So we are not allowed to carry at work, but my employer cannot guarantee safety

[Skinhead]

This incident occurred today at one of the company's sites.  We risk termination if caught carrying at work.

Warren — A woman is in custody after allegedly stabbing another woman outside the lobby of a General Motors facility, according to Mayor Jim Fouts and GM representatives.
The stabbing occurred around 9 a.m. outside a building at the GM Technical Center at 30001 Van Dyke Ave. It left a female victim hospitalized in critical condition, Fouts said.
“She has multiple stab wounds and is undergoing an operation,” he said.
The attack was halted by a quick-thinking valet driver with a concealed pistol license, Fouts said.
“He pulled out his concealed weapon and stopped the assault,” he said.
Warren police then arrived to arrest the alleged attacker.
The stabbing followed an altercation that began in the lobby of the facility’s main building, Fouts said.
“A female came to the visitor’s desk in the lobby and asked for a specific female. They called the female employee down, they spoke for a few minutes in the lobby,” Fouts said. “They walked outside and then the visitor began assaulting the victim.”
Fouts said the attacker used a steak knife to stab the victim multiple times in the neck, abdomen and back. The nearby valet driver pulled his weapon to stop the attack as police responded to arrest the suspect.
The suspect and victim appeared to know each other and the assault may have been linked to a domestic dispute, Fouts said.
“It certainly isn’t terrorism, it isn’t workplace violence,” Fouts said. “There are rumors that they might have been relatives, but we don’t know for sure what their relationship is.”
Authorities have not identified the suspect or victim. Warren police on Wednesday declined to comment on the situation.
GM officials early Wednesday indicated they were seeking more information about the incident.
“We are looking into the details,” GM spokesman Michael Albano said. “The Warren police department is investigating.”
The stabbing marked the first violent incident to take place at the facility, Fouts said.
“It’s unprecedented, unexpected and unbelievable,” he said.
The entrance to the building where the attack took place is visible from the mayor’s office, he said.
“Had I been looking, I could have viewed this attack taking place,” Fouts said. “You just don’t expect something like this to take place.”

[old2soon]

PROOF-as IF any were needed-THAT stuff can happen ANYWHERE and at ANYTIME. I'm going for a walk here in a bit and "Something" with a bang switch is going with me. AND for those that don't know-I live in Rural Missouri. If you're a union member bring THIS up at the next meeting and even if yer NOT a union member the company REALLY needs to address this situation. Course a DETERMINED attacker dang near impossible to stop. And forgive me if I presume-some female doing something she shouldn't with someone else's other?  RIDE SAFE.

[MarkT]

My employer has this sign posted.  So not gonna happen here.  Too bad the liberals can't wake up.



Did I mention I'm self employed?

[Davemn]

Yep, smart. Tell everyone you're carrying. Defeats the whole purpose of conceal carry. Sounds like a tough guy though. That's important!

[PAVALKER]

So who does the Valet Driver work for and what, if anything happened to him?

[Skinhead]

So who does the Valet Driver work for and what, if anything happened to him?

I don't know.  This is all the information I have.  I'm sure we'll hear plenty about it on the MSM (NOT!).  But my thought is the VALET driver is either working for a dealer shuttling vehicles, or a parking valet, but when I worked at that site, they did not have valet parking.  I'm sure we will hear more through the corporate news letter and I will pass on any new details.

[Skinhead]

Yep, smart. Tell everyone you're carrying. Defeats the whole purpose of conceal carry. Sounds like a tough guy though. That's important!

Are you referring to the sign?  Where does it tell anyone you are carrying?  All it says is carrying is allowed, concealed or open if you don't have a permit.

I agree, it does sound tough.  I'm sure that is what Mark is going for ....

[MarkT]

Yep, smart. Tell everyone you're carrying. Defeats the whole purpose of conceal carry. Sounds like a tough guy though. That's important!

Are you referring to the sign?  Where does it tell anyone you are carrying?  All it says is carrying is allowed, concealed or open if you don't have a permit.

I agree, it does sound tough.  I'm sure that is what Mark is going for ....

The sign says the opposite of "gun safe zone".  Perps can forget finding easy victims here. When I carry - all the time - no one knows it at least from appearance (friends do).  I don't print or open carry. Not interested in making any statement, just being prepared. On the stupid comment - pretty sure he's a liberal, IIRC previous comments.  So the liberalism is an expected comment.  I wouldn't live in The People's Republic of Minnesota for any reason - known lefty sinkhole. And they don't have reciprocity for my CCW permit so I drive around the state - they get none of my money, same as Illinois. Now I see the gov of Virginia has retracted his dumb move so they are back on the road trip agenda.  But they (liberals mainly Californicators) have invaded here too and changed CO from red to blue, f'd up the gun rights and caused Magpul to move out with their jobs. (Oh well now i don't have to pay sales tax for their stuff.)  Long after I moved here partly for the demographics. Afraid they are infecting much of the country.

[fudgie]

Yep, smart. Tell everyone you're carrying. Defeats the whole purpose of conceal carry. Sounds like a tough guy though. That's important!

Better to be tough then a pussy.   

[fudgie]

Sometimes going against the rules is better. Have to decide for yourself is your job or is your life more important.

Luckily in Ind 'no guns' signs have no force of the law.

[solo1]

Yep, smart. Tell everyone you're carrying. Defeats the whole purpose of conceal carry. Sounds like a tough guy though. That's important!

Just where did you get the idea that the sign would indicate that everyone is carrying?

[gordonv]

Sometimes going against the rules is better. Have to decide for yourself is your job or is your life more important.

Luckily in Ind 'no guns' signs have no force of the law.

But does disobeying it, give the employer the right to fire you for carrying? Or would you be able to take it to court to get your job back and etc.?

[Trynt]

Yep, smart. Tell everyone you're carrying. Defeats the whole purpose of conceal carry. Sounds like a tough guy though. That's important!

Are you referring to the sign?  Where does it tell anyone you are carrying?  All it says is carrying is allowed, concealed or open if you don't have a permit.

I agree, it does sound tough.  I'm sure that is what Mark is going for ....

The sign says the opposite of "gun safe zone".  Perps can forget finding easy victims here. When I carry - all the time - no one knows it at least from appearance (friends do).  I don't print or open carry. Not interested in making any statement, just being prepared. On the stupid comment - pretty sure he's a liberal, IIRC previous comments.  So the liberalism is an expected comment.  I wouldn't live in The People's Republic of Minnesota for any reason - known lefty sinkhole. And they don't have reciprocity for my CCW permit so I drive around the state - they get none of my money, same as Illinois. Now I see the gov of Virginia has retracted his dumb move so they are back on the road trip agenda.  But they (liberals mainly Californicators) have invaded here too and changed CO from red to blue, f'd up the gun rights and caused Magpul to move out with their jobs. (Oh well now i don't have to pay sales tax for their stuff.)  Long after I moved here partly for the demographics. Afraid they are infecting much of the country.

It is only the "Twin Cities" that are a lefty sinkhole.  I also note the Colorado doesn't honor my Mn carry permit.

[Gavin_Sons]

Yep, smart. Tell everyone you're carrying. Defeats the whole purpose of conceal carry. Sounds like a tough guy though. That's important!

Better to be tough then a pussy.   

How bout a tough pussy? 

[Mn. Norseman]

We aren't all lefties here... although I am left handed.

[Skinhead]

They will fire you.  They prohibit alcohol and fire arms from company property.  This includes your car in their parking lot.  I know of guys who were terminated for bringing a case of beer on property (parking lot) in their car.  They tried to say no weapons, That means hunting rifles, shot guns, and bow and arrows, so if you were going to leave to go hunting after work you could not bring your weapon.  Stupid run a muck if you ax me.

[sandy]

Several years ago, AZ passed a law forbidding an employer from banning firearms from their parking lot. To ban them meant that employees couldn't carry to and from work which would open them up for a lawsuit.

[fudgie]

Yep, smart. Tell everyone you're carrying. Defeats the whole purpose of conceal carry. Sounds like a tough guy though. That's important!

Better to be tough then a pussy.   

How bout a tough pussy? 

no thx!

[fudgie]

Sometimes going against the rules is better. Have to decide for yourself is your job or is your life more important.

Luckily in Ind 'no guns' signs have no force of the law.

employers still hv the right not to allow them inside. Parking lot is ok. I was referring to if you go shopping and thr is a no gun sign on the door. U can still carry inside but would hv to lve if asked.

But does disobeying it, give the employer the right to fire you for carrying? Or would you be able to take it to court to get your job back and etc.?

[art]

Although I'm for gun rights and do have one. I would not want to work in a big place where everybody can carry. I worked for the GE in Socal with 250 people,mostly men and some real idiots were there also. I wouldn't trust some of them with a screw driver. Back in the late 80s  in the machine shop there was a machinist screwing around with the leadmans wife during lunch and whenever he could. The leadman warned him that he would kill him if it didn't stop. The machinist also a friend of mine just brushed him off. I wasen't there at the time due to a layoff and being in another shpo but the leadman had a shotgun and one swingshift night came in and shot the machinist twice after allready killing his wife. He also went after two other guys but by then everybody ran out. The leadman left the state but was caught and got 25 to life. When I came back from the layoff a week later I had to operate the same machine of the guy that got killed. They were both friends of mine. Justified? I think so but he could have also dumped her and transfered but it is what it is.

[MarkT]

Yep, smart. Tell everyone you're carrying. Defeats the whole purpose of conceal carry. Sounds like a tough guy though. That's important!

Are you referring to the sign?  Where does it tell anyone you are carrying?  All it says is carrying is allowed, concealed or open if you don't have a permit.

I agree, it does sound tough.  I'm sure that is what Mark is going for ....

The sign says the opposite of "gun safe zone".  Perps can forget finding easy victims here. When I carry - all the time - no one knows it at least from appearance (friends do).  I don't print or open carry. Not interested in making any statement, just being prepared. On the stupid comment - pretty sure he's a liberal, IIRC previous comments.  So the liberalism is an expected comment.  I wouldn't live in The People's Republic of Minnesota for any reason - known lefty sinkhole. And they don't have reciprocity for my CCW permit so I drive around the state - they get none of my money, same as Illinois. Now I see the gov of Virginia has retracted his dumb move so they are back on the road trip agenda.  But they (liberals mainly Californicators) have invaded here too and changed CO from red to blue, f'd up the gun rights and caused Magpul to move out with their jobs. (Oh well now i don't have to pay sales tax for their stuff.)  Long after I moved here partly for the demographics. Afraid they are infecting much of the country.

It is only the "Twin Cities" that are a lefty sinkhole.  I also note the Colorado doesn't honor my Mn carry permit.

Pretty sure the policy is, "we'll honor yours if you honor ours."  But sometimes  they throw in, "your requirements are insufficient".  That's what some states do, for states that don't have a training (or too easy) requirement.  I worry about those "constitutional carry" states citizens, losing reciprocity in other states.  And if that happens because KS just became a CC state, reciprocity between CO-KS might be lost.

[tjohnson]

I live in Indiana, I have a Conceal Permit, and my employer states I can not carry at work. Luckily within the last few years, Indiana has changed the laws that does not allow an employer to penalize me for having a my weapon in my vehicle. However it would be up to the company if I were caught packing against the company policy. If the company policy is termination for subordination here, then that could be the result. Additionally know that Indiana is an "At Will State", where for any reason I can be terminated. There may have been a time or 2 that while at work I have my pee shooter on me. My office consists of many Conceal Permit holders, and we all know whom we are, and we all know where to go if needed. And as I stated many of times, the company can not protect me, so unless they can guarantee my safety, which we all know they can't, then I want to protect me.

Ironically enough a female had to file a restraining order against her husband for spousal abuse, and when she was conversing with another female there, she was told to come see me because they knew I carry my weapon, a lot.

[Skinhead]

If allowed to carry , I don't think everyone would.  My reason for starting this post is because the security personnel could not save or protect the victim.  She was saved by a person legally carrying a concealed handgun.  If an employer forces you to give up your ability to protect yourself, they should be responsible to protect you, or held libel when you were injured because of their policy.  I started working for this company in the melting department of a large foundry, we had some real characters working there.  I don't recall the handgun policy at that time (if there was one), but I know most of those guys were packing.  You just didn't want to get live ammo too close to molten iron.

[old2soon]

Which begs the question on C C W reciprocity. Does Illinois recognize ANY other states C C W permits? I KNOW they don't recognize Missouri's. Course if EVERY state just followed the Constitution would NOT NEED "permits". RIDE SAFE.

[Momz]

My old employer had a "no weapons" policy and took it further. In the Employee Handbook, it clearly stated that even talking about firearms was a cause for termination.

My former supervisor warned us to never talk about hunting or any activities that would even mention knives, bow and arrows, or any type of possible implement of death.

Our HR director was the person that made the "no weapons" policy due to her own paranoia.
She also had a security firm scan and open all incoming mail for more than a year after the "Ricin" scare of 2001.

[The emperor has no clothes]

My old employer had a "no weapons" policy and took it further. In the Employee Handbook, it clearly stated that even talking about firearms was a cause for termination.

My former supervisor warned us to never talk about hunting or any activities that would even mention knives, bow and arrows, or any type of possible implement of death.

Our HR director was the person that made the "no weapons" policy due to her own paranoia.
She also had a security firm scan and open all incoming mail for more than a year after the "Ricin" scare of 2001.

Damn !

[MarkT]

On the subject of training and reciprocity, I think training to acquire a permit is a good idea.  There are cowboys who cannot carry responsibly, as well as all who carry should know the laws of what is justifiable deadly force.  I have a liberal brother who learned I carried and couldn't shut his yap about it.  Constantly said things like "You oughta shoot him, what a dumass." Could not grasp the concept of CCW is analogous to a fire extinguisher.  OTOH I worry about testing and who is empowered to define adequate vetting for a carry permit. Easily another tool for gun grabbers.

[Jess from VA]

I bet this is the exception and not the rule.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/02/11/worker-fired-for-carrying-gun-on-company-property-given-job-back.html?intcmp=hplnws

[The emperor has no clothes]

I bet this is the exception and not the rule.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/02/11/worker-fired-for-carrying-gun-on-company-property-given-job-back.html?intcmp=hplnws

I'm sure you are correct.

[old2soon]

I bet this is the exception and not the rule.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/02/11/worker-fired-for-carrying-gun-on-company-property-given-job-back.html?intcmp=hplnws

            Soooooo general morons FIRST instinct wuz to TERMINATE the very MAN that saved that Ladies life?  Good goin there general morons!  Now I gotz ta wonder did they tell him if he continues to C C W-LEGALLY-he's toast?  Great blow for freedom there general morons!  RIDE SAFE

[Skinhead]

UPDATE: CCW holder fired - escorted off property.

http://www.fox2detroit.com/news/local-news/88543818-story

[DirtyDan]

My old employer had a "no weapons" policy and took it further. In the Employee Handbook, it clearly stated that even talking about firearms was a cause for termination.

My former supervisor warned us to never talk about hunting or any activities that would even mention knives, bow and arrows, or any type of possible implement of death.

Our HR director was the person that made the "no weapons" policy due to her own paranoia.
She also had a security firm scan and open all incoming mail for more than a year after the "Ricin" scare of 2001.

that's great ......"no weapons" really ?  "any possible implement of death"

well lets see, we can start with a drivers license or a credit card . I've had experienced operators show me how to use them as weapons. Then we can move on to pens and pencils , G Gordon Liddy pencil trick anyone ? then on to paper, anyone ever wrap newspaper or magazine around the knuckles as improvised brass knuckles ? chairs as clubs, any wires for choking ..... etc etc etc

when you really THINK about it..... ANYTHING could be a weapon, almost any physical object that can be held in the hand can be used for harm. almost, I have not come up with a use for sponges, cooked pasta, mashed potatoes ..... yet

anyone chew tobacco ? you get a lot of juice in the mouth. ever had tobacco in your eye ? it hurts REAL bad. now think spitting cobra

I had a safety engineer tell us once "no weapons" on the construction site

so no hammers, screwdrivers, wrenches, shovels, 2x4s etc etc

an army quote "your MIND is your primary weapon"

yeah Jersey is a rough place

dan

ps lets ask meathead a BUTCHER about the no weapons at work policy

[WilliamRS]

They will fire you.  They prohibit alcohol and fire arms from company property.  This includes your car in their parking lot.  I know of guys who were terminated for bringing a case of beer on property (parking lot) in their car.  They tried to say no weapons, That means hunting rifles, shot guns, and bow and arrows, so if you were going to leave to go hunting after work you could not bring your weapon.  Stupid run a muck if you ax me.

in texas, businesses can post an officially worded sign on the building baring concealed or nonconcealed weapons, BUT they can not bar you from having a gun in their parking lots or other outside spaces.  licensed texans have the right to to carry right up to the door of their building. 

[The emperor has no clothes]

My old employer had a "no weapons" policy and took it further. In the Employee Handbook, it clearly stated that even talking about firearms was a cause for termination.

My former supervisor warned us to never talk about hunting or any activities that would even mention knives, bow and arrows, or any type of possible implement of death.

Our HR director was the person that made the "no weapons" policy due to her own paranoia.
She also had a security firm scan and open all incoming mail for more than a year after the "Ricin" scare of 2001.

that's great ......"no weapons" really ?  "any possible implement of death"

well lets see, we can start with a drivers license or a credit card . I've had experienced operators show me how to use them as weapons. Then we can move on to pens and pencils , G Gordon Liddy pencil trick anyone ? then on to paper, anyone ever wrap newspaper or magazine around the knuckles as improvised brass knuckles ? chairs as clubs, any wires for choking ..... etc etc etc

when you really THINK about it..... ANYTHING could be a weapon, almost any physical object that can be held in the hand can be used for harm. almost, I have not come up with a use for sponges, cooked pasta, mashed potatoes ..... yet

anyone chew tobacco ? you get a lot of juice in the mouth. ever had tobacco in your eye ? it hurts REAL bad. now think spitting cobra

I had a safety engineer tell us once "no weapons" on the construction site

so no hammers, screwdrivers, wrenches, shovels, 2x4s etc etc

an army quote "your MIND is your primary weapon"

yeah Jersey is a rough place

dan

ps lets ask meathead a BUTCHER about the no weapons at work policy

You know I've given this a fair amount of thought over the years. Years ago companies didn't care or want to know if you had a gun at work. But in the the last 20 or so most have it in their policy against it. I do have a fair amount of knives at my disposal but they don't do much good over 4'. I think in reality you would just have to let the chips fall where they may if you needed to use a gun. (That's just speaking hypothetically, I would never break a company policy) 

[Skinhead]

Update to Update:  Valet does not work for GM, asked to leave property, supposedly not fired according to this article and knowitall GIG.  (Thanks Gig)

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/macomb-county/2016/02/10/technical-center-stabbing/80171060/

[art]

Working in a machine shop over the years funny thing get made. A fellow machinist made his own gun in the shop as did I. It was disguised as a 5/8 " allen head bolt. It fired a 22 long and worked bu pulling the head back and releasing it. It was spring loaded and worked good. This was back in the mid 60s. I also made replica Old Ironsides brass cannons. The biggest fired a 1" ball with black powder. What a blast. I made a replica Buck knife with an 8" folding blade. CCW? We made our own
'

[doubletee]

Sometimes going against the rules is better. Have to decide for yourself is your job or is your life more important.

Luckily in Ind 'no guns' signs have no force of the law.

But does disobeying it, give the employer the right to fire you for carrying? Or would you be able to take it to court to get your job back and etc.?

Indiana's an at-will state. The employer can fire the employee for any, or no, reason whatsoever as long as the employer is not violating the rights of a protected-class person. The company I work for has a policy that strictly prohibits "weapons" on premises, and they will terminate for offense. Just like in this case, they have no way of protecting me. Heck, the doors aren't even locked with a badge required to get into the building.

[PAVALKER]

UPDATE: CCW holder fired - escorted off property.

http://www.fox2detroit.com/news/local-news/88543818-story

d

I think I read where he was rehired as well....  Will have to find that article to make sure.


Yep.       http://www.guns.com/2016/02/12/pistol-packing-valet-who-saved-woman-during-stabbing-fired-then-re-hired/

[GiG]

Update to Update:  Valet does not work for GM, asked to leave property, supposedly not fired according to this article and knowitall GIG.  (Thanks Gig)

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/macomb-county/2016/02/10/technical-center-stabbing/80171060/

"You're not wrong, you're just an ...."

http://youtu.be/uQl5aYhkF3E?t=1

[Marinakorp]

On the subject of training and reciprocity, I think training to acquire a permit is a good idea.  There are cowboys who cannot carry responsibly, as well as all who carry should know the laws of what is justifiable deadly force.  I have a liberal brother who learned I carried and couldn't shut his yap about it.  Constantly said things like "You oughta shoot him, what a dumass." Could not grasp the concept of CCW is analogous to a fire extinguisher.  OTOH I worry about testing and who is empowered to define adequate vetting for a carry permit. Easily another tool for gun grabbers.

In practice I would agree, however, I would not want to make it a requirement - as it then begs the question of who sets the curriculum... the costs of said instruction, frequency ... essentially making it a ban (over time) as the requirements become more and more restrictive.

As a part time instructor, I have seen plenty of morons...and still remain morons even after multiple attempts by varied instructors (not everyone has the same teaching technique, as not everyone learns in the same fashion) to correct the actions of the student.

I have also seen plenty of "experienced" people from all walks of life and type of people... LEO, those with military service from years ago, or spouses of said individuals...who "know it all" become better shooters after a few minutes (hours) of instruction.... and wish they had learned the techniques years ago... and would be better as a result.

It should be a responsibility of the individual to seek proper instruction... not a requirement... that I fear will be the beginning of the end...too open to corruption and control.

.02