I did the same thing four years ago... I got some ticking later, and found that the little "holder-downers" on the JBweld-filled chrome
plugs needed to be tweeked/bent-down a little to keep the plugs held in real tight...

-Mike

[alph]

Now, I know the significance of the nickel, nickel trick and all.....  But, I personally like old coins, and I’d go to a coin shop and buy an old buffalo nickel!!  That would look cool!!

[HotRod]

I reused the shinny chrome caps that came off,I just jb welded them shut after i cut the tube part off,looks great,and more chrome on the bike.

[alph]

i would like to know, have you noticed any bennifits to doing a desmog??  i've been contemplating it, this winter has been SOOOOO F-ING LONG i'm running out of things to overhaul on my bike......  thank god i built a heated shed when we bought this house, it use to be my wood work shop, but "Val" likes it better.....

[Kaiser]

Alph - nope, none whatsoever.  In fact, if I had to do it all over again, I definitely would NOT have done the desmog.

I too was bored and had time to tinker, and after reading all the posts on this board about what a great idea it was - I decided to go for it.  From a knowledge perspective, I'm glad I did it.  But from a breaking-something-that-was-working-fine perspective - I wish I wouldn't have touched it.  (Immediately after doing the Pingel/Dan Marc/desmog, I started a thread called "If it ain't broke, fix it til it is").

From what I've read, the only real reason why you would "need" to do a desmog is if you have a vacuum leak that you can't track down.  Granted, I could be wrong.

IMHO, it seems like a very small percentage of VRCC-ers experience an issue with their bike, come up with a solution, and then everybody else buys into that solution without ever experiencing the problem themselves.  Examples: Pingel (which I've done without having any petcock problems), Dan Marc (which I've done without ever experiencing any issues), and desmog (obvious).  Nobody wants to experience hydrolock, but how many on here actually have?  Several unlikely things have to occur at exactly the same time in order for a hydrolock to occur.  Yet, how many of us (myself included) have gone with a Pingel and/or a Dan Marc to avoid hydrolock?

I'm not against tinkering, or doing preventative measures to help avoid expensive repairs.  However, I think Honda did a pretty dang good job with these bikes, and I think that there are a lot of people out there like myself that have done unnecessary things to their Valks after reading a few horror stories here.

A quote from Mike applies here.  He was answering the question of "What is a Pingel?".  To paraphrase, his response was "a petcock that comes already broken from the factory."  I thought that was clever and honest.  (Didn't stop me from going with one, though.)

Also, it *seems* as though a majority of Ricky-D's posts boil down to "don't jack with your bike if it ain't broke."  Pretty good advice that I've had to learn the hard way.

And lastly (seriously, I'm dismounting from my soapbox as I type this), I learned there is a crap ton more steps involved in even the most basic of maintenance items if you've got an I/S.  All those extras are nice, and I sure do like mine, but dang you gotta remove a bunch of stuff to even get to what you wanted to work on.

It's been fun learning more about my bike by doing these unnecessary things.  And I do sleep a little better at night knowing that it is now darn-near impossible for me to get hydrolock.  But I'd do things differently if I had the chance.

[hubcapsc]

A quote from Mike applies here.  He was answering the question of "What is a Pingel?".  To paraphrase, his response was "a petcock that comes already broken from the factory."  I thought that was clever and honest.  (Didn't stop me from going with one, though.)

Hee hee...

Also, it *seems* as though a majority of Ricky-D's posts boil down to "don't jack with your bike if it ain't broke."  Pretty good advice that I've had to learn the hard way.

I agree with him too. Even though I wish I got better gas mileage, I'll wait to mess with my carburetors until after my bike quits starting and running good.

As far as de-smogging goes, I de-smogged. Later, I helped Stanley Steamer replace all his vacuum lines. I thought replacing vacuum lines was lots
easier and quicker. Seeing the big pile of removed smog parts was gratifying, though  .

And lastly (seriously, I'm dismounting from my soapbox as I type this), I learned there is a crap ton more steps involved in even the most basic of maintenance items if you've got an I/S.  All those extras are nice, and I sure do like mine, but dang you gotta remove a bunch of stuff to even get to what you wanted to work on.

Especially if you've got a bunch of extra chrome doodads like Stanley does!

I like to remove my rear fender section when I change my tires, there's nothing to it and it makes the rest of the job easy for me. I don't guess I'd
feel that way about it if I had an Interstate...

-Mike

[HotRod]

Alph - nope, none whatsoever.  In fact, if I had to do it all over again, I definitely would NOT have done the desmog.

I too was bored and had time to tinker, and after reading all the posts on this board about what a great idea it was - I decided to go for it.  From a knowledge perspective, I'm glad I did it.  But from a breaking-something-that-was-working-fine perspective - I wish I wouldn't have touched it.  (Immediately after doing the Pingel/Dan Marc/desmog, I started a thread called "If it ain't broke, fix it til it is").

From what I've read, the only real reason why you would "need" to do a desmog is if you have a vacuum leak that you can't track down.  Granted, I could be wrong.

IMHO, it seems like a very small percentage of VRCC-ers experience an issue with their bike, come up with a solution, and then everybody else buys into that solution without ever experiencing the problem themselves.  Examples: Pingel (which I've done without having any petcock problems), Dan Marc (which I've done without ever experiencing any issues), and desmog (obvious).  Nobody wants to experience hydrolock, but how many on here actually have?  Several unlikely things have to occur at exactly the same time in order for a hydrolock to occur.  Yet, how many of us (myself included) have gone with a Pingel and/or a Dan Marc to avoid hydrolock?

I'm not against tinkering, or doing preventative measures to help avoid expensive repairs.  However, I think Honda did a pretty dang good job with these bikes, and I think that there are a lot of people out there like myself that have done unnecessary things to their Valks after reading a few horror stories here.

A quote from Mike applies here.  He was answering the question of "What is a Pingel?".  To paraphrase, his response was "a petcock that comes already broken from the factory."  I thought that was clever and honest.  (Didn't stop me from going with one, though.)

Also, it *seems* as though a majority of Ricky-D's posts boil down to "don't jack with your bike if it ain't broke."  Pretty good advice that I've had to learn the hard way.

And lastly (seriously, I'm dismounting from my soapbox as I type this), I learned there is a crap ton more steps involved in even the most basic of maintenance items if you've got an I/S.  All those extras are nice, and I sure do like mine, but dang you gotta remove a bunch of stuff to even get to what you wanted to work on.

It's been fun learning more about my bike by doing these unnecessary things.  And I do sleep a little better at night knowing that it is now darn-near impossible for me to get hydrolock.  But I'd do things differently if I had the chance.

+1

[Chiefy]

i would like to know, have you noticed any bennifits to doing a desmog??  i've been contemplating it, this winter has been SOOOOO F-ING LONG i'm running out of things to overhaul on my bike......  thank god i built a heated shed when we bought this house, it use to be my wood work shop, but "Val" likes it better.....

I just did mine over Christmas.  I used the "Shiny" desmog kit.  I think there is ever so slightly an improvement in performance.  Probably not enough to justify the work.  I had also replaced the petcock vacuum line, intake O-rings, and set the pilots, so any of those things could have created the minor improvement.   However, my bike is a 98, and most of the vacuum lines were looking grim.  I had seen the kit installed on Ricomans bike and it looked nice.  So I changed mine out mostly because I thought vacuum leaks were probably in the cards for me.

[olddog1946]

I have read many posts about doing a de-smog but have not seen any posts as to why you would do one..will you still be able to pass emissions tests, is there an improvement in mileage or performance..or are you just trying to do away with vacuum lines to prevent future leaks??

Although we don't have emission tests here in Moses Lake, the surrounding cities do..and nothing I own is so precious that I may not be willing  to sell it sometime in the future..so I prefer to leave emissions, etc. as they were designed and deal with problems that occur when they actually do..
Just my thoughts

[Tropic traveler]

Just trying to do away with potential vacuum leaks was my biggest reason.

The pile of parts removed from a de-smog.


Top of engine after removal.


Much simpler vacuum hose mess now. No performance increase just peace of mind for me. 

[fudgie]

It helps if you get some popping with decel. I had a slight popping and desmogged. All is better. Plus I added the audiovox CC which used the intake nipples.

As far as the pingel/ etc for preventative maintanance, I'd reather be proactive then reactive. Was my oem bad? Dont know. I never have to worry about it tho. Rather spend the $90 now once then to dick with the oem 2 or 3 times.

I look at it as a smoke detector. Do you have one now or do you wait till your house catches fire? 

[RP#62]

Mine had repeatedly passed AZ emissions desmogged.
-RP

[olddog1946]

thanks for the replies..I kinda liked fudgie's smoke detector analogy...and I have popping exhaust with the cobra pipes but have been considering another exhaust system as I don't like the noise these pipes generate on the road (even with muffler wrap on the baffles)..and who wouldn't like a cleaner look without all those pieces on the motor.  .......    at any rate, all food for thought..

[Spirited-6]

"If it ain't broke, fix it til it is").

  

Some times the "story of my Life"