Umpqua Community College Shooting

[cookiedough]

No idea what anyone of us would have done if we heard gunshots nearby.  Run away?  Hide? or go after the SOB?

Cannot fathom such a horrid experience if in that classroom what to do?  Not to play hero, but I think if I saw one person getting shot and if the dirt bag was not pointing the gun in my direction,  I would probably tackle the SOB and get the gun away ASAP and hope and pray others will come to help out holding him down as well while I beat his brain in to oblivion and once gun away from him, shoot him.   

once you take his gun away, shooting him would be murder, not self defense.

So?  If I don't shoot him and still beat the heck out of the SOB, he goes to jail for say 30 years, out on probation in 20 years and who do you think the FIRST person he comes after???  ME!  Might as well end it right there and then if he already has killed a person at point blank range. 

[The emperor has no clothes]

...  I grieve for the victims,  and hope that the  perpetrators who conditioned the actors will burn in hell.   

Careful what you ask for.  Those perpetrators may be in part, us.  When one of these wackos sees how much attention is given the shooter in these cases it may well inspire them to do something similar.  The shooter in this case referred to the upcoming event as his only chance to be famous.

Part of the conditioning may be us and our news media.  I'm not sure of a solution.  Part may be to never refer to a criminal by name or by a moniker he himself has chose such as the BTK killer of Kansas.  When one is crazy enough to have resigned himself to die and to take as many as he can with him what exactly is the answer?

Perhaps more good people armed and ready could shorten the duration of the event.

Perhaps. Perhaps flagging people kicked out of the military after 1 month could stop the event all together. 

[Patrick]

No idea what anyone of us would have done if we heard gunshots nearby.  Run away?  Hide? or go after the SOB?

Cannot fathom such a horrid experience if in that classroom what to do?  Not to play hero, but I think if I saw one person getting shot and if the dirt bag was not pointing the gun in my direction,  I would probably tackle the SOB and get the gun away ASAP and hope and pray others will come to help out holding him down as well while I beat his brain in to oblivion and once gun away from him, shoot him.   

once you take his gun away, shooting him would be murder, not self defense.

So?  If I don't shoot him and still beat the heck out of the SOB, he goes to jail for say 30 years, out on probation in 20 years and who do you think the FIRST person he comes after???  ME!  Might as well end it right there and then if he already has killed a person at point blank range. 

Ya, but, if he does it right, you'll never see it coming. It'll be over in a instant.   

[old2soon]

What the liberals have yet to address and I'm truly curious about they keep on stating we need more gun laws. Pick any mass shooting in the last 20 years and whether e perp is still living or not-how MANY laws did these individuals break on their way to their date with infamy. Any weapon has to be operated. Knife-projectile firing-explosives-you see where this is headed. We CAN NOT-leastways to my limited knowledge-predict HOW people will act or react. Any weapon-I M H O-is a means to an end. Going from defensive to offensive is dictated by circumstances. BUT-just from the little bit I've read on this particular doer-sounds like he was a might off plumb-his bread ain't riz-elevator don't go to the top floor. How does mental illness-IF that's what it was-get treated if the symptoms are not visible to friends and family? His weapons it seems were legally purchased. How do you cull out a few sickos like the last bunch of murderers that have done these mass killings? I've known people that appear "normal" but have a really dark evil side. None-to my knowledge have done anything remotely like this. Questions and more questions! And another item I'd like addressed-what is the percentage of these sickos doing mass killings to the law abiding LEGAL gun owners? RIDE SAFE.

[The emperor has no clothes]

O2S, he was known to have mental issues. His Mom had reported him. The military kicked him out after 1 month. The kid in N. Carolina was known to have issues also. We as a society need to quit brushing these people aside and at least keep them away from 13 guns.

[PAVALKER]

O2S, he was known to have mental issues. His Mom had reported him. The military kicked him out after 1 month. The kid in N. Carolina was known to have issues also. We as a society need to quit brushing these people aside and at least keep them away from 13 guns.

That is a very fine line to walk, and make sure it isn't abused as a means of gun control.  Granted, the last few of these characters were a little off balance and it was known/reported.  Somehow, unfortunately, it didn't get to the folks that need to have that info so something could have been done.  There are concerns about HIPA laws from one side and concerns of unlawful or erroneous reporting as a means to retaliate at folks or concerns of broad abuse as a means of effecting gun control.  It needs to be clearly defined without breaking laws or infringing on individuals rights.  And maybe that's why it's too difficult to handle and they would rather fight about creating additional guns laws which won't cure a thing.....it gives the impression that they are doing something about it, without really doing anything about it.

[The emperor has no clothes]

O2S, he was known to have mental issues. His Mom had reported him. The military kicked him out after 1 month. The kid in N. Carolina was known to have issues also. We as a society need to quit brushing these people aside and at least keep them away from 13 guns.

That is a very fine line to walk, and make sure it isn't abused as a means of gun control.  Granted, the last few of these characters were a little off balance and it was known/reported.  Somehow, unfortunately, it didn't get to the folks that need to have that info so something could have been done.  There are concerns about HIPA laws from one side and concerns of unlawful or erroneous reporting as a means to retaliate at folks or concerns of broad abuse as a means of effecting gun control.  It needs to be clearly defined without breaking laws or infringing on individuals rights.  And maybe that's why it's too difficult to handle and they would rather fight about creating additional guns laws which won't cure a thing.....it gives the impression that they are doing something about it, without really doing anything about it.

We have no problem with denying guns to felons, domestic violence offenders, people who have involuntarily committed to institutions. We ought to be able to weed out SOME of these guys.

[old2soon]

Little more on the thought process of the current "administration"-administration being used in the BROADEST sense-We need a very fine scalpel or laser scalpel and the current regime is looking at a bulldozer.    Talkin bout heir idea of gun control. BUT that's My opinion. RIDE SAFE.

[..]

O2S, he was known to have mental issues. His Mom had reported him. The military kicked him out after 1 month. The kid in N. Carolina was known to have issues also. We as a society need to quit brushing these people aside and at least keep them away from 13 guns.

That is a very fine line to walk, and make sure it isn't abused as a means of gun control.  Granted, the last few of these characters were a little off balance and it was known/reported.  Somehow, unfortunately, it didn't get to the folks that need to have that info so something could have been done.  There are concerns about HIPA laws from one side and concerns of unlawful or erroneous reporting as a means to retaliate at folks or concerns of broad abuse as a means of effecting gun control.  It needs to be clearly defined without breaking laws or infringing on individuals rights.  And maybe that's why it's too difficult to handle and they would rather fight about creating additional guns laws which won't cure a thing.....it gives the impression that they are doing something about it, without really doing anything about it.

We have no problem with denying guns to felons, domestic violence offenders, people who have involuntarily committed to institutions. We ought to be able to weed out SOME of these guys.

You may deny lawful possession to the felons, domestic violence offenders, people who have involuntarily committed to institutions but those wish to do others harm will still do so.

Those that wish to do so will still arm themselves.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Yes but we can mitigate it some.

[cookiedough]

A lady at work even commented to me if Obummer thinks he is going to take our guns away to all,  he will have a civil war on his hands for sure.

guns do not kill people,  people kill people.  I'm all for tighter gun control and more methods before purchasing even if it takes longer (say weeks) to get my gun, but denying law abiding citizens the right to bear arms is not going to fly with 90% of Americans. 

Still even all that,  the evil doers will get their hands on a gun no matter the rules, it just may take longer is all and hope/pray these new laws to purchasing a gun weeds out a few sickos in this country.

[Bighead]

This whole conversation reminds me of an old All in the Family episode when Gloria was arguing with Archie  about someone getting killed by a person with a gun. And his reply was LITTLE GURL WOULD IT MAKE YOU FEEL ANY BETTER IF THEY WERE BEING PUSHED OUT OF WINDOWS?

The point is people will find a way to kill other people no matter the Laws.
Hell a man could walk into a crowed Resturaunt or other business with a baseball bat or a chain saw and kill many people very easily.

[Willow]

O2S, he was known to have mental issues. His Mom had reported him. The military kicked him out after 1 month. The kid in N. Carolina was known to have issues also. We as a society need to quit brushing these people aside and at least keep them away from 13 guns.

That is a very fine line to walk, and make sure it isn't abused as a means of gun control.  Granted, the last few of these characters were a little off balance and it was known/reported.  Somehow, unfortunately, it didn't get to the folks that need to have that info so something could have been done.  There are concerns about HIPA laws from one side and concerns of unlawful or erroneous reporting as a means to retaliate at folks or concerns of broad abuse as a means of effecting gun control.  It needs to be clearly defined without breaking laws or infringing on individuals rights.  And maybe that's why it's too difficult to handle and they would rather fight about creating additional guns laws which won't cure a thing.....it gives the impression that they are doing something about it, without really doing anything about it.

We have no problem with denying guns to felons, domestic violence offenders, people who have involuntarily committed to institutions. We ought to be able to weed out SOME of these guys.

My concern for what you are proposing is its great propensity to be abused.  Today it may sound sound to deny a right to folks with some sort of mental illness (btw what's the percentage of people diagnosed with mental illness that actually end up using a gun violently?).  Tomorrow it may not sound so good when they start identifying your or my propensity to be a mental defect.  It's a step down the wrong road.  I'm sure there are a lot of folks ready to codify my own mental defect and I'm not sure you're all that far behind.

I'm still in strong support of the best solution to bad people with guns is more good people with guns.  

[Wizzard]

O2S, he was known to have mental issues. His Mom had reported him. The military kicked him out after 1 month. The kid in N. Carolina was known to have issues also. We as a society need to quit brushing these people aside and at least keep them away from 13 guns.

That is a very fine line to walk, and make sure it isn't abused as a means of gun control.  Granted, the last few of these characters were a little off balance and it was known/reported.  Somehow, unfortunately, it didn't get to the folks that need to have that info so something could have been done.  There are concerns about HIPA laws from one side and concerns of unlawful or erroneous reporting as a means to retaliate at folks or concerns of broad abuse as a means of effecting gun control.  It needs to be clearly defined without breaking laws or infringing on individuals rights.  And maybe that's why it's too difficult to handle and they would rather fight about creating additional guns laws which won't cure a thing.....it gives the impression that they are doing something about it, without really doing anything about it.

We have no problem with denying guns to felons, domestic violence offenders, people who have involuntarily committed to institutions. We ought to be able to weed out SOME of these guys.

My concern for what you are proposing is its great propensity to be abused.  Today it may sound sound to deny a right to folks with some sort of mental illness (btw what's the percentage of people diagnosed with mental illness that actually end up using a gun violently?).  Tomorrow it may not sound so good when they start identifying your or my propensity to be a mental defect.  It's a step down the wrong road.  I'm sure there are a lot of folks ready to codify my own mental defect and I'm not sure you're all that far behind.

I'm still in strong support of the best solution to bad people with guns is more good people with guns.  

I agree with that last statement 100%

[Michvalk]

The real problem is not guns. The problem is accessibility of guns. If you have a reason to report someone, and nothing is done, that is where the problem is. There is no law that allows the removal of guns from the hands of people, who could be a problem. If you give the combo to your gun safe to someone you know is mentally imbalanced, YOU could be the problem. In this instance, the perp was given guns as presents. Who the hell gives a gun to someone like that? Oh , it will keep them entertained.....

[The emperor has no clothes]

O2S, he was known to have mental issues. His Mom had reported him. The military kicked him out after 1 month. The kid in N. Carolina was known to have issues also. We as a society need to quit brushing these people aside and at least keep them away from 13 guns.

That is a very fine line to walk, and make sure it isn't abused as a means of gun control.  Granted, the last few of these characters were a little off balance and it was known/reported.  Somehow, unfortunately, it didn't get to the folks that need to have that info so something could have been done.  There are concerns about HIPA laws from one side and concerns of unlawful or erroneous reporting as a means to retaliate at folks or concerns of broad abuse as a means of effecting gun control.  It needs to be clearly defined without breaking laws or infringing on individuals rights.  And maybe that's why it's too difficult to handle and they would rather fight about creating additional guns laws which won't cure a thing.....it gives the impression that they are doing something about it, without really doing anything about it.

We have no problem with denying guns to felons, domestic violence offenders, people who have involuntarily committed to institutions. We ought to be able to weed out SOME of these guys.

My concern for what you are proposing is its great propensity to be abused.  Today it may sound sound to deny a right to folks with some sort of mental illness (btw what's the percentage of people diagnosed with mental illness that actually end up using a gun violently?).  Tomorrow it may not sound so good when they start identifying your or my propensity to be a mental defect.  It's a step down the wrong road.  I'm sure there are a lot of folks ready to codify my own mental defect and I'm not sure you're all that far behind.

I'm still in strong support of the best solution to bad people with guns is more good people with guns.  

Willow, I'm not as sure as you are about more good people with guns. BUT for the sake argument lets say that is the best remedy. How would you go about implementing that ?

[The emperor has no clothes]

The real problem is not guns. The problem is accessibility of guns. If you have a reason to report someone, and nothing is done, that is where the problem is. There is no law that allows the removal of guns from the hands of people, who could be a problem. If you give the combo to your gun safe to someone you know is mentally imbalanced, YOU could be the problem. In this instance, the perp was given guns as presents. Who the hell gives a gun to someone like that? Oh , it will keep them entertained.....

The way I understand it was some were presents. Some he bought.

[PAVALKER]

O2S, he was known to have mental issues. His Mom had reported him. The military kicked him out after 1 month. The kid in N. Carolina was known to have issues also. We as a society need to quit brushing these people aside and at least keep them away from 13 guns.

That is a very fine line to walk, and make sure it isn't abused as a means of gun control.  Granted, the last few of these characters were a little off balance and it was known/reported.  Somehow, unfortunately, it didn't get to the folks that need to have that info so something could have been done.  There are concerns about HIPA laws from one side and concerns of unlawful or erroneous reporting as a means to retaliate at folks or concerns of broad abuse as a means of effecting gun control.  It needs to be clearly defined without breaking laws or infringing on individuals rights.  And maybe that's why it's too difficult to handle and they would rather fight about creating additional guns laws which won't cure a thing.....it gives the impression that they are doing something about it, without really doing anything about it.

We have no problem with denying guns to felons, domestic violence offenders, people who have involuntarily committed to institutions. We ought to be able to weed out SOME of these guys.

My concern for what you are proposing is its great propensity to be abused.  Today it may sound sound to deny a right to folks with some sort of mental illness (btw what's the percentage of people diagnosed with mental illness that actually end up using a gun violently?).  Tomorrow it may not sound so good when they start identifying your or my propensity to be a mental defect.  It's a step down the wrong road.  I'm sure there are a lot of folks ready to codify my own mental defect and I'm not sure you're all that far behind.

I'm still in strong support of the best solution to bad people with guns is more good people with guns.  

Willow, I'm not as sure as you are about more good people with guns. BUT for the sake argument lets say that is the best remedy. How would you go about implementing that ?

Hmmm first and easiest way is to abolish "gun free zones", encourage teachers to get proper training and carry, have "armed" guards instead of unarmed guards.  Maybe if the students were permitted to carry for their own protection one of them could have acted appropriately.  But they were denied their right to self protection because they signed up to attend the school and volunteered to give up that right as a result.  I don't usually attend places or events where they don't permit carry, but if I do.....I may still carry.

[Patrick]

One armed vet confronted this dickhead and was shot 6 or 7 times and reportedly may now have to learn how to walk again.






Ooops, apparently I was wrong, sorry. The report I saw claimed, or I thought claimed, the vet was armed. I guess he was wasn't.
So, an unarmed vet confronted this dickhead and was shot up for his heroism.

[PAVALKER]

One armed vet confronted this dickhead and was shot 6 or 7 times and reportedly may now have to learn how to walk again.

Huh?

Pretty sure you don't mean one armed Vet, or a one armed Vet (with or without a gun). I'm pretty sure you mean an Army Vet (that was unarmed)...correct?

[JimmyG]

I saw this post on FB. Anyone confirmed this??  Just asking,

"These are the pictures of today's shooter in Oregon. His name was Chris Harper Mercer (also known as Saiv Sharma). The mainstream media won't release this tidbit just yet but he was a recent Muslim convert. This guy went through two classrooms and asked every person what religion they followed. The Christians were shot in the head. Those that had a different religion, or none at all, were shot in the legs.

Now I understand why Obama jumped onto the gun narrative. That's what happens when the shooter doesn't fit the angry, white, right wing red neck narrative. Remember how quickly the gun was blamed in the Virginia newscaster slayings? I see a trend. I see damage control in action. I saw this guy's profile on Facebook an hour ago. Now, he's totally unsearchable".

[Airedale]

Our fearless leader here in NY is calling for shutting down the federal government.

The New York Daily News quoted Cuomo saying:

If the far right is willing to shut down the government because they don’t get a tax cut for the rich, then our people should have the same resolve and threaten to shut down the government if they don’t get a real gun control law to stop killing of their innocents.

Cuomo doubled down on this demand following the heinous October 1 attack on innocents at Umpqua Community College, saying, “I’d love to see the Democrats stand up and say, ‘We’re going to shut down the federal government or threaten to shut down the government if we don’t get real gun control legislation,’”

According to The Hill, Cuomo stressed that this government shut down for gun control ought to be a “high priority.”

He added:

I would like to see Hillary and the vice president and whoever else is in the race from both parties talk about the issue of guns. Rather than the political blather that is now going on, let’s put some real issues on the agenda and let’s put at the top: What are you doing to about guns? Let’s have that be one of the top priorities.

Cuomo signed the SAFE Act gun control package into law in January 2013. Through it, he and his fellow New York Democrats banned “high capacity” ammunition magazines and “assault weapons” while implementing universal background checks and firearm registration. Although these gun controls were passed with pledges to make New Yorkers safer, firearm-related homicides are surging in NYC–the shooting death of Carey Gabay is a case in point.

Yet Cuomo says his gun control push has not failed. Rather, he says Congress undercut him by not putting similar laws in place on the federal level.

[The emperor has no clothes]

One armed vet confronted this dickhead and was shot 6 or 7 times and reportedly may now have to learn how to walk again.

That guy was not armed. There was a different vet who was armed. He stayed in the classroom he was in to defend his fellow students if the shooter came to their room.

[The emperor has no clothes]

I saw this post on FB. Anyone confirmed this??  Just asking,

"These are the pictures of today's shooter in Oregon. His name was Chris Harper Mercer (also known as Saiv Sharma). The mainstream media won't release this tidbit just yet but he was a recent Muslim convert. This guy went through two classrooms and asked every person what religion they followed. The Christians were shot in the head. Those that had a different religion, or none at all, were shot in the legs.

Now I understand why Obama jumped onto the gun narrative. That's what happens when the shooter doesn't fit the angry, white, right wing red neck narrative. Remember how quickly the gun was blamed in the Virginia newscaster slayings? I see a trend. I see damage control in action. I saw this guy's profile on Facebook an hour ago. Now, he's totally unsearchable".

I haven't seen anything to that effect. What little I have seen about the guy was that he was not religious. YOU CAN'T BELIEVE EVERYTHING YOU SEE ON FACEBOOK. (or anywhere else for that matter)

[Bighead]

I saw this post on FB. Anyone confirmed this??  Just asking,

"These are the pictures of today's shooter in Oregon. His name was Chris Harper Mercer (also known as Saiv Sharma). The mainstream media won't release this tidbit just yet but he was a recent Muslim convert. This guy went through two classrooms and asked every person what religion they followed. The Christians were shot in the head. Those that had a different religion, or none at all, were shot in the legs.

Now I understand why Obama jumped onto the gun narrative. That's what happens when the shooter doesn't fit the angry, white, right wing red neck narrative. Remember how quickly the gun was blamed in the Virginia newscaster slayings? I see a trend. I see damage control in action. I saw this guy's profile on Facebook an hour ago. Now, he's totally unsearchable".

I haven't seen anything to that effect. What little I have seen about the guy was that he was not religious. YOU CAN'T BELIEVE EVERYTHING YOU SEE ON FACEBOOK. (or anywhere else for that matter)

It was on national news yesterday morning. Not just in Facebook.
But the sheriff would not talk about anything relating to the case he said it was too early to make a statement

[The emperor has no clothes]

I saw this post on FB. Anyone confirmed this??  Just asking,

"These are the pictures of today's shooter in Oregon. His name was Chris Harper Mercer (also known as Saiv Sharma). The mainstream media won't release this tidbit just yet but he was a recent Muslim convert. This guy went through two classrooms and asked every person what religion they followed. The Christians were shot in the head. Those that had a different religion, or none at all, were shot in the legs.

Now I understand why Obama jumped onto the gun narrative. That's what happens when the shooter doesn't fit the angry, white, right wing red neck narrative. Remember how quickly the gun was blamed in the Virginia newscaster slayings? I see a trend. I see damage control in action. I saw this guy's profile on Facebook an hour ago. Now, he's totally unsearchable".

I haven't seen anything to that effect. What little I have seen about the guy was that he was not religious. YOU CAN'T BELIEVE EVERYTHING YOU SEE ON FACEBOOK. (or anywhere else for that matter)

It was on national news yesterday morning. Not just in Facebook.
But the sheriff would not talk about anything relating to the case he said it was too early to make a statement

That he was a Muslim convert ? I saw where he asked people if they were a Christian but I haven't seen anything about being a Muslim. I think it was his Mom that said he had mental problems but wasn't particularly religious.

[..]

Saiv Sharma sounds more Hindu?

[Serk]

Previous doctor of mine was telling me how he could pick any random person in this country and using the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders 5th edition, could formally diagnose them with at LEAST two mental diseases. Every. Single. Person. EVERYONE has a mental disorder of some sort if they want you to. So ya... slippery slope

[The emperor has no clothes]

Previous doctor of mine was telling me how he could pick any random person in this country and using the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders 5th edition, could formally diagnose them with at LEAST two mental diseases. Every. Single. Person. EVERYONE has a mental disorder of some sort if they want you to. So ya... slippery slope

I'm not suggesting we interrogate people who wash their hands 7 times and walk out the door backwards. I'm talking about young men who are alienated from society, have hatred, depression. We profile terrorists and criminals . What is so wrong with profiling these alienated young men ? I'm not saying they shouldn't have their day in court either. But as an example : a young man is kicked out of the military because of psychological issues, is reported by family and friends as having problems. Why would we not try to get them help and remove their weapons until they are well ? Granted this is all hypothetical but to just ignore these signals is stupid in my opinion.

[PAVALKER]

Previous doctor of mine was telling me how he could pick any random person in this country and using the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders 5th edition, could formally diagnose them with at LEAST two mental diseases. Every. Single. Person. EVERYONE has a mental disorder of some sort if they want you to. So ya... slippery slope

Oh yea...very slippery.  The VA Hospital asks about depression, thoughts of suicide, etc....did ask if you had any guns etc.....  Sometimes what may appear to be innocent well intended questions are not.

[3fan4life]

This explains A Lot: