Lucky kid

[The emperor has no clothes]

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2016/05/28/police-child-taken-hospital-after-falling-into-gorilla-pen/85095094/

[Hook#3287]

Unlucky Gorilla

[Rams]

Hard for me to say that the zoo doesn't bear any responsibility for what happened but, the real fault lays with the parents or guardians who took this child to the zoo and lost control of him.

I consider going to the zoo similar to walking down the interstate highway at night (or even in day light).   If you have to do it, then you have to be aware of where you are and where your child is (if there is a child with you), you must maintain 100% control.   Hold their hand and not let go, carry them, whatever.  

Yep, they are lucky the kid didn't get hurt and IMHO, it's that person(s) fault the gorilla is dead.   Shameful.  

[Oss]

link froze my screen  had to exit thru task manager

[Robert]

Didn't watch the link but there is no winners in this.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Oh, I would say the kid is a winner. Survived a 12' drop, battled a 400 lb. gorilla. There isn't anybody going to mess with this kid when he gets in school. 

[cookiedough]

I think the mom not watching her kid close enough should have been tossed down next.

Seen it all the time when my kids were younger,  parents not knowing where their kids were at all times under say 4-5 years old.   Not really need to hold hands, but make sure they stay alongside you or are smart enough to do the right thing vs. going under a guard rail and walking into a gorilla or say lion enclosure.    Just be glad it was a gorilla for I bet a lion would more than likely tore that kid to shreds before the parks sharpshooter could have intervened. 

Just yesterday,  I saw a mom and more than likely her very young daughter barely able to ride a bike  with her mom in front of her riding while the kid behind struggles on her own bike.  Stupid,  the kid should be in front of her so she can keep an eye on her especially since the mom appeared she needed to re-learn how to ride a bike herself.   

[Robert]

I find no amusement in this video or the outcome at all. The kid did not battle the gorilla, the gorilla actually looked like it was protecting the boy. This tragedy could have been avoided and it cost the gorilla his life for the negligence of parents. I dont know why the zoo decided to put the gorilla down instead of tranquilizing it they must have had their reasons.

Meathead
I guess you see no consequences or know the cost of bad decisions or actions maybe this is why we have such differences in opinions.

[Hook#3287]

Well, I'll bet a lawyer will be contacting the parents to file a lawsuit against the zoo.

Maybe rightfully so.  There should not have been access.  

IMHO, the parents are responsible.  But watching a 4 yr old every second has got to be a very tuff job.

[Gavin_Sons]

I put most of the blame on the zoo for not having a fence that will keep small kids out. If you have a public attraction you have to make everything idiot proff. Yes the parents should have been watching their kids more closely.  But most of youthat have kids know how fast they can wonder off. And ddon't tell me it has never happened to you.

[Alpha Dog]

I heard about this yesterday at my cousin's party.  Just sad, really sad.  In their native countries there are people out poaching these marvelous creatures all the time and will not be happy until every last one is shot.  They should find a nice National Park here ( or Central America )  and see if they could start a population of them.  In the wild the gorilla will very very  rarely hurt a human.  Oh they will bluff charge and scream holly hell, and throw objects but only to make the trespasser move on. Very similar actions as the North American Bigfoot.  A chimp  is totally unpredictable and may tear your head off.   Had the boy fallen in next to a female gorilla she may have shielded and protected the boy.  I really do not think this male would have hurt it.  I think it felt it was dragging the boy to a safer place.  However with all the screaming and shrieking going on the big fella must have been agitated beyond relief and that was the real danger.   In the end the right call was made - I guess.  How is it zoo enclosures are not made to prevent this from happening, now maybe they will.

[Valkorado]

Very similar actions as the North American Bigfoot.

Didn't realize that.  Moms, keep your kids close when around Bigfoots!

[Rams]

Well, I'll bet a lawyer will be contacting the parents to file a lawsuit against the zoo.

Maybe rightfully so.  There should not have been access.  

IMHO, the parents are responsible.  But watching a 4 yr old every second has got to be a very tuff job.

The parent's lawyer doesn't want me on that jury, they'll lose.    Parenting is the toughest job you can volunteer for, be drafted into or, just screw up and be responsible for, doesn't matter.    That gorilla's life was lost due to a parent's failure to maintain control of their kid.   

Just like locks only keep honest folks honest, fences only keep those who don't want inside outside.

[The emperor has no clothes]

I find no amusement in this video or the outcome at all. The kid did not battle the gorilla, the gorilla actually looked like it was protecting the boy. This tragedy could have been avoided and it cost the gorilla his life for the negligence of parents. I dont know why the zoo decided to put the gorilla down instead of tranquilizing it they must have had their reasons.

Meathead
I guess you see no consequences or know the cost of bad decisions or actions maybe this is why we have such differences in opinions.

Dude, calm down. It was a snarky comment. As far as consequences for bad decisions. Have you never had a child do what they were not supposed to do ? 3 year olds do stuff ! Maybe the Mom wasn't paying attention, I can't tell from the video. But I do know that both of my kids have not always done what I told them at 3.

[Rams]

I find no amusement in this video or the outcome at all. The kid did not battle the gorilla, the gorilla actually looked like it was protecting the boy. This tragedy could have been avoided and it cost the gorilla his life for the negligence of parents. I dont know why the zoo decided to put the gorilla down instead of tranquilizing it they must have had their reasons.

Meathead
I guess you see no consequences or know the cost of bad decisions or actions maybe this is why we have such differences in opinions.

Dude, calm down. It was a snarky comment. As far as consequences for bad decisions. Have you never had a child do what they were not supposed to do ? 3 year olds do stuff ! Maybe the Mom was t paying attention, I can't tell from the video. But I do know that both of my kids have not always done what I told them at 3.

But, the question isn't whether or not your or my 3 year olds always did what they were supposed to do or, whether or not that 3 year old was responsible, it's all about parental responsibility.    Kids do things, that's how they learn.   Parents are responsible to ensure their safety while they do that.

[Gavin_Sons]

Well, I'll bet a lawyer will be contacting the parents to file a lawsuit against the zoo.

Maybe rightfully so.  There should not have been access.  

IMHO, the parents are responsible.  But watching a 4 yr old every second has got to be a very tuff job.

The parent's lawyer doesn't want me on that jury, they'll lose.    Parenting is the toughest job you can volunteer for, be drafted into or, just screw up and be responsible for, doesn't matter.    That gorilla's life was lost due to a parent's failure to maintain control of their kid.   

Just like locks only keep honest folks honest, fences only keep those who don't want inside outside.

I won't even touch this one, apparently you were a better parent than I am 

[Rams]

Doubtful but, my wife was and is one hell of a parent.   
Her only fault IMHO, is her taste in men. 

[The emperor has no clothes]

I find no amusement in this video or the outcome at all. The kid did not battle the gorilla, the gorilla actually looked like it was protecting the boy. This tragedy could have been avoided and it cost the gorilla his life for the negligence of parents. I dont know why the zoo decided to put the gorilla down instead of tranquilizing it they must have had their reasons.

Meathead
I guess you see no consequences or know the cost of bad decisions or actions maybe this is why we have such differences in opinions.

Dude, calm down. It was a snarky comment. As far as consequences for bad decisions. Have you never had a child do what they were not supposed to do ? 3 year olds do stuff ! Maybe the Mom was t paying attention, I can't tell from the video. But I do know that both of my kids have not always done what I told them at 3.

But, the question isn't whether or not your or my 3 year olds always did what they were supposed to do or, whether or not that 3 year old was responsible, it's all about parental responsibility.    Kids do things, that's how they learn.   Parents are responsible to ensure their safety while they do that.

I agree. What I am saying is from the video I can't tell. She might not have been paying attention or she might have looked to the left and the kid darted right thru the fence. It is sad the gorilla was put down but I would take that shot every time in those circumstances.

[Gavin_Sons]

I find no amusement in this video or the outcome at all. The kid did not battle the gorilla, the gorilla actually looked like it was protecting the boy. This tragedy could have been avoided and it cost the gorilla his life for the negligence of parents. I dont know why the zoo decided to put the gorilla down instead of tranquilizing it they must have had their reasons.

Meathead
I guess you see no consequences or know the cost of bad decisions or actions maybe this is why we have such differences in opinions.

Dude, calm down. It was a snarky comment. As far as consequences for bad decisions. Have you never had a child do what they were not supposed to do ? 3 year olds do stuff ! Maybe the Mom was t paying attention, I can't tell from the video. But I do know that both of my kids have not always done what I told them at 3.

But, the question isn't whether or not your or my 3 year olds always did what they were supposed to do or, whether or not that 3 year old was responsible, it's all about parental responsibility.    Kids do things, that's how they learn.   Parents are responsible to ensure their safety while they do that.

I agree. What I am saying is from the video I can't tell. She might not have been paying attention or she might have looked to the left and the kid darted right thru the fence. It is sad the gorilla was put down but I would take that shot every time in those circumstances.

I agree with meathead on this one at 4he end of the day the little kid is alive and a wild animal is dead. Yes it's sad such an awesome animal had to die but would you rather it be the child?

[The emperor has no clothes]

Holy Crap Gavin ! What's the odds on that ? 

[Rams]

Yes it's sad such an awesome animal had to die but would you rather it be the child?

Yes, it is sad.    Making such a suggestion is silly, we all know that and that was/is not even a consideration.    Pretty sure you already knew the answer to that though.

[0leman]

If you listen to the "Experts" from the zoo and other places, the tranquilizers would have taken too long to put the big ape down.   There is several recent cases where the tranquillized apes went crazy after being shot with a dart and the juice took effect.   

As far as the kid getting under the railing thru the fence, you got to remember that a 4 year old sees opening that us taller folks don't.  All it takes is Mom/Dad looking away for a few seconds.  Not necessary bad parenting, just bad luck.

[John Schmidt]

According to people nearby that were interviewed, the kid had said he wanted to crawl through to get a better look and his mother told him not to. Problem here is....once she knew that was on his mind, she didn't take steps to prevent it or at least keep a closer eye on him. My opinion FWIW...which isn't much, both the zoo and parents share some blame on this one. If you recall a similar situation happened not too long ago at another zoo, kid fell into the gorilla pen and was unconscious for a time. A young male kept watch over him and became a bit distressed when the kid woke up and started to cry. During the kid's time in the pen, other gorillas kept trying to get at him but the first one watching over him kept them away, actually protected him. As I recall, I think a worker was lowered in and picked the kid up. In general, although a scary situation for all concerned I think in most cases I've seen over the years that when it's a small child the gorilla involved takes an interest in protecting them rather than harming. As stated....chimps are another thing, they're destructive and will rip you apart with no warning, kinda like humans in a way. 

[Willow]

I didn't see enough in the video to inform me sufficiently to attach guilt and responsibility.  Honestly enough, I've lost some respect for those who felt it necessary to do so and I pray they never look the other way for a moment or make a mistake that causes them to eat their words.  I made a lot of mistakes when my children were growing up and it's primarily by chance that nothing terrible happened to them.

Robert, there are probably several reasons they didn't use a tranquilizer but the foremost is likely the time it would have taken to fetch what was needed and to get the dosage just right.  I do think the gorilla did not intend harm to the child but he was also a dumb animal not knowing exactly what would or would not and he was greatly disturbed by all the yelling.

I'm sorry this happened both from the mother's and child's end and from the gorilla's end.  I hope there will be some learning that takes place from this incident.  Unfortunately the most complete way to guard against this ever happening again is to remove the option of people or children being able to attend the zoo where are kept big strong animals that act indeed like animals.  I hope that's not the answer as the odds appear to have been millions to one and my children did dearly love seeing the gorillas.    

[Rams]

Honestly enough, I've lost some respect for those who felt it necessary to do so and I pray they never look the other way for a moment or make a mistake that causes them to eat their words.      

While the opposite isn't necessarily true, I'd much rather know where I stand with an individual than to think it and be wrong.   Ride safe.

[The emperor has no clothes]

I didn't see enough in the video to inform me sufficiently to attach guilt and responsibility.  Honestly enough, I've lost some respect for those who felt it necessary to do so and I pray they never look the other way for a moment or make a mistake that causes them to eat their words.  I made a lot of mistakes when my children were growing up and it's primarily by chance that nothing terrible happened to them.

I think ALL of us who have raised kids have done the same. Some might be in denial about it or oblivious to it. 

[Robert]

 I heard that the zoo decided that the tranquilizer would work slowly, I guess they felt there was imminent danger to the child as the call was made by the dangerous animal response team.

[Aries]

Tragic as the situation is, as a builder, my first thought is....how the heck did the child get in there? In my industry, there are an insane amount of building code amendments being added all the time that are designed around safety. So much that it's becoming the norm to hire consultants for each municipality we're building in. Professional architects can't even keep up. There has been an existing code that requires openings in guardrail, patio rails, etc be no larger greater that to allow a 4" sphere through the opening. For most, just make a fist and you'll see, that would be hard for most four year olds to slip through. Now mind you, this applies to new construction. There are countless building structures that predate these new safety codes and because their technically grandfathered in, no one can inforce that they comply to the new safety standards.

 As a parent of a young child, I know first hand that children love to climb and craw through whatever necessary to get to where they want to go. As adults, we need to think for them and try and stay one step ahead.

 It will be interesting to see what surfaces during the investigation.

[Psychotic Bovine]

I find no amusement in this video or the outcome at all. The kid did not battle the gorilla, the gorilla actually looked like it was protecting the boy. This tragedy could have been avoided and it cost the gorilla his life for the negligence of parents. I dont know why the zoo decided to put the gorilla down instead of tranquilizing it they must have had their reasons.

Meathead
I guess you see no consequences or know the cost of bad decisions or actions maybe this is why we have such differences in opinions.

some disagree on the "protecting" part.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/gorilla-shot-cincinnati-zoo-killed-boy-intervention-expert/story?id=39478421

[Jess from VA]

There's enough blame to go around.

How about liability (ambulance chaser) lawyers?

The wrongful death claim by the parents would have been large. 

No one will file on behalf of the gorilla. (Not that they wouldn't try, but finding the gorilla's parents or dependents and getting their signature on the retainer agreement would be difficult)

[mike72903]

At least the kid didn't have these parents. http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/30/asia/japan-boy-woods/index.html

[98valk]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3616453/New-video-footage-Harambe-shows-400-pound-gorilla-HOLDING-HANDS-four-year-old-boy-fell-zoo-enclosure-witnesses-say-animal-acting-protectively.html

end of article has similar incident that happened in 1986 in england. the gorilla protected the hurt boy from the other gorillas and then made all of them go into the pen/cage so the medical personal could get to him.

[Moonshot_1]

I believe the zoo fulfilled their obligation by having a facility that kept the wild animals within the confines of the habitat.

To expect the zoo to have a facility that is kid proof is a tall order.

If I were the management of the zoo I would immediately bring a civil action against the parents for the loss of the Gorilla and any other costs the zoo incurred in rescuing the kid. Clearly the kid was trespassing as he entered a restricted zone. The parent should be held responsible.

Again, the Gorilla was where the Gorilla was supposed to be. The kid was not.

[98valk]

I believe the zoo fulfilled their obligation by having a facility that kept the wild animals within the confines of the habitat.

To expect the zoo to have a facility that is kid proof is a tall order.

If I were the management of the zoo I would immediately bring a civil action against the parents for the loss of the Gorilla and any other costs the zoo incurred in rescuing the kid. Clearly the kid was trespassing as he entered a restricted zone. The parent should be held responsible.

Again, the Gorilla was where the Gorilla was supposed to be. The kid was not.

+1 

[Gavin_Sons]

But still, these days you have to idiot proof everything. You would not believe the safety equipment we install on the robot cells we build. At the end of the day you have to keep people out of these exhibits. A little 3 foot fence will not stop anyone especially a kid. So the blame is on the zoo for negligence of proper safety railing. I dont blame the parents at all, I have a 3 and 5 year old boys and know how fast they can run off. Yes the zoo kept their critters where they were suppose to be but it's also their job to keep people out of where they are not suppose to be. Just part of having a public business.

[ridingron]

  I believe the zoo fulfilled their obligation by having a facility that kept the wild animals within the confines of the habitat.

To expect the zoo to have a facility that is kid proof is a tall order.

If I were the management of the zoo I would immediately bring a civil action against the parents for the loss of the Gorilla and any other costs the zoo incurred in rescuing the kid. Clearly the kid was trespassing as he entered a restricted zone. The parent should be held responsible.

Again, the Gorilla was where the Gorilla was supposed to be. The kid was not.

This lawyer would want me on the jury. Like Rams, the other lawyer (above) wouldn't want me on the jury.

[Aries]

Thank you Gaven_sons, you understood my point. If by today's standards, local building departments can determine how we have to build things in or around our own homes due to child safety concerns, then how should any commercially marketed place like a zoo not have to comply to the same rules and regulations. Especially a place like a zoo where a larger percentage of the customers are children. Heck, you can't even have a drop anywhere around your own home greater than 30" without having to have a guardrail. That child dropped somewhere around 12 feet. Schools bus children in by the thousands over the summer to see the animals. And I can guarantee that there won't be one parent/teacher for every child. In the blink of an eye, any child can slip away unnoticed.

 logic would only say that making things childproof better darn well be somewhere high on the list.

[Gavin_Sons]

Thank you Gaven_sons, you understood my point. If by today's standards, local building departments can determine how we have to build things in or around our own homes due to child safety concerns, then how should any commercially marketed place like a zoo not have to comply to the same rules and regulations. Especially a place like a zoo where a larger percentage of the customers are children. Heck, you can't even have a drop anywhere around your own home greater than 30" without having to have a guardrail. That child dropped somewhere around 12 feet. Schools bus children in by the thousands over the summer to see the animals. And I can guarantee that there won't be one parent/teacher for every child. In the blink of an eye, any child can slip away unnoticed.

 logic would only say that making things childproof better darn well be somewhere high on the list.

Exactly, if this would have been my child, I would own the zoo and have that gorilla mounted front and center of the main entrance. Just saying

[Rams]

Gavin,
While I respect you and your opinion, I respectfully disagree.   You may want a "Nanny" state where the government makes parental decisions for you but, I whole heartedly oppose that concept.
I also understand that small children are tough to control and take a lot of attention.    I know I made a lot of mistakes while rearing my children.   We all accepted the responsibility to take care of those kids, teach them the difference between right and wrong, hopefully allowing them to gain a little common sense and discipline along the path.

I would suggest that if you owned that zoo, you wouldn't own it long or, you'd close it due to all the "safe guards" that you propose to be put in place.   Then, no child would get to see gorillas up close and personal.   As you indicated, you have to put "all" kinds of safety controls in where you do your work.   And yet, I'll bet people still find ways to get hurt.    

We can work to reduce work injuries and teach good common sense but, that doesn't mean things won't go south from time to time.   Stuff happens and when that stuff happens (in the case of children) it's the parents job to keep them safe, one way or another.     Parental responsibility includes recognizing when you have a "willful" child that is hard to control and applying appropriate actions or defenses to ensure that child's safety.       IOWs, it's the zoo's responsibility to take all reasonable measures to protect those who come to see the creatures of the wild but, it's the responsibility of those who take less than confident individuals to that public place to keep them under control.  

My next door neighbor lost a son a couple of years ago, the child chased something out into the street where he was run over and killed.   Should there be required fences in every yard to keep kids in?   How high, should the gates be padlocked?   The county owned the street, is the county at fault?  The father of that child has a daughter now, he watches that child like a hawk looking for a meal.   He tells me it's very hard for him to allow her to explore and play but, he forces that upon himself all the while praying and being vigilant of what dangers are around her watching for those hidden things that can reach up and bite.   Where do you draw the line?

Let me know if and when you ever get that zoo, I'll be first in line to see the gorillas.

http://www.aol.com/article/...uring-swim/21386105/

Australian woman believed to be taken by crocodile during her late night swim.

In recent decades, the crocodile population in northern Australia has grown significantly, and the reptiles pose serious threats to all who venture near them, according to Sky News.

ABC News is reporting that a woman who went for a late night swim at Queensland's Thornton Beach on Sunday was carried off by one of the creatures and remains missing.

 According to a friend who was at her side at the time, the two of them felt a "nudge," in the waist-deep water, and, within moments, 46-year-old Cindy Waldron was dragged away, notes BuzzFeed News.

Queensland State Police Senior Constable Russell Parker said that the victim "screamed out" and her friend "attempted to drag her out of the water and get her back onto the beach but unfortunately she wasn't able to do so."

The friend was found with a graze on her arm thought to be from the crocodile. She was reportedly stable, but otherwise "but obviously extremely traumatized by the event."

 Warren Entsch, an area politician, acknowledged the incident is a tragedy but also commented, "there are signs there saying watch out for the...crocodiles... You can't legislate against human stupidity. If you go in swimming at 10 o' clock at night, you're going to get consumed."

As I frequently say, It is, what it is.  Especially in this case. But, I'm sure someone will blame the Crocodile for being a crocodile.

[98valk]

I helped my mom raise my two nephews from the time they were two and three, they are both on their thirties now. First time I took them out to stores with me, my mom warned me they would wander off esp the younger one. When I got to the store with them, I pretty much said to them what my Dad said to me and my four siblings. U wander off and u will be seriously hurt by me and serious punishment later and grabbed them to let them feel the strength of a full grown man. And gave them orders to follow me, if I move they better move with me. It was their job to pay attention to me and stay by my side. Basically I put fear into them and gave them responsibility. They never wandered off, just like my siblings and me never wandered off from my Dad.
The parents of that boy were negligent and should be charged esp since its been reported the boy kept saying he wanted to go into the water.