Rams
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Posts: 16684
So many colors to choose from yet so few stand out
Covington, TN
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« on: August 11, 2016, 08:38:03 AM » |
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Does stopping an intruder mean that they have to die? Non-lethal ways of defense? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6a8XzuwJLFwSome may disagree with me but, my response to this is yes, Intruders should be worried about not leaving under their own power. But, I can see this as a potential tool for riot control. |
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VRCC# 29981
Learning the majority of life's lessons the hard way.
Every trip is an adventure, enjoy it while it lasts.
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Gavin_Sons
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Posts: 7109
VRCC# 32796
columbus indiana
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« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2016, 08:42:49 AM » |
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My 40 cal. or 12 gauge would work better. I agree, anyone willing to break into my house or rob me is willing to give his life for what i have.
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« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2016, 08:45:12 AM » |
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With a bullet you can be as close as you want. With SALT do you get impacted if too close?
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Rams
Member
Posts: 16684
So many colors to choose from yet so few stand out
Covington, TN
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« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2016, 08:48:30 AM » |
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With a bullet you can be as close as you want. With SALT do you get impacted if too close?
Based on the video, I'd have to suggest that contact with the chemicals would not be good. Therefore, one should assume that being close would not be a good thing. Having said that, there's really only one way to know and I'm not willing to be a test subject. How about you?  |
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VRCC# 29981
Learning the majority of life's lessons the hard way.
Every trip is an adventure, enjoy it while it lasts.
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« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2016, 08:51:31 AM » |
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With a bullet you can be as close as you want. With SALT do you get impacted if too close?
Based on the video, I'd have to suggest that contact with the chemicals would not be good. Therefore, one should assume that being close would not be a good thing. Having said that, there's really only one way to know and I'm not willing to be a test subject. How about you? I may be a tad silly at times but I aint crazy! |
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Jess from VA
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« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2016, 08:58:40 AM » |
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Keep in mind that even with a less than lethal firearm/projectile, the police, prosecutor and courts are going to hold you to pretty much the same standards in use of force as a real firearm/projectile. IE if you shoot someone with salt, the inquiry about whether you were allowed to shoot at all will be the same. IE, just because it's salt doesn't mean you can now go out and snipe them off your property because they are trespassing (but offering you no harm).
IE, you can shoot to defend life and limb, not to defend property (yes TX may allow an exception, not that I would rely on it).
I personally would be very reluctant to go armed with a less than lethal firearm/projectile, which the bad guys will see as a lethal firearm, causing them to go right to their lethal firearms, knives or ball bats anyway, if they have them.
If I did use one, I'd have a real one stuck in my pants.
A regulation police carry Taser would be my choice for a less than lethal firearm, but they are pretty expensive, and you have to be pretty close. (and I'd still have a real one stuck in my pants)
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« Last Edit: August 11, 2016, 09:03:21 AM by Jess from VA »
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Serk
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« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2016, 09:00:05 AM » |
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So wait, now liberals are in FAVOR of a-salt-weapons?
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« Last Edit: August 11, 2016, 09:02:40 AM by Serk »
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Never ask a geek 'Why?',just nod your head and slowly back away...  IBA# 22107 VRCC# 7976 VRCCDS# 226 1998 Valkyrie Standard 2008 Gold Wing Taxation is theft. μολὼν λαβέ |
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Rams
Member
Posts: 16684
So many colors to choose from yet so few stand out
Covington, TN
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« Reply #7 on: August 11, 2016, 09:03:06 AM » |
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I agree with Jess and his insights but, it goes further.
How many times have the bad guys (the intruders) sued the home owners and won.
I see no reason to risk life and/or limb to protect the rights or safety of an intruder.
Dead men tell no tales.
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VRCC# 29981
Learning the majority of life's lessons the hard way.
Every trip is an adventure, enjoy it while it lasts.
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Jess from VA
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« Reply #8 on: August 11, 2016, 09:08:55 AM » |
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I agree with Jess and his insights but, it goes further.
How many times have the bad guys (the intruders) sued the home owners and won.
I see no reason to risk life and/or limb to protect the rights or safety of an intruder.
Dead men tell no tales.
But survivors often bring wrongful death civil suits, and plenty of plaintiff's attorneys will handle those cases for a contingent fee, costing the family nothing if they lose, and half or more of what you own to win. Better you bury the perp in the hill (not YOUR hill). (Assuming there is no wheel-man witness(es) waiting in the car out on the street) |
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« Last Edit: August 11, 2016, 09:12:33 AM by Jess from VA »
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Rams
Member
Posts: 16684
So many colors to choose from yet so few stand out
Covington, TN
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« Reply #9 on: August 11, 2016, 09:12:30 AM » |
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I agree with Jess and his insights but, it goes further.
How many times have the bad guys (the intruders) sued the home owners and won.
I see no reason to risk life and/or limb to protect the rights or safety of an intruder.
Dead men tell no tales.
But survivors often bring wrongful death civil suits, and plenty of plaintiff's attorneys will handle those cases for a contingent fee, costing the family nothing if they lose, and half or more of what you own to win. Better you bury the perp in the hill. (Assuming there is no wheel-man witness(es) waiting in the car out on the street) I'm assuming that burial would take place prior to calling the police and insurance to report a burglary? |
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VRCC# 29981
Learning the majority of life's lessons the hard way.
Every trip is an adventure, enjoy it while it lasts.
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Jess from VA
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« Reply #10 on: August 11, 2016, 09:13:27 AM » |
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I'm not calling anyone. Nothing happened.... that I am aware of.
If you are calling anyone, leave the perp where he lies. (maybe drag him all the way into the house (with no blood trail), and make sure he is armed with something that cannot be tied to you)
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« Last Edit: August 11, 2016, 09:15:46 AM by Jess from VA »
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Serk
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« Reply #11 on: August 11, 2016, 09:22:46 AM » |
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All this talk of litigation, I'm SO glad I live in a Castle Law state...
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Never ask a geek 'Why?',just nod your head and slowly back away... IBA# 22107 VRCC# 7976 VRCCDS# 226 1998 Valkyrie Standard 2008 Gold Wing Taxation is theft. μολὼν λαβέ |
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Rams
Member
Posts: 16684
So many colors to choose from yet so few stand out
Covington, TN
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« Reply #12 on: August 11, 2016, 09:24:49 AM » |
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I'm not calling anyone. Nothing happened.... that I am aware of.
If you are calling anyone, leave the perp where he lies. (maybe drag him all the way into the house (with no blood trail), and make sure he is armed with something that cannot be tied to you)
 True story as relayed by my Uncle. His home and his story. He caught an armed intruder breaking into his home. The intruder was breaking in through a window and was not all the way inside. My Uncle caught him and (he says) shouted out to stop the guy. Again, he says the intruder kept trying to get inside, getting almost through the window when my Uncle fired his weapon. The blast knocked the intruder about half way back out of the window. He wasn't inside nor, outside but, hanging there. He called the Sheriff's office, a deputy arrived first and helped pull the intruder out of the window. The deputy then advised my Uncle, that is where he fell when you dropped him, inside the house. My Uncle was not charged, prosecuted or sued. Things may have changed since then, that was over forty years ago.  |
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VRCC# 29981
Learning the majority of life's lessons the hard way.
Every trip is an adventure, enjoy it while it lasts.
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Jess from VA
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« Reply #13 on: August 11, 2016, 09:52:26 AM » |
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Great story, but I would advise against attempting to involve the police in altering a crime scene.
Esp if they are wearing body cams.
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FLAVALK
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« Reply #14 on: August 11, 2016, 12:37:59 PM » |
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All this talk of litigation, I'm SO glad I live in a Castle Law state...
DITTO brother |
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Live From Sunny Winter Springs Florida via Huntsville Alabama
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solo1
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« Reply #15 on: August 11, 2016, 01:20:39 PM » |
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Lots of bad advice here on using deadly force. Times have changed. You modify the scene before the cops arrive and you will be in deep dodo. Castle doctrine or not, you better be right legally to defend yourself and others.
As for the salt gun, most encounters are close ones. Bad idea, you could get the stuff on you.
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Rams
Member
Posts: 16684
So many colors to choose from yet so few stand out
Covington, TN
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« Reply #16 on: August 11, 2016, 01:30:22 PM » |
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Lots of bad advice here on using deadly force. Times have changed. You modify the scene before the cops arrive and you will be in deep dodo. Castle doctrine or not, you better be right legally to defend yourself and others.
As for the salt gun, most encounters are close ones. Bad idea, you could get the stuff on you.
Looked through the thread, where's the advice? I agree with you on close encounters on the salt gun. |
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VRCC# 29981
Learning the majority of life's lessons the hard way.
Every trip is an adventure, enjoy it while it lasts.
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Gavin_Sons
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Posts: 7109
VRCC# 32796
columbus indiana
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« Reply #17 on: August 11, 2016, 01:53:51 PM » |
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If you break into my house I do not know your intentions. I can only assume since you forced entry your intentions are not good. So, therefore you will be shot dead. I have a family to protect and will not put up with any intruders. You made the choice to break in well knowimg it could get you killed. It's a little different if you tresspass, or break into my shed, the shed is not attatched to the house so you may just get a warning shot or the dog sent after you.
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Bighead
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« Reply #18 on: August 11, 2016, 02:39:59 PM » |
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I agree with Jess and his insights but, it goes further.
How many times have the bad guys (the intruders) sued the home owners and won.
I see no reason to risk life and/or limb to protect the rights or safety of an intruder.
Dead men tell no tales.
But survivors often bring wrongful death civil suits, and plenty of plaintiff's attorneys will handle those cases for a contingent fee, costing the family nothing if they lose, and half or more of what you own to win. Better you bury the perp in the hill (not YOUR hill). (Assuming there is no wheel-man witness(es) waiting in the car out on the street) Jess I agree with what you say but I also think that ANY lawyer willing to take a case such as this should be dis-barred and possibly hung  |
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1997 Bumble Bee
1999 Interstate (sold)
2016 Wing
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Jess from VA
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« Reply #19 on: August 11, 2016, 03:44:37 PM » |
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I agree with Jess and his insights but, it goes further.
How many times have the bad guys (the intruders) sued the home owners and won.
I see no reason to risk life and/or limb to protect the rights or safety of an intruder.
Dead men tell no tales.
But survivors often bring wrongful death civil suits, and plenty of plaintiff's attorneys will handle those cases for a contingent fee, costing the family nothing if they lose, and half or more of what you own to win. Better you bury the perp in the hill (not YOUR hill). (Assuming there is no wheel-man witness(es) waiting in the car out on the street) Jess I agree with what you say but I also think that ANY lawyer willing to take a case such as this should be dis-barred and possibly hung BigH, there are so many deserving of hanging ..... where to start? Really, the best protection from all kinds of civil liability is the Castle doctrines (and similar laws) of the various states. And if you are worth anything, with a lot of insurance anyway (health, life, car, bike, boat, trailer, house) adding a million in balloon liability wraparound is not a bad idea either (if it's not too spendy). Not that this lowers the degree of care you must exercise in defending yourself. And BTW, burying someone in the hill is distinctly not legal advice. (since it could get you disbarred.... among other things) |
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« Last Edit: August 11, 2016, 03:48:28 PM by Jess from VA »
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Rams
Member
Posts: 16684
So many colors to choose from yet so few stand out
Covington, TN
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« Reply #20 on: August 11, 2016, 04:01:31 PM » |
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And BTW, burying someone in the hill is distinctly not legal advice. (since it could get you disbarred.... among other things)
Jess, If, I was to have such an opportunity, I assure you, the burial would not occur in my own back yard. But, I was wondering if you had a garden that needs weeding. |
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VRCC# 29981
Learning the majority of life's lessons the hard way.
Every trip is an adventure, enjoy it while it lasts.
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DavRed
Member
Posts: 345
Buckeye AZ
Phoenix AZ
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« Reply #21 on: August 11, 2016, 06:45:40 PM » |
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I like the concept of using this for riot control... I have several of these around my property in work shops and my house. The house is only armed when I leave. You may come in but after 12 seconds you are leaving.. http://www.burglarbomb.com/If you come in when I am home. All bets are off. I will do my best to make sure this is your last job... |
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Rams
Member
Posts: 16684
So many colors to choose from yet so few stand out
Covington, TN
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« Reply #22 on: August 11, 2016, 06:57:33 PM » |
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I like the concept of using this for riot control... I have several of these around my property in work shops and my house. The house is only armed when I leave. You may come in but after 12 seconds you are leaving.. http://www.burglarbomb.com/If you come in when I am home. All bets are off. I will do my best to make sure this is your last job... I agree. Those are some interesting options. Not real sure how my 165 lb. dog is going to react to that though. |
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VRCC# 29981
Learning the majority of life's lessons the hard way.
Every trip is an adventure, enjoy it while it lasts.
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Hook#3287
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« Reply #23 on: August 12, 2016, 06:54:57 AM » |
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I like the concept of using this for riot control... I have several of these around my property in work shops and my house. The house is only armed when I leave. You may come in but after 12 seconds you are leaving.. http://www.burglarbomb.com/If you come in when I am home. All bets are off. I will do my best to make sure this is your last job... Those are very interesting. Setting them off by forgetting their there would be my concern.  |
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Jess from VA
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« Reply #24 on: August 12, 2016, 08:15:21 AM » |
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I like the concept of using this for riot control... I have several of these around my property in work shops and my house. The house is only armed when I leave. You may come in but after 12 seconds you are leaving.. http://www.burglarbomb.com/If you come in when I am home. All bets are off. I will do my best to make sure this is your last job... Those are very interesting. Setting them off by forgetting their there would be my concern. That's OK, you'd probably only do it once.  |
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Jess Tolbirt
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« Reply #25 on: August 12, 2016, 09:12:16 AM » |
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due to the high cost of ammunition,, there will be no warning shots..
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