Metric vs. Harley mechanics

[falconbrother]

I am back on the Valkyrie after a number of years on Harleys.  Within the Harley community good mechanics are pretty common.  But, it seems to me that a good metric mechanic for motorcycles is really hard to find.  The local dealer does terrible work.  Everyone I know that has had their bike worked on there comes home with a story.  When I had my last Valk I got a new back tire there and they broke the kickstand spring retainer.  My buddy took his VTX there because it wouldn't run.  It cost him several hundred dollars and they didn't fix it.  I sent him to an indie Harley repair shop and they fixed it by rebuilding the carb. 

Now that I'm back on a metric bike I know that I have to do all my own work, which is what I did on my Harleys too.  But, I'm also not getting any younger and a Valkyrie Interstate is bloody heavy.  Is my perception incorrect? 

[Michvalk]

Well, the bike needs very little work, so that's a plus. Most maintenance is fairly easy, and most tools are already in your toolbox. Get a good lift, and keep the computer handy, as all you need to know is on this site. welcome in, and enjoy the bike

[Hook#3287]

Within the Harley community good mechanics are pretty common.

Supply and demand

Not to bash HD (which ain't hard to do) there is a lot more of them and they seem to have more issues.

Like Michvalk says, Valks are more reliable, have less issues and are relatively easy to work on.

[hubcapsc]

When I had my Harley, I got the impression that the mechanics
down at the Harley shop were "Harley trained", they had brightly
lit clean workspaces and they sweated all the details. There were two
or three of them back there, busy all the time, you could watch
them through a window.

At Honda shops, for some reason, the mechanic just seems like "some guy",
it is dark back there and they don't really want you looking back there.

-Mike "impressions..."

[baldo]

When I had my Harley, I got the impression that the mechanics
down at the Harley shop were "Harley trained", they had brightly
lit clean workspaces and they sweated all the details. There were two
or three of them back there, busy all the time, you could watch
them through a window.

At Honda shops, for some reason, the mechanic just seems like "some guy",
it is dark back there and they don't really want you looking back there.

-Mike "impressions..."

That's pretty funny visually....

[RudyF6]

At Honda shops, for some reason, the mechanic just seems like "some guy",
it is dark back there and they don't really want you looking back there.

-Mike "impressions..."

I was getting tires changed once (carried in rims/tires) and was watching through the open walk-through door to the shop. The service manager actually walked over and stood in the doorway to block my view.

[Simmy74]

I think it's really about familiarity.   At the HD shop they get  several similar /identical bikes everyday.   Most of the Metric shops around are "powersports" specialists expected to service everything from a RAZR buggy to an arctic cat sled, to a yamaha crotch rocket, to a honda dirt bike etc....

We are at a disadvantage in this case, but a good mechanic with access to good service documentation SHOULD be able to follow the process through for any bike, IF they're professional and disciplined about it.

So if you find one like that-  please let me know. 

[G-Man]

I don't trust the local Honda and metric dealers in my area at all.

One tried to talk me out of buying a Valkyrie in the summer of 2003, telling me I should wait for the 2004's.  

One charged me $40 for removing throwover bags when changing a rear tire for me.  I was able to see my bike in the shop and all they did was lift up the bags and bungeed them to each other above the passenger seat.

Another charged me an additional $25 fee, on top of the installation fee of a tire on my rim because I didn't buy the tire there.  And they didn't tell me this when I asked how much to install a tire on my rim.  I only got the installation fee.

An employee at the closest Honda dealer confided that they never work on flat-6 bikes, even the Goldwings they sell never come back there for service.

I'm hoping Bill can make his way to NY.  Would be great to have the bike looked at and serviced by the expert.  Wish we could clone him.  

[sandy]

Sad stories: Here in the PHX area we have several great metric mechanics. From BigBF, Western Honda, D&D Discount MC and GoAZ Motorcycle. All have fine guys that do good work.

[98valk]

had my bike dyno'd recently. its sitting in front of the dyno booth waiting to go in. One of the mechanics brings into the shop a GL1500 GW. Looks over at my bike and screams "what the hell is that?"
this is a large dealership with all the major brands including Honda which has it's own separate section.
I just had to laugh.

[Steve K (IA)]

When I had my Harley, I got the impression that the mechanics
down at the Harley shop were "Harley trained", they had brightly
lit clean workspaces and they sweated all the details. There were two
or three of them back there, busy all the time, you could watch
them through a window.

At Honda shops, for some reason, the mechanic just seems like "some guy",
it is dark back there and they don't really want you looking back there.

-Mike "impressions..."

I think Harley trained is the key.  At the HD shops, all they work on is HD.  Mechanics can get pretty proficient if all they work on is one brand. 

At most metric shops they sell and service several different brands.

My "Honda Shop" sells Indians, Polaris, Victory, Honda, Yamaha and Kawasaki.

This past Friday I took the rim and tire from my '97 Std to get a tire put on.  Was asked what it came off.  Told them a Valkyrie, they said "you need a new tire already"?  They thought I had one of the new ones.  Most those guys don't have a clue what an original Valk is.

[da prez]

Our main work is on HD's. We do all bikes. Harley does not want to work on bikes more than two years old. We have a lot of work all the time. I had one in recently that was totaled by the dealer because mice got into the fairing. I cleaned and rewired it but could not save the radio. It was a $750.00 repair and the insurance paid off the bike and the owner walked away with a bundle of money.

     B T W . 75% of all Harleys sold are still on the road.
                            The other 25% made it home.

                                                        da prez

[scooperhsd]

As always - this is a local area situation. My Honda dealer is first class - bright clean workareas, not afraid of the customer to watch them work (heck they probably let us closer than their insurance would prefer !!).

da prez - while good for a chuckle, I don't think even Harley's are that bad any more. They had to step it up when everybody else started making good bikes as well.

[jimmytee]

Most Harley's are very similar to work on. I mean, heck they're all a very similar v twins to start with, plus very similar platforms .Metrics come in many forms and configurations.

[allanbegg]

I have a (not so) local independent repair shop that specializes in Honda's. He was the senior repair technician at the local (Gettysburg, PA) Honda dealership, until they closed the doors about 20 years ago. He bought out the shops parts inventory and service equipment, moved it all into his garage and has been working independently ever since.

He recently built a nice big shop along the road side because he had outgrown his two-car garage and basement. The funny thing is that he doesn't have a sign outside the place, indicating what he does. He's so busy working (primarily) on Honda's, that he doesn't have to advertise. Everyone in the area knows to go to him. He has better parts inventory than any of the Honda dealers in the area and is more knowledgeable than the majority of the dealership technicians.

I think part of the problem is that dealerships don't value their technicians and as a result, the tech's don't stay in the business too long. A fresh batch of kids coming out of the technician trade schools are willing to work for next to nothing. The dealerships are all too eager to replace a senior technician that was making some decent money with a young kid that is still wet behind the ears. Turn-over is high in the service department at a lot of the dealerships I know of.

On a related note, I do all of the work on my Valkyrie. My son is a (still wet behind the ears) service tech at the local Honda dealership...

Allan

[Willow]

The real issue with dealerships is that they make the bulk of their money selling new motorcycles.  They obviously provide service to keep the customer attached until he's ready to buy his next new motorcycle. 

By contrast the independent motorcycle shop makes the bulk of its money working on motorcycles.

Business is about money and motivation.

[art]

I don't ride anymore and sure miss it but to chime in, I have taken my 02 valk in to a few dealerships for simple parts like Oil filters and information. The people behind the counter didn't even know what a valk was. One asked me if it was a Honda and if it was a v twin.  Another non Honda shop had my valk for three weeks for carb work and never fixed the problem. The only success I've ever had was to do it myself.

[jdp]

I kinda know what he's talking about, I'm a Harley tech and ride a Valkyrie, working on Harley's is like working on a farm tractor, they are so far behind on the technical stuff, I guess they wanted to stay nostalgia thing going, and all the models are basically the same and year by year nothing changes too much, now look at the metric bikes, oh my god there are so many different models and they change so much of the technical part of the bike, one thing about Harley is they have great PR work and good schools they send there mechanics to. They (Harley riders) should send the customers to school and teach them they all don't have to act like tough guys.

[Rams]

They (Harley riders) should send the customers to school and teach them they all don't have to act like tough guys.

Just like any group (this one included) there are those who think their "stuff" doesn't stink.

Well, that just ain't true.    Every now and then, even mine has a not so nice aroma.   

[baldo]

They (Harley riders) should send the customers to school and teach them they all don't have to act like tough guys.

Just like any group (this one included) there are those who think their "stuff" doesn't stink.

Well, that just ain't true.    Every now and then, even mine has a not so nice aroma.   

TMI....

[Robert]

Repetition

If you practice something long enough then you may just get good at it.

Harleys not many changes plenty of practice at repairing existing technology

Jap bikes many changes, many model variations, not much uniformity, different problems, not much repetition

Just the facts.

of any type of repair technology.

I love the look of some of the Harleys but 2 cylinders just never did it for me. As for the riders I feel sorry for those who find their identity in a bike rather than in themselves. Its great to know who is real and who is not makes it easy to know who to talk to.

As for the motorcycle business a good deal of bikes are pleasure and a good deal repair their own bikes. The shop rates for motorcycles have not really kept pace with the times and most dont want to spend big bucks on repairs of a elected item like a bike. So good techs are few and far between. Couple that with personal habits of excellence and being a field of choice rather than have to and the amount of good techs goes way down.

If you really had to pay comparative rates on repairing say Valkyrie carbs to other businesses it would come out to over 1000.00 dollars in my estimating. Its not easy, its not fast, it might not be fun and the problems and knowledge associated with repairing them is acquired by trial and error and smarts and the only thing that keeps the tech out of problems and give a good repair. Lawyers can get 500.00 an hour techs may get 20 to 30 of the shop rate if good and have to work sometimes under not the best conditions. Harley does treat most techs a bit better and they have the chance to earn more if they spring out on thier own and make custom bikes. So its no surprise about the tech issue.

[Safety Steve]

I live in Richland, WA and we had a local shop that sold riding gear and did had 3 mechanics that worked on bikes, when they closed up shop I took my bike to the Victory/Indian shop.  There have very little turn over, In the 3 years that they have been servicing my Valk there has only been 3 people who have quit and the mechanic side has stayed the same, as a matter of fact they hired the head mechanic from the old place I used to take my bike to. 
Now there rates are a little high but you get whet you pay for and these guys know there stuff and if they don't they would bull crap me, as there head mechanic told me once, "Steve we want your bike to be running right and to be safe because we care about you and want you to come back, and I hang out there and no one is trying to sell me a bike.  very low key.  They treat each other as family.

[Moonshot_1]

Repetition


Harleys not many changes plenty of practice at repairing existing technology

What are you talking about????

Just the last year alone Harley went through at least 14 different zipper and 56 button designs for their clothing and 4 major lacing variations on their boots.

[The emperor has no clothes]

When I was 14 I had a Suzuki TC90 and used to spend a fair amount of time hanging out at the Suzuki shop. They were good guys and it was fun listening to their stories. I also had a Yamaha snowmachine and also spent a fair amount of time there. Same thing, they were good guys with good stories. But where everybody wanted to hang out was at the Kawasaki shop. The owner and head mechanic was a guy named "Squeaks" O'Conner. He was a legend. Great at hopping up the Triples, great stories, etc. But it wasn't cool to hang out there unless you had a Kawasaki. So I used to talk my buddy with a Kawasaki 500 to go down and hang out there. Incidentally nobody wanted to hang at the Honda shop. They had a new modern dealership and were a bunch of arrogant bastards.

[Firefighter]

Only two Honda dealers in my area, next one would be at least 200 miles away. Dealers always have to be in a hurry, time is money, and there is no way they could work on my 16 year old Interstate. Wouldn't know how, and would not take the time it takes to figure things out. Would break the old plastic and leave things wrong. Like someone said already, bikes are old after a couple of years.

I bought a new Yamaha Raptor in 2002, the dealer sold me high performance accessories and were my servants at the time, a few years later they would leave the machine outside and work on new stuff first.

The dealer mechanics in my area seem to be druggy types and don't seem to care if you are there or not.

[Moonshot_1]

Got a Honda dealer in Storm Lake Iowa. One of the area's largest.

Earlier this year I was taking my Interstate to a local mechanic. Own an Auto parts store and does MC work in the rear of the store.

We began to have a history that was not real good. Many mistakes and some scary stuff. For example he rebuilt the front forks and about 3 miles down the road the left one begins to come apart internally. Got a little sporty.

So to fix that and a myriad of other problems I broke down and took it to the dealer.

I purchased this bike a year ago in Mason City and found out that it had passed through the Storm Lake dealership as a used bike 4-5 years ago. In fact my Son in Law and I were in the dealership at that time the bike was on the showroom floor. He thought it was a brand new bike.

Anyway, I'm in the service area talking with the owner about the bike and telling him that I was pretty sure the bike came through the shop. The mechanic overheard us and said he knew the bike, who had previously owned it and probably more history of it than I did.

Bike was instantly inside when I got it trailered over. All the repairs, while not particularly extensive were many, were done inside of 2 days. Picked up some beef jerky and a six pack for the mechs tip. All the ailments fixed and has been running and handling great.

New front tire, installed, re-rebuild the forks, replaced intake o-rings, and shock bushings and oil change due to leaky oil filter from previously mentioned mechanic. $650. Could have been a lot worse.

Some good guys out there yet.

[Jess Tolbirt]

Our main work is on HD's. We do all bikes. Harley does not want to work on bikes more than two years old. We have a lot of work all the time. I had one in recently that was totaled by the dealer because mice got into the fairing. I cleaned and rewired it but could not save the radio. It was a $750.00 repair and the insurance paid off the bike and the owner walked away with a bundle of money.

     B T W . 75% of all Harleys sold are still on the road.
                            The other 25% made it home.

                                                        da prez

so only 25% of them broke down? and the millions of the rest of the harleys are still on the road? i would say thats a pretty good average right there...