Bill promotes wider availability of unsafe E15 fuel

[98valk]

Bill promotes wider availability of unsafe E15 fuel
please take action, otherwise all carbureted motorcycles will all need to be rejetted and tuned just to safely run. And per the bill signed by Bush jr E20 is next on their agenda. both cause greatly reduced MPG causing the American people to buy more fuel more often.
https://cqrcengage.com/amacycle/app/write-a-letter?7&engagementId=195353

https://cqrcengage.com/amacycle/Federal

[MP]

Why is ethanol "unsafe"?  Does it explode more?  What danger does it present, over regular gas?

Safety wise.

I, and many others, have been running ethanol for decades, with NO problems.  I cannot tell any mpg difference either. But, none of that is "safety" related.

[cookiedough]

E15 not so sure engines not capable of E85 will have any issues, even our 6 carb Valks.

Personally, I don't want to find out either.

I do know running E85 in my former trucks capable of E85 both chevy silverado and toyota tundra's loose 3-4 mpg which is equivalent to a 25-30% reduction in mpg and unless the E85 is 25-30% cheaper at the pump, which it is NOT now,  is NOT worth buying E85.

Plus,  E85 does not help performance wise and caused both my newer trucks to shift hard/not as smooth. 

[MP]

There is a HUGE difference between E15 and E85 though.  One mostly gas, the other mostly alcohol.  Regular engines cannot run E85.

[cookiedough]

There is a HUGE difference between E15 and E85 though.  One mostly gas, the other mostly alcohol.  Regular engines cannot run E85.

yah that is obvious I would think to most.

E15 is still not good for engines of any kind that I know of or will use. 

Why push the crap if, despite what the idiots say in D.C.,  we all know it is not good for engines? 

[98valk]

Why is ethanol "unsafe"?  Does it explode more?  What danger does it present, over regular gas?

Safety wise.

I, and many others, have been running ethanol for decades, with NO problems.  I cannot tell any mpg difference either. But, none of that is "safety" related.

It has been well documented many times that E10 provides lower MPG than non-E10, it is usually slightly more than 1 mpg. so u are having a problem u just don't know realize it.
when they went to E10 in my state I had to slightly adjust my jetting due to my airbox and exhaust mods. I run it on the lean side during cruise RPMs, was too lean with the E10.
ethanol has less BTU energy content than gasoline. so power is down also.
ethanol makes an engine run leaner, the more ethanol the more lean it becomes. E15 and then E20 could easily burn a hole in a piston due to the leanness. Hence unsafe in most engines.

not mention that ethanol actually causes more harmful pollution.

[solo1]

The farmers all seem to want more ethanol production since it is a big market for their corn crop.

I'm no expert but I think that's why it's being pushed, the almighty dollar $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[Firefighter]

The ethanol attracts water also, which if you don't ride the bike often enough will damage the carbs. Here in south Texas we have problems with rubber hoses and gas caps deteriorating or anything plastic, the ethanol fuel will swell it or just deteriorate parts. If they increase the ethanol, you will see a decrease in performance and fuel economy. Like watering down your whisky, so far, gasoline gives us our best bang for the buck. Don't have my owners manual handy but think the Valk. can handle up to 10%.

I think the environmentalist voters are the main reason for this nonsense, not the farmers.

[saddlebag]

"I think the environmentalist voters are the main reason for this nonsense, not the farmers."

This statement is a bunch of bunk......Do some research into corporate farming and the ethanol lobby.
The  Agriculture Industry is at the top of the welfare heap.

[MP]

I am not advocating higher than 10%.

Our local farm supply coop has been selling the ethanol since, I believe, the 80's?  Whenever it came out.  So, that is what we get.  We buy there, and they deliver to our larger fuel tanks on the farm.

We have never had a problem.  I have not heard of any other members having a problem.  Might be some, but not much.

Now, I live in a dry area.  I do think those that live in a more humid area might have more problems.

The subsidies are gone.

One problem is that, to reduce emissions and meet the standards, SOME type of oxygenator must be added.  They used to use another chemical, some fancy long name, BUT, it was causing cancer.  Ethanol does not.  So, I do not know IF there is another oxygenator available to use.

MP

[MP]

"I think the environmentalist voters are the main reason for this nonsense, not the farmers."

This statement is a bunch of bunk......Do some research into corporate farming and the ethanol lobby.
The  Agriculture Industry is at the top of the welfare heap.

Guess I am now on the top of the "welfare heap".  Oh well. Better than the top of the dung heap!

Remember, the ethanol subsidies went away several years ago.

FYI, I do not live in a corn growing region, not enough rain for corn.  Corn is the feed stock for the vast majority of ethanol.  So, I gain nothing personally.

Engines ARE required to meet emissions standards.  Pure gasoline, without some type of oxygenator, will NOT meet those standards.  The chemical that used to be used, was found to cause cancer, and has been outlawed.

As far as I know, ethanol is the only viable option to meet those emission standards.  Did farmers or environmentalists enact those standards?  You decide.

MP

[Alpha Dog]

"I think the environmentalist voters are the main reason for this nonsense, not the farmers."

This statement is a bunch of bunk......Do some research into corporate farming and the ethanol lobby.
The  Agriculture Industry is at the top of the welfare heap.

Guess I am now on the top of the "welfare heap".  Oh well. Better than the top of the dung heap!

Remember, the ethanol subsidies went away several years ago.

FYI, I do not live in a corn growing region, not enough rain for corn.  Corn is the feed stock for the vast majority of ethanol.  So, I gain nothing personally.

Engines ARE required to meet emissions standards.  Pure gasoline, without some type of oxygenator, will NOT meet those standards.  The chemical that used to be used, was found to cause cancer, and has been outlawed.

As far as I know, ethanol is the only viable option to meet those emission standards.  Did farmers or environmentalists enact those standards?  You decide.

MP

No Corn.  North Dakota is Durham Wheat Country.  At least according to an old friend. I had a friend named Harold Robinson from Minot.  He spent the winters in Palm Springs, CA.  He was elderly then and am sure he has passed as I lost track after moving in 1996.  Great people he and his wife.  Farmed 18,000 acres of Durham Wheat and always bragged it was the best wheat in the world.

[saddlebag]

Here is another idea.......

Another source of ingredients for ethanol conversion is human waste.

         Hey,   everybody poops!

[Wizzard]

I been running E15 in my valk for the last 30k miles and I have had no problems whatsoever. 

[John Schmidt]

As for the 10% mix, I know from personal highway experience that mixture costs me mileage. Just a few years back we were headed for my daughter's place in Louisiana via I-75 to I-10, then west. At the time you couldn't get straight gas in central Florida, or most anywhere else down here. I filled up with that stuff in hopes I could make it to the western border....or close to it. I have the information panel in my dash and one of the things available is MPG, so I decided to watch it on the trip. With the a/c on and the cruise on 73, on the first tank of 10% ethanol I averaged 23+ a fraction. This kept up until I hit the Alabama border, I had to add a little after passing Tallahassee but it lasted until I got to the border. Just across the border I headed for a station a friend in Pensacola told me about. I nearly coasted in and filled up with regular grade straight gas. Setting the cruise at the same speed and the a/c on, within about 25 miles my MPG crept up to over 27 on the straight and level sections, but the overall average was a solid 26+ which isn't bad for a Toyota Highlander SUV. I experienced the same thing on the return trip; good mileage from Lousiana on east until I had to fill up in Florida with the 10% corn liquor. Soon as I did, in much less time the mileage dropped back to the lower 20's. I need to mention, the ethanol fuel used was all hi-test. The result.....I got 3 MPG better on regular grade straight gas than I did on hi-test ethanol. Two years ago going to InZane in Ashville, I experienced the same thing.

I realize the dash monitor isn't scientifically accurate, but it's a good indicator. With the corn liquor gas, I lose 3-4 MPG on average, and it shows in how far I can go before refueling so the dash gauge really does show an overall accurate picture.

[Willow]

As for the 10% mix, I know from personal highway experience that mixture costs me mileage. ... The result.....I got 3 MPG better on regular grade straight gas than I did on hi-test ethanol. Two years ago going to InZane in Ashville, I experienced the same thing.

I realize the dash monitor isn't scientifically accurate, but it's a good indicator. With the corn liquor gas, I lose 3-4 MPG on average, and it shows in how far I can go before refueling so the dash gauge really does show an overall accurate picture.

I don't doubt your results, John, but you can't prove it with your test.  We were long ago instructed to change one thing at a time to determine whether and how much.  You changed from non-ethanol to ethanol but also changed octane at the same time.

I believe it's an age difference.  If we could leave the corn alcohol in the ground for a couple of thousand years it would probably deliver the same fuel mileage as oil based gasoline.

 

[John Schmidt]

You changed from non-ethanol to ethanol but also changed octane at the same time.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I did that purposely, going from hi-test corn liquor to regular grade straight gas. I wanted to see if there was a change, which there appeared to be. A lower grade of straight gas actually gave better performance than hi-test ethanol. Overall, on trips I have to stop to refuel more often with the 10% than on straight gas, in either the SUV or the bike.

A couple weeks back I found a WaWa station that sells non-ethanol so filled the bike up with it. A very noticeable improvement in performance around town and starting was just a bump of the button. Before it would turn over 2-3 times before firing, with the non-E it was "bump" & roar....right now! Surprisingly, it actually ran cooler as well, the following days were warmer and my routes were the same. Again, not scientific but a positive (and pleasant) change. And also, I've found with non-E gas I can actually use a lower grade, whereas with the 10% stuff I have to use at least mid-grade or better. As for leaving it in the ground a couple thousand years, guess I'll have to wait until I'm reincarnated to find out if that worked.....hopefully rich instead of good looking next time. 

[MP]

You changed from non-ethanol to ethanol but also changed octane at the same time.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I did that purposely, going from hi-test corn liquor to regular grade straight gas. I wanted to see if there was a change, which there appeared to be. A lower grade of straight gas actually gave better performance than hi-test ethanol. Overall, on trips I have to stop to refuel more often with the 10% than on straight gas, in either the SUV or the bike.

A couple weeks back I found a WaWa station that sells non-ethanol so filled the bike up with it. A very noticeable improvement in performance around town and starting was just a bump of the button. Before it would turn over 2-3 times before firing, with the non-E it was "bump" & roar....right now! Surprisingly, it actually ran cooler as well, the following days were warmer and my routes were the same. Again, not scientific but a positive (and pleasant) change. And also, I've found with non-E gas I can actually use a lower grade, whereas with the 10% stuff I have to use at least mid-grade or better. As for leaving it in the ground a couple thousand years, guess I'll have to wait until I'm reincarnated to find out if that worked.....hopefully rich instead of good looking next time. 

The higher octane also has less BTU's per gallon, so you were doubling up on reducing BTU's. High test all gas will get less mpg than regular all gas.