Obama care

[The emperor has no clothes]

Hmmmm - I am noticing that a certain group of our folks have yet to chime in on this. Interesting.

It gets tiring debating the same thing over and over.

[Patrick]

Hmmmm - I am noticing that a certain group of our folks have yet to chime in on this. Interesting.

It gets tiring debating the same thing over and over.

It all depends on what the 'debate' is about though huh.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Hmmmm - I am noticing that a certain group of our folks have yet to chime in on this. Interesting.

It gets tiring debating the same thing over and over.

It all depends on what the 'debate' is about though huh.

This issue has been hashed and trashed for years.

[baldo]

Hmmmm - I am noticing that a certain group of our folks have yet to chime in on this. Interesting.

It gets tiring debating the same thing over and over.

It all depends on what the 'debate' is about though huh.

This issue has been hashed and trashed for years.

I've avoided getting involved for the same reason, Rob. It gets really old arguing the same points, time after time.

Having said that, as I've stated several times in the past, the ACA is not perfect. It's a first step, and would have been a much larger step had it not been for the constant obstruction from the right. This is in response to those that crow that "no Republican voted for it".

I fervently hope and pray that this election returns at least the Senate to the Democrats. I am so sick of that cursed turtle-faced cretin Majority leader. He's already making noise AGAIN about how he's "proud" that he doesn't plane to do his job. Disgusting. And not a damn thing we can do about it, except vote that POS OUT.

Now to get back to the OP. I haven't heard anything like is being described as far as premiums with huge increases where I live. And I'm not saying it's not happening. But step back and take a look at it. I know in some cases, the blame can be squarely dropped on the cursed insurance companies themselves playing their usual BS games, knowing it'll be blamed on the ACA.

My last post on this thread, there are only so any hours in the day. I'd rather bring Trump's Follies to the masses...

[Wizzard]

Hmmmm - I am noticing that a certain group of our folks have yet to chime in on this. Interesting.

It gets tiring debating the same thing over and over.

It all depends on what the 'debate' is about though huh.

This issue has been hashed and trashed for years.

I've avoided getting involved for the same reason, Rob. It gets really old arguing the same points, time after time.

Having said that, as I've stated several times in the past, the ACA is not perfect. It's a first step, and would have been a much larger step had it not been for the constant obstruction from the right. This is in response to those that crow that "no Republican voted for it".

I fervently hope and pray that this election returns at least the Senate to the Democrats. I am so sick of that cursed turtle-faced cretin Majority leader. He's already making noise AGAIN about how he's "proud" that he doesn't plane to do his job. Disgusting. And not a damn thing we can do about it, except vote that POS OUT.

Now to get back to the OP. I haven't heard anything like is being described as far as premiums with huge increases where I live. And I'm not saying it's not happening. But step back and take a look at it. I know in some cases, the blame can be squarely dropped on the cursed insurance companies themselves playing their usual BS games, knowing it'll be blamed on the ACA.

My last post on this thread, there are only so any hours in the day. I'd rather bring Trump's Follies to the masses...

Now you are blaming God? Whats with the language. I can tolerate any argument and read and try to understand,, but when you start using foul words,,, especially God's name in vain ,, you lost it with me. My dad always told me that people who swear a lot do so because they have nothing intelligent to say. Starting to believe it.

[baldo]

Hmmmm - I am noticing that a certain group of our folks have yet to chime in on this. Interesting.

It gets tiring debating the same thing over and over.

It all depends on what the 'debate' is about though huh.

This issue has been hashed and trashed for years.

I've avoided getting involved for the same reason, Rob. It gets really old arguing the same points, time after time.

Having said that, as I've stated several times in the past, the ACA is not perfect. It's a first step, and would have been a much larger step had it not been for the constant obstruction from the right. This is in response to those that crow that "no Republican voted for it".

I fervently hope and pray that this election returns at least the Senate to the Democrats. I am so sick of that cursed turtle-faced cretin Majority leader. He's already making noise AGAIN about how he's "proud" that he doesn't plane to do his job. Disgusting. And not a damn thing we can do about it, except vote that POS OUT.

Now to get back to the OP. I haven't heard anything like is being described as far as premiums with huge increases where I live. And I'm not saying it's not happening. But step back and take a look at it. I know in some cases, the blame can be squarely dropped on the cursed insurance companies themselves playing their usual BS games, knowing it'll be blamed on the ACA.

My last post on this thread, there are only so any hours in the day. I'd rather bring Trump's Follies to the masses...

Now you are blaming God? Whats with the language. I can tolerate any argument and read and try to understand,, but when you start using foul words,,, especially God's name in vain ,, you lost it with me. My dad always told me that people who swear a lot do so because they have nothing intelligent to say. Starting to believe it.

Are you serious?? With all the cursing that goes on around here, and you take exception to a few GD's?????

While I shake my head, I apologize if I offended you...

And where in the Christ do I blame god??????

[The emperor has no clothes]

I'm as bad or worse than most when it comes to cursing. I agree it's not right. But I hope nobody thinks that I am disrespecting them. I grew up in a culture of cursing amongst males of near age cursing was quite acceptable. I've stopped many things with old age. Some good, some bad. Unfortunately I will probably be prone to cuss words the rest of my days. So, as a warning. If I ever ride with anybody here and I blurt out, it's not meant personally.

[Wizzard]

Well i would explain it to you Baldo,, but you not only would not understand,, you wouldn't care anyhow. when someone gets too abrasive to me I just walk away, so that's what I will do here. I am sure I am not the only one.

[baldo]

Well i would explain it to you Baldo,, but you not only would not understand,, you wouldn't care anyhow. when someone gets too abrasive to me I just walk away, so that's what I will do here. I am sure I am not the only one.

That's the type of response I would not expect from you. Take a shot, you never know, I might surprise you. And what's with the sensitivity lately? As nasty and obnoxious more than a few members are here on this board, and you have a problem with a few low-grade curses? Seriously, i'm shocked.

Let me ask you. How many other posters here have you admonished for 'vulgarity'?

I'm not looking for a nasty back and forth with you. I'm surprised because I've always thought that you and I have had a mutually respectful 'relationship' here on the board, unlike a few.

[Rams]

Disgusting. And not a damn thing we can do about it, except vote that POS OUT.

Wait, are we talking about Obama, Pelosi or Dirty Harry?

[baldo]

Disgusting. And not a damn thing we can do about it, except vote that POS OUT.

Wait, are we talking about Obama, Pelosi or Dirty Harry?

Here, let me clear that up for you.....

[3fan4life]

Well i would explain it to you Baldo,, but you not only would not understand,, you wouldn't care anyhow. when someone gets too abrasive to me I just walk away, so that's what I will do here. I am sure I am not the only one.

That's the type of response I would not expect from you. Take a shot, you never know, I might surprise you. And what's with the sensitivity lately? As nasty and obnoxious more than a few members are here on this board, and you have a problem with a few low-grade curses? Seriously, i'm shocked.

Let me ask you. How many other posters here have you admonished for 'vulgarity'?

I'm not looking for a nasty back and forth with you. I'm surprised because I've always thought that you and I have had a mutually respectful 'relationship' here on the board, unlike a few.

http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,757.0.html

I suggest that you specifically read rule #4


Personally I see very little profanity here.

I see a good bit of things where it's clear what the implied word is, but it isn't actually used.

Maybe, it's just having grown up in the south but around here GD is at the top of the list of bad words.

It is the one that got you slapped across the face by mom or dad.

I'm over 50 yrs old and I still won't let that one slip around my mother.


One of the things about this forum is the civility.

Yes, things get out of hand sometimes but not nearly as out of hand as Facebook and others.

It is a good policy not to say anything to anyone here that you wouldn't say to their face.

Not just becuse it's one of the rules, because it's a good practice.

It's that do unto others thing.

You are definately guilty of pushing the envelope when it comes to that one.

I have ready many exchanges between you and other members that most likely would've led to a fist fight had they happened face to face.



Ask yourself, Is that really the reputation that you desire to have here?


I know that you have participated in events and rides in person.

I don't know for sure but, I'm betting that you conducted yourself differently then.


It is possible to disagree without being disagreable.

It is somewhat of a challenge, but you can be up to the task.
 

[Wizzard]

Well i would explain it to you Baldo,, but you not only would not understand,, you wouldn't care anyhow. when someone gets too abrasive to me I just walk away, so that's what I will do here. I am sure I am not the only one.

That's the type of response I would not expect from you. Take a shot, you never know, I might surprise you. And what's with the sensitivity lately? As nasty and obnoxious more than a few members are here on this board, and you have a problem with a few low-grade curses? Seriously, i'm shocked.

Let me ask you. How many other posters here have you admonished for 'vulgarity'?

I'm not looking for a nasty back and forth with you. I'm surprised because I've always thought that you and I have had a mutually respectful 'relationship' here on the board, unlike a few.

I respect everyone unless they give me reason not to. I have a particular reaction to those who use God's name in vain. Just me. I can tolerate most swear words, although I still think it shows lack of intelligence, but when it is against my God I don't tolerate it. If  you were talking to me in person and did that too many times I would just walk away. And yes,, I loose respect for that person. If I tell you that it offends me and you still do it then you don't have respect for me either. I come here for the intellectual discussion and the love of Valk's. Using word's like for Christ's sake is the same to me.
If I grew up around people that were theives,, would I then just steal most of my life, ,or would I become a responsible adult and realize that I  need to change.
You carry on and do what you want, but I have stated my position.
If your God allows you to do anything you want,, then you are your God.

[Gavin_Sons]

Hmmmm - I am noticing that a certain group of our folks have yet to chime in on this. Interesting.

It gets tiring debating the same thing over and over.

It all depends on what the 'debate' is about though huh.

This issue has been hashed and trashed for years.

I've avoided getting involved for the same reason, Rob. It gets really old arguing the same points, time after time.

Having said that, as I've stated several times in the past, the ACA is not perfect. It's a first step, and would have been a much larger step had it not been for the constant obstruction from the right. This is in response to those that crow that "no Republican voted for it".

I fervently hope and pray that this election returns at least the Senate to the Democrats. I am so sick of that cursed turtle-faced cretin Majority leader. He's already making noise AGAIN about how he's "proud" that he doesn't plane to do his job. Disgusting. And not a damn thing we can do about it, except vote that POS OUT.

Now to get back to the OP. I haven't heard anything like is being described as far as premiums with huge increases where I live. And I'm not saying it's not happening. But step back and take a look at it. I know in some cases, the blame can be squarely dropped on the cursed insurance companies themselves playing their usual BS games, knowing it'll be blamed on the ACA.

My last post on this thread, there are only so any hours in the day. I'd rather bring Trump's Follies to the masses...

Is that not the job of the opposing party? To block the bull crap bills and laws the moron democraps try to push through?
If your party was blocking the republicans it would be great. We definitely do not need any more democraps in office. And ACA would never have been affordable even if the Republicans didn't try to block it. It was designed to fail and failing it is. Just a way for the dems to push more government on the people. If I ever have to get obama care I'll refuse and quit doing my taxes, they can't force me to buy their bullshit and can't fine me for not buying their bullshit.

[Rams]

Disgusting. And not a damn thing we can do about it, except vote that POS OUT.

Wait, are we talking about Obama, Pelosi or Dirty Harry?

Here, let me clear that up for you.....

Understood Bob.

While I would agree that I'm not fond of Senator McConnell, met him a few times and I'm not a real fan, it's all a matter of perspective.    Doing what he did to block Obama Care was one of better things IMHO.   Social programs are bankrupting this country.   

Personally, I don't mind that folks want to help those who are disadvantaged but, I think it should be voluntarily done, not forced by the government and not provided to those who won't support themselves, pay their own way and/or simply use giveaway programs instead of actually working for it.    In other words, spend your own money, not mine.      Democrats are very good at spending Other People's Money.    The recipients of that cash flow love Democrats and therefore are in full support of Democrat giveaways.   

Want to help folks who can't seem to make it on their own, go for it but, use your own resources.   Help them get jobs.    I donate to many causes, my donation to the government is vastly more than it should be.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Well i would explain it to you Baldo,, but you not only would not understand,, you wouldn't care anyhow. when someone gets too abrasive to me I just walk away, so that's what I will do here. I am sure I am not the only one.

That's the type of response I would not expect from you. Take a shot, you never know, I might surprise you. And what's with the sensitivity lately? As nasty and obnoxious more than a few members are here on this board, and you have a problem with a few low-grade curses? Seriously, i'm shocked.

Let me ask you. How many other posters here have you admonished for 'vulgarity'?

I'm not looking for a nasty back and forth with you. I'm surprised because I've always thought that you and I have had a mutually respectful 'relationship' here on the board, unlike a few.

http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,757.0.html

I suggest that you specifically read rule #4


Personally I see very little profanity here.

I see a good bit of things where it's clear what the implied word is, but it isn't actually used.

Maybe, it's just having grown up in the south but around here GD is at the top of the list of bad words.

It is the one that got you slapped across the face by mom or dad.

I'm over 50 yrs old and I still won't let that one slip around my mother.


One of the things about this forum is the civility.

Yes, things get out of hand sometimes but not nearly as out of hand as Facebook and others.

It is a good policy not to say anything to anyone here that you wouldn't say to their face.

Not just becuse it's one of the rules, because it's a good practice.

It's that do unto others thing.

You are definately guilty of pushing the envelope when it comes to that one.

I have ready many exchanges between you and other members that most likely would've led to a fist fight had they happened face to face.



Ask yourself, Is that really the reputation that you desire to have here?


I know that you have participated in events and rides in person.

I don't know for sure but, I'm betting that you conducted yourself differently then.


It is possible to disagree without being disagreable.

It is somewhat of a challenge, but you can be up to the task.
 

Maybe South Texas is too far south. When I was growing up the "F" word was considered the worst. Maybe it was just my family. My dad used the Lords name in vain more times than I could begin to count. But he allowed no cursing from his children. We couldn't even say dang.

[NewValker]

maybe they're busy riding.....

[baldo]

Well i would explain it to you Baldo,, but you not only would not understand,, you wouldn't care anyhow. when someone gets too abrasive to me I just walk away, so that's what I will do here. I am sure I am not the only one.

That's the type of response I would not expect from you. Take a shot, you never know, I might surprise you. And what's with the sensitivity lately? As nasty and obnoxious more than a few members are here on this board, and you have a problem with a few low-grade curses? Seriously, i'm shocked.

Let me ask you. How many other posters here have you admonished for 'vulgarity'?

I'm not looking for a nasty back and forth with you. I'm surprised because I've always thought that you and I have had a mutually respectful 'relationship' here on the board, unlike a few.

I respect everyone unless they give me reason not to. I have a particular reaction to those who use God's name in vain. Just me. I can tolerate most swear words, although I still think it shows lack of intelligence, but when it is against my God I don't tolerate it. If  you were talking to me in person and did that too many times I would just walk away. And yes,, I loose respect for that person. If I tell you that it offends me and you still do it then you don't have respect for me either. I come here for the intellectual discussion and the love of Valk's. Using word's like for Christ's sake is the same to me.
If I grew up around people that were theives,, would I then just steal most of my life, ,or would I become a responsible adult and realize that I  need to change.
You carry on and do what you want, but I have stated my position.
If your God allows you to do anything you want,, then you are your God.

Noted, Wizzard. I wasn't aware of your faith, and will limit my off-color remarks to basic wisea$$ with you....

[baldo]

Well i would explain it to you Baldo,, but you not only would not understand,, you wouldn't care anyhow. when someone gets too abrasive to me I just walk away, so that's what I will do here. I am sure I am not the only one.

That's the type of response I would not expect from you. Take a shot, you never know, I might surprise you. And what's with the sensitivity lately? As nasty and obnoxious more than a few members are here on this board, and you have a problem with a few low-grade curses? Seriously, i'm shocked.

Let me ask you. How many other posters here have you admonished for 'vulgarity'?

I'm not looking for a nasty back and forth with you. I'm surprised because I've always thought that you and I have had a mutually respectful 'relationship' here on the board, unlike a few.

http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,757.0.html

I suggest that you specifically read rule #4


Personally I see very little profanity here.

I see a good bit of things where it's clear what the implied word is, but it isn't actually used.

Maybe, it's just having grown up in the south but around here GD is at the top of the list of bad words.

It is the one that got you slapped across the face by mom or dad.

I'm over 50 yrs old and I still won't let that one slip around my mother.


One of the things about this forum is the civility.

Yes, things get out of hand sometimes but not nearly as out of hand as Facebook and others.

It is a good policy not to say anything to anyone here that you wouldn't say to their face.

Not just becuse it's one of the rules, because it's a good practice.

It's that do unto others thing.

You are definately guilty of pushing the envelope when it comes to that one.

I have ready many exchanges between you and other members that most likely would've led to a fist fight had they happened face to face.



Ask yourself, Is that really the reputation that you desire to have here?


I know that you have participated in events and rides in person.

I don't know for sure but, I'm betting that you conducted yourself differently then.


It is possible to disagree without being disagreable.

It is somewhat of a challenge, but you can be up to the task.
 

All good points. I really do try. But it's sometimes not easy being a lone voice in the woods around here....


quote: "Ask yourself, Is that really the reputation that you desire to have here?"

Some may say that it's already there. Not the one that I want, but you'll never see me afraid to voice my opinion. It'll be there whether you want it or not....

[Wizzard]

Well i would explain it to you Baldo,, but you not only would not understand,, you wouldn't care anyhow. when someone gets too abrasive to me I just walk away, so that's what I will do here. I am sure I am not the only one.

That's the type of response I would not expect from you. Take a shot, you never know, I might surprise you. And what's with the sensitivity lately? As nasty and obnoxious more than a few members are here on this board, and you have a problem with a few low-grade curses? Seriously, i'm shocked.

Let me ask you. How many other posters here have you admonished for 'vulgarity'?

I'm not looking for a nasty back and forth with you. I'm surprised because I've always thought that you and I have had a mutually respectful 'relationship' here on the board, unlike a few.

I respect everyone unless they give me reason not to. I have a particular reaction to those who use God's name in vain. Just me. I can tolerate most swear words, although I still think it shows lack of intelligence, but when it is against my God I don't tolerate it. If  you were talking to me in person and did that too many times I would just walk away. And yes,, I loose respect for that person. If I tell you that it offends me and you still do it then you don't have respect for me either. I come here for the intellectual discussion and the love of Valk's. Using word's like for Christ's sake is the same to me.
If I grew up around people that were theives,, would I then just steal most of my life, ,or would I become a responsible adult and realize that I  need to change.
You carry on and do what you want, but I have stated my position.
If your God allows you to do anything you want,, then you are your God.

Noted, Wizzard. I wasn't aware of your faith, and will limit my off-color remarks to basic wisea$$ with you....

Thanks,, and understand,, I do not dislike you. Just what you said,, that's all. I don't push my faith on you or anyone else unless they ask me. There really is not much swearing here though 

[..]

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/obamacare-affordable-care-act-rising-premiums-insurers-pull-out-of-market/

[cookiedough]

just vote for Trump soon and Obummercare will be gone for good.   

If affects all costing us ALL TONS more money for the benefit of a few...   

[Firefighter]

Hey, My health insurance just went up from 644.76 a month to 719.91 a month!!  Spouse and I .

[Patrick]

Just listen to billy clinton. A week ago he was dissing o'care and now saying it would not have passed if it weren't for him and that he was always for it.  Husband and wife both speak with forked tongue.

[f6john]

         "https://www.youtube.com/embed/ETVcsPRTSHM"



     Enough said. And they knew it would be this way before it was ever passed.

[Robert]

I think the saddest thing about O care is us.

 It was made to endorse socialism, called a fraud and deception by those who made it perpetrated in deception. Called and ruled a tax by the courts, costs each family thousands, will not insure those making no money, some cant afford it and they are penalized on top of not being insured. Has nearly bankrupt some health companies, our Congress allows it and even after all this the thing is still here. It was designed to help a very select group of people and that it does while leaving the majority out in the cold without health insurance and taxing them for it. Obama boasts the government looks better since the tax penalty collected on this supports more spending. Helps big business and penalizes small business.

We have lost not only the government but our backbone our moral compass, this is a prime example everyday of that fact and we on this board are still just talking about it.

If you commit a crime and aid or know about it you are thrown in jail, yet this crime hoist on the American people made and passed by many in Congress and no one goes to jail.

I hear the bleating of sheep.

Remember this?

This bill was written in a tortured way to make sure CBO did not score the mandate as taxes. If CBO scored the mandate as taxes, the bill dies. Okay, so it’s written to do that.  In terms of risk rated subsidies, if . . . you made explicit healthy people pay in and sick people get money—it would not have passed. . . . Lack of transparency is a huge political advantage. And basically, call it the stupidity of the American voter or whatever, but basically that was really, really critical for the thing to pass. . . . Look, I wish Mark was right that we could make it all transparent, but I’d rather have this law than not.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G790p0LcgbI

[Jersey mike]

It seems Mark Cuban thinks it's the best thing, it just needs time to work out the bugs.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/mark-cuban-obamacare-worlds-biggest-171528977.html;_ylt=AwrBT4XeRhtYvsEA4EvBGOd_;_ylu=X3oDMTE0cHNvcGlpBGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwMyBHZ0aWQDVUkwMVRDMV8xBHNlYwNzcg--

[Wizzard]

It seems Mark Cuban thinks it's the best thing, it just needs time to work out the bugs.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/mark-cuban-obamacare-worlds-biggest-171528977.html;_ylt=AwrBT4XeRhtYvsEA4EvBGOd_;_ylu=X3oDMTE0cHNvcGlpBGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwMyBHZ0aWQDVUkwMVRDMV8xBHNlYwNzcg--

Yeah and Mark Cuban thinks the world of Mark Cuban.

And yet another may pull out http://www.cnbc.com/2016/11/02/critical-obamacare-year-for-anthem-as-insurer-warns-it-may-modify-strategy.html

[G-Man]

Hey, My health insurance just went up from 644.76 a month to 719.91 a month!!  Spouse and I .

That would be the monthly payment on an E-class, or a 7-series.

And your premium is cheap from what I've been seeing. 

There was a FB post showing a letter where someone's premium went from $700+ to $1800+.  Took it at face value until the guy and his family appeared on TV.  He said he had a hard time coming up with the $700 every month and that $1800 is impossible.  $21,600 a year!  And that's before deductibles and co-pays which on average is another $6,000.

Someone above said all this to help a few.  We can't even get a straight number on that.  When Obama was selling (lying) this, he kept lamenting about the 30 million uninsured.  When Bernie was running, he kept yelling about the 29 million uninsured.  All this garbage to help a million?  And Hillary wants to extend this to the illegal immigrants, maybe 10 - 15 million more (illegal immigration is another number we can't get the truth on). 

BTW, Gruber came up with a solution to those not signing up............ make the fines higher.

[..]

Keep plan
Keep Dr
Save $2500 A YEAR!
Pass it to read it.

The voters of America twice stood slack jawed whilst the foul man in our White House spewed his lies and sucked the spew up as if it was manna from heaven.

The voters of America sucked up his "fundamentally transform America" without using their brains to understand what those few words meant.

[Wizzard]

yeah,, because you "have to elect him, to find out"  so to speak.  

That's the problem electing someone who has no experience or track record. He had nothing.

[..]

yeah,, because you "have to elect him, to find out"  so to speak.  

That's the problem electing someone who has no experience or track record. He had nothing.

Sounds like the Donald!

Not a fan of him but detest hilliary.

[Robert]

Obama care was signed into law in 2010 and Obama has had 6 years to modify it, strange they were super speed in approving it why has no one changed it to make it more acceptable to all?

[baldo]

Obama care was signed into law in 2010 and Obama has had 6 years to modify it, strange they were super speed in approving it why has no one changed it to make it more acceptable to all?

Ummmmm, if I had to guess...I'd have to say an obstructionist Republican Congress.

Oh yeah, he had a 'majority' for all of about 7 months. I forgot.

[Jersey mike]

Obama care was signed into law in 2010 and Obama has had 6 years to modify it, strange they were super speed in approving it why has no one changed it to make it more acceptable to all?

Ummmmm, if I had to guess...I'd have to say an obstructionist Republican Congress.

Checks and balances

[NewValker]

If the Republicans are so obstructionist, why did it pass in the first place????
Craig

[baldo]

If the Republicans are so obstructionist, why did it pass in the first place????
Craig

60 votes.....

[fudgie]

At least mine is still going down. Next yr I'll only pay $100 a month. 

[Gavin_Sons]

At least mine is still going down. Next yr I'll only pay $100 a month. 

Just found out mine went from 350 a month to 585 a month. My employer pays 100% of mine though, wife carries family for her and the kids.

[NewValker]

60 votes.....

or maybe 60 lies??