fast and furious

[Varmintmist]

More on that non story that no one broke the law in perpetrating

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/01/20/rifle-capable-taking-down-helicopter-found-at-el-chapo-hideout-purchased-through-fast-and-furious-program.html

[Gavin_Sons]

No way!  Anonther Obummer idea gone wrong? Say it aint so.

[Chrisj CMA]

They are still investigating, trying to get documents from the lying cheating, stonewalling Obama administration.  Maybe by the time he leaves office he and his buddy Eric can share a nice little cell.  Well they have to get rid of ms Lynch as well, they put her in there to save their butts

[Jess from VA]

Instead, agents from the ATF lost track of 1,400 of the 2,000 guns involved in the sting operation.

Of course they did.... they went to Mexico where they couldn't possibly keep track of them. 

We have masterminds leading the way.  You bet we do.

[Alpha Dog]

And the lame stream drive by media stands in silence. Jeepers I heard that pin drop
Chuck

[old2soon]

UH lets see iffin I gotz dis sorta right-the G TRIED to outsmart criminals and got screwed in da process? Maybe the wrong criminals-our gubmint-tryin to eff up other criminals-damn-whouda thunk it!  And they STILL wunder WHY we don't "trust" them!  RIDE SAFE.

[Gavin_Sons]

I'm surprised I mean really surprised, almost shocked that our friendly liberal members are not here defending Mr. ZERO? How bout it liberals? Tell us we are wrong now and ask why we don't like Obummer and Hildabeast. I'm guessing this will also be ignored as proff to why the guy running the country sucks in every aspect of his job.

[The emperor has no clothes]

I'm surprised I mean really surprised, almost shocked that our friendly liberal members are not here defending Mr. ZERO? How bout it liberals? Tell us we are wrong now and ask why we don't like Obummer and Hildabeast. I'm guessing this will also be ignored as proff to why the guy running the country sucks in every aspect of his job.

Your concern for us liberals is very touching. 

[DirtyDan]

meathead you stick to your guns

and I dig that about you

from a conservative

dan

[Gavin_Sons]

I'm surprised I mean really surprised, almost shocked that our friendly liberal members are not here defending Mr. ZERO? How bout it liberals? Tell us we are wrong now and ask why we don't like Obummer and Hildabeast. I'm guessing this will also be ignored as proff to why the guy running the country sucks in every aspect of his job.

Your concern for us liberals is very touching. 

I'm not sure you're much of a liberal Meathead. You are showing an awful lot of signs of being conservative.  I think you're a closet conservative.

[The emperor has no clothes]

I'm surprised I mean really surprised, almost shocked that our friendly liberal members are not here defending Mr. ZERO? How bout it liberals? Tell us we are wrong now and ask why we don't like Obummer and Hildabeast. I'm guessing this will also be ignored as proff to why the guy running the country sucks in every aspect of his job.

Your concern for us liberals is very touching. 

I'm not sure you're much of a liberal Meathead. You are showing an awful lot of signs of being conservative.  I think you're a closet conservative.

You are probably right. I'm just using the term many here have given me.

[Serk]

I'm surprised I mean really surprised, almost shocked that our friendly liberal members are not here defending Mr. ZERO? How bout it liberals? Tell us we are wrong now and ask why we don't like Obummer and Hildabeast. I'm guessing this will also be ignored as proff to why the guy running the country sucks in every aspect of his job.

[Daddie O]

When you use ad hominem attacks like Obummer, Hildabeast, and lame stream media it immediately discredits any argument you postulate afterwards.

The same conservatives that deride the Obama administration for the fast and furious fiasco are the same ones who laud the Reagan administration yet forget the Iran-Contra scandal.  Should we compare how many people died because of each?

Obama gets the Iranians to sign a no-nuke deal with regular inspections, and he is labeled as awful by conservatives for doing so, yet Reagan actually sells weapons to Iran and he is a hero?  Reagan then gives money to the Contras, and do you have any idea what the Contras did with the money, weapons, and training?

You see, the lack of outrage towards Reagan combined with the condemnation of Obama shows that in your partisan fueled thinking you don't really care about doing the right thing as long as the mistake isn't made by your party.

I am an Obama supporter, yet I can still say the "fast and furious" idea wasn't a good one.  In the grand scheme when comparing the wrongs of various administrations I see an obvious disparity in the cost of bad ideas, ie Iran-Contra, Invasion of Iraq, etc. vs fast and furious.  How many people did the Contras kill/rape/torture?  How many Americans have died in Iraq?  How many have died because of the fast and furious?  Where is your outrage directed towards?

[DirtyDan]

well some people might not have outrage

others might have more than enough for everyone

its not always the action

sometimes its the reaction

dan

[big d]

Daddie o, how can the inspectors inspect where they are not allowed to go. It is claimed that 95% of all parts used in a nuke was turned over to Russia. What brain surgeon chose Russia. Second, how did they come to the conclusion that 95% was turned over since a base line of amount that Iran had was never confirmed. This  potus took irans word. Get real. I know you would believe anything Obama says, but I rely on facts. Be it dem or repub.

[Gavin_Sons]

When you use ad hominem attacks like Obummer, Hildabeast, and lame stream media it immediately discredits any argument you postulate afterwards.

The same conservatives that deride the Obama administration for the fast and furious fiasco are the same ones who laud the Reagan administration yet forget the Iran-Contra scandal.  Should we compare how many people died because of each?

Obama gets the Iranians to sign a no-nuke deal with regular inspections, and he is labeled as awful by conservatives for doing so, yet Reagan actually sells weapons to Iran and he is a hero?  Reagan then gives money to the Contras, and do you have any idea what the Contras did with the money, weapons, and training?

You see, the lack of outrage towards Reagan combined with the condemnation of Obama shows that in your partisan fueled thinking you don't really care about doing the right thing as long as the mistake isn't made by your party.

I am an Obama supporter, yet I can still say the "fast and furious" idea wasn't a good one.  In the grand scheme when comparing the wrongs of various administrations I see an obvious disparity in the cost of bad ideas, ie Iran-Contra, Invasion of Iraq, etc. vs fast and furious.  How many people did the Contras kill/rape/torture?  How many Americans have died in Iraq?  How many have died because of the fast and furious?  Where is your outrage directed towards?

Obummer, there I guess im offically discredited because daddieo says so  I have a cousin that has a hard on for president Zero and the Hildabitch. You cant talk sense to these people because they are always right. Just because some of us have common sense doesn't mean everyone does

[The emperor has no clothes]

When you use ad hominem attacks like Obummer, Hildabeast, and lame stream media it immediately discredits any argument you postulate afterwards.

The same conservatives that deride the Obama administration for the fast and furious fiasco are the same ones who laud the Reagan administration yet forget the Iran-Contra scandal.  Should we compare how many people died because of each?

Obama gets the Iranians to sign a no-nuke deal with regular inspections, and he is labeled as awful by conservatives for doing so, yet Reagan actually sells weapons to Iran and he is a hero?  Reagan then gives money to the Contras, and do you have any idea what the Contras did with the money, weapons, and training?

You see, the lack of outrage towards Reagan combined with the condemnation of Obama shows that in your partisan fueled thinking you don't really care about doing the right thing as long as the mistake isn't made by your party.

I am an Obama supporter, yet I can still say the "fast and furious" idea wasn't a good one.  In the grand scheme when comparing the wrongs of various administrations I see an obvious disparity in the cost of bad ideas, ie Iran-Contra, Invasion of Iraq, etc. vs fast and furious.  How many people did the Contras kill/rape/torture?  How many Americans have died in Iraq?  How many have died because of the fast and furious?  Where is your outrage directed towards?

Obummer, there I guess im offically discredited because daddieo says so  I have a cousin that has a hard on for president Zero and the Hildabitch. You cant talk sense to these people because they are always right. Just because some of us have common sense doesn't mean everyone does

I seriously doubt Daddie-O has anything to do with your discredit.

[Patrick]

Past administrations have made mistakes ? So be it. They are done and over with, no going back.
Shouldn't people learn from mistakes ?  This administration certainly hasn't.

[Varmintmist]

When you use ad hominem attacks like Obummer, Hildabeast, and lame stream media it immediately discredits any argument you postulate afterwards.

Like; Dubya...Dumbya, Dudya, DAH-bya, DWI-bya, Duh? Bya, Dubius, D-Dubya-I, Double-Duh, Dubfus, Dubius Dubya, Flubya, Bogus W. Potus, Shrubus Illegitimus, Your Accidency, His Fraudulancy, Commander in Thief, Spurious George, George Putsch, "*", Mona Loser, The Thief Executive, President Select, The Lyin' King, Oaf of Office (one of our favorites), Drinky McDumbass, Whoosh Bush, Mini-Prez, Stumble-ya, Prince Snippy, Sock-Puppet-in Chief, [sic] Bush, Smirky the Chimp. There were also many plays on "President"...Resident, Pre$ident, Duh President, Presidunce, Presidump, Presidumb, ?President?  President Reject, UnPresident, , President Select, President Putsch.  Resident Bush
http://bushwatch.small-mobile-entities.com/name.htm
But that was OK right?

The same conservatives that deride the Obama administration for the fast and furious fiasco are the same ones who laud the Reagan administration yet forget the Iran-Contra scandal.  Should we compare how many people died because of each?

You really want to compare the two? Iran Contra, the only thing about Iran Contra, was that all of congress wasnt informed. That is why there were no convictions that were not thrown out. One guy went to jail for tax evasion. It was a policy that supported people against a enemy of our country which happens to be part of the job of the govt. Fast and Furious, broke gun laws IN the US, felonies, by a administration that supports stricter gun laws. There was a similar program run by the Bush admin, but it changed under Obama. The mexican govt was not told of the change, and the firearms were not tracked. American civilians have died because the current admin wanted to prove a adgenda.

Obama gets the Iranians to sign a no-nuke deal with regular inspections, and he is labeled as awful by conservatives for doing so, yet Reagan actually sells weapons to Iran and he is a hero?  Reagan then gives money to the Contras, and do you have any idea what the Contras did with the money, weapons, and training?

Fought the Sandinistas. The nuke deal has no real provision for inspections. We can inspect only what they want to lt us in to see, when they want us there.

You see, the lack of outrage towards Reagan combined with the condemnation of Obama shows that in your partisan fueled thinking you don't really care about doing the right thing as long as the mistake isn't made by your party.

Not thrilled with the Iran Contra thing, but no one went to jail even though the Dems held hearings for ever. We KNOW beyond a shadow of a doubt, that the admin broke laws in this country and violated the treaty with Mexico. We know that the result of the breaking of US law was the death of American and Mexican civilians. That isnt in question. Where are the hearings?

I am an Obama supporter, yet I can still say the "fast and furious" idea wasn't a good one.  In the grand scheme when comparing the wrongs of various administrations I see an obvious disparity in the cost of bad ideas, ie Iran-Contra, Invasion of Iraq, etc. vs fast and furious.  How many people did the Contras kill/rape/torture?  How many Americans have died in Iraq?  How many have died because of the fast and furious?  Where is your outrage directed towards?

How many were the Sandinistas killing? They started by seizing hostages, shooting people and demanding ransom and funded themselves by robbing banks. They were not the good guys.
As to how many died in Fast and furious, at least 5 Americans, and a untold number of Mexicans.

Here, from the right wing LA Times a gallery of articles. http://www.latimes.com/nation/atf-fast-furious-sg-storygallery.html

But there is not one single democrat under investigation for the deaths of Americans. None. Zero. Its a non issue.

[Roadog]

   Well said Varmintmist. Don't confuse them with the facts.  

[Daddie O]

The only thing about Iran-Contra scandal was congress wasn't informed?  Holy crap dude, if that isn't the biggest white washing of an event I dunno what is.

There was an arms embargo against Iran.  Reagan broke the law selling weapons to Iran, a State Sponsor of Terrorism.  You're totally cool with selling weapons to the Ayatollah huh?

The following arms were supplied to Iran:

    August 20, 1985 – 96 TOW anti-tank missiles
    September 14, 1985 – 408 more TOWs
    November 24, 1985 – 18 Hawk anti-aircraft missiles
    February 17, 1986 – 500 TOWs
    February 27, 1986 – 500 TOWs
    May 24, 1986 – 508 TOWs, 240 Hawk spare parts
    August 4, 1986 – More Hawk spares
    October 28, 1986 – 500 TOWs

To you, it's way more shocking that rifles ended up in the hands of Mexican drug lords.
  

14 administration officials were indicted, and 11 were convicted.  There would have been more indictments and convictions, but Reagan refused to declassify documents regarding the matter.  George H. W. Bush pardoned all those convictions in the final days of his presidency.

All the Contras did was fight some Sandinistas huh?  Again, total white washing.  The Contras killed over 50,000 people in Nicaragua, mostly civilians.  They entered convents and raped and murdered nuns.  They killed students, burned down schools and water treatment plants.  This doesn't even begin to cover what was done in El Salvador and Guatemala.  Oh, five people died because of fast and furious?  Now I see why you are outraged at the Obama administration.  Five is wayyyy more than the over quarter of a million people that died from Reagan's ventures.

As far as the current Iran deal, Iran will lose 97 percent of its stockpile of enriched uranium. It will also give up 14,000 of its 20,000 centrifuges, the machines used to enrich uranium, and agree to only enrich uranium to a level unsuitable for weapons for 15 years.

The deal also curbs Iranian production of plutonium, the other element that can be used to build a bomb. The deal bans plutonium reactors for 15 years and stipulates that Iran must dismantle its current one.

International inspectors will have cameras that provide 24-hour monitoring at the Natanz facility, which has 5,000 centrifuges, and inspectors will have daily access to the facility for 15 years. Within a year, there will be 130 to 150 inspectors in Iran.

Your arguments lack logic, and the facts of the cases do not support your arguments.

[G-Man]

When you use ad hominem attacks like Obummer, Hildabeast, and lame stream media it immediately discredits any argument you postulate afterwards.  Pot calling the kettle.......

I am an Obama supporter, yet I can still say the "fast and furious" idea wasn't a good one.  You could have just said this, but you were so riddled with anxiety about agreeing with everyone here that your head would have exploded had you just left it at that.

[DirtyDan]

G-Man the red text is REAL hard to read

dan

[G-Man]

The only thing about Iran-Contra scandal was congress wasn't informed?  Holy crap dude, if that isn't the biggest white washing of an event I dunno what is.

There was an arms embargo against Iran.  Reagan broke the law selling weapons to Iran, a State Sponsor of Terrorism.  You're totally cool with selling weapons to the Ayatollah huh?

The following arms were supplied to Iran:

    August 20, 1985 – 96 TOW anti-tank missiles
    September 14, 1985 – 408 more TOWs
    November 24, 1985 – 18 Hawk anti-aircraft missiles
    February 17, 1986 – 500 TOWs
    February 27, 1986 – 500 TOWs
    May 24, 1986 – 508 TOWs, 240 Hawk spare parts
    August 4, 1986 – More Hawk spares
    October 28, 1986 – 500 TOWs

To you, it's way more shocking that rifles ended up in the hands of Mexican drug lords.
  

14 administration officials were indicted, and 11 were convicted.  There would have been more indictments and convictions, but Reagan refused to declassify documents regarding the matter.  George H. W. Bush pardoned all those convictions in the final days of his presidency.

All the Contras did was fight some Sandinistas huh?  Again, total white washing.  The Contras killed over 50,000 people in Nicaragua, mostly civilians.  They entered convents and raped and murdered nuns.  They killed students, burned down schools and water treatment plants.  This doesn't even begin to cover what was done in El Salvador and Guatemala.  Oh, five people died because of fast and furious?  Now I see why you are outraged at the Obama administration.  Five is wayyyy more than the over quarter of a million people that died from Reagan's ventures.

As far as the current Iran deal, Iran will lose 97 percent of its stockpile of enriched uranium. It will also give up 14,000 of its 20,000 centrifuges, the machines used to enrich uranium, and agree to only enrich uranium to a level unsuitable for weapons for 15 years.

The deal also curbs Iranian production of plutonium, the other element that can be used to build a bomb. The deal bans plutonium reactors for 15 years and stipulates that Iran must dismantle its current one.

International inspectors will have cameras that provide 24-hour monitoring at the Natanz facility, which has 5,000 centrifuges, and inspectors will have daily access to the facility for 15 years. Within a year, there will be 130 to 150 inspectors in Iran.

Your arguments lack logic, and the facts of the cases do not support your arguments.

You guys fell for it.

He agreed that F & F was bad, but could just say it.  Now it's a look over there thing so the blow is softened.

[G-Man]

G-Man the red text is REAL hard to read

dan

Change your background to a lighter color and you can see all colors, except the yellow.  Or you can just right click and highlight the text and it will change color.

[DirtyDan]

got it

thank you G-Man

dan

[..]

d o did you know that Regan is dead??? He has been for nearly 14 years.

Not only is he dead but he stopped being the President in 1989.

The concern voiced is for the here and now!

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

No way!  Anonther Obummer idea gone wrong? Say it aint so.

I think in most ways this is exactly what they wanted to happen.

They wanted LEOs and civilians on both sides of the border killed and maimed with these guns while they shouted to all that would listen that American gun laws are to blame. At the same time they were sending these weapons to the cartels the hilderbeast was in Mexico apologizing because our lax gun laws were to blame for all their troubles. You can bet they were all hoping for lots of killings with these guns that could be traced back to America.

And, if not for the integrity of a fed or two who probably gave up their careers to do the right thing, finding this rifle would have been all about "lax gun laws" just as they intended.

Knowingly killing citizens and LEOs from both countries for the sake of anti-gun propaganda is probably the most despicable thing this administration has done. I have no idea what their actual goal is in attempting the abolition of civilian owned firearms but it's obviously not about crime or safety.

[Gavin_Sons]

No way!  Anonther Obummer idea gone wrong? Say it aint so.

I think in most ways this is exactly what they wanted to happen.

They wanted LEOs and civilians on both sides of the border killed and maimed with these guns while they shouted to all that would listen that American gun laws are to blame. At the same time they were sending these weapons to the cartels the hilderbeast was in Mexico apologizing because our lax gun laws were to blame for all their troubles. You can bet they were all hoping for lots of killings with these guns that could be traced back to America.

And, if not for the integrity of a fed or two who probably gave up their careers to do the right thing, finding this rifle would have been all about "lax gun laws" just as they intended.

Knowingly killing citizens and LEOs from both countries for the sake of anti-gun propaganda is probably the most despicable thing this administration has done. I have no idea what their actual goal is in attempting the abolition of civilian owned firearms but it's obviously not about crime or safety.

Sadly i think you are right.

[Serk]

Knowingly killing citizens and LEOs from both countries for the sake of anti-gun propaganda is probably the most despicable thing this administration has done.

This is the only part of your comment I disagree with. If they're willing to do this for political points, what else have they been doing behind our backs?

Yeah yeah yeah, tin foil hat conspiracy theory blah blah blah, I'm obviously a crazy tea bagger.

I honestly HOPE this is all in our heads and things aren't as bad as they appear to be, I really do. I hope the liberal beliefs that Obama is all about unicorns and rainbows in sunny meadows of peace and innocence are true.

But I don't think that's the case.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Knowingly killing citizens and LEOs from both countries for the sake of anti-gun propaganda is probably the most despicable thing this administration has done.

This is the only part of your comment I disagree with. If they're willing to do this for political points, what else have they been doing behind our backs?

Yeah yeah yeah, tin foil hat conspiracy theory blah blah blah, I'm obviously a crazy tea bagger.

I honestly HOPE this is all in our heads and things aren't as bad as they appear to be, I really do. I hope the liberal beliefs that Obama is all about unicorns and rainbows in sunny meadows of peace and innocence are true.

But I don't think that's the case.

I never thought it was obvious. 

[Pappy!]

meathead you stick to your guns

and I dig that about you

from a conservative

dan

Yep! Even if those liberal guns are just pea shooters......

[The emperor has no clothes]

meathead you stick to your guns

and I dig that about you

from a conservative

dan

Yep! Even if those liberal guns are just pea shooters......

I'm not sure if a Browning BAR 338 would count as a pea shooter. 

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

Here's a good synopsis of the fast and furious debacle and the resulting legal proceedings.

 
https://www.nraila.org/articles/20160122/court-decision-drug-lords-capture-illustrate-ongoing-fallout-of-operation-fast-furious