Wire Rope Barrier ....Rider Shredder

[Smokinjoe-VRCCDS#0005]

If you're a motorcyclist and get the creeps every time you see those new cables stretched between lanes on the interstate, well, your fears are well grounded. Here's an excerpt from a study of motorcycle impacts with them and a link to the whole study. Scary.
 Wire rope barrier
 Figure 23 shows the kinematics for an upright rider
 on a motorcycle impacting a wire rope barrier. The
 calculated injuries from the simulations suggest that
 serious injury would result regardless of speed and
 impact angle.
 In all simulations the motorcycle slides along the
 wires until it hits a post, squeezing and trapping the
 rider’s leg against the wires as it does so. The post
 contact causes the motorcycle’s front wheel to snag
 lifting the front of the motorcycle up and throwing
 the rider’s torso and head forward. Because the
 rider’s leg is trapped between the motorcycle and
 the wire ropes and the foot snags in the ropes, the
 head and torso slap into the front of the rising
 motorcycle. Eventually the leg becomes free as the
 motorcycle rotates and the rider is then catapulted
 over the barrier. This is a different result to the
 concrete barrier where the rider was thrown over
 the barrier with relatively little snagging or
 deceleration. both the 60 km/h and 80 km/h impact speeds at
 an angle of 25º, the motorbike throws the rider into
 the air with the rider hitting the ground head first.
 Hence the high HIC.
 One of the motorcycling community’s key concerns
 with wire rope barriers was the possibility of a
 rider’s limb(s) becoming caught in the barrier
 during a collision. The simulations seem to indicate
 that this snagging effect occurs for both the rider’s
 leg nearest the barrier. However of greater concern
 is the snagging of the motorcycle’s front wheel on
 the barrier’s posts.
http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/…/nrd-…/esv/esv19/05-0095-O.pdf

[GiG]

Those things CREEP ME OUT!
Fudgie's got EMT stories about them.
I think they may be cheaper than concrete, but they should be BANNED 

[Pepmyster]

When I go on the link, I cannot find the write-up on this.

[Flat6Valk]

THEY SCARE THE BEJESUS OUT OF ME.  I have a vivid imagination of the potential severing of limbs, heads, etc.

Greg
Flat6Valk

[Strider]

Ditto To what Flat6valk said"..

[Gryphon Rider]

http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/pdf/esv/esv19/05-0095-O.pdf

[Smokinjoe-VRCCDS#0005]

I got the link on Facebook ... Just now read RJ's post on the same issue  

http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,75894.0.html

[Pepmyster]

http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/pdf/esv/esv19/05-0095-O.pdf

Thanks, that one worked. Looks scary as hell. 

[Master Blaster]

A stretch of Interstate 10 just west of Beaumont Texas has recently been blessed with these, I worry about them in a cage just as well as a motor.  Don't know what they were thinking when they opted for this.  Lots of motorcycle traffic through there.

[hubcapsc]

When they first started showing up, I heard they were rushing to put them in
as many grass medians as possible, because they prevent some head-on
collisions from people crossing the median... ironically, just a few years
before that (around here anyway) they were creating grass medians from tree-lined
medians, because people were crashing into the trees...

-Mike

[cajunito]

A few years ago I was on I-10 just east of Beaumont, stopped at the Horseman western store around Vidor when a tractor-trailer lost control and went through the median &  one of those.. that cable sliced right through the front of an SUV, narrowly missing the woman who was driving it... her vehicle came to a rest right in front of the store... A guy who witnessed it said it pulled that cable as taught as a slingshot before it broke... Thank God no one was hurt.... Doesn't seem they're too safe for cages, either.

[..]

More evidence that many in government have craniums full of crap. And we pay the fools.

[da prez]

  #1 put politician on motorcycle.
   #2 get motorcycle going fast enough
    #3 have politician run into safety barrier (shreder)
     #4 wait for what is left of politician to complain
       #5 wait for politician's lawyer to sue for creating a road hazard
        #6 wait for politician to get a large settlement from state
         #7 you know the rest of the story

                                            da prez

[blastedbugler]

Unfortunately these wire barriers are becoming more & more prevalent in Australia.
In my working life I was a road safety auditor.
No matter how much I identified the issues for motorcyclist they were ignored.
The main reason is that they are cheaper to construct & work OK for cars.
The problem is that they are installed on convex curves as well as concave ones.
They are only meant for straights or concave,
The intent is that when hit by a vehicle the tension in the wire increases & therefore control the stoppage.
With convex the wires become loose when hit & the whole length becomes useless.
There are moves afoot to have sleeves over the wires to help out with motorcycle accidents
Blastedbugler

[oZ]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wt1viVC9T0w

[Gavin_Sons]

We have those crappy cables here in indiana. Wa goimg up 65 yesterday and noticed for about 50 miles the cables were down. We get snow here, and we have people that cant drive in the snow, therefore they run off the interstate and tear down these cables. Causing thousands of dollars of damage to their vehicle. If the cables were not there they would have ran off the road, spun out and got stuck. Minimal damage to vehicle. I try to avoid the interstate on the bike unless im trying to get somewhere quick.

[Skinhead]

Those things CREEP ME OUT!
Fudgie's got EMT stories about them.
I think they may be cheaper than concrete, but they should be BANNED 

You should know all about banning!  The voice of experience!

[YoungPUP]

They put them up up her in NW Indiana as well.  Took all of about 2 weeks before the scrappers stole several miles of the cable. 

[old2soon]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wt1viVC9T0w

         One HAS too wonder how he would have fared had the cable restraint NOT been there? Doesn't one? Repeating myself-as soon as I saw them I KNEW they weren't "motorcycle friendly".  But as we are WELL aware politicians DON'T listen to anybody!  RIDE SAFE.

[cookiedough]

I remember growing up seeing them locally in WI, but don't see them cables anymore anywhere which is a good thing.  I still see the ribbed sheet metal for barriers all over, but no cables.

[Smokinjoe-VRCCDS#0005]

I remember growing up seeing them locally in WI, but don't see them cables anymore anywhere which is a good thing.  I still see the ribbed sheet metal for barriers all over, but no cables.

The southern Interstate system has thousands of miles of the shredder cable installed with more going up everyday. Its not rocket science to know why.... Its cheaper than guard rail.

[MAD6Gun]

 A few years back Indiana had a crash. Truck driver who falsified his log book fell asleep at the wheel crossed the median on 69 south hitting a passenger van from a local college killing everyone but one girl. The driver did time. This was probably a deciding factor for Indiana putting these things up...

[chip]

 I do not think much of these cables.http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,15337.0.html

[old2soon]

Instead of JUST ranting here about these cursed dangerous "cheese graters" I just like 6 minutes ago sent an E-mail to the American Motorcyclist Association voicing my concerns-as a rider-over these deadly things lying in wait to at worst kill us at best to remove a limb or two.  Any other members of A M A or other M/C centric outfits really NEED to bring this up with whoever fields these type of concerns. DO NOT just rant here-go to your National Headquarters and raise a polite but a NOISY stink!  The squeaky wheel gits the grease so I've heard!  I'm going to look up the E-mail address of MoDot-Missouri Dept of Transportation and my state senators and they will be getting E-mails on this "cheese grater" issue. We sit here and discuss it amongst ourselves NOTHING gets done at a Local level or a State level or even better for us-the Federal level. I CAN NOT be the ONLY one that belongs to a National Motorcycle organization.  Lets get the ball rollin on this Brothers and Sisters.  As riders these cursed cables CAN and WILL affect US the MOST. So kwityerbitchin get up offin yer butt and start E-mailing or snail mailing YOUR/OUR concerns to the people that make the decisions where YOU live.  We got NUTTIN to lose and EVERYTHING to gain. RIDE SAFE.

[old2soon]

And JUST moments ago I E-mailed MoDot. Voicing my concerns as a Missouri Motorcyclist. I WILL be relaying any and all messages they send me. They just thanked me-MoDot-for contacting them! We shall SEE if there will be any substance to our communications!  C'mon brothers and sisters-put this P M S time to GOOD use for a good CAUSE.  I know as lot of us will be traveling in June. Wouldn't it be nice when we gather in Spearfish for some of us to say-hey I saw them starting to take out the cheese graters in ---------! Hope springs eternal in this old farts chest!  RIDE SAFE.

[old2soon]

C'mon c'mon c'mon-somebody here help me pick up the gauntlet. We RIDE therefore WE need to act.  DO NOT let me hear crickets!  RIDE SAFE.

[..]

In the past I've emailed GA DOT about a variety of road and transport concerns. From worn out  lane markings to the type of material used for road surfaces.

Never had a reply not even the "we've got your email and no -one cares" auto respose.
n
The first rider shredders I saw were on GA 400, a 4 lane with grass median north of metro Atlanta.

I sent GA DOT an email asking about the cables and what studies they had relied on.

Crickets is what I got in reply.

Govt - I dislike it at all levels.

[old2soon]

Well Paul the reply I got from MoDot was in truth an auto reply-can ya sez robot?  But I'll give them the benefit of the doubt for now as I E-mailed them bout an hour and a half prior to the business day ending.  I know what I want from MoDot BUT with yer post I KNOW what to expect-crickets! What do they say on the opening of-Person of Interest-the gubmint considers these people meaningless!  RIDE SAFE.

[sheets]

Many signs and markings differ from state to state. There is a manual of uniform traffic control devices, many of which are a Federal standard, so you will recognize some of the same sign/markings/delineation/guardrail regardless of what state you are in. I'd hazard a guess that the cable barrier is a Federal traffic control mandate. Most states get funding from the Feds to build and maintain and make emergency repairs to "U.S." routes and "Interstate" freeways in their respective states that cross multiple state lines. The states have to follow federal mandates on their respective routes or get cut off from federal funding. I'm thinking the matter is out of the individual state's hands. I suspect the tree to bark at is the Fed D.O.T., to determine who dreamed up the cable barrier and how many crash dummies on motorcycles they tested before they rubber-stamped the approval. For localized questions find the local state DOT regional HQ and pose your question to the Public Information Officer (PIO). Employees, no matter where they are on the ladder of departmental hierarchy are not authorized to speak to anyone on behalf of the Department. All Q & A will go through/from the P.I.O.  sheets (retired hiway guy).     

[pago cruiser]

I finally got a few hours off work and sent an email off to the AMA.  Their website is here:


As insignificant as we'all are individually, the only way we have a snowballs chance in hell of being heard is from a National Organization.  Have copied it below if anyone wants to paraphrase/crib/plagiarize and send to someone else. 

I also posted some results of studies I found in another thread, here:
http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,75894.0.html
Scroll about halfway down for some scary crash-test dummy pics.

Anyhow, here's what I sent.

"As an engineer with over 50 years and around 300,000 miles on motorcycles, I am angry and appalled at the proliferation of hi tension cable median barriers.  I have spent days doing research, and it appears no singular state-based study has concluded these are sufficiently dangerous to motorcycles to limit their continued installation.

Basically, the dangers to motorcycles are dismissed as "more study needs to be done", while every day hundreds of miles more are installed.  It is a given that the barriers pretty much solve the problem of autos and trucks careening off road and causing carnage with oncoming traffic; and they are cheaper than any other system.  The fact (just read some European studies) that they are extremely deadly to motorcyclists seems to fall into the category of "a few must suffer for the good of the many", with apologies to Mr Spock.... We continue to set up motorcyclists to be killed as sacrificial lambs so more distracted drivers can live, while many places in Europe are actually removing these killers from their roadways. 

My apologies, but this sucks.

Does the AMA have a stance on this topic?  Is there an action group?  While fighting against motorcycle only checkpoints for loud mufflers is a worthy and commendable endeavor...  the rapid continued rampant installation of these "cheese graters" continues un-abated, and if you ride long enough, will eventually affect you, or someone you know.   

Please. Tell me what can be done.  How can individuals help.  I am active on several motorcycle forums, and this topic is one of energetic concern on all of them.

Help.  Please." 

I believe it was in Terminator 1 where Arnold said something like "Anger is a better motivator than despair", or something like that...  WTF do we need to do to get heard?