He we go again, Garner case in NYC

[Patrick]

The Grand Jury did not indict the white officers that tried to detain Garner who was supposedly selling illegal cigarettes. He died due to a choke hold.
Ultra liberal mayor of NYC will not attend the NYC Christmas tree lighting [ tradition] in order to hold a press conference.
Our president is now having his own press conference.

[BF]

Where they acting "stupidly"?

[Rams]

Haven't seen any evidence, wasn't on the Grand Jury.   Have only seen what our very liberal media wants us to see and I don't trust them.   Therefore, I have to keep my trap shut on this.

[Chrisj CMA]

Haven't seen any evidence, wasn't on the Grand Jury.   Have only seen what our very liberal media wants us to see and I don't trust them.   Therefore, I have to keep my trap shut on this.

I see you are way smarter than our "president"

[specialdose]

                           Here we go with the bottom line again. If neither had resisted arrest, they , Garner and Brown, would
                       in all probability be breathing today. IMHO I don't think either of those LEO's went to work with thoughts of killing
                       anyone of any race. My dad was a cop. Tough job. I think they are just like everyone else. They just want
                       to go home to their family at the end of the shift.

[Hoser]

JMHO, a choke  hold should be a last resort,if used at all. It is very deadly, and easy to kill with, both accidently and intentually.  I do not think it was warranted in this case, both because of the petty nature of the offense, and the advantage in numbers of the police.  A mans life is worth more than a cigarette. That being said, it does not warrant the uprising and riot that may follow.  Hoser   

[The emperor has no clothes]

JMHO, a choke  hold should be a last resort,if used at all. It is very deadly, and easy to kill with, both accidently and intentually.  I do not think it was warranted in this case, both because of the petty nature of the offense, and the advantage in numbers of the police.  A mans life is worth more than a cigarette. That being said, it does not warrant the uprising and riot that may follow.  Hoser   

I would agree.

[PAVALKER]

JMHO, a choke  hold should be a last resort,if used at all. It is very deadly, and easy to kill with, both accidently and intentually.  I do not think it was warranted in this case, both because of the petty nature of the offense, and the advantage in numbers of the police.  A mans life is worth more than a cigarette. That being said, it does not warrant the uprising and riot that may follow.  Hoser   

I would agree.

The choke hold was outlawed for those police years ago...and is very dangerous.  And, based on what I have seen in the video....it was excessive force at a minimum considering the so called crime. Even the autopsy points to the cause of death.   Garner was not swinging or fighting or even trying to take any officers gun.... And then an officer jumped on his back to choke hold him.....who wouldn't try to fight for air at that point...it's a natural instinct.  Why not taze to subdue him. Isn't taser the accepted means over choke hold and then ganged on by 5 guys?  In this case, the cops were wrong IMO and there is video proof.   However, the news referring to unarmed man in Garners case is overkill....as the officers did not use any weapons or arms in that incident....and the media is tweaking it up needlessly.

The evidence in Browns case pointed to justified shooting I believe.....but video would have been nice there.

And what about the poor kid in Ohio that got shot by a cop because he was wielding a toy gun???  Oh so wrong in that case as well....IMO.  When the officers sped on the scene it had to be yelling and screaming and the kid probably didn't comprehend what they were saying, the way they yell and act out to startle and surprise,  let alone what was going on. 

[Momz]

Must be time to burn down Staten Island!!!

[Patrick]

The video shows Garner resisting arrest. This man is huge and has 31 arrests. The video appears to show excessive force was used and the autopsy is ruled a homicide. Yet, the Grand Jury failed to indict and there were 23 [?] persons on it.
Bottom line to me is if Garner and Brown ha complied they would be breathing.

[PAVALKER]

The video shows Garner resisting arrest. This man is huge and has 31 arrests. The video appears to show excessive force was used and the autopsy is ruled a homicide. Yet, the Grand Jury failed to indict and there were 23 [?] persons on it.
Bottom line to me is if Garner and Brown ha complied they would be breathing.

As for Garner, Excessive force, unlawful or illegal force and that force caused the mans death per the autopsy makes it an unlawful death regardless.  Look at the video a few times, regardless of his past it still don't look justified IMO.  Officer performing choke hold is responsible and should be held accountable.

As for Brown, there is no actual video of the incident, but his preceding video, witness statements corroborating the officers and the forensic evidence tell the story that was used for the Grand Jury decision.  

The 12yo kid in Ohio with a toy gun getting shot and killed by police the way it went down was IMO unjustified and the officer should be held accountable.       http://www.vox.com/2014/11/24/7275297/tamir-rice-police-shooting

And to top it off...Ohio is an open carry state.    http://www.opencarry.org/?page_id=286

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

JMHO, a choke  hold should be a last resort,if used at all. It is very deadly, and easy to kill with, both accidently and intentually.  I do not think it was warranted in this case, both because of the petty nature of the offense, and the advantage in numbers of the police.  A mans life is worth more than a cigarette. That being said, it does not warrant the uprising and riot that may follow.  Hoser   

Agree

[PAVALKER]

JMHO, a choke  hold should be a last resort,if used at all. It is very deadly, and easy to kill with, both accidently and intentually.  I do not think it was warranted in this case, both because of the petty nature of the offense, and the advantage in numbers of the police.  A mans life is worth more than a cigarette. That being said, it does not warrant the uprising and riot that may follow.  Hoser   

Agree

Can almost agree with ya on this Hoser....but if the officer responsible isn't held accountable for his wrong doing and unwarranted deadly actions ...... It just goes to a pattern of Police Misconduct being accepted as the norm by the boys in blue and the legal system.  At that point, what recourse do the offended  class have?   There are just too many publicized cases of this Blue on Black accidental deaths....that something has to be done either way.

[Patrick]

The video shows Garner resisting arrest. This man is huge and has 31 arrests. The video appears to show excessive force was used and the autopsy is ruled a homicide. Yet, the Grand Jury failed to indict and there were 23 [?] persons on it.
Bottom line to me is if Garner and Brown ha complied they would be breathing.

As for Garner, Excessive force, unlawful or illegal force and that force caused the mans death per the autopsy makes it an unlawful death regardless.  Look at the video a few times, regardless of his past it still don't look justified IMO.  Officer performing choke hold is responsible and should be held accountable.


As for Brown, there is no actual video of the incident, but his preceding video, witness statements corroborating the officers and the forensic evidence tell the story that was used for the Grand Jury decision.  

The 12yo kid in Ohio with a toy gun getting shot and killed by police the way it went down was IMO unjustified and the officer should be held accountable.       http://www.vox.com/2014/11/24/7275297/tamir-rice-police-shooting

And to top it off...Ohio is an open carry state.    http://www.opencarry.org/?page_id=286

I think my post stated I thought from the video that excessive force had been used, especially considering what the charges would have been for. I mean, who cares about a few untaxed cigs.
But, had Garner not resisted he would probably still be alive.

[BF]

The guy had been arrested before...OVER THIRTY TIMES.  

This man knew, more than most people WHAT NOT TO DO when being confronted by the police.  

He was selling cigarettes.  He himself escalated the situation from a probable summons to an arrest situation to a resisting arrest situation.

If you don't want the police jumping you, then be polite, say yes sir, no sir and fight your battle in court...not on the street.  

He didn't get into a confrontation with the police because he is black....he got into a confrontation with the police because he was doing something illegal. 

How Not To Get Your Ass Kicked, Chris Rock Style	powered by Aeva

[old2soon]

To my untrained eye Garner appeared to me that the L E Os were a bit over zealous in getting him cuffed-especially the guy on his back with his arm around his neck. If he had been arrested-Garner-31 times prior he knew the drill. In either case-Brown or Garner-ZERO cause to destroy ANYTHING cause you or someone else feels slighted. How many millions of dollars of damage was done in Ferguson and how many millions of dollars of damage will be done in N Y C and elsewhere?? And all that damage and rioting and marching WILL NOT bring back either man. Maybe body cameras are the way to go. AND if some footage comes up missing in a confrontation the missing footage L E Os need to be looked at under a very powerful microscope. And maybe with PROOF of a choke hold being used the L E O using the hold needs to be fired with no benefits. I had a Shore Patrol in the P I that had hold of my thumb and he put me on my knees JUST holding my thumb. RIDE SAFE.

[Jess from VA]

Like in the Rodney King case, you just cannot have a pile of blue kneeling over an all or mostly subdued man (black or otherwise) for any length of time.  Subdue him quickly, but don't kill (or severely injure) him, accidentally or otherwise.  If you can't do that, just let him go (unless he is an escaping murderer, then kill him quickly and efficiently, not in a multiple minute scrum which always manages to be on video).

Tasers work, so does ether.  

[0leman]

I agree the LEO putting on the choke hold should the Disciplined. Where were the tazer?  Why was he resisting?

The12 year old  kid, who was shot, had been pointing the weapon at folks in and around a play ground for a period of time before the LEO's came.  that is why the LEO's showed up, a call from these folks.  They didn't know that it was a airsoft pistol.  The orange barrel cover had been removed.   the kid drew it and started to point it at them.  the LEO reacted. 

My two oldest grandsons have airsoft guns.  The pistols look like real auto's.  That's why the folks who manufactured them put the orange barrel cover on them.  Why was this kid out there with the gun pointing it at folks, why had he removed the cover?   Where were his folks?

[PAVALKER]

I agree the LEO putting on the choke hold should the Disciplined. Where were the tazer?  Why was he resisting?

The12 year old  kid, who was shot, had been pointing the weapon at folks in and around a play ground for a period of time before the LEO's came.  that is why the LEO's showed up, a call from these folks.  They didn't know that it was a airsoft pistol.  The orange barrel cover had been removed.   the kid drew it and started to point it at them.  the LEO reacted. 

My two oldest grandsons have airsoft guns.  The pistols look like real auto's.  That's why the folks who manufactured them put the orange barrel cover on them.  Why was this kid out there with the gun pointing it at folks, why had he removed the cover?   Where were his folks?

The 12yo kid was playing with a toy gun as most do, in a public park or play ground.  Would you rather him go down town and play in the street?  It was even reported to 911 as probably a toy but the caller wasn't sure.  The officer didn't even give the kid an opportunity to hear or comprehend what he was yelling or screaming, and I wish the police cam showed video/recorded audio.  The kid was left without medical attention for 4 mins until other officers arrived.  Why couldn't those that killed or shot him render medical attention as they were trained?  Just because a kid has a gun, toy at that, in an open carry state doesn't justify the cops speeding and skidding to a stop and shooting a person with a gun.  They don't want us to have guns now, but let's not let them kill us because we do for gods sake.  I'm permitted to have a gun and so is a cop, so do we each have the authority to shoot each other because we have those guns?  At this rate, we might as well go, back to the days of the Wild West and everyone carry to defend yourself, and stop paying all those over militarized police to kill us.

[G-Man]

Don't Ride With A Mad Woman ! ! ! ! ! !

                           

[Patrick]

Its just been reported that Garner was not given a 'choke hold'. It was a 'textbook' 'seatbelt maneuver'.

Also, Garner was speaking during that and when stuck in the ambulance. Speaking is breathing. He died of a heart attack during the trip to the hospital.

Maybe excessive force was used over just a few untaxed cigs, but, he should have complied and then filed a harassment suit. That would have been more the American way, sue.

[PAVALKER]

Its just been reported that Garner was not given a 'choke hold'. It was a 'textbook' 'seatbelt maneuver'.

Also, Garner was speaking during that and when stuck in the ambulance. Speaking is breathing. He died of a heart attack during the trip to the hospital.

Maybe excessive force was used over just a few untaxed cigs, but, he should have complied and then filed a harassment suit. That would have been more the American way, sue.

Show a link to that report...... The autopsy results are the autopsy results ya know.

[specialdose]

                        seatbelt  maneuver link    http://www.silive.com/news/index.ssf/2014/12/pba_dispells_rumors_of_cop_ral.html

[Patrick]

Its just been reported that Garner was not given a 'choke hold'. It was a 'textbook' 'seatbelt maneuver'.

Also, Garner was speaking during that and when stuck in the ambulance. Speaking is breathing. He died of a heart attack during the trip to the hospital.

Maybe excessive force was used over just a few untaxed cigs, but, he should have complied and then filed a harassment suit. That would have been more the American way, sue.

Show a link to that report...... The autopsy results are the autopsy results ya know.

You'll remember that one autopsy report from Ferguson stated that Brown was shot in the back.

[PAVALKER]

That ferguson report doesn't apply to Garner  case.   And if you look at the video...even a blind man can see that was a choke hold and not a seatbelt maneuver.

Watch this video to see how they responded on him after he was down and possibly already dead....IMO.  Look at the first aid the highly trained killers, Errr I mean officers provided til EMS arrived.  If he was breathing  it must has been thru his ass cause my frail 82yo mother has more breathing movement than that guy did after he was wrestled to the ground and choked... Clearly a Choked.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IYSnp1UGVGc

[Patrick]

That ferguson report doesn't apply to Garner  case.   And if you look at the video...even a blind man can see that was a choke hold and not a seatbelt maneuver.

Watch this video to see how they responded on him after he was down and possibly already dead....IMO.  Look at the first aid the highly trained killers, Errr I mean officers provided til EMS arrived.  If he was breathing  it must has been thru his ass cause my frail 82yo mother has more breathing movement than that guy did after he was wrestled to the ground and choked... Clearly a Choked.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IYSnp1UGVGc

Geeez, I've seen the video, the whole video not the snipits. The whole world has.
And I'll repeat. As I've said, first and foremost, whether right or wrong, He should have complied
Second, the police overreacted considering the circumstance of a few untaxed cigs.
If you disagree, fine.
You made the mention of autopsies being autopsies, I showed that they aren't. Examiners can disagree as they did in Ferguson. Again, if you disagree, fine.

[big d]

The police were called by the shop keepers. They had to respond. Also cuomo initiated a task force to crack down  on illegal cigarette sales in the city, that is why they had to respond. The police had to arrest him knowing it was a lousy bust.
It was when garner was told he was going to be arrested that he said (I repeat) he said no he wasn't.  That is resisting arrest. He then started moving his arms around to keep the officers away. That is why the seatbelt move was used to take him down. By the way, a choke hold is not illegal but only against policy.
Garner had bad asthma along with a heart condition.
Please explain how the police are supposed to do their job. I know just let him go, after all it's a non violent crime right?
If garner had not fought the police and allowed himself to be arrested he would be alive. Using a taser or tear gas would have most likely had the same effect.

[Patrick]

The police were called by the shop keepers. They had to respond. Also cuomo initiated a task force to crack down  on illegal cigarette sales in the city, that is why they had to respond. The police had to arrest him knowing it was a lousy bust.
It was when garner was told he was going to be arrested that he said (I repeat) he said no he wasn't.  That is resisting arrest. He then started moving his arms around to keep the officers away. That is why the seatbelt move was used to take him down. By the way, a choke hold is not illegal but only against policy.
Garner had bad asthma along with a heart condition.
Please explain how the police are supposed to do their job. I know just let him go, after all it's a non violent crime right?
If garner had not fought the police and allowed himself to be arrested he would be alive. Using a taser or tear gas would have most likely had the same effect.

More info that the Grand Jury undoubtedly heard which most of the public hasn't.

[PAVALKER]

That ferguson report doesn't apply to Garner  case.   And if you look at the video...even a blind man can see that was a choke hold and not a seatbelt maneuver.

Watch this video to see how they responded on him after he was down and possibly already dead....IMO.  Look at the first aid the highly trained killers, Errr I mean officers provided til EMS arrived.  If he was breathing  it must has been thru his ass cause my frail 82yo mother has more breathing movement than that guy did after he was wrestled to the ground and choked... Clearly a Choked.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IYSnp1UGVGc

Geeez, I've seen the video, the whole video not the snipits. The whole world has.
And I'll repeat. As I've said, first and foremost, whether right or wrong, He should have complied
Second, the police overreacted considering the circumstance of a few untaxed cigs.
If you disagree, fine.
You made the mention of autopsies being autopsies, I showed that they aren't. Examiners can disagree as they did in Ferguson. Again, if you disagree, fine.

Ok, agree, admittedly he should have complied, but he was no way  violent or combative from what I could tell and it could have very well been handled differently, even with a taser.    You agree the cops over reacted, but do you agree it was a choke hold and not that laughable seatbelt claim?  I didn't see any arms under his pit area...that was a strong choke hold that the officer had on him.

Yes I did say autopsies are autopsies,  but that so called Ferguson Autopsy in dispute was done by someone that wasn't certified or something and discredited that... Right?  The one that said he was shot in the back was BS.  This Garner case autopsy confirmed what was  clearly visible in the video from what I gather. 

The police were called by the shop keepers. They had to respond. Also cuomo initiated a task force to crack down  on illegal cigarette sales in the city, that is why they had to respond. The police had to arrest him knowing it was a lousy bust.
It was when garner was told he was going to be arrested that he said (I repeat) he said no he wasn't.  That is resisting arrest. He then started moving his arms around to keep the officers away. That is why the seatbelt move was used to take him down. By the way, a choke hold is not illegal but only against policy.
Garner had bad asthma along with a heart condition.
Please explain how the police are supposed to do their job. I know just let him go, after all it's a non violent crime right?
If garner had not fought the police and allowed himself to be arrested he would be alive. Using a taser or tear gas would have most likely had the same effect.

Illegal or against policy... Flip or flop.  If I were to place a choke hold on a cop is it illegal or against policy?  Regardless of Garners health conditions, it should not have been done as it was against policy and did ultimately result in his death....and I do believe he was dead before he was placed on the gurney.....there was no movement in his body or chest activity for 5 mins or better while he lay there motionless surrounded by trained cops....none of which offered any assistance to his lifeless body. Even tho he was cuffed and restrained.  If he was ok and breathing as the cop indicated, why not just load him in the back of his cruiser and take him to the station to book him?

You asked how police are supposed to do their job.....maybe within the law and policy and without irresponsible actions that result in death.  Frankly I don't care if the alleged perp was black, white, brown or green.....he didn't deserve that.  We don't know if tasers or tear gas would have had the same effect or end result, because those were not used, but those very well may have been the approved method to subdue him...whereas the choke hold was not.  The cop responsible for the against policy choke hold is ultimately responsible because it was against policy and the man died, and he should be held accountable.  Had he used an approved method consistent with policy, it would have more reasonable or acceptable because it was within policy guidelines.  It's when you go outside or against policy and something bad happens that you are ultimately responsible, should be held accountable because you deviated from law/policy/guidelines. 

[czuch]

Cigarettes kill.
Glorify the criminal, reduce trust in the police. Coup moving forward.
Already its a shame when you feel unprotected when you see a cop car.
When trouble looms, call a gentle giant or a loosie peddler.

[PAVALKER]

Cigarettes kill.
Glorify the criminal, reduce trust in the police. Coup moving forward.
Already its a shame when you feel unprotected when you see a cop car.
When trouble looms, call a gentle giant or a loosie peddler.

Yea yea.... They continue to build their arsenal with nice toys like this.... Which are not available to your or I.... But I bet a few will walk outside the line of accountability and end up missing in action, and no one will be held accountable.

http://www.everydaynodaysoff.com/2010/03/21/glock-18-yes-its-affordable-no-you-cant-personally-have-one/

I believe Cops for the most part consider themselves above the law and something special deserving of special considerations.  However, they walk a thin line much closer to the criminal than most, and are probably more susceptible to slip over the  line and become a criminal very quickly.  I have some friends that are local and state PoPo, and in my relationship or dealings with them, that is evident.  They will back up another's lie for the brotherhood, even tho they know it's wrong (officer DUI killing bikers is but one example).   They are responsible for their actions, and those of their brothers in blue, but rarely held accountable.  We don't have as much influence on the perception and reputation of the PoPo or legal system, but they do.  If they don't police themselves and weed out the bad apples in the basket.... It gets pretty rotten and they all assume responsibility for the reputation of their basket, and it's growing everyday....justified or not.

I suspect the Grand Jury in this case, was presented the information the DA wanted in the manner he wanted presented to help bring it to the outcome he wanted.  The DA needs the support of the PoPo to get convictions and of course their back needs scratched as well to keep them happy.  I understand it..... But I don't like it, it's corrupt....as like politics. 

Law enforcement is supposed to be just that, but just this week I have seen many so called officers of the law, ignore enforcing the law, and even breaking the law. 

[musclehead]

Must be time to burn down Staten Island!!!

well, ok but just Staten Island! 

[Patrick]

That ferguson report doesn't apply to Garner  case.   And if you look at the video...even a blind man can see that was a choke hold and not a seatbelt maneuver.

Watch this video to see how they responded on him after he was down and possibly already dead....IMO.  Look at the first aid the highly trained killers, Errr I mean officers provided til EMS arrived.  If he was breathing  it must has been thru his ass cause my frail 82yo mother has more breathing movement than that guy did after he was wrestled to the ground and choked... Clearly a Choked.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IYSnp1UGVGc

Geeez, I've seen the video, the whole video not the snipits. The whole world has.
And I'll repeat. As I've said, first and foremost, whether right or wrong, He should have complied
Second, the police overreacted considering the circumstance of a few untaxed cigs.
If you disagree, fine.
You made the mention of autopsies being autopsies, I showed that they aren't. Examiners can disagree as they did in Ferguson. Again, if you disagree, fine.

Ok, agree, admittedly he should have complied, but he was no way  violent or combative from what I could tell and it could have very well been handled differently, even with a taser.    You agree the cops over reacted, but do you agree it was a choke hold and not that laughable seatbelt claim?  I didn't see any arms under his pit area...that was a strong choke hold that the officer had on him.

Yes I did say autopsies are autopsies,  but that so called Ferguson Autopsy in dispute was done by someone that wasn't certified or something and discredited that... Right?  The one that said he was shot in the back was BS.  This Garner case autopsy confirmed what was  clearly visible in the video from what I gather. 

The police were called by the shop keepers. They had to respond. Also cuomo initiated a task force to crack down  on illegal cigarette sales in the city, that is why they had to respond. The police had to arrest him knowing it was a lousy bust.
It was when garner was told he was going to be arrested that he said (I repeat) he said no he wasn't.  That is resisting arrest. He then started moving his arms around to keep the officers away. That is why the seatbelt move was used to take him down. By the way, a choke hold is not illegal but only against policy.
Garner had bad asthma along with a heart condition.
Please explain how the police are supposed to do their job. I know just let him go, after all it's a non violent crime right?
If garner had not fought the police and allowed himself to be arrested he would be alive. Using a taser or tear gas would have most likely had the same effect.

Illegal or against policy... Flip or flop.  If I were to place a choke hold on a cop is it illegal or against policy?  Regardless of Garners health conditions, it should not have been done as it was against policy and did ultimately result in his death....and I do believe he was dead before he was placed on the gurney.....there was no movement in his body or chest activity for 5 mins or better while he lay there motionless surrounded by trained cops....none of which offered any assistance to his lifeless body. Even tho he was cuffed and restrained.  If he was ok and breathing as the cop indicated, why not just load him in the back of his cruiser and take him to the station to book him?

You asked how police are supposed to do their job.....maybe within the law and policy and without irresponsible actions that result in death.  Frankly I don't care if the alleged perp was black, white, brown or green.....he didn't deserve that.  We don't know if tasers or tear gas would have had the same effect or end result, because those were not used, but those very well may have been the approved method to subdue him...whereas the choke hold was not.  The cop responsible for the against policy choke hold is ultimately responsible because it was against policy and the man died, and he should be held accountable.  Had he used an approved method consistent with policy, it would have more reasonable or acceptable because it was within policy guidelines.  It's when you go outside or against policy and something bad happens that you are ultimately responsible, should be held accountable because you deviated from law/policy/guidelines. 

As I've said, I've watched the video. When watching closely, the officers right arm was under the Garners right arm.
Why is this so hard to figure out.  Garner should have complied.

[Serk]

The libertarian in me has to point out there's a much bigger issue here:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2014/12/05/dont-support-laws-you-are-not-willing-to-kill-to-enforce/?postshare=9431417815900846

[BF]

I'm not sure the cop(s) used a choke hold on the guy. 

It looks to me (admittedly and untrained eye) that the cop that put his arm around the guy's neck was meant to bring him down to restrain him. 

It was a an offense worthy of a summons.  He didn't want to comply.  They went to arrest him.  He resisted.  They needed to bring him down to restrain him.  It was his choice to be difficult. 

What are the cops supposed to do when someone doesn't want to comply.....say pretty please?  And if they still don't want to go with the cops, then what?  Say pretty please with sugar on it? 

[big d]

Pavalker, I'm sorry you have such a negative view of law enforcement as a whole. While I don't pretend to think all police officers are angels, I don't paint them all in a negative light.
Common sense says if you have asthma pepper spray will affect your breathing and electric shock from a taser will disrupt your heart if you have a serious heart condition as mr garner did on both parts.
The problem I have is with your thought process is Why do you assimilate with criminals instead of law enforcement. If mr garner had followed the directions of the police, he would still be alive.
If the police follow your thought pattern all non violent criminals would still be walking around and not be arrested. So then the police dept can Cut staff. More unemployed, yahooooo
Don't break the law and nothing will happen to you. And if you do break the law don't resist arrest, if you do you might be injured in the scuffle. Period.

[specialdose]

                   I wanted to post this yesterday but I wanted to make darn sure I had this right. My 10 yr. grandson has been in
              wrestling and competitive jiu-jitsu since he was 6. I just had him get back of me, me on my knees of course, I'm 220
              he is 80#. I got him to show me the maneuver called the " seat belt take down " which is exactly what that LEO was
              attempting to apply on Mr. Garner. If you look at the video you can see his right hand come under his armpit. His left
              hand came over his left shoulder and was supposed to finish with his hands meeting, going into what is called a chain
              grip, thus a seat belt and toss to the ground. With Garner being 350 and the cop looked like 170, 180 and things
              moving as fast as they were it turned into his right hand wrapping around his shoulder and left arm going into a
              old fashion head lock.
                   I have seen my grandson use this maneuver many times and quite successfully against some one his size.

                   Now, some on here will call hooey, and that's OK, but the LEO for the police benevolent assoc. was spot on with
                the  seat belt take down. JMO, that officer never intended to choke that man. Bottom line,if he would have complied
               and not resisted  he would probably be alive. Plus, notice the female sergeant in the back ground observing the whole
               scene. My heart goes out to his wife and children.
                

[PAVALKER]

That ferguson report doesn't apply to Garner  case.   And if you look at the video...even a blind man can see that was a choke hold and not a seatbelt maneuver.

Watch this video to see how they responded on him after he was down and possibly already dead....IMO.  Look at the first aid the highly trained killers, Errr I mean officers provided til EMS arrived.  If he was breathing  it must has been thru his ass cause my frail 82yo mother has more breathing movement than that guy did after he was wrestled to the ground and choked... Clearly a Choked.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IYSnp1UGVGc

Geeez, I've seen the video, the whole video not the snipits. The whole world has.
And I'll repeat. As I've said, first and foremost, whether right or wrong, He should have complied
Second, the police overreacted considering the circumstance of a few untaxed cigs.
If you disagree, fine.
You made the mention of autopsies being autopsies, I showed that they aren't. Examiners can disagree as they did in Ferguson. Again, if you disagree, fine.

Ok, agree, admittedly he should have complied, but he was no way  violent or combative from what I could tell and it could have very well been handled differently, even with a taser.    You agree the cops over reacted, but do you agree it was a choke hold and not that laughable seatbelt claim?  I didn't see any arms under his pit area...that was a strong choke hold that the officer had on him.

Yes I did say autopsies are autopsies,  but that so called Ferguson Autopsy in dispute was done by someone that wasn't certified or something and discredited that... Right?  The one that said he was shot in the back was BS.  This Garner case autopsy confirmed what was  clearly visible in the video from what I gather.  

The police were called by the shop keepers. They had to respond. Also cuomo initiated a task force to crack down  on illegal cigarette sales in the city, that is why they had to respond. The police had to arrest him knowing it was a lousy bust.
It was when garner was told he was going to be arrested that he said (I repeat) he said no he wasn't.  That is resisting arrest. He then started moving his arms around to keep the officers away. That is why the seatbelt move was used to take him down. By the way, a choke hold is not illegal but only against policy.
Garner had bad asthma along with a heart condition.
Please explain how the police are supposed to do their job. I know just let him go, after all it's a non violent crime right?
If garner had not fought the police and allowed himself to be arrested he would be alive. Using a taser or tear gas would have most likely had the same effect.

Illegal or against policy... Flip or flop.  If I were to place a choke hold on a cop is it illegal or against policy?  Regardless of Garners health conditions, it should not have been done as it was against policy and did ultimately result in his death....and I do believe he was dead before he was placed on the gurney.....there was no movement in his body or chest activity for 5 mins or better while he lay there motionless surrounded by trained cops....none of which offered any assistance to his lifeless body. Even tho he was cuffed and restrained.  If he was ok and breathing as the cop indicated, why not just load him in the back of his cruiser and take him to the station to book him?

You asked how police are supposed to do their job.....maybe within the law and policy and without irresponsible actions that result in death.  Frankly I don't care if the alleged perp was black, white, brown or green.....he didn't deserve that.  We don't know if tasers or tear gas would have had the same effect or end result, because those were not used, but those very well may have been the approved method to subdue him...whereas the choke hold was not.  The cop responsible for the against policy choke hold is ultimately responsible because it was against policy and the man died, and he should be held accountable.  Had he used an approved method consistent with policy, it would have more reasonable or acceptable because it was within policy guidelines.  It's when you go outside or against policy and something bad happens that you are ultimately responsible, should be held accountable because you deviated from law/policy/guidelines.  

As I've said, I've watched the video. When watching closely, the officers right arm was under the Garners right arm.
Why is this so hard to figure out.  Garner should have complied.

The officers left arm was around Garners neck the entire time in a choke hold,.... Clear and simple.  I don't see how you can't see that and his right hand could have been scratching his or Garners nads for all that matters, but that left arm was the choke hold.  Maybe you are looking at a different video or have dirty glasses.  I know what I and many others see.  I admit the right arm did briefly go to Garners chest area, the officers left and right arm never, not even briefly, interlocked in a seatbelt maneuver.....the left arm always around the neck, and quite tight from what I believe, even as he grabbed Garners right hand/arm with his.  Your perception is your reality....

Yes Garner could have complied, he didn't, the officer could have used an approved method, he didn't and opted to choke instead.  He went outside the lines, as did Garner, and Garner didn't even get the opportunity to go before a grand jury.  Did the suspected crime Garner committed warrant his death, nope, no matter how you cut it. Just like the 12 YO kid that was shot in Ohio didn't  deserve to be shot to death either.

Pavalker, I'm sorry you have such a negative view of law enforcement as a whole. While I don't pretend to think all police officers are angels, I don't paint them all in a negative light.
Common sense says if you have asthma pepper spray will affect your breathing and electric shock from a taser will disrupt your heart if you have a serious heart condition as mr garner did on both parts.
The problem I have is with your thought process is Why do you assimilate with criminals instead of law enforcement. If mr garner had followed the directions of the police, he would still be alive.
If the police follow your thought pattern all non violent criminals would still be walking around and not be arrested. So then the police dept can Cut staff. More unemployed, yahooooo
Don't break the law and nothing will happen to you. And if you do break the law don't resist arrest, if you do you might be injured in the scuffle. Period.

I see people in the light or view they choose to put themselves in.  When I see so many officers or others in office defend an officer that killed someone, be it by being DUI, using a choke hold or shooting someone  needlessly, it makes me sick.  I have and had friends in law enforcement from the State level, county level, city and local levels and know first hand how they operate and cover for each other.  If the police can't or won't police themselves.... They won't get the respect the good ones deserve, and ultimately deserve the the reputation they get.  That's how I see it.  In the military I witnessed more of weeding out the bad apples to save the rest of the bushel, instead of saving the rotten one that spoils the rest.  

Something else that adds to my perception.....  Do you recall the police man hunt for the Cop killer in California, and more recently in PA?  Do you realize the taxpayer costs in manpower, time and resources?  All that looking for one guy that shot another cop.....when have you seen any police entity spend that much time effort and resources on looking for a killer or killers of others??  If it has been, it's has never been publicized.   Even locally years ago I overheard on my scanner of the shooting of an officer across the way and where the chase was leading..... I opened my door and saw the perp across the street catching his breath before he ran across the street.   Called the cops and said he was up in my back yard and I had a bead on em.  Minutes later they rushed in like gang busters, left their cars running and doors open in the streets...cars for five different localities parked in front of my house.  They chased the guy for miles on foot, while I went down and pulled their cars either in my drive and locked em up and watched the others from the porch, armed.  They never caught the guy even with search Helos and heat sensors.  Hours later a few outside localities had to knock on my door to retrieve their car keys.  After all the cars were picked up or gone, I went to the VFW and talked with the The Police Chief who just came from the hospital.  He came over to acknowledge and thank me, then said I should have shot him when I had the chance and they would have covered it up etc.  I asked if they/the Boro would cover my legal fees when the perp or his family came to sue me and take my house etc.... He said ahhh, no ...and that kinda killed the buzz.  

Union COP leader.....laughable. 
http://www.msnbc.com/the-last-word/watch/union-cop--not-a-chokehold--a-seatbelt-maneuver-367479363987

[big d]

So you believe the police should not attempt to do their job, and that the criminals can do what they want. Got it.

[MP]

So you believe the police should not attempt to do their job, and that the criminals can do what they want. Got it.

Sure what it sounds like.  When the cops want to arrest, they have to say "pretty please", then, if the perp says no, they need to add "with sugar on it".  And, if that doesn't work, just walk away.  Sure don't want to do anything to him.

MP