I need to vent

[Binkie]

I can't believe the BS the American public puts up with. One of my sons, Jason, is in the USAF and stationed at Seymore Johnson AF base in Goldsboro NC. His squadron is being deployed to the UAE so him and his wife decided to take a weekend getaway to Washington DC. On the way back home Jay got nailed for doing 10 mph over the limit in Virginia. In Virginia that is a reckless driving charge which is a class one misdemeanor. Since he was deploying and had a ton of other stuff to do he just paid the $280 ticket not realizing the ramifications. I get a notice in the mail from from the Michigan Sec. Of State. He never changed his license to NC . I was going to throw it out thinking it was just
 A renewal notice but instead I just opened it. Well, the State is revoking his license for 3 months because of the reckless driving charge. So I call him and let him know. Now he has to hire a Virgina Lawyer for $650 to represent him. The lawyer goes to court this Thursday to ask for the ticket to get reopened. If that happens then it is another $150. His lawyer thinks the Judge will dismiss the ticket since he is active military and deploying. If that happens he will still have to pay $175 to reinstate his license. All this for 10 mph over the speed limit. Why do the people of Virginia put up with this BS. I'm all for the punishment matching the crime but this is just excessive. And the politicians, lawyers and cops wonder why the public has the opinion they do about the legal system. Enough of my ranting...thanks for listening.

[The emperor has no clothes]

I agree with you. That is bullshit ! 

[Gryphon Rider]

I found this article, which is informative.
http://jalopnik.com/what-every-driver-should-know-about-speeding-in-virgini-1669902845

It says that a reckless driving ticket is issued when you are 20 or more over the limit, or if your speed is 80 or more, even if the speed limit is 70, as it is on interstates.  I don't think I would buy a vehicle without cruise control if I had to regularly drive/ride in Virginia.

[_Sheffjs_]

10 over is automatically reckless driving?  If this is true, that's ridiculous.  If not, perhaps there is more to the story than your son is telling you.

I would be in for life!!  

[DirtyDan]

"If this is true, that's ridiculous"

It IS true and it's ridiculous. I got pulled over in Virginia in 2014 for like 15ish over. The Virginia state trooper told me basically the same thing 10 or more over is automatically "reckless" driving.

Cop wrote me for 9 over he was a gentleman about things

But yeah that's what runaway government brings us. Virginia was bad now its getting worse

If its AUTOMATICLY reckless what happens when one is speeding AND driving reckless ?

they would need another offence to cover what USED to be reckless

cant wait to move to Arizona

Dan

[..]

The legal voters of VA deserve the Govt they voted for/couldn't be bothered to vote for. Simple as that.

[signart]

The legal voters of VA deserve the Govt they voted for/couldn't be bothered to vote for. Simple as that.

True dat

[Ice]

I usually do not chime in on these types of topics, however being a former LEO in Va. I figured I could add my two cents to it. Driving infractions in Va. are a strange thing, and Va. was one of the last states to up the limit from 65 to 70.
The laws are somewhat antiquated and need updating, however it takes something like pulling over a Senator or Congressman to get a change initiated. I know, years ago I pulled a Va. Senator for 60 in a 45 and could not give him a ticket due to the Senate being in session, which makes them exempt from the law  he argued that the speed limit for the road was too slow and should be at least 55, and I told him that I have no control of that, not issuing the ticket I so desperately wanted to do, but two months later the speed limit was 55 on that road, interesting I thought. 
It used to be that when you crossed the state line from Tn. to Va. on I81 you see 10-15 Va. state guys waiting for you to pass into Va. and they would nail you.
And yes doing anything over 80 in Va. is considered RD, however the officer has discretion (unless the law changed) to issue a simple speeding ticket instead of RD. Must have been a State Trooper that gave the ticket, they don't care who you are and will write the ticket. I think they teach how to be an ass in the Va. State Police Academy. Most of them are, and I worked with them.
I hope it works out for your son and the ticket is dropped. As for changing his drivers license, that is not required for military unless you change your home of record.

[Jess from VA]

Welcome to my world.

I've written of this before.  Ten over alone is not reckless, standing alone, unless you get caught at (or over) 80 in a posted 70 (freeways only).  It can also be automatic reckless if you are 20 over any posted speed limit, anywhere.  If at 20 over you are not weaving, or doing other foolish stuff (or not in a 25mph neighborhood), the cop can chose to just write the speed and not the reckless, at his discretion.  But I am hearing the Troopers on the freeways are always giving the reckless for 80 on any freeway.

Of course, from a lawyer's point of view, a law that allows a discretionary reckless for speed alone should be challenged.  Reckless means a willful, wanton driving behavior putting yourself and others at risk of life and limb.  In most all states, this means that the police and prosecutor must show evidence of erratic behavior in addition to simple speed (especially speed in a straight line, broad daylight, no rain/snow/ice, no weaving, no failing to signal, no aggressive driving, no cutting people off, just motoring straight and level in a safe manner on a clean road.  If they can show this kind of driving, it can be reckless at ANY speed.  

Looking at it another way, no one would stand still for first degree murder charges being levied for every unlawful killing, without evidence/proof of plan, design, scheme, lying in wait, plans, preparation, predisposition, specific intent to kill. Facing the death penalty for say a negligent discharge of a firearm resulting in an unintended death would be wrong.

What automatic reckless charges for speed alone do is simply reduce the burden of proof to the state to no more than the readings on a radar/lidar gun.  Pure speed alone could justify a reckless in certain limited circumstances (like 20 over in a school zone full of kids, or through a traffic backup/accident scene, or on a sheet of ice with cars off the road everywhere.  But not just going straight down an empty highway in the center of your lane on a perfect sunny day.  It may be illegal, but it is not reckless (as reckless has been defined for hundreds of years).

I've been here going on 25 years, and we have never been offered a vote on the issue... and you know why.  Liberal and conservative alike would vote this crap down in complete harmony.

 (Besides challenging the law) what is really needed in the meantime are great big signs on I-81 and I-95 (and a couple others) upon crossing into VA, that 80 means automatic reckless, so those just blowing through are put on fair notice. There are such signs all over the state for buckling up.  Since no other state in the union has such laws (and virtually all out-of-staters are wholly ignorant of the law), it makes the whole state a SPEED TRAP, especially on the freeways being used by those out-of-staters.
  

[kybigmac]

Sounds like me and any money I would spend should stay away from Virginia!

[old2soon]

As a retired over the road driver I DESPISED virginia. Most states if you weren't over gross but were say 500 lbs over on an axle would let you go on down the road. virginia on the other hand did NOT believe you should even be 50 lbs over on an axle. Go on ahead and ASK me HOW I know that! Whenever I was passing thru virginia I passed on thru making it a point to spend NONE of MY Money in virginia. My small personal rebellion against virginia.  At one time in my life while driving professionally I could lift off the throttle shed a few M P Hs and lo and behold there was a radar squad and I was slowed own sometimes without really realizing it til I saw the squad. Like a 6th sense or something. Course it was NEVER perfect. Had my share of high speed driving awards. No where NEAR my fair share but enough to keep me honest.  Apoligize fer the hijack but to this day virginia STILL rankles my ass!    RIDE SAFE.

[Valkjerk]

OTS, there are good cops and bad cops everywhere and it's a complete crapshoot as to which one you will encounter at any given time. The worst cops as a group are in Florida and I have posted about my experiences long ago. Binkie, my only issue with you is.......you shouldn't post, for public edification, about your son's deployment time or destination. "Loose lips sink ships". No ill intent intended.

[The emperor has no clothes]

OTS, there are good cops and bad cops everywhere and it's a complete crapshoot as to which one you will encounter at any given time. The worst cops as a group are in Florida and I have posted about my experiences long ago. Binkie, my only issue with you is.......you shouldn't post, for public edification, about your son's deployment time or destination. "Loose lips sink ships". No ill intent intended.

I think it's pretty common knowledge that we have troops there. He gave no specific info.

[G-Man]

OTS, there are good cops and bad cops everywhere and it's a complete crapshoot as to which one you will encounter at any given time. The worst cops as a group are in Florida and I have posted about my experiences long ago. Binkie, my only issue with you is.......you shouldn't post, for public edification, about your son's deployment time or destination. "Loose lips sink ships". No ill intent intended.

I agree there's good and bad in every job, but cops know what they're doing.  I drive between NY and D.C. 5 - 6 times a year.  I've gotten two tickets for doing nothing wrong on two separate instances.  The officers, both times, let me know they were doing me a favor by writing me for an offense with no points, just a fine, and no appearance.  I bet thousands of out of state drivers in the VA and DE areas get blasted with these foolish tickets.  Everybody just pays.  Nobody will take the time to appear for these to fight them.  One of the instances involved me pulling into a gas station, the gas pump had a cover over the handle with a sign that said out of order, so I proceeded through the gas station exiting as if I would have made a right turn at the corner the gas station was on.  Cop pulled me over saying I drove thorough the gas station to avoid the red light.  I told him that I was looking for gas and even showed him my gas gauge on less that 1/8 of a tank.  Got a ticket for illegally parking on a highway.  No points, he was doing me a favor.  $80 plus fees. 

[Gavin_Sons]

OTS, there are good cops and bad cops everywhere and it's a complete crapshoot as to which one you will encounter at any given time. The worst cops as a group are in Florida and I have posted about my experiences long ago. Binkie, my only issue with you is.......you shouldn't post, for public edification, about your son's deployment time or destination. "Loose lips sink ships". No ill intent intended.

I agree there's good and bad in every job, but cops know what they're doing.  I drive between NY and D.C. 5 - 6 times a year.  I've gotten two tickets for doing nothing wrong on two separate instances.  The officers, both times, let me know they were doing me a favor by writing me for an offense with no points, just a fine, and no appearance.  I bet thousands of out of state drivers in the VA and DE areas get blasted with these foolish tickets.  Everybody just pays.  Nobody will take the time to appear for these to fight them.  One of the instances involved me pulling into a gas station, the gas pump had a cover over the handle with a sign that said out of order, so I proceeded through the gas station exiting as if I would have made a right turn at the corner the gas station was on.  Cop pulled me over saying I drove thorough the gas station to avoid the red light.  I told him that I was looking for gas and even showed him my gas gauge on less that 1/8 of a tank.  Got a ticket for illegally parking on a highway.  No points, he was doing me a favor.  $80 plus fees. 

I would have told that jerk off exactly where to put it then I would have seen him in court. I cant stand crooked cops. Everyone is human and they should treat you as so. It's almost like they are trained these days to expect everyone to be a criminal. There is no innocent until proven guilty anymore, everyone is guilty until proven innocent.   

[art]

While living in Az. I got stopped three times for speeding,twice on my Valk and once in my 68 red Mustang. I went to court for one MC ticket and the judge was a biker and let me off with a slap on the wrist. The other MC ticket I talked my way out of it after he inspected my pistol mounted on the bike. The one with the Mustang was funny. The cop asked me if I knew why he stopped me. I said it was because I was driving a red vintage Mustang. He said no and that's when I started to kid around with him about red cars and cops. Got a few laughs from him. He then found out we both were from around Boston,Ma. After shooting the bull he said goodby and take it easy. Az. cops for the most do have a seance of humor.

[Raider]

I'll put money on it, he was on I-95 between the NC border and exit 33.  HORRIBLE speed trap! I have to drive it at least twice a month and can't count the number of staties there.  One gave me a ticket or an honest 6 over.  No breaks, no discussion, just a ticket!

I always stop at the border going north and at the Davis on exit 33 going south just to getout of the car and allow my body to recalibrate.  I also spend a few minutes warning anyone with out of VA plates.     Some listen, others get irritated for me even talking to them; I usually see them pulled over a few miles later!   

[Jess from VA]

FWIW, while VA may have some pretty tough laws and enforcement (all these guys follow dept policy), they are mostly very polite, professional and well trained (and all Troopers are)... if you are.  And straight up on what they write (of course I cannot speak to every locality downstate).

Everywhere else I lived, I got more breaks from minor to medium tickets than in VA.  They write more, everywhere.  I have been told by my county cops on several occasions that they are prohibited from writing lesser included offenses (like taking miles or even one mile off).  I have been let go with nothing, maybe twice in 20+ years, but that's it.  (I am not pulled over monthly, more like annually..... like a birthday present) (nearly always in the car, only one moving violation on a bike, which is certainly not what I deserve)

They also use some of the sneakiest unmarked cars I have ever seen.  Maybe if you got out of the your car and did a close inspection, you could tell, but not in traffic.  I look pretty hard, but the late ninties red beater Ford Taurus wagon, and the VW Golf both caught me red handed.  The last guy did tell me to look for blacked out windshields (since they are in full uniform inside) in violation of VA's strict front window tinting rules (medial exceptions can get a darker tint, but not blacked out).  He was polite and so was I, but I still got the full ticket on radar.

Hey, it's not like we're not on notice.  Out in the country you can have all the fun you want, but not in town or major throughways.

[scooperhsd]

If you want to use cruise control in VA on I95 between Richmond and DC - forget about it !! Also in the DC Metro area (any highway). Traffic is generally too heavy or too unpredictable to comfortably use cruise.

BTW - those of you driving through VA - be aware that radar detectors are also illegal .

And I have spent plenty of time in / driving through VA - I used to live in Reston while I was stationed at the Navy Yard, and every 2 years we go though on our way to Wife's family reunion near Havre de Grace MD. And amazingly - neither of us have EVER gotten any tickets there - just lucky and obsessive attention to the speedometer.

[Tourus]

     After reading this I'm fuming. That F---ing trooper probably breaks there reckless driving law every time he drives but will always get away with it like the senator. Members of our military are much more needed than a traffic cop or a do nothing senator. I would not go to  virgypya  if someone paid for everything I ask for. Election are coming up but nothing will change just different assholes. And as far as that traffic cop he has to live with his crappy life every day. Maybe by treating our members in the military like that is how you climb the ladder in Virginia    I think this needs more exposure but for now its all about the presidential clowns or how big Kim's ass is.

[dinosnake]

It's all about the money.  They can hem and haw until the cows come home, but police all over America have ticket quotas to meet and those quotas are handed down from on-high when budgets are passed.  It is a disgusting racket, should be charged with racketeering, and the police made to do more proper work than act as revenue enforcement enhancers.  Go to the police with a bounced check or stolen item and you'll actually get a "Not our problem" reply - then what the hell do you guys actually do, besides coffee breaks and traffic stops??!

[Tourus]

It's all about the money.  They can hem and haw until the cows come home, but police all over America have ticket quotas to meet and those quotas are handed down from on-high when budgets are passed.  It is a disgusting racket, should be charged with racketeering, and the police made to do more proper work than act as revenue enforcement enhancers.  Go to the police with a bounced check or stolen item and you'll actually get a "Not our problem" reply - then what the hell do you guys actually do, besides coffee breaks and traffic stops??!

  I agree it is all about money. I noticed the last week of March that almost every road I was on someone was getting a ticket. Some of the back road where it's 30mph I set my cruise control. The town I grew up in in south Florida our neighbor was a commissioner and would warn us about the end of the month quotas. I don't think they care about how it effects your insurance as long as they get their money. I have not had a ticket in over 30 year but before that had my share. I think if your younger your more likely to get a ticket than a warning. Now that I have bragged about no tickets for over 30 years I had better watch out especially on the valk that has a hard time staying 10 under.

[Gryphon Rider]

Az. cops for the most do have a seance of humor.

[G-Man]

OTS, there are good cops and bad cops everywhere and it's a complete crapshoot as to which one you will encounter at any given time. The worst cops as a group are in Florida and I have posted about my experiences long ago. Binkie, my only issue with you is.......you shouldn't post, for public edification, about your son's deployment time or destination. "Loose lips sink ships". No ill intent intended.

I agree there's good and bad in every job, but cops know what they're doing.  I drive between NY and D.C. 5 - 6 times a year.  I've gotten two tickets for doing nothing wrong on two separate instances.  The officers, both times, let me know they were doing me a favor by writing me for an offense with no points, just a fine, and no appearance.  I bet thousands of out of state drivers in the VA and DE areas get blasted with these foolish tickets.  Everybody just pays.  Nobody will take the time to appear for these to fight them.  One of the instances involved me pulling into a gas station, the gas pump had a cover over the handle with a sign that said out of order, so I proceeded through the gas station exiting as if I would have made a right turn at the corner the gas station was on.  Cop pulled me over saying I drove thorough the gas station to avoid the red light.  I told him that I was looking for gas and even showed him my gas gauge on less that 1/8 of a tank.  Got a ticket for illegally parking on a highway.  No points, he was doing me a favor.  $80 plus fees. 

I would have told that jerk off exactly where to put it then I would have seen him in court. I cant stand crooked cops. Everyone is human and they should treat you as so. It's almost like they are trained these days to expect everyone to be a criminal. There is no innocent until proven guilty anymore, everyone is guilty until proven innocent.   

I agree, but would have cost me at least two trips, because the cop never appears at the first one (NEVER), and more that $120 worth of my gas, tolls, and time.  THAT's the point of ticketing the out of town drivers.