master plumbers needed

[cookiedough]

After a few months of running the toilet water,  I finally got around today to replace the ballcock since if I raise and fiddle with the metal rod and set screw,  I could get it to stop running all the time, for a short while anyways.

Now,  after 3 hours of misery (tight spot 6" to spare to get in there and see next to the wall),  I replaced it with an identical one we have in the other bathroom, same level, etc. looking identical height, etc.   

I fiddled with both the rate of water return screw and water level screw AFTER I had a mess on the floor when turning the water back on the first time.  Who knew that rubber seal inside the long ballcock has to be SUPER DUPER tight fitting otherwise leaks water all over the place not sealing hardly at all  - what a MESS it was!

Well, no more leaks as far as I know so far, but after only 4 flushes so far,  I have heard 2-3 times that same darn HISS of water running PISSING ME OFF TO NO END.  I fiddled with both screws yet again and so far has stopped for now, but with my luck,  it will start hissing yet again just like it was hissing water noise prior with 24 year old plastic ballcock assembly that I thought was going bad.

I used the same straight metal tubing from the shut off valve below toilet luckily NO leaks since has been on for 24 years not touched vs. buying a new flexible braided water line 6" tube.

This is starting to tick me off but will keep an eye on it yet again after 2-3 months of hissing/water leaking noise...    I noticed my water bill go up about 10-15 bucks last 2 months, so felt it was about time to spend 3 hours and attempt to fix the spare toilet with a 10 dollar ballcock plastic part/metal rod/float ball. 

Any suggestions besides keep adjusting the 2 screws and maybe water flow pressure valve to allow a quicker refill since is running in pretty slowly  (I didn't want another messy leak again).  I also cut off 2 inches of the rubber refill tube since was way too long but has a pretty good bend up and then down in it but the top lid still closed, just barely, could use another 1-2 inches cut off might try that still?

Any ideas? 

[Oss]

get an outhouse

 


Just kiddin ya  I will be following this thread tho

we have one toilet that if you dont jiggle the handle it will keep running as well

in nyc that runnin water could cost over 1000 a yr

[Patrick]

Is the tank loosing water causing the valve to refill ?

Is the tank overfilling and water dumping out the overflow ?

It seems as though one of the 2 above is happening.

The best fill valves I've found are Fluidmaster. Cheap and bulletproof.

[Skinhead]

Sounds to me like your flush valve is leaking.  This lets the water in the tank slowly drain into the bowl and when the water level in the tank drops low enough the fill valve opens and refills the tank.  The flush valve or flapper valve is located in the bottom of the tank and is opened when you turn the flush handle.  Clorine and other chemicals in the water can disort the flapper and cause it to leak.  They are cheap and easy to replace.  

I ain't a master plumber but I stayed in a Holiday Inn once.

[Bighead]

Can you say DY-NO-MITE      Well JJ could

[Gavin_Sons]

3 things all plumbers should know
1. crap runs down hill
2. Don't lick your fingers
3. Payday is on Friday.

[jim@98valkyrie.com]

After a few months of running the toilet water,  I finally got around today to replace the ballcock since if I raise and fiddle with the metal rod and set screw,  I could get it to stop running all the time, for a short while anyways.

Now,  after 3 hours of misery (tight spot 6" to spare to get in there and see next to the wall),  I replaced it with an identical one we have in the other bathroom, same level, etc. looking identical height, etc.   

I fiddled with both the rate of water return screw and water level screw AFTER I had a mess on the floor when turning the water back on the first time.  Who knew that rubber seal inside the long ballcock has to be SUPER DUPER tight fitting otherwise leaks water all over the place not sealing hardly at all  - what a MESS it was!

Well, no more leaks as far as I know so far, but after only 4 flushes so far,  I have heard 2-3 times that same darn HISS of water running PISSING ME OFF TO NO END.  I fiddled with both screws yet again and so far has stopped for now, but with my luck,  it will start hissing yet again just like it was hissing water noise prior with 24 year old plastic ballcock assembly that I thought was going bad.

I used the same straight metal tubing from the shut off valve below toilet luckily NO leaks since has been on for 24 years not touched vs. buying a new flexible braided water line 6" tube.

This is starting to tick me off but will keep an eye on it yet again after 2-3 months of hissing/water leaking noise...    I noticed my water bill go up about 10-15 bucks last 2 months, so felt it was about time to spend 3 hours and attempt to fix the spare toilet with a 10 dollar ballcock plastic part/metal rod/float ball. 

Any suggestions besides keep adjusting the 2 screws and maybe water flow pressure valve to allow a quicker refill since is running in pretty slowly  (I didn't want another messy leak again).  I also cut off 2 inches of the rubber refill tube since was way too long but has a pretty good bend up and then down in it but the top lid still closed, just barely, could use another 1-2 inches cut off might try that still?

Any ideas? 

First thing to do is check and see if water is leaking past the flush valve into the toilet bowl. Allow the toilet tank to fill up and the ballcock to shut off. Turn the water off to the toilet at the shut off valve. Go to your kitchen and ask your wife for some food color (Green or Blue works really well). Drop several drops into the tank and allow it to color the water. If the flush valve is leaking, you will see this colored water leaking into the toilet bowl.
To fix, you will need to replace the flapper on the flush valve. They are pretty cheap and easy to replace. Once you do that, repeat the food color test.  I don't suspect you have a REALLY old toilet that has a tank ball- you would have two rods running from the end of the trip lever to the flush valve.
If you have fixed the leak, you will no longer see colored water running into the bowl. You can turn the water back on at the shut off valve.

[davit]

Unlike your Valkyrie, your 24 year old toilet will never gain "classic" status.  At 24 years it's past  its prime and grossly inefficient.  I would suggest cutting your losses, take a trip Home Depot, pick up a modern 1.28 gallon per flush and be done with it.  Your water utility may even offer a rebate.

[pais]

First thing to do is check and see if water is leaking past the flush valve into the toilet bowl. Allow the toilet tank to fill up and the ballcock to shut off. Turn the water off to the toilet at the shut off valve. Go to your kitchen and ask your wife for some food color (Green or Blue works really well). Drop several drops into the tank and allow it to color the water. If the flush valve is leaking, you will see this colored water leaking into the toilet bowl.
To fix, you will need to replace the flapper on the flush valve. They are pretty cheap and easy to replace. Once you do that, repeat the food color test.  I don't suspect you have a REALLY old toilet that has a tank ball- you would have two rods running from the end of the trip lever to the flush valve.
If you have fixed the leak, you will no longer see colored water running into the bowl. You can turn the water back on at the shut off valve.

The best fill valves I've found are Fluidmaster. Cheap and bulletproof.
[/quote]

Two great pieces of advice! 
  1st do the color test. After that put in a Fluidmaster. They built a better mouse trap when they invented those.
  Leaky / running toilet is the number one reason for high water bills. People don't realize / believe they can be the culprit. Keep in mind it's a non stop situation. Constantly refilling the tank. Whether it's your tank flapper or flush valve. Hate to throw another ball into the game but, the seal between the tank and the stool will sometimes deteriorate to the point water leaks from the tank into the bowl.

[Moonshot_1]

Unlike your Valkyrie, your 24 year old toilet will never gain "classic" status.  At 24 years it's past  its prime and grossly inefficient.  I would suggest cutting your losses, take a trip Home Depot, pick up a modern 1.28 gallon per flush and be done with it.  Your water utility may even offer a rebate.

I would 2nd this approach. At 24 years old and chronically leaking it might take more than just replacing the flapper. Where the flapper seats may be worn or have even a small amount of corrosion that is letting water pass through.

Replacing a toilet isn't hard. But given the constricted space you have described it may be hard for the average DIYer.

1. I'd find a pro and just get it done right the 1st time. Or
2.you can give it a shot then call the pro.

I used to pick option #2. I just go to option #1 now. LOL

[Valkorado]

Can you say DY-NO-MITE      Well JJ could

JJ could say it, but Keith Moon actually did it!  

[cookiedough]

Sounds to me like your flush valve is leaking.  This lets the water in the tank slowly drain into the bowl and when the water level in the tank drops low enough the fill valve opens and refills the tank.  The flush valve or flapper valve is located in the bottom of the tank and is opened when you turn the flush handle.  Clorine and other chemicals in the water can disort the flapper and cause it to leak.  They are cheap and easy to replace.  

I ain't a master plumber but I stayed in a Holiday Inn once.

WEll, unless the fill valve (ballcock) is bad since brand new (I doubt it but is plastic after all),  then it must be the flush valve leaking (rubber seal?),  but I highly doubt that as well since if I BARELY push down on the fill valve I just replaced on the plastic screw knob on top of it,  it will instantly stop hissing and as soon as I let go of it on top with 1 finger not pressing hard at all,  it hisses again.

To me that still seems like a fill valve issue if pressing slightly down on that stops the hissing noise just like my OLD ballcock fill valve did until by pressing down harder and harder did NOT stop it running/hissing.    I am still puzzled.  

Fill valve was not a fluid master but basic menards brand with rod and ball.

still an issue i'm stumped.  I guess I can try replacing the flush valve another 10 bucks or so since OEM from 20+ years ago since maybe leaking water out somehow making the fill valve keep running/hissing?  That doesn't explain to me though why pushing slightly down on the top of the fill valve that I just replaced causes the hissing to immediately stop until I let go with very light pressure then hisses again?

Good idea on the food coloring idea though sounds like I will try that next to see if the flush valve not sealing/leaking making the fill valve keep hissing/running.   

I've watched you tube videos and most say the fill valve, maybe got a bad apple at menards brand new but have the same one in the main bathroom I replaced 10 years or so ago still going strong.

Still seems odd to me push very lightly on top of the fill valve I just replaced stops it from hissing and trust me, I got the plastic outside underneath washer on very tight since 4-5 revolutions was still leaking like a sieve where as most youtube videos state you don't have to crank on that plastic locknut under the toilet that tight, not on mine. 

[Jess from VA]

Just turn off the supply after it's full.   No more leaks.    

I don't care which brand you get (and I get fluid master), it's stupid to buy one.  Buy a half dozen, and you're good for awhile.

I have nice and lovingly maintained OE 3 gallon American Standards.  I love them because the EPA hates them.   I'm not giving those up either.   Molon labe.

[davit]

Pictures would go a long way here.

Whenever shutting off water to a toilet, when turning it back on the water should be directed into a container to flush any debris before reconnecting the supply line to the toilet.

If there is debris in the fill valve you should be able to pop the top off the valve, hold a small bowl, inverterted over the filler, turn on the water to flush it out.

[davit]

Disregard the last part of my post, I see you have the old bulb type float.

[cookiedough]

Unlike your Valkyrie, your 24 year old toilet will never gain "classic" status.  At 24 years it's past  its prime and grossly inefficient.  I would suggest cutting your losses, take a trip Home Depot, pick up a modern 1.28 gallon per flush and be done with it.  Your water utility may even offer a rebate.

I like the old poddy though and my mother in law has one of those fancier,  LESS water types,  and if you have to go REAL BAD a LOT,  NOT enough water in the poddy to cover it all up leaving skid marks all over...  

I put 6 drops of red food coloring and shut water supply off so will see if the tank goes down which I think it is since has dropped 1 cm in 20 minutes now but so far see no red in the toilet water yet.  Will see what tomorrow morning brings as the next step.  Sort of irks me though if I spent 3 hours for nothing on the darn fill valve wasn't that all along, not the money issue of only 10 bucks but the hastle of getting it undone in that small corner.

I have had to about 10 years ago undo the main toilet (one I have an issue now is 1/2 bath basically 3x5' room with small sink/poddy is all not used much really) which is same toilet as 1/2 bath I am working on now.   I had to undo the main bolts since was leaking fluids due to bad wax ring and broken bolt on one side not holding very well 10 or so years ago.  Wasn't too bad undoing the water line,  undoing 2 bolts, and lifting straight out the poddy although in that smaller 1/2 bath NO room to do so with sink in the way almost.  

Worst case scenario is the seal (wax ring) under poddy is leaking ruining my floorboards to the house but see no water leaking upstairs anyways.  Might have to see the basement I thought I saw BLACK moisture once while looking up, will have to check again in basement but you would think if water leaking at base of poddy,  the upstairs around toilet would be leaking as well, but is sealed with caulk so who knows?

I've had WATER issues once on my roof as well last year was UNREAL.  We had one VERY heavy rain like 2 inches in a few hours and had a fan vent on roof to the main bathroom leaking around the roof fan vent in the attic, down the inner walls (luckily NOT upstairs) and dripping water pretty badly in the basement going just thru the studs in inner walls enough to fill up 3 gallons of a 5 gallon bucket in that short of rainfall.  Had to re-do some shingles and replace with new fan roof vent and discard of wet heavy insulation in attic with new insulation and luckily never destroyed the sheetrock in attic above kid's bedroom since was covered with plastic.

Water is NOT my friend apparently since when my house was new in 1993, about 3 years later my sump pump in basement failed and had yet another 2" rainfall that day came home to 3" of standing water in my 24x48' basement up to the furnace on bricks.  Spent the next 2 full days discarding 4 big chunks of carpet  and other stuff hauling it all to the dumps.  

I guess I am lucky to not live in West Virginia about now with water issues, nothing like they got for sure.  

[cookiedough]

WOW, going to bed now luckily NO more water will be lost, for now anways.  IN 2 short hours, the red food coloring in tank is near empty NO water left only 1 inch is all, but NO red food coloring in the toilet bowl completely clear water.

That means 100's of gallons lost the past 1-2 months or so.  Where is it all going is the key?  Down the PVC piping in the basement by passing the toilet bowl?

Next step??  Take the top tank off in back and see if the seal is leaking or do I have to remove the entire toilet 2 bolts and all which I don't want to do as a last resort.  For now,  NO opening of the water valve since say 3 gallons every 2 hours gone is a lot in 1-2 months time.   For sure the flush valve is bad, but where did the red food colored water go if not in the toilet itself and the toilet is still full as normal level all clear water?

Does the tank water have to go into the toilet bowl water or can it go directly down the bottom below the PVC piping for waste?  Like said, NO red food coloring at all in the toilet bowl, where did the red food colored water go then?

I'll be checking this for sure tomorrow after work for any ideas?

thanks in advance!

[KY,Dave (AKA Misunderstood)]

From the tank the water is going to the bowl. NO other way unless it is leaking out of the tank and eventually onto the floor. Loosing water can only be 2 other places. The water level is set too high and going over the overflow tube or it is escaping through the flapper. My bet is the flapper...........cheap and easy fix but I too would install a Fluidmaster on it. Actually a new commode would be better. Toto made the best but others have their flushing system now. I like American Standard. The one that flushes a bucket of golf balls with very little water.

Toto
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUB6FuOty0k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwhuPQxlCpg

American Standard
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tf7Ju9NBdk

[Patrick]

Is the tank loosing water causing the valve to refill ?

Is the tank overfilling and water dumping out the overflow ?

It seems as though one of the 2 above is happening.

The best fill valves I've found are Fluidmaster. Cheap and bulletproof.

So, the tank is loosing water. Only 2 places for it to go. Out the flush valve [ easy to fix or replace] or if the toilet is a 2 piece then the tank can be leaking. [ another easy fix by emptying the tank and then removing it to replace the gaskets.]  Parts are cheap unless its a Kolher. But, still, install a Fluidmaster fill valve and adjust water height to your liking and complete flush usually a couple inches from top of tube.


The easiest way to check the flush valve for leakage is to just listen to it. But, our old ears fail us at times, so, just watch the water level for a drop along the overfill tube.

[cookiedough]

Now that I looked this morning,  the toilet bowl does look just a tad bit red of food coloring, not like the tank was darker red, but just a tad off colored red is all.

regardless, new flush valve/seal and seal between the tank taking that off (2-piece) and the bottom toilet will be next step.  I never knew there was a seal between top tank and bottom toilet, but makes sense. 

The toilet is a Mansfield brand in both bathrooms. 

[Earl43P]

Go to Lowes and buy a $6.99 flapper repair kit.

Installation entails drain the tank, remove the old rubber flapper.
Then you bond the new flapper seal seat to the old one with the enclosed tube of quick drying sealant. Install the new rubber flapper from the kit and enjoy a new seal with no more leaks from the tank into the bowl.

15 minute job including sopping out the remaining water in the tank with a towel so you can dry the surface for the new seat/sealant.

This:  http://www.lowes.com/pd/Korky-Flush-Valve-Assembly/3130209

[KY,Dave (AKA Misunderstood)]

Now that I looked this morning,  the toilet bowl does look just a tad bit red of food coloring, not like the tank was darker red, but just a tad off colored red is all.
 

That's because it was further diluted by the clear water already in the bowl 

[Jess Tolbirt]

i didnt read all the responses but the rubber goes to the inside of the tank and that that locknut wont have to be so tight

[Roidfingers]

If its just the flapper then drain the bowl and dry the rim of the bowl where flapper seats then apply vasoline to the lip and good to go. but 6.99 at lowes for a fluidmaster and get rid off old system is way better.

[cookiedough]

Well, in order to remove the old flush valve with rubber seal as well,  I need to get the darn 3 bolts underneath in back off the top tank since the flat head ibolt nside the toilet spins and since nuts/bolts on 23 years never removed,  will not budge without spinning the bolt while turning the nut, cannot get a good hold of the dommed head standard bolt with a flat head screwdriver to keep it from spinning.  Like said,  I cannot see down there since cannot get my head in a 6-7" side span so have to go by feel.

I sprayed lubricating oil underneath the 3 bolts/nuts and hopefully will free them up for tomorrow to take the top tank off.  It would greatly help if someone on top put pressure on the dommed standard bolt head with a screwdriver inside the tank while I turned from the bottom though, if room for 2 of us in a 3 foot wide section.  Sort of hard to feel from the bottom while keeping the screwdriver in the standard slot, plus the depth of those dommed bolts are pretty much useless no depth to them at all to get a good hold with a screwdriver without coming out.  Will get new bolts/nuts for top tank as well just in case tomorrow after work and a 6" adjustable stainless steel water flow hose under the toilet vs. the OEM straight pipe.    Luckily we have a main bathroom and that poddy which we use 90% of the time still works vs. this 1/2 bath if you want to call 3x5' a 1/2 bath that is.

This 20 minute job is turning into 4-5 hours so far.  I did notice flipping/tearing up the rubber seal on the flush valve flapper around the tank to be very brittle and deterioating some/very weak as well, thus the slow leak am sure into the toilet the past 2 months.  I guess 23 years of limited use has taken it's toll?  Am surprised our other 23 year old same toilet has not leaked yet.  I guess sooner or later all my 23 year old appliances will be going as well all bought new in 1993 with the house am sure washer/dryer and fridge will go before the electric stove, well maybe?

[Roidfingers]

meal blade saw all

[cookiedough]

meal blade saw all

Can fit a saw all? in a 6-7 inch area on both sides of tank not seeing what I am cutting? and one bolt in back with only 4-5 inches to spare???  My small wrench barely fit turning the nut spinning the bolt as well after work so I gave up for later.  My luck I would crack the toilet but at this point,  doesn't sound too horrible of an idea I guess?  Will let the penetrating oil soak another day or two then try when maybe in a better mechanical mode.   

My head does fit just barely if going under the toilet top but my fat 285lb. frame is contorted so bad cannot lay in that position for very long.   Will try again tomorrow since once I get the 3 bolts/nuts out,  rest should be fairly straight forward assuming I don't break the poddy or fill valve connector under the tank when I also unloosen that from water supply valve line.

[KY,Dave (AKA Misunderstood)]

Fill valve should be able to be removed without removing tank. Usually just a plastic nut under tank where water supply connects. I've done many by feel instead of sight with limited room/access. Without seeing the situation I'm guessing you have one of those $&*&%#@@*() shelving units over the back of the commode going up the wall 

[Cracker Jack]

meal blade saw all

Can fit a saw all? in a 6-7 inch area on both sides of tank not seeing what I am cutting? and one bolt in back with only 4-5 inches to spare???  My small wrench barely fit turning the nut spinning the bolt as well after work so I gave up for later.  My luck I would crack the toilet but at this point,  doesn't sound too horrible of an idea I guess?  Will let the penetrating oil soak another day or two then try when maybe in a better mechanical mode.   

My head does fit just barely if going under the toilet top but my fat 285lb. frame is contorted so bad cannot lay in that position for very long.   Will try again tomorrow since once I get the 3 bolts/nuts out,  rest should be fairly straight forward assuming I don't break the poddy or fill valve connector under the tank when I also unloosen that from water supply valve line.

"Unloosen" means to tighten, right?

[Roidfingers]

They have complete NEW toilet kits at lowes for 89 bucks. Comes with everything. Wax ring, fill valve, just mount tank to bowl and install water line. Just measure your rough opening. Its either 10 inches from wall or twelve. Twelve is the norm these days but lowes has a few that are 10. If not home depot is good too. Then just smash the toilet with a hammer where it bolts to floor and pull up. be sure water line is off. And would be a good time to buy the s/s one. Has a thumb turn on the end to ease install.

[Jess from VA]

The new one idea is outstanding.

If it won't come apart without being a Chinese contortionist, take the whole thing outside where there is room to work on it.  

The same thing is often true of motorcycle repair.  To save taking things off/apart, you work twice as hard, twice as long, and are sore as hell when you are done.  Then you smugly think you beat the manual.  I've been this guy...... several times. 

[cookiedough]

Fill valve should be able to be removed without removing tank. Usually just a plastic nut under tank where water supply connects. I've done many by feel instead of sight with limited room/access. Without seeing the situation I'm guessing you have one of those $&*&%#@@*() shelving units over the back of the commode going up the wall 

correct, did the fill valve already since thought that was my issue, is now the flush valve. 

I bought 2 flush valves cannot decide which one to use one that has the flapper on bottom only with chain that hooks onto my plastic rod handle inside on top vs. the other one identical to my 23 year old one has a long tube going up the middle with a plastic hole on top that the plastic long flush rod goes into that appears to be taller like my OEM one vs. the rubber flapper one with chain being shorter.  The taller one with long plastic tube I bought says OEM for Mansfield toilet which is what mfg. I have since is identical.  Doubt it matters?

I think either will work but gotta get the tank off since have to replace now the flush valve not fill valve.   I will get to it this weekend I guess?

Which one is best for the flush valve?  Probably both equal is my guess??? 

[Jersey mike]

Unlike your Valkyrie, your 24 year old toilet will never gain "classic" status.  At 24 years it's past  its prime and grossly inefficient.  I would suggest cutting your losses, take a trip Home Depot, pick up a modern 1.28 gallon per flush and be done with it.  Your water utility may even offer a rebate.

I like the old poddy though and my mother in law has one of those fancier,  LESS water types,  and if you have to go REAL BAD a LOT,  NOT enough water in the poddy to cover it all up leaving skid marks all over...  

Yes beware of the new toilets. This past winter we installed one after fighting a recurring issue with a 1960's original. The new one "flushes" but doesn't have much push to it and does leave some residue.  I didn't realize when I called the plumber to get a new toilet what I should get or ask for, I was just fed up with trying to fix it over and over. Shop around and get a good new one, I know I'll be replacing this one in the future.

[KY,Dave (AKA Misunderstood)]

Fill valve should be able to be removed without removing tank. Usually just a plastic nut under tank where water supply connects. I've done many by feel instead of sight with limited room/access. Without seeing the situation I'm guessing you have one of those $&*&%#@@*() shelving units over the back of the commode going up the wall 

correct, did the fill valve already since thought that was my issue, is now the flush valve. 

I bought 2 flush valves cannot decide which one to use one that has the flapper on bottom only with chain that hooks onto my plastic rod handle inside on top vs. the other one identical to my 23 year old one has a long tube going up the middle with a plastic hole on top that the plastic long flush rod goes into that appears to be taller like my OEM one vs. the rubber flapper one with chain being shorter.  The taller one with long plastic tube I bought says OEM for Mansfield toilet which is what mfg. I have since is identical.  Doubt it matters?

I think either will work but gotta get the tank off since have to replace now the flush valve not fill valve.   I will get to it this weekend I guess?

Which one is best for the flush valve?  Probably both equal is my guess??? 

Never personally had the mansfield style plastic tower thing so don't know which is better for longevity. Personal preference I guess. Rubber flapper is easier to replace as they wear.......

[cookiedough]

Well, took the tank off and put internals all together but saw yesterday one of the flange bolts holding the toilet to the floor was broke, probably for a long while is my guess.

WEll,  today after much of cleaning up the old bowl wax and taking off toilet,  I finally had to loosen the rusted up 3 small screwd holding 1/2 the gasket seal to the floor to pry up just a tad to get OUT the old cracked metal flange bolt - pain in the ass with all the gunk built up on it luckily undid 3 of the screw/bolts to be able to pry up just a tad the round gasket to tap out with another screwdriver the cracked flange bolt head underneath.

All is cleaned up now and tomorrow installing new wax ring, new floor bolts, and toilet tank and keeping my fingers crossed NO leaks and NO running toilet that doesn't seal.

I am going to use the rubber flapper flush valve stye if works out, since like said,  hopefully that is easier to replace 'just that part' vs. having to with the mansfield one piece tall flush valve the entire unit thus having to remove the rear tank again, although will be easier now that everything is all cleaned up and NOT crusted/rusted on all over after 23 years.  

I guess no matter how clean you think  you clean the poddy,  the guts underneath still get rusted and crusted.  

Say,  there was room underneath (just barely with the nut top just barely touching the underneath of the toilet)  with the toilet on to install a thin washer and nut on the 2 flange bolts BEFORE putting the toilet base back on since I think that will help the bolts remain steadier/stronger vs. just relying on the top hex nut/thin washer ABOVE the toilet bolted down to the poddy to the 2 flange bolts.

Has anyone done that ever installing a thin nut BELOW the toilet to the flange bolts (I think it will help from spinning the flange bolt maybe just in case after the new wax ring goes on when installing just a top hex nut ABOVE the toilet).  I saw a youtube video and was recommended 'just in case' the flange bolts spins while installing the top nut ABOVE the toilet ONLY if there is room which there is just barely.  The flat NUT UNDER the toilet bolted flat on the gasket to the flange bolt MIGHT JUST BARELY be touching the underside of the toilet porcelain base, but is not compressed too much on it hopefully not going to crack the base if sitting on it - I doubt it.  If it does,  then lesson learned and I get a new toilet out of it after wasting 20 bucks in new materials.  

Hoping by noon or so tomorrow to get it all put back together and crossing my fingers,toes, and eyes just in case and hope NO water leaks.  Sometimes I think new materials can sometimes leak since the old crusted on stuff was so cacked on no leaks could happen, although not really since the flush valve had to be leaking at the seal allowing water to pass from tank to toilet.

[davit]

Don't do it, the toilet bolts won't spin.

[KY,Dave (AKA Misunderstood)]

I would NOT do that either

[Patrick]

You're having a helluva time with that thing. Maybe it is best to just install a new one.

I wouldn't use any nuts below the toilet unless they are very very thin ones.

When able to access from below I drill thru the flange hole thru the floor and install a brass [ I always use brass even if not drilling thru the floor] carriage bolt holding it in place with a cut off electric staple. If I can't get under the toilet then I just use the flange.

[cookiedough]

DONE finally.  What a PITA!  My 6" stock OEM hard metal water flow inlet tube would not work since 1/4" too long making the rear toilet tank uneven and my 12" flexible tubing water line I bought originally was too much of a tight bend in it to double up, so had to run to expensive local hardware store 6 miles away and buy an overpriced 9" flexible water supply line able to S curve the stainless steel line in much easier to fit it onto the connectors. 

Dumbest thing I did which I sure hope does not come back to bite me in the butt:  The new wax ring I bought with plastic sleeve that goes down inside down below toilet better NOT be an issue.  I was a dumb_hit and went to wiggle the toilet back on with new wax ring,  and I forgot to take out the cloth rag in the hole down below.  So,  wife of course noticed it 5 seconds AFTER I put the seal back on and pushed down somewhat and had to lift the toilet back off.  It broke the seal of wax to the plastic/rubber seal of the wax ring since when I took it back off,  the seal was stuck onto the opening below toilet NOT to the wax anymore.  So,  since I did NOT have another new wax ring,  I pushed the plastic/rubber seal back onto the bottom of the toilet and molded the wax around it somewhat like it was, but am sure NOT as good of a seal as when it was pushed down the first time.

I was SOOO PISSED what an idiot move to NOT remove the rag BEFORE pushing down the toilet with new wax ring. 

So far, NO leaks and works well but might have to cut off more chain if the excess gets caught in the flapper valve like it did when flushing the first 2-3 times before I cut near 1/2 of the plastic chain off.

I still can't believe I didn't remove the cloth rag BEFORE setting the toilet with new wax ring.  I sure hope it doesn't leak down below toilet onto floor/basement but I guess will find out?  I molded the new wax up around the rubber seal pretty good again, but they make just plain wax rings without the rubber seal attached so should be fine.   The wax ring box says the rubber seal molded in the middle to the wax itself helps ensure a tighter seal, but they also make the wax rings without the seal just plain old wax so should be fine.  It didn't compress the wax too much anyways sitting the toilet down onto the floor anyways the first time since the poddy sits pretty level on the level floor to begin with and flush to the floor with no gap anywhere around the toilet.  I was hoping though the rubber seal would stay attached to the new wax ring lifting it up again, not stuck to the floor hole opening when lifting it up to remove the cloth rag, but wasn't that lucky. 

I asked a plumber a long time ago and I believe he said he has used 2 plain old wax rings down below just to be safe, but I think that is overkill?

I have not sat on the poddy yet but the wife has so I guess I will find out next time I have to go #2 if the wax ring seal leaks water onto the floor me being near 2x's as heavy as the wife. 

I vaguely remember some 13+ years ago the other toilet had leaking water all over the toilet floor and was due to 1 of 2 things.  I saw the floor bolt was broken off on one side plus maybe the old wax was not sealing or a combo of both.  I remember undo-ing that toilet as well replacing the flange bolts/new wax ring,  but for whatever reason,  found it to not be as difficult as this one was.    I guess 10+ years older, less patience and some 50lbs. heavier doesn't agree with me too well?   

Am sure almost all of us remember when families were larger say 4-10 kids each and the house ONLY had 1 toilet vs. most have 2-3 nowadays.  I  know we survived with 1 poddy, but nowadays sure is nice to have a backup 'just in case' one fails and takes 2 trips to the store and several hours of repairing what needs fixing.   20 bucks in new parts is better than a new toilet costing over a hundred, but it better last another 20 years?    I totally dislike my mother in laws fancier water saving high end toilet which am sure saves on water and has a more powerful flush, but it just doesn't sit right with me on it plus hardly any water in the toilet so leaves residue all the time.

One thing I did notice is the flapper seal that the chain attaches to has a 1-7 adjustment for amount of water to be filled into the toilet and it actually works.  I had it set in the middle at 4, but after flushing it a few times,  the water level in the toilet was about 1 inch lower than normal, so I shut off the water, flushed poddy, and set it to the 2 mark allowing more water inside the toilet.  Now that it went up another 1 inch in water level, is about where the old one was at so leaving it alone for now.  It might be a water saving feature, but I like WATER in my toilet just in case #2 is a big one....   

I still might cut off 4-5 more links of the chain from the push handle rod to the rubber seal/flapper since the length of the plastic chain still 'almost' gets caught inside the rubber flapper when trying to fill back up with water.   

However,  although this cost me only about 20 bucks in parts for new fill and flush valve,  new flange bolts, wax ring, and water supply line,  I should have gotten it done near 2 months ago when I noticed it hissing slightly and kept getting worse and worse since my past 2 months water/sewer bills went up 20 bucks one month and near 30 bucks the other month which explains why. 

I live in a small WI rural town and our water/sewer bill for a family of 4 is CRAZY high  I bet more than most of you pay.  We were paying around 100-110 bucks EVERY month for water/sewer and just got yet another rate increase about the same time my toilet started leaking so will see how much in next 1-2 months the water bill rate increase was vs. how much was due to a leaking toilet since last bill was over 140 bucks-OUCH!!!   Now, my mom all alone living in the next small rural town 12 miles away from me, granted all alone,  and she flushes toilet 1-2 times tops per day vs. us 10 times or more per day (for 4 of us) ONLY pays 100 dollars once EVERY 3 months is all for water and sewer.  I verified with my neighbors as well being for a family of four being about 100-110 bucks EVERY month for water and sewer bill - that is NUTS!  I keep telling my kids and wife they do NOT need to flush the toilet after peeing EVERY single time can wait until the next time at least, but not like they listen to me anyways.      

We just got new hi-tech water meters installed in every house in town in our basement so they can read them somehow electronically for water usage.  I wonder if those meters are that accurate as well?  If it is 140 bucks NEXT month for water/sewer bill,  then that is one heck of a price increase since we never water the lawn not using much outside water but most of the bill is sewer related.

[Patrick]

Good, glad its working.

I'd recommend cutting the excess chain, but, not too short. I also see many chains adjusted too tight, I like to have about a good half inch slack in the arm.