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Author Topic: the government controls every inch of airspace in America.  (Read 445 times)
98valk
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Posts: 13661


South Jersey


« on: January 13, 2016, 06:52:59 PM »

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2016/01/13/you-may-be-powerless-to-stop-a-drone-from-hovering-over-your-own-yard/

But common law long held that landowners' rights went “all the way to Heaven.” And today, it’s clear that they have some rights.

William Merideth had just finished grilling dinner for his family when he saw a drone hovering over his land. So he did what he said any Kentuckian might do — he grabbed his Benelli M1 Super 90 shotgun, took aim and unleashed three rounds of birdshot.

“The only people I’ve heard anything negative from are liberals that don’t want us having guns and people who own drones,” said the truck company owner, now a self-described “drone slayer.” Downing the quadcopter, which had a camera, was a way to assert his right to privacy and property, he said.

The drone was owned by John Boggs, a hobbyist, who told authorities he was trying to take pictures of the scenery. He argues in a lawsuit filed this month in U.S. District Court in Louisville that Merideth did not have the right to shoot the craft down because the government controls every inch of airspace in America.

For decades, the issue of who controls the nation’s air didn’t matter much to everyday Americans. Planes, after all, typically must stay hundreds of feet above ground while in the air.

But drones that can take off or land almost anywhere -- and the tech companies who dream of using them to deliver goods to your front porch -- are igniting a debate over who exactly owns the air just above ordinary homes and lawns.

“There is gray area in terms of how far your property rights extend,” said Jeramie Scott, national security counsel at the Electronic Privacy Information Center. “It’s going to need to be addressed sooner rather than later as drones are integrated into the national airspace.”

The issue is becoming more urgent as drones are crowding America’s skies: The Consumer Technology Association estimated 700,000 were sold last year.

According to the Federal Aviation Administration, every inch above the tip of your grass blades is the government’s jurisdiction. “The FAA is responsible for the safety and management of U.S. airspace from the ground up,” said an agency spokesman, echoing rules laid out on its website.

But common law long held that landowners' rights went “all the way to Heaven.” And today, it’s clear that they have some rights.

After all, developers and even cities sometimes sell off rights to the air above their buildings. And if a neighbor has a tree limb hanging over your fence, you generally can chop it off.

The rise of air travel initially sparked questions about where those rights end and flyable space begins. The issue reached the Supreme Court during the 1940s in a case called United States v. Causby after a farmer brought a suit against the government over low-flying military planes' taking off and landing from a nearby airport. The planes, he said, forced him out of the chicken business -- and he wanted compensation.

The Court gave it to him -- and said that a property owner owns “at least as much of the space above the ground as he can occupy or use in connection with the land.”
« Last Edit: January 13, 2016, 06:54:54 PM by 98valk (aka CA) » Logged

1998 Std/Tourer, 2007 DR200SE, 1981 CB900C  10speed
1973 Duster 340 4-speed rare A/C, 2001 F250 4x4 7.3L, 6sp

"Our Constitution was made only for a Moral and Religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the goverment of any other."
John Adams 10/11/1798
Jess from VA
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Posts: 30866


No VA


« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2016, 07:04:12 PM »

Last time I looked at this (briefly), the common law of ownership to the heavens, had been reduced to 500 feet.

Now good cameras don't have a problem with 500 feet, but I won't be shooting at that kind of distance.

But up in my face in my backyard is a different story...... though I'd be ninja-like and try very hard not to be filmed with my 12 gauge and war face working. 

Back in the USAF, I defended a few fellows who did their crimes on camera.  Hey airman, I'm pretty good, but I'm not foking Houdini.
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Patrick
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Posts: 15433


VRCC 4474

Largo Florida


« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2016, 05:15:42 AM »

I don't think the FAA statement is correct. I'm with Jess. There are some areas where where controlled airspace goes to ground level, but, in the vast majority of places its 1200ft or 500ft.


I guess I should have added that other government agencies also control airspace [ or, just plain space or area].
« Last Edit: January 14, 2016, 06:45:23 AM by Patrick » Logged
Pappy!
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Posts: 5710


Central Florida - Eustis


« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2016, 06:35:17 AM »

In the FAA rule book there is "controlled airspace" and "uncontrolled airspace".
On the flight maps these areas of controlled airspace are very clearly marked. Usually surrounding large airports, military installations, national security areas, and so on.
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WilliamRS
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Posts: 316


« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2016, 08:56:21 AM »

airspace may not be the  real issue here.

I saw an article a while back that said that it is illegal to interfer with an aircraft in flight and suggested that drones fit the loose federal definition of 'aircraft'  if true, there is potential for serious federal fines and jail time.



another issue would be liability.  If I disable someones drone that is in flight and that drone then falls and injures someone or destroys someones property I assume that there is going to be a legal sh*tstorm to deal with that is not covered by any of my current insurance plans.
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Tx Bohemian
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Posts: 2283

Victoria, Tx


« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2016, 09:24:45 AM »

The drone was owned by John Boggs, a hobbyist, who told authorities he was trying to take pictures of the scenery.
Wonder what kind of scenery?
Does Merideth have a hot wife or daughter sunbathing...
We might need pictures!

He argues in a lawsuit filed that Merideth did not have the right to shoot the craft down because the government controls every inch of airspace in America.

If that's his defense my question is did Boggs get rights from the government to fly his craft in the airspace?
Maybe some pilots on this board can clear up the "rights to airspace" question.
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Remember, if you are on a bike and wreck with a car no matter how "in the right" you are you are going to lose. RIDE LIKE EVERBODY IS OUT TO GET YOU!!
Al
Moonshot_1
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Posts: 5142


Me and my Valk at Freedom Rock


« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2016, 09:52:33 AM »

If someone can fly a drone in the airspace above and around my property, why can't I fly little lead pellets in the airspace above and around my property? If there happens to be a collision then the drone pilot should have the responsibility to inform and seek permission to enter such airspace. I mean there might be little lead pellets flying around and over my house at any time.
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Mike Luken 
 

Cherokee, Ia.
Former Iowa Patriot Guard Ride Captain
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