Its over my head

[dreamaker]

I am not the sharpest pencil in the pack, so sometimes I just don't get things, and how they are applied.  People refer to groups and factions like Liberals, Democrats, Republican and so on. OK!  Now! if you are Polish, Afro American, German, Chinese and so no, You can not change what you are.  You are what you are. Now when people refer to these social and political groups, they speak as what these groups represent is written in stone, and is not subject to change and improvement. They act like Its a tattoo, once you get it, you can never go back. Now I am very independent and try to vote for the best person and support for everyone's best interest, not just my own.  So my question is, why can't you support or change your mind, for your, or others concepts without being branded in a negative image. Its like, to call someone a Liberal is like a negative slur, or did I miss the boat somewhere. 

[Patrick]

I think some of it may have to do with how one is brought up and subjected to. I come from a family of staunch democrats, so, I was one. Probably even a liberal one at one time.

But, like you, I don't see a problem with changing ones mind. People change with age. I like to think its called wisdom and experience. I don't know if I've gained much wisdom, but, I sure have gained experience. I think we all do and it has its influence.

I have a feeling when it comes to every day life we all feel somewhat the same. We here just happen to talk a lot about politics. When it comes to that, I'm a governmental fiscal conservative.

But, if a good presidential candidate comes along I think most of us would vote for that person probably despite party.

I also think we know that the parties have changed over the decades, they are not what they used to be. So why not just vote for the best person.     Problem is, that best person is more often a republican. 

[dreamaker]

I always thought of parties being kind of sheepish, them not supporting what they believe in, but supporting what the crowd tells them to.  In my younger party days, they use to have what was called Young Republican dances, to several of them to check out the babes, but ended up infiltrating the discussions. My first impression was, what a brain washing, and what a ladder climbing group. Just wasn't my kind of people, I liked people that were real and not plastic. I guess I am to independent, I can understand we need some sort of structure, but I am not a fan of control.

[Patrick]

I agree. I think if we ever get a viable 3rd party, I'll probably join it.

I too went went to the parties and dances in college, I was just there to drink beer and chase the girls. When ever I was able to catch one, we didn't stay there very much longer.

I never talked politics years ago, knew it was useless. So maybe I never gained any wisdom over the years. 

But, I've always enjoyed a good discussion, errr, argument.   

[Master Blaster]

I agree. I think if we ever get a viable 3rd party, I'll probably join it.

I too went went to the parties and dances in college, I was just there to drink beer and chase the girls. When ever I was able to catch one, we didn't stay there very much longer.

I never talked politics years ago, knew it was useless. So maybe I never gained any wisdom over the years. 

But, I've always enjoyed a good discussion, errr, argument.   

Another party just means another bureaucracy to support.  Another pile of special agendas to fight, and generally more government.  Of course it would also mean more amusement at election time as there would be more mud to sling, and more employment to the spin doctors.

[dreamaker]

Back in my Hippy days, discussions were called Rap Sessions, I wasn't in to Politics, but I was interested in what people had to say, and I learned from it. Specially Who and Who Not to Trust, some pretty radical people from the SDS, and Weathermen kind of people, some of them pretty scary. That is why I stay independent.

[Romeo]

Interesting discussion. I have always been interested in the political process and how it effects the general public. I used to think political parties were really just organizations that people would join if they were interested in holding public office. I think years ago there really wasn't too much difference between the parties. Two sets of elitists vying for our votes. Under those circumstances, it was natural to just pick whoever seemed to make the most sense for everybody from my point of view.
Seems to me it's totally different today. I think both parties have been hijacked by the lunatic fringe on both ends of the spectrum. I do feel the dems have moved farther to the left then the GOP has to the right. But that probably reflects the values of the people as well. After all, progressive thought often includes permissive behavior regardless of how seemingly foreign or abhorrent that behavior might have been previously. It follows that so called progressives would be open to just about anything new.
Conservatives on the other hand, tend to cling to the status quo.
I have never been able to figure out why it is so hard for either side to at least accept the best the other has to offer while rejecting the bad. This to me is the essence of compromise. Finding the middle ground.
It is what politics in my view used to be all about. It's how we as a nation arrived at decisions that were truly the best for all.
Somewhere we lost sight of this. Maybe it was Vietnam Nam. Maybe it was watergate. Maybe it was just people deciding they were only going to do what was best for them, and screw everyone else.

[scooperhsd]

When I was in college - I was pretty much what you would expect an upcoming military officer to be - pretty conservative / pro republican, Over the years since - I've generally grown more centrist - so much so that a couple elections ago - I went to the Board of elections and dropped all party affiliation. Even at my " proconservative best'- I never voted straight party line - I always voted best candidate.

Now - I actively do everything I can to avoid politcal calls coming to our home phone. It starts with keeping a low profile (and rarely exposing my phone number) to using a telemarketer block that pretty much requires a human to get past   .

"The opposite of progress is Congress".

[Momz]

I am a member of ABATE, that means that I am politically involved in local and state politics. ABATE is not a (no longer) a group of beer drinking, misfits complaining about having to wear helmets.

There are issues that effect all of us, but complaining and whining will never cause change. If those issues bother you enough, then get involved in the political process. Being an ABATE member I was introduced to state politics and how they are "supposed to work". We are encouraged to run for political office or at least to run as precinct delegates. As a precinct delegate I attend political fund raisers, campaign rallies, "meet & greets" and town hall meetings of both major parties. Being at those political gatherings one can determine the leanings of the candidates (or incumbents) and "who pulls their strings". We can (and do) help during elections and campaigns by manning the phones, working the polling areas, posting signage.
We also let those politicians know that we will work against them if their adgendas are "anti personal freedom".
 
But most important, continually going to the state capitol and meeting "one on one" with our Representatives to establish relationships even if we disagree.

Some of our recent victories have been that ABATE of MI is now involved in all state funded motorcycle safety and educational issues. The recent reduction of the MCCA insurance costs, and the inclusion of ABATE as a partner in our states "Office of Highway Planning and Safety Commission".

We have also met and discussed our issues with Federal Representatives in Washington and in their (our) home state. However ABATE is most effective statewide; nationally the MRF is more in tune to the politics of the Federal Legislators. I am also an assistant state representative for the MRF.

Everyone can indeed change the direction of this country's future if we get involved. 

[solo1]

I have 14 years of elected office under my belt.  A small city like mine doesn't have the 'party comes first' mentality. We had Dems and Repubs working side by side in council and we generally did what was best for the city's inhabitants.

I've been serving on the Board of Works and Safety,(appointed office) along with a Staunch Democrat and we get along.  I DO know how politics should work and I have the experience.  On the other hand, the national scene is a train wreck IMO.

Elected office isn't all that bad IF you work for the citizens and don't get greedy for power.

[dreamaker]

That is the thing that bounces and raddles in my head like a marble in a tin can, are these labels of the parties or groups that people indicate.  Like when you are in the military school, or military there is only one way to do things, their way. So these party or group labels give me the impression of the same form of mind set, like you are not allowed to debate or change. I agree it should always be in the best interest of the team or the people, and not use the Good Old Boy intimidation to influence ones decisions.

[Roidfingers]

I say go with no parties. So there is no dem against rep. Maybe that would put them in right frame of mind to focus on the people and not so much their party.

[fudgie]

I always thought of parties being kind of sheepish, them not supporting what they believe in, but supporting what the crowd tells them to. 

 

[DK]

I completely agree; best description of the current state of affairs I've come across anywhere.

Dan

Interesting discussion. I have always been interested in the political process and how it effects the general public. I used to think political parties were really just organizations that people would join if they were interested in holding public office. I think years ago there really wasn't too much difference between the parties. Two sets of elitists vying for our votes. Under those circumstances, it was natural to just pick whoever seemed to make the most sense for everybody from my point of view.
Seems to me it's totally different today. I think both parties have been hijacked by the lunatic fringe on both ends of the spectrum. I do feel the dems have moved farther to the left then the GOP has to the right. But that probably reflects the values of the people as well. After all, progressive thought often includes permissive behavior regardless of how seemingly foreign or abhorrent that behavior might have been previously. It follows that so called progressives would be open to just about anything new.
Conservatives on the other hand, tend to cling to the status quo.
I have never been able to figure out why it is so hard for either side to at least accept the best the other has to offer while rejecting the bad. This to me is the essence of compromise. Finding the middle ground.
It is what politics in my view used to be all about. It's how we as a nation arrived at decisions that were truly the best for all.
Somewhere we lost sight of this. Maybe it was Vietnam Nam. Maybe it was watergate. Maybe it was just people deciding they were only going to do what was best for them, and screw everyone else.

[BF]

Somewhere we lost sight of this. Maybe it was Vietnam Nam. Maybe it was watergate. Maybe it was just people deciding they were only going to do what was best for them, and screw everyone else.

That would be the Clintons. 

[MarcusS]

Of the people for the people. Not the parties and their political clubs.  If you and I lie to an official we go to jail. Politicians get rewarded for having the best lie and go to the whitehouse. A skunk will always be a skunk.  Calling it a slick black cat with a cool stripe does not mean it does not stink. Have you noticed our presidents white hair is starting to show? Google the meaning of the word Chicago and how it got it's name. It fits.

How about a peoples party?

Flush Washington. The voting habits of our elected officials are public record and all the things they vote on are available on line. Take the time to know what our elected officials are up to.