Widows and Orphans

[dinosnake]

Apples and oranges.

What "apple and oranges"?  The ones that appear in dreams?

As a non-believer, I'm constantly having to hear about how America is supposedly a "Judeo-Christian nation" and how our laws are supposedly based on "biblical values" and how, when those believers don't like what someone else is doing, throw all of that in their face.

So, from my perspective, Christians may play 'holier than thou' when it comes to other religions but they play many of the same games, pull many of the same cards.  The benefit here is that Western Christians usually don't play the violence card...but, then again, why don't we ask the dead abortion doctors about that, eh?

It is all a matter of perspective.  When this society plays according to your own viewpoints, there's no problem.  Since, for all too many people, this society does indeed play the Christian card, sometimes in many situations, most people don't complain.  But I'm not a Christian, I'm not Jewish, I'm not anything, yet I am constantly bombarded with people who believe their viewpoints, based on their religious values, should be the foundations of laws that apply to me.  For me, there's no difference from what Christians want to do and the Christians complain about, that Islam would impose "Sharia law" - from my perspective, there's really no difference at all.

Sorry about that.

If its so bad here,, why do you live here?   If anyone thinks its so bad in the USA then I will be the first to invite you to find your happiness elsewhere!

Yes, I agree!  With the religious Right constantly trying to change America to suit their own, personal interests, contrary to what is directly written in the Constitution, why can't they go someplace else and set up their Judeo-Christian law-based society?

[Wizzard]

Apples and oranges.

What "apple and oranges"?  The ones that appear in dreams?

As a non-believer, I'm constantly having to hear about how America is supposedly a "Judeo-Christian nation" and how our laws are supposedly based on "biblical values" and how, when those believers don't like what someone else is doing, throw all of that in their face.

So, from my perspective, Christians may play 'holier than thou' when it comes to other religions but they play many of the same games, pull many of the same cards.  The benefit here is that Western Christians usually don't play the violence card...but, then again, why don't we ask the dead abortion doctors about that, eh?

It is all a matter of perspective.  When this society plays according to your own viewpoints, there's no problem.  Since, for all too many people, this society does indeed play the Christian card, sometimes in many situations, most people don't complain.  But I'm not a Christian, I'm not Jewish, I'm not anything, yet I am constantly bombarded with people who believe their viewpoints, based on their religious values, should be the foundations of laws that apply to me.  For me, there's no difference from what Christians want to do and the Christians complain about, that Islam would impose "Sharia law" - from my perspective, there's really no difference at all.

Sorry about that.

If its so bad here,, why do you live here?   If anyone thinks its so bad in the USA then I will be the first to invite you to find your happiness elsewhere!

Yes, I agree!  With the religious Right constantly trying to change America to suit their own, personal interests, contrary to what is directly written in the Constitution, why can't they go someplace else and set up their Judeo-Christian law-based society?

Let me be the first to say it. You sound exactly like the person you don't want others to be.

[Serk]

And this is much different than punitive Islam law?  Not in my eyes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLHZmVHSP7A

[Valkorado]

dinosnake it sounds like our laws have had a pretty traumatic effect on you.   May I ask, which of our Judeo-Christian based laws do you find so oppressive and difficult to live under?

[dinosnake]

dinosnake it sounds like our laws have had a pretty traumatic effect on you.   May I ask, which of our Judeo-Christian based laws do you find so oppressive and difficult to live under?

Thank you for asking but with respect I prefer only to say that I am affected by some of these laws and that they have no real right to exist.  Like the 14th Amendment, we shouldn't have to fight for what our Constitution says we should have, yet, we do.  Constantly.  And it can be irritating to be considered a third-class citizen in many situations just because I'm not part of their little club and don't follow their little rules, which should only apply to themselves (and, therefore, I have absolutely  no problem with) but they insist on trying to make everyone else fall in line with.

[Valkorado]

dinosnake it sounds like our laws have had a pretty traumatic effect on you.   May I ask, which of our Judeo-Christian based laws do you find so oppressive and difficult to live under?

Thank you for asking but with respect I prefer only to say that I am affected by some of these laws and that they have no real right to exist.  Like the 14th Amendment, we shouldn't have to fight for what our Constitution says we should have, yet, we do.  Constantly.  And it can be irritating to be considered a third-class citizen in many situations just because I'm not part of their little club and don't follow their little rules, which should only apply to themselves (and, therefore, I have absolutely  no problem with) but they insist on trying to make everyone else fall in line with.

I won't pretend that I know your plight.  My point is that if we don't like their little rules (laws) at least we can freely speak out and even vote for change.  Things would be considerably different under Sharia Law.  So, yes, it really IS apples and oranges.

[Wizzard]

dinosnake it sounds like our laws have had a pretty traumatic effect on you.   May I ask, which of our Judeo-Christian based laws do you find so oppressive and difficult to live under?

Thank you for asking but with respect I prefer only to say that I am affected by some of these laws and that they have no real right to exist.  Like the 14th Amendment, we shouldn't have to fight for what our Constitution says we should have, yet, we do.  Constantly.  And it can be irritating to be considered a third-class citizen in many situations just because I'm not part of their little club and don't follow their little rules, which should only apply to themselves (and, therefore, I have absolutely  no problem with) but they insist on trying to make everyone else fall in line with.

I have said this before. "the fact that you disagree with me means nothing to me. The freedom to do it means everything to me".

[hotglue #43]

Pretty much sums it up......  "the extremist muslims kill. the moderate muslims are happy about the killings and the peaceful muslims send them money"

[3fan4life]

Respectfully, no, there is not much difference if you know some of the history of what our "Christian" society has done in the past.  Let's take for, example, gays:

You state that gays, in an Islamic country, would be thrown off of a building.  Not all that far away from our own past, Christian actions, where gays were, depending upon the particular society:

- forced into (either) permanent psychiatric wards or, sent to wards where they were "treated" by non-voluntary electro-shock therapy until they recanted their desires (United States and UK)

- non-voluntary lobotoby (Europe / Russia, United States)

- non-voluntary castration (United Kingdom, via chemical treatments)

Yes, that all happened.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conversion_therapy

In case you missed it, Alan Turing, the creator of modern computer science, committed suicide because the British court found him guilty of homosexuality and imposed chemical castration as punishment.  He couldn't deal with it and decided that death would be welcome.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Turing

And this is "better"?

Sorry.  There is a significant number of Christian fundamentalists out there who would recreate all that, and more - hey, we've got politicians openly stating their beliefs that women should 'stay in the kitchen' and get out of both politics and the workforce.  We shouldn't mention the forced medical exams in some states (thankfully deemed illegal, but after a court fight) on some pregnant women.

http://rhrealitycheck.org/article/2013/01/14/new-study-reveals-impact-post-roe-v-wade-anti-abortion-measures-on-women/

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/08/opinion/pregnant-and-no-civil-rights.html?smid=fb-share&_r=0

So, let's do some fact checking.

"Woman gives birth to twins after refusing c-section, one twin dies in stillbirth, mother charged with murder"
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/utah-c-section-mom-pleads-guilty/

Yep, true.

Women forced to have medical procedures:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2631088/Woman-suing-says-doctors-forced-C-section-against-perforated-bladder.html


"United States court orders woman into forced Cesarean section, woman and fetus die"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_re_A.C.
https://www.aclu.org/coercive-and-punitive-governmental-responses-womens-conduct-during-pregnancy

Yep, true

And this is much different than punitive Islam law?  Not in my eyes.

So let me get this straight.............

In your world Christians are EVIL and MUSLIMS are GOOD.

A Christian standing on a street corner with a sign telling you that you are going to hell because you don't believe in Jesus is traumatic.

A Muslim that wants to kill you because you're an infidel is OK.


You're entitled to your own opinion no matter how ludicrous it may seem to me.

I don't understand it and I never will, but you're entitled to it.

Me, I'll take the guy with the sign anyday. 

[Daddie O]

Apples and oranges.

What "apple and oranges"?  The ones that appear in dreams?

As a non-believer, I'm constantly having to hear about how America is supposedly a "Judeo-Christian nation" and how our laws are supposedly based on "biblical values" and how, when those believers don't like what someone else is doing, throw all of that in their face.

So, from my perspective, Christians may play 'holier than thou' when it comes to other religions but they play many of the same games, pull many of the same cards.  The benefit here is that Western Christians usually don't play the violence card...but, then again, why don't we ask the dead abortion doctors about that, eh?

It is all a matter of perspective.  When this society plays according to your own viewpoints, there's no problem.  Since, for all too many people, this society does indeed play the Christian card, sometimes in many situations, most people don't complain.  But I'm not a Christian, I'm not Jewish, I'm not anything, yet I am constantly bombarded with people who believe their viewpoints, based on their religious values, should be the foundations of laws that apply to me.  For me, there's no difference from what Christians want to do and the Christians complain about, that Islam would impose "Sharia law" - from my perspective, there's really no difference at all.

Sorry about that.

Remember that I was thrown out of the catholic church for failure to pay extortion money to them.
So how religious am I.
But, our country was founded on christian values. It was christians that arrived here from England. [ Well, not England but they were English]. Our founding fathers were Protestant and Diest.
We are also bound to live under our law, not multiple law. I can't imagine any rational person wanting sharia in this country. If you think there is chaos here now just wait until that takes hold.

This goes to the point the dinosnake was trying to make.  The whole "Our founding fathers were Protestant and Diest" crap.  Our founding fathers came here why?  They were fleeing religious persecution!  By whom?  Christians!  So they set up this country so people could be free of that persecution for religion by religion.  Yet here most of you are talking about America being a Christian country, and that those that move here have to have Christian values?  That is about as un-American a sentiment as there ever could be.

[Wizzard]

Apples and oranges.

What "apple and oranges"?  The ones that appear in dreams?

As a non-believer, I'm constantly having to hear about how America is supposedly a "Judeo-Christian nation" and how our laws are supposedly based on "biblical values" and how, when those believers don't like what someone else is doing, throw all of that in their face.

So, from my perspective, Christians may play 'holier than thou' when it comes to other religions but they play many of the same games, pull many of the same cards.  The benefit here is that Western Christians usually don't play the violence card...but, then again, why don't we ask the dead abortion doctors about that, eh?

It is all a matter of perspective.  When this society plays according to your own viewpoints, there's no problem.  Since, for all too many people, this society does indeed play the Christian card, sometimes in many situations, most people don't complain.  But I'm not a Christian, I'm not Jewish, I'm not anything, yet I am constantly bombarded with people who believe their viewpoints, based on their religious values, should be the foundations of laws that apply to me.  For me, there's no difference from what Christians want to do and the Christians complain about, that Islam would impose "Sharia law" - from my perspective, there's really no difference at all.

Sorry about that.

Remember that I was thrown out of the catholic church for failure to pay extortion money to them.
So how religious am I.
But, our country was founded on christian values. It was christians that arrived here from England. [ Well, not England but they were English]. Our founding fathers were Protestant and Diest.
We are also bound to live under our law, not multiple law. I can't imagine any rational person wanting sharia in this country. If you think there is chaos here now just wait until that takes hold.

This goes to the point the dinosnake was trying to make.  The whole "Our founding fathers were Protestant and Diest" crap.  Our founding fathers came here why?  They were fleeing religious persecution!  By whom?  Christians!  So they set up this country so people could be free of that persecution for religion by religion.  Yet here most of you are talking about America being a Christian country, and that those that move here have to have Christian values?  That is about as un-American a sentiment as there ever could be.

I could care less what religion you are. But if your religion tells you to harm me or mine then you can bet your ass I am going to fight back.

[Patrick]

Apples and oranges.

What "apple and oranges"?  The ones that appear in dreams?

As a non-believer, I'm constantly having to hear about how America is supposedly a "Judeo-Christian nation" and how our laws are supposedly based on "biblical values" and how, when those believers don't like what someone else is doing, throw all of that in their face.

So, from my perspective, Christians may play 'holier than thou' when it comes to other religions but they play many of the same games, pull many of the same cards.  The benefit here is that Western Christians usually don't play the violence card...but, then again, why don't we ask the dead abortion doctors about that, eh?

It is all a matter of perspective.  When this society plays according to your own viewpoints, there's no problem.  Since, for all too many people, this society does indeed play the Christian card, sometimes in many situations, most people don't complain.  But I'm not a Christian, I'm not Jewish, I'm not anything, yet I am constantly bombarded with people who believe their viewpoints, based on their religious values, should be the foundations of laws that apply to me.  For me, there's no difference from what Christians want to do and the Christians complain about, that Islam would impose "Sharia law" - from my perspective, there's really no difference at all.

Sorry about that.

Remember that I was thrown out of the catholic church for failure to pay extortion money to them.
So how religious am I.
But, our country was founded on christian values. It was christians that arrived here from England. [ Well, not England but they were English]. Our founding fathers were Protestant and Diest.
We are also bound to live under our law, not multiple law. I can't imagine any rational person wanting sharia in this country. If you think there is chaos here now just wait until that takes hold.

This goes to the point the dinosnake was trying to make.  The whole "Our founding fathers were Protestant and Diest" crap.  Our founding fathers came here why?  They were fleeing religious persecution!  By whom?  Christians!  So they set up this country so people could be free of that persecution for religion by religion.  Yet here most of you are talking about America being a Christian country, and that those that move here have to have Christian values?  That is about as un-American a sentiment as there ever could be.

My gosh. Of course the the separatists were fleeing persecution from christians, not just any  christians, catholics. The catholic church controlled about every portion of life then and were brutal to live under.
That fact that our Founding Fathers were Protestant and Diest is not crap, whether one likes that or not makes no difference, its the truth.
This country was founded on christian values, again, like it or not.
We are a country of laws, like it or not. These laws are not sharia laws, nor, should we be subjected to them.
Maybe it should also be mentioned that one of our Founding Fathers side-stepped congress and declared war on N African muslim pirates which led to our formation of the Marines. So our country started fighting muslims centuries ago and wasn't about to form this country around any such religion.

[MP]

Well DaddieO, since you truly believe there is no difference, and I do believe YOU believe, that, I have a challenge for you.

Go to some street corner in Syria, Iran, Iraq, etc, and spout off the same language about THEIR religion, as you do here about Christians.

Let us know what happens.  That is, IF you can find your head.

[old2soon]

Well DaddieO, since you truly believe there is no difference, and I do believe YOU believe, that, I have a challenge for you.

Go to some street corner in Syria, Iran, Iraq, etc, and spout off the same language about THEIR religion, as you do here about Christians.

Let us know what happens.  That is, IF you can find your head.

                RIDE SAFE.

[Wizzard]

Well DaddieO, since you truly believe there is no difference, and I do believe YOU believe, that, I have a challenge for you.

Go to some street corner in Syria, Iran, Iraq, etc, and spout off the same language about THEIR religion, as you do here about Christians.

Let us know what happens.  That is, IF you can find your head.

                RIDE SAFE.

Ditto

[Patrick]

Well DaddieO, since you truly believe there is no difference, and I do believe YOU believe, that, I have a challenge for you.

Go to some street corner in Syria, Iran, Iraq, etc, and spout off the same language about THEIR religion, as you do here about Christians.

Let us know what happens.  That is, IF you can find your head.

                RIDE SAFE.

Ditto

Heck, even his own liberal senator is against the import of refugees and realizes the impact of isis.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Well DaddieO, since you truly believe there is no difference, and I do believe YOU believe, that, I have a challenge for you.

Go to some street corner in Syria, Iran, Iraq, etc, and spout off the same language about THEIR religion, as you do here about Christians.

Let us know what happens.  That is, IF you can find your head.

                RIDE SAFE.

Ditto

I understand you guys don't like Daddie-O. But you really need to read what he said not what you want to think he said. Nowhere in his response did he say anything remotely comparable to "There is no difference between the terrorists and us". He did say that it is unamerican to descriminate based on religion. You guys are very quick to defend the 2nd Amendment, but the rest of them not so much.

[Valkorado]

Well DaddieO, since you truly believe there is no difference, and I do believe YOU believe, that, I have a challenge for you.

Go to some street corner in Syria, Iran, Iraq, etc, and spout off the same language about THEIR religion, as you do here about Christians.

Let us know what happens.  That is, IF you can find your head.

                RIDE SAFE.

Ditto

I understand you guys don't like Daddie-O. But you really need to read what he said not what you want to think he said. Nowhere in his response did he say anything remotely comparable to "There is no difference between the terrorists and us". He did say that it is unamerican to descriminate based on religion. You guys are very quick to defend the 2nd Amendment, but the rest of them not so much.

Oh, pshaw.  I think most (all?) of us realize we do not discriminate in this country based on religion.  Are we anti-Catholic because we don't welcome the illegals coming across the southern border, the majority of whom are Catholic?

[Wizzard]

Well DaddieO, since you truly believe there is no difference, and I do believe YOU believe, that, I have a challenge for you.

Go to some street corner in Syria, Iran, Iraq, etc, and spout off the same language about THEIR religion, as you do here about Christians.

Let us know what happens.  That is, IF you can find your head.

               RIDE SAFE.

Ditto

I understand you guys don't like Daddie-O. But you really need to read what he said not what you want to think he said. Nowhere in his response did he say anything remotely comparable to "There is no difference between the terrorists and us". He did say that it is unamerican to descriminate based on religion. You guys are very quick to defend the 2nd Amendment, but the rest of them not so much.

You are correct. He insinuated it by his statements, however if he did as the above says in certain countries, the results would be as stated. I never once said that those who move here should have christian values either. He got that from somewhere. I simply stated that if they moved here and want to harm christians,or anyone else in the name of their religion then I was against them moving here.

[Wizzard]

Respectfully, no, there is not much difference if you know some of the history of what our "Christian" society has done in the past.  Let's take for, example, gays:

You state that gays, in an Islamic country, would be thrown off of a building.  Not all that far away from our own past, Christian actions, where gays were, depending upon the particular society:

- forced into (either) permanent psychiatric wards or, sent to wards where they were "treated" by non-voluntary electro-shock therapy until they recanted their desires (United States and UK)

- non-voluntary lobotoby (Europe / Russia, United States)

- non-voluntary castration (United Kingdom, via chemical treatments)

Yes, that all happened.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conversion_therapy

In case you missed it, Alan Turing, the creator of modern computer science, committed suicide because the British court found him guilty of homosexuality and imposed chemical castration as punishment.  He couldn't deal with it and decided that death would be welcome.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Turing

And this is "better"?

Sorry.  There is a significant number of Christian fundamentalists out there who would recreate all that, and more - hey, we've got politicians openly stating their beliefs that women should 'stay in the kitchen' and get out of both politics and the workforce.  We shouldn't mention the forced medical exams in some states (thankfully deemed illegal, but after a court fight) on some pregnant women.

http://rhrealitycheck.org/article/2013/01/14/new-study-reveals-impact-post-roe-v-wade-anti-abortion-measures-on-women/

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/08/opinion/pregnant-and-no-civil-rights.html?smid=fb-share&_r=0

So, let's do some fact checking.

"Woman gives birth to twins after refusing c-section, one twin dies in stillbirth, mother charged with murder"
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/utah-c-section-mom-pleads-guilty/

Yep, true.

Women forced to have medical procedures:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2631088/Woman-suing-says-doctors-forced-C-section-against-perforated-bladder.html


"United States court orders woman into forced Cesarean section, woman and fetus die"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_re_A.C.
https://www.aclu.org/coercive-and-punitive-governmental-responses-womens-conduct-during-pregnancy

Yep, true

And this is much different than punitive Islam law?  Not in my eyes.

This is the quote that says there is not much difference. I think he should go live in Syria for awhile and see the difference.

[Daddie O]

Apples and oranges.

What "apple and oranges"?  The ones that appear in dreams?

As a non-believer, I'm constantly having to hear about how America is supposedly a "Judeo-Christian nation" and how our laws are supposedly based on "biblical values" and how, when those believers don't like what someone else is doing, throw all of that in their face.

So, from my perspective, Christians may play 'holier than thou' when it comes to other religions but they play many of the same games, pull many of the same cards.  The benefit here is that Western Christians usually don't play the violence card...but, then again, why don't we ask the dead abortion doctors about that, eh?

It is all a matter of perspective.  When this society plays according to your own viewpoints, there's no problem.  Since, for all too many people, this society does indeed play the Christian card, sometimes in many situations, most people don't complain.  But I'm not a Christian, I'm not Jewish, I'm not anything, yet I am constantly bombarded with people who believe their viewpoints, based on their religious values, should be the foundations of laws that apply to me.  For me, there's no difference from what Christians want to do and the Christians complain about, that Islam would impose "Sharia law" - from my perspective, there's really no difference at all.

Sorry about that.

Remember that I was thrown out of the catholic church for failure to pay extortion money to them.
So how religious am I.
But, our country was founded on christian values. It was christians that arrived here from England. [ Well, not England but they were English]. Our founding fathers were Protestant and Diest.
We are also bound to live under our law, not multiple law. I can't imagine any rational person wanting sharia in this country. If you think there is chaos here now just wait until that takes hold.

This goes to the point the dinosnake was trying to make.  The whole "Our founding fathers were Protestant and Diest" crap.  Our founding fathers came here why?  They were fleeing religious persecution!  By whom?  Christians!  So they set up this country so people could be free of that persecution for religion by religion.  Yet here most of you are talking about America being a Christian country, and that those that move here have to have Christian values?  That is about as un-American a sentiment as there ever could be.

My gosh. Of course the the separatists were fleeing persecution from christians, not just any  christians, catholics. The catholic church controlled about every portion of life then and were brutal to live under.
That fact that our Founding Fathers were Protestant and Diest is not crap, whether one likes that or not makes no difference, its the truth.
This country was founded on christian values, again, like it or not.
We are a country of laws, like it or not. These laws are not sharia laws, nor, should we be subjected to them.
Maybe it should also be mentioned that one of our Founding Fathers side-stepped congress and declared war on N African muslim pirates which led to our formation of the Marines. So our country started fighting muslims centuries ago and wasn't about to form this country around any such religion.

I want to be subjected to sharia law about as much as I want to be subjected to Christian law, which is to say "no thanks".  Keep your religion to yourself, I'm not a part of it.  That's one of the great things about America, I don't have to be subject to your Christian laws.  I don't have to decide whether I prefer Shiite or Sunni, Catholic or Protestant, when it comes to civil and criminal law.  Christians don't even follow most of their own religious laws anyway, just like most Jews or Muslims don't follow theirs.  They pick and choose which ones suit them.  The ones that pick the laws that say to destroy but ignore the laws that proscribe peace are considered "radicals".  To insinuate that any religion as a whole says to destroy everyone else is a misrepresentation.  By the way, ever heard of the Spanish Inquisition?  The Crusades?  The Coliseum?  Christians have plenty of blood on their hands.  I've heard plenty of Christians suggest we should just bomb the entire Middle East to bits, and leave it one big radioactive glass bowl.

Christianity is an Abrahamic religion.  Do you Christians remember the story of Abraham in the desert, inviting strange Arabs into his tent and washing their feet?  Emulate that philosophy.  To be Christian is to attempt to be Christ-like in behavior and deeds.  Do you think Jesus would turn away refugees?  What if the refugee slapped him across his face?  Would he kill the refugee or turn the other cheek?  You see, most of the Christians here in this forum like to pick and choose which stories and laws to follow.  I say those that do so are "radical" Christians.

[MP]

I am getting muddy. I will let the rest of you keep wrestling. There is no end with someone who believes we are just as bad as the terrorists.

[Patrick]

Apples and oranges.

What "apple and oranges"?  The ones that appear in dreams?

As a non-believer, I'm constantly having to hear about how America is supposedly a "Judeo-Christian nation" and how our laws are supposedly based on "biblical values" and how, when those believers don't like what someone else is doing, throw all of that in their face.

So, from my perspective, Christians may play 'holier than thou' when it comes to other religions but they play many of the same games, pull many of the same cards.  The benefit here is that Western Christians usually don't play the violence card...but, then again, why don't we ask the dead abortion doctors about that, eh?

It is all a matter of perspective.  When this society plays according to your own viewpoints, there's no problem.  Since, for all too many people, this society does indeed play the Christian card, sometimes in many situations, most people don't complain.  But I'm not a Christian, I'm not Jewish, I'm not anything, yet I am constantly bombarded with people who believe their viewpoints, based on their religious values, should be the foundations of laws that apply to me.  For me, there's no difference from what Christians want to do and the Christians complain about, that Islam would impose "Sharia law" - from my perspective, there's really no difference at all.

Sorry about that.

Remember that I was thrown out of the catholic church for failure to pay extortion money to them.
So how religious am I.
But, our country was founded on christian values. It was christians that arrived here from England. [ Well, not England but they were English]. Our founding fathers were Protestant and Diest.
We are also bound to live under our law, not multiple law. I can't imagine any rational person wanting sharia in this country. If you think there is chaos here now just wait until that takes hold.

This goes to the point the dinosnake was trying to make.  The whole "Our founding fathers were Protestant and Diest" crap.  Our founding fathers came here why?  They were fleeing religious persecution!  By whom?  Christians!  So they set up this country so people could be free of that persecution for religion by religion.  Yet here most of you are talking about America being a Christian country, and that those that move here have to have Christian values?  That is about as un-American a sentiment as there ever could be.

My gosh. Of course the the separatists were fleeing persecution from christians, not just any  christians, catholics. The catholic church controlled about every portion of life then and were brutal to live under.
That fact that our Founding Fathers were Protestant and Diest is not crap, whether one likes that or not makes no difference, its the truth.
This country was founded on christian values, again, like it or not.
We are a country of laws, like it or not. These laws are not sharia laws, nor, should we be subjected to them.
Maybe it should also be mentioned that one of our Founding Fathers side-stepped congress and declared war on N African muslim pirates which led to our formation of the Marines. So our country started fighting muslims centuries ago and wasn't about to form this country around any such religion.

I want to be subjected to sharia law about as much as I want to be subjected to Christian law, which is to say "no thanks".  Keep your religion to yourself, I'm not a part of it.  That's one of the great things about America, I don't have to be subject to your Christian laws.  I don't have to decide whether I prefer Shiite or Sunni, Catholic or Protestant, when it comes to civil and criminal law.  Christians don't even follow most of their own religious laws anyway, just like most Jews or Muslims don't follow theirs.  They pick and choose which ones suit them.  The ones that pick the laws that say to destroy but ignore the laws that proscribe peace are considered "radicals".  To insinuate that any religion as a whole says to destroy everyone else is a misrepresentation.  By the way, ever heard of the Spanish Inquisition?  The Crusades?  The Coliseum?  Christians have plenty of blood on their hands.  I've heard plenty of Christians suggest we should just bomb the entire Middle East to bits, and leave it one big radioactive glass bowl.

Christianity is an Abrahamic religion.  Do you Christians remember the story of Abraham in the desert, inviting strange Arabs into his tent and washing their feet?  Emulate that philosophy.  To be Christian is to attempt to be Christ-like in behavior and deeds.  Do you think Jesus would turn away refugees?  What if the refugee slapped him across his face?  Would he kill the refugee or turn the other cheek?  You see, most of the Christians here in this forum like to pick and choose which stories and laws to follow.  I say those that do so are "radical" Christians.

You don't have to try and teach me anything about history. I'm afraid you'll come up lacking.

And I don't know where you're coming from if you're trying to call me religious. If you are, you haven't been paying attention.

I agree with MP. I'll go rinse off now.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Respectfully, no, there is not much difference if you know some of the history of what our "Christian" society has done in the past.  Let's take for, example, gays:

You state that gays, in an Islamic country, would be thrown off of a building.  Not all that far away from our own past, Christian actions, where gays were, depending upon the particular society:

- forced into (either) permanent psychiatric wards or, sent to wards where they were "treated" by non-voluntary electro-shock therapy until they recanted their desires (United States and UK)

- non-voluntary lobotoby (Europe / Russia, United States)

- non-voluntary castration (United Kingdom, via chemical treatments)

Yes, that all happened.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conversion_therapy

In case you missed it, Alan Turing, the creator of modern computer science, committed suicide because the British court found him guilty of homosexuality and imposed chemical castration as punishment.  He couldn't deal with it and decided that death would be welcome.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Turing

And this is "better"?

Sorry.  There is a significant number of Christian fundamentalists out there who would recreate all that, and more - hey, we've got politicians openly stating their beliefs that women should 'stay in the kitchen' and get out of both politics and the workforce.  We shouldn't mention the forced medical exams in some states (thankfully deemed illegal, but after a court fight) on some pregnant women.

http://rhrealitycheck.org/article/2013/01/14/new-study-reveals-impact-post-roe-v-wade-anti-abortion-measures-on-women/

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/08/opinion/pregnant-and-no-civil-rights.html?smid=fb-share&_r=0

So, let's do some fact checking.

"Woman gives birth to twins after refusing c-section, one twin dies in stillbirth, mother charged with murder"
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/utah-c-section-mom-pleads-guilty/

Yep, true.

Women forced to have medical procedures:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2631088/Woman-suing-says-doctors-forced-C-section-against-perforated-bladder.html


"United States court orders woman into forced Cesarean section, woman and fetus die"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_re_A.C.
https://www.aclu.org/coercive-and-punitive-governmental-responses-womens-conduct-during-pregnancy

Yep, true

And this is much different than punitive Islam law?  Not in my eyes.

This is the quote that says there is not much difference. I think he should go live in Syria for awhile and see the difference.

Wizzard, if you are referring to that last statement, that was dinosnake that posted that. Maybe all of us "liberals" look alike.   And in my opinion that statement is a long way from saying Syria and America are the same.

[fudgie]

You guys are very quick to defend the 2nd Amendment, but the rest of them not so much.

Yes, cause without it, there wouldn't be other amendments.

[The emperor has no clothes]

You guys are very quick to defend the 2nd Amendment, but the rest of them not so much.

Yes, cause without it, there wouldn't be other amendments.

They are all important. 

[Moonshot_1]

You guys are very quick to defend the 2nd Amendment, but the rest of them not so much.

Yes, cause without it, there wouldn't be other amendments.

They are all important. 

And worth defending wouldn't you say?

[The emperor has no clothes]

You guys are very quick to defend the 2nd Amendment, but the rest of them not so much.

Yes, cause without it, there wouldn't be other amendments.

They are all important. 

And worth defending wouldn't you say?

I say they are ALL worth defending. 

[3fan4life]

Christianity is an Abrahamic religion.  Do you Christians remember the story of Abraham in the desert, inviting strange Arabs into his tent and washing their feet?  Emulate that philosophy.  To be Christian is to attempt to be Christ-like in behavior and deeds.  Do you think Jesus would turn away refugees?  What if the refugee slapped him across his face?  Would he kill the refugee or turn the other cheek?  You see, most of the Christians here in this forum like to pick and choose which stories and laws to follow.  I say those that do so are "radical" Christians.

[Patrick]

I guess its all mute at this point. Syrian refugees have already been placed in this country, and, the state officials have not been notified. Officials have recently found this out and have been using catholic charities to find their locations.

[The emperor has no clothes]

I guess its all mute at this point. Syrian refugees have already been placed in this country, and, the state officials have not been notified. Officials have recently found this out and have been using catholic charities to find their locations.

Rinsed so soon ?

[fudgie]

I gotta question. The ACLU has filed a lawsuit with Indiana's governor about him denying placement. How? I thght the ACLU represented Americans. Hence the "A".

[Wizzard]

Apples and oranges.

What "apple and oranges"?  The ones that appear in dreams?

As a non-believer, I'm constantly having to hear about how America is supposedly a "Judeo-Christian nation" and how our laws are supposedly based on "biblical values" and how, when those believers don't like what someone else is doing, throw all of that in their face.

So, from my perspective, Christians may play 'holier than thou' when it comes to other religions but they play many of the same games, pull many of the same cards.  The benefit here is that Western Christians usually don't play the violence card...but, then again, why don't we ask the dead abortion doctors about that, eh?

It is all a matter of perspective.  When this society plays according to your own viewpoints, there's no problem.  Since, for all too many people, this society does indeed play the Christian card, sometimes in many situations, most people don't complain.  But I'm not a Christian, I'm not Jewish, I'm not anything, yet I am constantly bombarded with people who believe their viewpoints, based on their religious values, should be the foundations of laws that apply to me.  For me, there's no difference from what Christians want to do and the Christians complain about, that Islam would impose "Sharia law" - from my perspective, there's really no difference at all.

Sorry about that.

Remember that I was thrown out of the catholic church for failure to pay extortion money to them.
So how religious am I.
But, our country was founded on christian values. It was christians that arrived here from England. [ Well, not England but they were English]. Our founding fathers were Protestant and Diest.
We are also bound to live under our law, not multiple law. I can't imagine any rational person wanting sharia in this country. If you think there is chaos here now just wait until that takes hold.

This goes to the point the dinosnake was trying to make.  The whole "Our founding fathers were Protestant and Diest" crap.  Our founding fathers came here why?  They were fleeing religious persecution!  By whom?  Christians!  So they set up this country so people could be free of that persecution for religion by religion.  Yet here most of you are talking about America being a Christian country, and that those that move here have to have Christian values?  That is about as un-American a sentiment as there ever could be.

My gosh. Of course the the separatists were fleeing persecution from christians, not just any  christians, catholics. The catholic church controlled about every portion of life then and were brutal to live under.
That fact that our Founding Fathers were Protestant and Diest is not crap, whether one likes that or not makes no difference, its the truth.
This country was founded on christian values, again, like it or not.
We are a country of laws, like it or not. These laws are not sharia laws, nor, should we be subjected to them.
Maybe it should also be mentioned that one of our Founding Fathers side-stepped congress and declared war on N African muslim pirates which led to our formation of the Marines. So our country started fighting muslims centuries ago and wasn't about to form this country around any such religion.

I want to be subjected to sharia law about as much as I want to be subjected to Christian law, which is to say "no thanks".  Keep your religion to yourself, I'm not a part of it.  That's one of the great things about America, I don't have to be subject to your Christian laws.  I don't have to decide whether I prefer Shiite or Sunni, Catholic or Protestant, when it comes to civil and criminal law.  Christians don't even follow most of their own religious laws anyway, just like most Jews or Muslims don't follow theirs.  They pick and choose which ones suit them.  The ones that pick the laws that say to destroy but ignore the laws that proscribe peace are considered "radicals".  To insinuate that any religion as a whole says to destroy everyone else is a misrepresentation.  By the way, ever heard of the Spanish Inquisition?  The Crusades?  The Coliseum?  Christians have plenty of blood on their hands.  I've heard plenty of Christians suggest we should just bomb the entire Middle East to bits, and leave it one big radioactive glass bowl.

Christianity is an Abrahamic religion.  Do you Christians remember the story of Abraham in the desert, inviting strange Arabs into his tent and washing their feet?  Emulate that philosophy.  To be Christian is to attempt to be Christ-like in behavior and deeds.  Do you think Jesus would turn away refugees?  What if the refugee slapped him across his face?  Would he kill the refugee or turn the other cheek?  You see, most of the Christians here in this forum like to pick and choose which stories and laws to follow.  I say those that do so are "radical" Christians.

I find it quite ironic that the guy who spouts about all Christians being the same and uses phrases like "you christians" and "most christians" is the very one that does not want all Muslims lumped into one group and accuses "you christians" of doing just that. It seems that somewhere "christians" have forced something onto him. How about how the muslims wiped out tons of Hindu's in India. there are many religions in this world and seems to me Daddio you have particular animosity for christians.
Do you defend radical Islam? Do you think there are Christans as a group in this country that have commited the atrocities that we have witnessed abroad?

[Daddie O]

I don't defend any religion, nor do I bear animosity towards one more than another.  What I do bear animosity towards is someone trying to impose their religion on me.  I don't consider America to be a "Christian" country, even though many Americans are Christian.  I don't think the basis for making a decision on whether or not a person can be American, or allowed to be a refugee here from another country should be what religion they are.

[Wizzard]

I don't defend any religion, nor do I bear animosity towards one more than another.  What I do bear animosity towards is someone trying to impose their religion on me.  I don't consider America to be a "Christian" country, even though many Americans are Christian.  I don't think the basis for making a decision on whether or not a person can be American, or allowed to be a refugee here from another country should be what religion they are.

If it was Christian's committing the atrocities abroad and the refugees were coming from there would you feel any different? Just wondering?

[Wizzard]

First off, I am a Christian and proud of it.
I have been forced to accept same sex marriage.
I have been forced to accept abortion
I  have been forced to accept birth control being give to my kids at school.
The list goes on. All things I do not like.

But I have been relatively silent about it and reflected it on my vote.
Whom have I forced anything on? No one. In fact it was all forced on me.
I just take solace in the fact that my promise is above all this crap.


Who is forcing who? What was forced on you?

[Daddie O]

I don't defend any religion, nor do I bear animosity towards one more than another.  What I do bear animosity towards is someone trying to impose their religion on me.  I don't consider America to be a "Christian" country, even though many Americans are Christian.  I don't think the basis for making a decision on whether or not a person can be American, or allowed to be a refugee here from another country should be what religion they are.

If it was Christian's committing the atrocities abroad and the refugees were coming from there would you feel any different? Just wondering?

Christians have committed atrocities here in America, let alone elsewhere.  Cross burning, lynchings, KKK, killing doctors and bombing abortion clinics, Oklahoma City bombing, etc.  Neo-nazis, Aryan Brotherhood, and skinheads are avowed Christians as well.  You don't see me suggesting Christians should be shot and thrown into a river do you?  I think anyone being persecuted, at fear for their lives, should be given an opportunity for asylum.  As I said before, I don't think asking what religion they are should be part of the equation.  This goes for Christians, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, or Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

[Daddie O]

First off, I am a Christian and proud of it.
I have been forced to accept same sex marriage.
I have been forced to accept abortion
I  have been forced to accept birth control being give to my kids at school.
The list goes on. All things I do not like.

But I have been relatively silent about it and reflected it on my vote.
Whom have I forced anything on? No one. In fact it was all forced on me.
I just take solace in the fact that my promise is above all this crap.


Who is forcing who? What was forced on you?

Christian belief system has been forced on all Americans.  These things you stated that you have been forced to accept.  You have been forced to accept them recently.  The rest of us had been forced to accept the "Christian" values of no gay marriage, no abortion, no birth control, etc for hundreds of years.  In fact Christians have been fighting to impose those values since time immemorial.  How many Christians put anti gay marriage initiatives on the ballot, and voted them into law (until overturned by the Supreme Court).  They are still fighting against laws requiring businesses to provide insurance that covers birth control and abortion.  They are still trying to defund Planned Parenthood.  All because they believe it "goes against their religion."

[Wizzard]

Well try being an openly gay muslim and see where that gets you! How do you feel about that?

And because I have been forced to accept things recently is ok with you eh?

And I am not complaining. These issues were voted on, but you are complaining because of how they were voted on in the past.

[Crackerborn]

I don't defend any religion, nor do I bear animosity towards one more than another.  What I do bear animosity towards is someone trying to impose their religion on me.  I don't consider America to be a "Christian" country, even though many Americans are Christian.  I don't think the basis for making a decision on whether or not a person can be American, or allowed to be a refugee here from another country should be what religion they are.

Before you criticize the judeo-christion legal system our country was founded upon too harshly, perhaps you should consider a contract position in Saudi Arabia, Iran, Kuwait, Egypt, or another country that is predominantly Muslim and many laws have not been changed since the sixth century. Some of the countries have modernized to some extent. In Saudi Arabia when they now stone an adulteress to death, they use a dump truck to supply the stones for the public execution. Did I mention that it is the public throwing the stones? Once you leave the western compounds, you must abide by their laws or face the consequences as decided by the mullahs. There is no separation of church and state in most of the middle East, the church runs the state. Be home before the evening prayers or expect to join in since the priests can really be a pain in the back of your head with their rods, especially in the rural areas.

For someone that espouses that freedom from religious harassment be a major concern, you have no idea what you are inviting in.

Any that wish this blight upon humanity to be welcomed to our shores, really should get to know what it is they are embracing.