"Loud" Pipes

[Willow]

Okay, I've been seething since a couple of days ago when a new Valkyrie owner was advised that riders with load pipes were always asked to ride in the rear of any group ride.  I try hard to keep a lot of things to myself but sometimes I just don't  If you don't want to be pissed off now is a good time to cease reading this post.  I'm going to spend the next few minutes pissing a lot of folks off and will likely not leave anyone out.  My Head friend is right.  I don't.   

If we were lining up far a group ride and someone were to tell me that I needed to ride at the rear because someone doesn't like the sound of my pipes I would likely tell that someone rather impolitely to do something unnatural to himself and then I'd go off to join another ride.  I've led a goodly number of rides myself.  Suppose while organizing the ride I asked all riders with ape hangers or drag bars to ride near the rear as they obviously can't properly control their bikes.  Maybe I would ask folks with unreasonably (reasonable is based on personal perception, isn't it?) large windscreens to ride away from the front as they obviously aren't properly prepared for the vigors of motorcycle riding.  Maybe I would just ask everyone with fewer than twenty thousand miles per year to keep their distance from the real motorcyclists.  None of that would be right, would it?

For folks who are bothered by the sound of their pipes, or another's pipes, I have a bit of insight for you.  It's not just the pipes.  It's aggravated by the piece of plastic that you stick in front of you that captures and reflects that sound back to you.  I ride with earplugs normally when I ride with a short helmet.  Those plugs are not to dull the sound of my pipes but to diminish the impact of the wind noise.  It's not that I can't stand the wind noise but that I recognize that the tone and volume are just right to do permanent damage to my hearing.  The wind noise, you may have discerned, is louder than my pipes.     

There have occasionally been posts made in which someone will ridicule the concept that loud pipes save lives.  I've got some information for those folks.  They do.  I've ridden bike with relatively loud pipes and with whisper pipes.  A little notice of how often in traffic a driver appears to be surprised by the presence of a motorcycle beside him and how often a drivers head snaps around in shocked notice will tell you quickly that motorcycles in traffic are more easily notices by the unaware when they have more easily heard exhaust sounds.  I spent a few weeks in the CCU after an old woman turned left across my front.  I was riding my Interstate with the whisper pipes.  Loud pipes are not the final answer.  They don't save every life every time.  We won't be safe on the roads until we get rid of all those brain numb cage drivers that simply don't notice motorcyclist until they hear the noise of the collision. 

Just so you know, I do think it's thoughtless of a rider to rev his engine making unnecessary noise especially while sitting still.  I don't like the practice some have of cutting the throttle before disengaging with the clutch when shifting.  Noise serves a purpose.  If it's only purpose is to draw attention unnecessarily to oneself or to simply exclamation point its own existence then I'm not pleased.

I like good motorcycle pipes.  I like them under me.  I like them around me.

I hope I haven't left anyone feeling left out.  If so I could talk about drinking and riding or folks that own motorcycles that only come out of the garage for special rides.  We could talk about young folks or really old folks.  Women drivers.  I left out women drivers.

You all have a nice day.  I feel better now.   

[The emperor has no clothes]

Seething is never good for ones soul. I'm glad you got it off your chest. 

[Willow]

Seething is never good for ones soul. I'm glad you got it off your chest. 

 

[solo1]

Carl, I read your complete post and it made sense.

However, I will never be convinced that STRAIGHT pipes (I did not say pleasantly loud and mellow) are a thing to be pushed.  Mark and Chris both have pleasantly loud and mellow pipes on their Valkyries, I like them.  However.....

When my wife was in her last days. an SOB would roar past out home at 6am with a straight pipe Harley, and he made a special effort as a jackoff artist to continually rev the piss out of it.  THAT is what has turned me off. The attitude "Look at Me" tells me something about those riders.

As far as Loud Pipes Save Lives' I won't comment on that since I have no experience along that line of thinking.

Overall, thx for your opinion. At my age I parked my white horse a long time ago. .  Come to think about it, since I parked the motorcycle too,  I'm a 88 year old dummy on this subject.

[Flat6Valk]

I did not see anything that made me mad.  I am only angry when I am not on my bike with my two brothers 6 pipe exhaust or my other with the muffler chopped back and 36 inch truck stacks.  

Any one mad about that too?

[dragonslayer]

  :cooldude:I rode quiet bikes for many years and had been invited to ride off the road man times by aholes who said they didn't see or hear me.I now run 2Bro's six pack on the IS and have a set for the tourer.The magna has the baffels out and it's quieter than the IS but still can be heard.I have noticed that cages now hear me quicker and a few times have used the noise to wake up these idiots before they wrecked me.The day someone tells me to ride in the back I will ask for a GOOD reason or they can go nFTS.Ride safe not sorry.

[Danny McMillin]

I've read your post twice, Willow, and still don't know what my name is. Glad you feel better.

 I ride six into six, with 1/2 baffle. Tried no baffle, but was unenjoyable for me and/or my passenger. The 1/2 baffle seemed to be a good compromise. I rode sixteen hundred miles, one way, to Inzane last year. Hours of post speed limit speeds, and the resentence of my Valk caused me to understand why I was riding in the rear. I took it in stride, because it is my choice to run loud. But I also respect the rights of the others in the group to enjoy their ride too. If you are enjoying your ride, and for any reason keeping others from doing so, may I suggest that you become a member of the "Lone Wolf" Club. You need to exhibit some consideration for your friends you ride with, all rides with a group is a source of compromise. I know what it sounds like. I can set off Mustang alarms in motel parking lots!! I feel so much better!!

[Willow]

...
When my wife was in her last days. an SOB would roar past out home at 6am with a straight pipe Harley, and he made a special effort as a jackoff artist to continually rev the piss out of it.  THAT is what has turned me off. The attitude "Look at Me" tells me something about those riders.
...

I understand where you're coming from, Wayne.  I had a seventy-two year old woman driving a Ford Fusion turn across the front of me because she was either too stupid or too unaware to see the oncoming motorcyclist.  For the rest of my life I will hold no respect for old women driving Fords.  It only takes a single example, doesn't it?

Interestingly she was driving with her retarded daughter, probably near my age, in the front seat.  I have not developed a dislike for women with retarded daughters.  It was a green car.  I've developed no hatred for green cars.

We do seem to pick and choose what we let push our buttons and what forms our opinions, don't we?  It seems that more than anything at all we tend to all turn out to be more human than would make good sense.  

   

[Willow]

I've read your post twice, Meathead, and still don't know what my name is. Glad you feel better.

 ... If you are enjoying your ride, and for any reason keeping others from doing so, may I suggest that you become a member of the "Lone Wolf" Club. You need to exhibit some consideration for your friends you ride with, all rides with a group is a source of compromise. ... I feel so much better!!

I'm Willow.  Meathead is the smarter one from Arizona.

Interesting perspective.  My friends don't mind riding with me or perhaps they just haven't worked up the nerve to tell me I ruin their riding experience.  Wouldn't the advice to me about ruining someone's experience and compromise apply equally to one who feels it necessary to put people to the back of the line when we don't ;like the sound of their pipes?  It's one thing to voluntarily compromise.  It's quite another thing to demand someone else take measures to meet your own unreasonable limits.  That's not compromise, is it?

 

[Danny McMillin]

Thanks Willow...I was pointing my finger at the wrong person! I went in an edited it; sorry Meathead. Just shows what dem cursed six into sixes will do to your brain, if you don't wear earplugs!!

[The emperor has no clothes]

I've read your post twice, Meathead, and still don't know what my name is. Glad you feel better.

 ... If you are enjoying your ride, and for any reason keeping others from doing so, may I suggest that you become a member of the "Lone Wolf" Club. You need to exhibit some consideration for your friends you ride with, all rides with a group is a source of compromise. ... I feel so much better!!

I'm Willow.  Meathead is the smarter one from Arizona.

I don't know if I should find this flattering, amusing, humorous, or sarcastic.   I think I'm going to go with humorous .  

[The emperor has no clothes]

Thanks Willow...I was pointing my finger at the wrong person! I went in an edited it; sorry Meathead. Just shows what dem cursed six into sixes will do to your brain, if you don't wear earplugs!!

No biggie.

[Alien]

Willow, I don't disagree with you at all.  (I knew that would happen someday ).  I run unbaffled 6 into 6 pipes on the Mothership and, like you I wear earplugs.  I generally ride alone but when I do ride in a pack, I prefer the rear.  I have been rear ended twice by other motorcyclists who apparently can't see a 300 pound man on a blue, cream and chrome 1000 pound motorcycle directly in front of them. 

I like my loud pipes, but I ride respectfully and can keep them pretty quiet when needed.

Ride safe and see you at Inzane,

Alien

[Danny McMillin]

Sorry bout dat, Meathead! After reading Willows' post, I glanced up and saw yo name...Meathead! Everything else just fell into place. Glad you got a sense of humor!

[John Schmidt]

Well Carl, kudos my friend. Seems we think alike in most areas covered....scary, huh?    And, that includes the earplugs for the same reason; wind noise. I don't wear them around town because I'm seldom going fast enough to create the wind buffeting on the ears. But if I'm headed out to meet some others for a lunch ride and know I'm going to be hitting a "moderate" speed, out they come and in they go. Years ago when flying little puddle jumpers using headsets of that day's technology, I always used ear plugs under them and could still hear fine. I'll turn 78 in less than a month, and to this day I can be in our bedroom and hear the thermostat click on/off from ~50' away. Even my grandkids don't like to watch TV with me because they can't hear it. As for the loud pipe syndrome, the only type that bug me are the straight HD type that you can hear coming a mile away. I don't have a problem with the 6x6 versions on the Valkyrie, I don't have them in respect to my wife's request....they apparently are too much for her. Mine have a nice rumble and my neighbors tell me they know when I go by due to the low, powerful sound they hear. Once rolling at speed, they really start to bark around 3k and above.....more so and sooner if I remove the baffles. I use them in town in deference to my neighbors taste for peaceful existence.

As an aside....some time back at a stoplight, I asked this young pup why he kept goosing the throttle on his HD while sitting still, is he afraid the engine is going to quit on him. His pipes were quite loud and was obviously irritating drivers around us. He mumbled something under his breath and sat back in the seat, no longer hitting the throttle every five seconds. I got a few thumbs up from drivers near by.

[RainMaker]

Glad you feel better.  

My opinion (since you are addressing it) remains unchanged.  

Ape hangers are fine.  Windshields are fine. Car tires - no problem.  Dino oil instead of synthetic - no issues.  Loud pipes are fine, but if you ride with a group I am in or am leading, I ask those bikes to ride in the back of the group because not everyone likes the sound of loud pipes.  Why should other riders have to wear earplugs to accommodate the loud pipes of another bike?  

The term "loud pipes" is not very definitive.  Not all modified stock or other non-stock pipes are "loud".  Non-baffled, straight cut pipes that rattle windows are probably defined by most as "loud".  It's all subjective.  If the rider himself (or herself) is complaining about the pipes being too loud on their bike (as in the post that started this) then those could be "loud pipes".

Riding at the back of the group is itself a compromise for both parties.  Everyone still rides.  The sound dissipates to the rear.  Telling folks to be lone wolves is not a compromise position.  Telling those who don't want to listen to the loud pipes that their opinion is a prejudicial view and to just ride isn't a compromise position, either.

To date, not one person has been upset by the request to ride at the back of the group.  Until now.  

If the loud pipe rider is leading the group, each rider has the option of riding or not riding in the group.  In that situation, I always volunteer to be tail gunner so as to be as far away as possible, at the back of the group. 

Based on the tenor of the posts so far, I appear to be in the minority.  I also know that I've never seen a post or topic on the board that changed anyone's way of thinking.  And that's a good thing, in my view.  But it's nice to have a place where you can voice your opinion.

Again, I am glad you feel better and always appreciate your point of view, even when different from my own.

RainMaker  

[msb]

I find nothing offensive with anything in the original post, but I also am never offended when someone respectively asks (the key being Respectively Asks) me to ride behind them. I run Dragon Packs on my Valk and they are reasonably loud, but I think that the main objection to them from some is more the tone at high speed for long periods on longer rides. I like the sound of my exhaust which is why I have the setup I do... but I am also not an idiot who revs the engine unnecessarily just to get attention. My co-pilot and I rarely run in large groups, but we do have a small group locally that we have done multi day rides with (Victory, Ultra Classic, Royal Star Tour) and they do prefer me to ride in the back on longer hauls. I am meeting up with some members from ND whom Ive  never met before on my way to InZane this June , and if they're not fond of the sound of my exhaust, I won't have an issue with taking up the rear. Not a fan at all of riding in the middle of a group and taking the lead through territories I'm not familiar with probably isn't the best idea, so I will happily tag along in the rear if desired

[hubcapsc]

On my way to meet up with the Wild Bunch (they all have loud
pipes) at Tellico Plains recently I caught up with a group
of harleys on 68. One of them had the awfullest loudest pipes
you ever heard, shrill... and they backfired POP
everytime he let off on the throttle. After I couldn't take it anymore
I pulled off at the Davis Mountain Deli and drank some water and
waited a while until the horrible annoyance drifted off into the
distance. It never occurred to me to tell the other guy where to
ride   ...

Another Harley rider had got bunched up behind me after I
got caught in the backfire-logjam, and he pulled over at the
Deli to make sure I was alright... "are you OK? What's that
horrible sound?"


-Mike

[Danny McMillin]

Think you and I agree for the most part. What I said, and I quote: If you are enjoying your ride, and for any reason, keeping others from doing so, may I suggest you become a member of the "Lone Wolf Club". Riding within a group is a compromise in every way. If you want to ride faster, you won't ride with the group. Slower, you won't ride with the group. Want to stop, or change direction, you won't ride with the group. If you are constantly pulling in different directions from the group, in order to enjoy yourself, and allow others to enjoy also, you are a "Lone Wolf". Nutting wrong with "Lone Wolf"---Dat's da' name of my bike!!!

[Crazyhorse]

Carl after reading your post I don't think I will be able to sleep tonight.

[Disco]

Love ya, Carl, and like several others I say save your seething for something truly important.  

With the Libertarian "my right to swing my fist ends at the tip of your nose" in mind...

Notwithstanding the facts that I'm friends with and have logged many miles with the giver of the advice that so bothered you, listening to loud pipes for more than a few seconds sucks.  That's why I (and, for their own hearing's sake, everyone else should) ride with earplugs.  Every time.  I mow the yard with earplugs.  I wear earplugs at concerts.  Heck, I even sleep with earplugs sometimes.  How did I develop my strong reliance on earplugs you might ask?  My Bee had 2Bros 6X6 pipes when I bought it.  A few miles later and I had molded earplugs.  Dallas to Johnson City for IZVIII condemned the pipes for anything other than short jaunts and it didn't take long before they were swapped for the much more tolerable 18" glasspacks.  It didn't take long before those were swapped for unmolested IS pipes.  Aaaahhhh  I do like the warm rumble and occasional bark, so I'll probably wind up with a pair of 24" glasspacks at some point.

Do loud pipes make more people aware of something present?  Sure.  Do those people always know where that something is?  No, but at least they might look.  Do loud pipes save lives?  Possibly.  Do loud pipes piss people off?  Yep.  Do they aggravate other drivers to the point they might squeeze a loud bike off the road?  Possibly.  Do they help with SIDSYM head-on left-turners?  Probably not, because exhaust noise goes out the back and most hazards to motorcycles are in what, a 40 to 60-degree arc centered in front of you.  Don't take the last sentence from me - it's from another multi-Valkyrie riding buddy / former moto cop & accident reconstructor.  

If one is relying on their pipes to keep a cage from drifting into their lane and squeezing them out, they are riding in the wrong position in relation to the cage in the first place.  Are there ways other than loud pipes to make one's presence known?  Yes.  My main one is called BigBF Quad-Horns.  Yellow & black, chrome, and lots of bright lights help, too.  

With all that said, why would anyone blanch at being asked to take their loud pipes to the back of the pack?  Heck, I always volunteered.  I still had fun and didn't foist my setup (or preference) onto anyone else.  Hopefully, that helped them have fun, too.  

BTW, do you think loud pipes might have helped prevent me getting rear-ended on the 'wing?  Yeah, me neither...  

[J.Mencalice]

Noise, by simple definition, is unwanted sound.  Sound that is not perceived by a person as being pleasant, but rather is unpleasant or unwelcome.  Take it from there.  Perception is the key word.

Some individuals find their zen in quietude and some find it in a cacophony.
"I love the smell of napalm in the morning."-Lt. Colonel Kilgore (Robert Duvall)

Well, Willow, unless we had a pot of coffee (and maybe a scootch of Bailey's/Kaluah in it) to discuss this over, I'll respectfully leave it at that.

[Smokinjoe-VRCCDS#0005]

I've had as many as 40 to 50 bikes riding behind me most all of them Valkyrie's . Never had anyone bitch about my pipes . With a group that large its mainly " You're going to fast " .... " You're going to slow " .

[Jess from VA]

I've never heard of putting loud pipes in the back of a group ride.  The SCRC folks I ride with put the rookies in back (with an experienced, usually CB'd tailgunner behind them), and I like that idea.... so they don't fall down in front of me (call me selfish).  The rookies are good with it too (since in any group ride, when the line gets broken up with someone continually hanging back, that guy gets passed by one after another, and they end up in back anyway by natural selection).  

I'm with Mike, if a bike (pipes or rider) near you bothers you for any reason, you should politely maneuver to another spot away from them (or take a break if on your own).  I don't mind most valk pipes I've ever heard, but I will not ride close to straight pipes (or others that loud) (or a chronic throttle doosh), for very long.  I've always been able to move myself around without making a big deal about it.

A smart guy can walk round before the ride, kick tires, listen to guys pulling in, and pick a spot away from the Pipe Monster(s) before you even leave.      

[G-Man]

I've never heard of putting loud pipes in the back of a group ride.  The SCRC folks I ride with put the rookies in back (with an experienced, usually CB'd tailgunner behind them), and I like that idea.... so they don't fall down in front of me (call me selfish).   

That's too funny.  I have been on rides with the Southern Cruisers up here in NY and NJ.  Loud pipes went towards the back and the inexperienced were up front. 

Now when I say loud, I mean LOUD.  Not like cut piggies and drilled baffles.  Loud like no mufflers at all off of V-Twins.  I'd rather not listen to that on a long ride, but, what are you gonna do?

[Moonshot_1]

Never occurred to me to ask the rider of a loud obnoxious bike to go to the back.
I've just either put up with it or moved elsewhere in the group.

It would be an act of respect that those who do have such bikes to find their way towards the rear of the group as a consideration to others if it is reasonable and feasible. (If you have such a bike and are leading the group it wouldn't be reasonable to lead from behind unless you are Obama. )

As to the "Loud pipes save lives" thought. I wouldn't necessarily agree with that. Sure you could find time where it may have made the surrounding drivers more aware of you. But I used to have a really loud bike. Straight piped 1100 ACE Shadow. Now I have a Valk with standard exhaust. Whisper quiet.

My opinion, the Valk is the safer bike because I can hear the traffic around me. I can hear the car or truck coming up from behind. I can even hear the pitch of the accelerating or decelerating bike that is ahead of me in a group ride. Couldn't hardly hear any of that on the Shadow. Had some close ones with the Shadow too.  

Today's cars and trucks, with the sound proofing, windows up, A/C on, stereo on, and road noise the loud pipes get drowned out pretty easily.  I like to hear them coming and not trust they can hear and be aware of me.

[Hook#3287]

When my brother in law and I rode together, his hd heritage with straight pipes would be down right painful to the person behind him on his right.


 We made him ride in the back and he didn't care.

[Jess from VA]

I've never heard of putting loud pipes in the back of a group ride.  The SCRC folks I ride with put the rookies in back (with an experienced, usually CB'd tailgunner behind them), and I like that idea.... so they don't fall down in front of me (call me selfish).    

That's too funny.  I have been on rides with the Southern Cruisers up here in NY and NJ.  Loud pipes went towards the back and the inexperienced were up front.  

Now when I say loud, I mean LOUD.  Not like cut piggies and drilled baffles.  Loud like no mufflers at all off of V-Twins.  I'd rather not listen to that on a long ride, but, what are you gonna do?

When teaching rookies in a group of 3-5, keeping them up front can be best... for the rookies, not everyone else.   When riding with 10-20, our leaders do not slow down (much) for the rookies, so they take up the rear (with a map), and they catch up at periodic stops.  I will not putt along at half speed all day for anyone, nor will a lot of people.  And, having 15 bikes behind you that want to GO, makes rookies nervous and then push their riding beyond their skill set, which is never good.

Also, the local SCRC does regular rookie rides to help them learn.  I miss all those.   I have personally taught a number of new riders.  I don't do that anymore either.  

[Hoser]

Much adue about nothing, far as I'm concerned.  ???  Hoser

[Pete]

Well interesting topic and comments.

Many do not ride in groups and noise is only one of the reasons.

There are quiet bikes, and loud bikes and bikes that sound good.

Loud to the point of irritation SUCKS for everyone.

If yours is one of those then you should do the world a favor and you know it.

And no one should have to identify it for you, You should be responsible enough to fix the issue.

Yes we know many are not responsible enough and it is a shame they are not.

There are examples of it every day on the highway and it sucks period.

[Michvalk]

This thread is the reason I don't do group rides anymore.

[Skinhead]

I never gave it much thought.  I do wear ear plugs at speeds over 50 mph, so pretty much all the time.  I don't want the hearing loss from the wind noise. 

Worse than loud pipes is the bass boomers.  I hate it when that happens.

[Stitch_in_La]

The wife had a sportster 1200 Cobra pipes on it, idling rev it up sounded good, 30 min at road speed almost couldn't think.  Earplugs under the full face for that beast.  With the better sealing of cars now and a/c in the cars I've noticed that even bikes like that you can't hear especially if you have the radio turned up until the bike is almost right beside you anyway.  Cobra 6's on the Valk still used the Stebel scares the crap outa lane drifters.
Chuck

[cookiedough]

If I don't like the sound of pipes in a group ride,  I just waive others on thru upfront more and I ride further back is all.    Common courtesy is where it is at and if I don't like following loud pipes for a very long ride,  I will just back off, no biggie. 

I think the cobras sound cool and tough,  but I wouldn't ride them all the time would get annoying to me anyways unable to hear my music.    Even at over 70 mph on my stock windshield I/S,  the wind and engine noise make it almost impossible to listen to my tunes, don't need loud pipes to make it worse on my stock I/S pipes. 

[Medina]

odd. I'm VERY opinionated about....well, everything...and I find it impossible to care where "in line" I'm asked to ride, whoever organized the ride, let them sort by color, year, sound....man I must be getting old

[Mr Whiskey]

Do they help with........?  Probably not, because exhaust noise goes out the back......

You are kidding, right?
You can hear me half mile out......& I'm ridin' a Wing
(With unbaffled Cobras.)

As to the "Loud pipes save lives" thought. I wouldn't necessarily agree with that. Sure you could find time where it may have made the surrounding drivers more aware of you.

I'm runnin' "forest rats" back up into the forest, definitely safer.
Other drivers are jus' an occasional added bonus

Willow, great topic
Whole reason I'm "jones'n" to rat rod the wrecked 2K/IS
is because TBird hooked me up with a rough set of Cobras
to cut down & cerakote!
RudeDog's...........  
https://youtu.be/COJkmWY5EgE
"Can you hear me now?"
BaWaaHaHaHaHa

[MarkT]

Reminds me I was on a small group ride years ago, for 10 days and all over Utah.  One of the guys in front of me had a Rifle SS windshield which set up such horrible turbulence my bike was bouncing all over the place.  I had to find a position where his turbulence didn't hit me.  So yeah, his windshield was a problem for me.  I even mentioned it to him, but didn't ask him to do anything.  I don't recall if that was before I got rid of my SS shield which was like a barn door, or after I got a Hondaline shield but before I tipped it.  Don't think so on the latter though, as I tipped it immediately having done the same on the Rifle and found it's advantages.

On the loud pipes.  Don't care much for them myself.  I build pipes that have adjustable sound.  None are as obnoxious as a loud harley.  I lost 40% of my hearing in the war.  Kinda protective of it now. What's left. I've found wind noise is a bigger problem but I can't get ear plugs in my tiny ear holes.  Have to wear muffs at the range. Deerslayer, my glasspack 5" turnouts aren't as loud as the wind.  Jade has silencers & Organ Pipes with a wad of SS wool inside.  Really pleasant rumble around town, can't hear them over the wind on the road. Perfect. I like my tunes. The Wing has stock pipes - appropriate for the genre. The Magna has stockers.  George has my custom hybrid glasspacks.  Nice sound but never obnoxious.  No one has ever asked me to ride in back for the noise.  But none are very loud.

[Karen]

Carl, I was feeling left out until you mentioned women drivers.      Thanks!      

[DirtyDan]

been my experience that the louder the pipes the closer to the back they end up anyway

dan

[fudgie]

Good post willow. 

Food for thought:
 Maybe instead of loud pipes ride in the back, the ones that dont like them should ride in the front.