Panhandling

[Rams]

The issue of Panhandling (begging) is currently being presented to the Kentucky Supreme Court. Several cities in KY and other states (although other state laws obviously aren't being considered in this case) have laws regulating or outlawing the practice. According to the morning news, SCOTUS has said Panhandling is a legal form of free speech. The different opposing communities are arguing that it's a danger to the public and are standing their ground.

While I agree it's a form of free speech, I can also see the nuisance and safety issues. There have been incidences, wrecks and injuries due to someone standing on a corner or in the center medium of a road/intersection begging for money/food/work.  I've witnessed panhandlers who refused to get out of traffic when they posed a safety hazard to traffic trying to get through the intersection.   

That being said: I really don't see any difference between the panhandlers and kids/organizations who hold car washes as some project, the annual Red Cross Bell Ringers, or the local drives by our own fire department where they actually stand at major intersections holding fireman boots out asking for those passing by to donate to some cause. If, one is illegal, why aren't the others.

Any opinions out there?

[dreamaker]

First off, if people where totally honest with it, it really wouldn’t concern me, but of course the scammers are out there.  Like yourself I had an incident with person panhandling, I did think it was kosher and I didn’t donate and the person kicks the side of my truck. If I wouldn’t have been in major traffic, one of us would have had a bad day. I recently donated to a wounded veterans fund and the person running it embezzled the cash that was on TV.  So what do you think! When there is cash, there are scams.   If you watch TV, you will notice fundraising is like BIG Business now!! Anyways it is hard enough negotiating what drivers are going to do, now you put people popping out in traffic in the mix, it is a recipe for disaster. Second, learn the difference between a Fundraising Company and a sincere Charity, Big, Big difference.  But in the end it is a hard call!!

[cookiedough]

I worked a few years full time at a major national non-profit organization who helps families in disaster out.  It did not sit too well with me when a disgruntled older employee received a 10K check from the organization basically as hush money and a buyout to get rid of her.  That money I had to cut a check for which I really questioned but got no answer from the CFO (told me to just do it is all) did not set too well with me since that money came from donors giving us 5-20 dollar checks mostly.  The next week, she was gone.

As far as panhandling goes,  it has become a slight issue in Madison WI where although I have not had an issue with any,  I can see where traffic issues will be a concern.  The local police and all that post just say to NOT give them any money since most use it to buy cigarettes or alcohol or worse even drugs.

I say charity begins at home and family first. 

[da prez]

  Nashville had a problem with "bridge people". Going by memory , they did a round up and counted the money they carried. Many had counts in the thousands. Most were veterans and this was an easy income. I am not picking on veterans ( I am one). The crime rate among the people was high as others knew they were usually easy pickings.
  We have out favorite charities and donate regularly. I was coming out of a store and said "no thank you to a cookie seller". The father (?) approached me and asked if I was to good to donate. (personally , I do not eat sweets and it was none of his business) You are showing them a good example of nothing but being a bully. It is none of your business whom  I donate to. Get out of my face. I deliberately turned my back to him , stood for a second , and then walked away. Several people witnessed this and also did not donate.

                                      da prez

[Moonshot_1]

Panhandling. Should consider it a business venture. They should be licensed and taxed. They are using public roads and by-ways to conduct their business. They should be zoned so they are in a safe and secure place, out of busy traffic areas.

[Jess from VA]

Standing (sitting or laying) in a lawful place while doing so is probably OK (but see Loitering). Standing out in the road and washing windows against peoples wishes is not OK.

Our Fire Departments do it once or twice a year, and they are absolutely out in the streets.  They are the only ones I always give money.  I give a $20 at the first intersection, then feel guilty at the next 10 intersections.

I wish the Free crap Army was all panhandlers and not given my money by the billion as a matter of law by the G.  Of course, this pays much better than panhandling. 

[Patrick]

Standing (sitting or laying) in a lawful place while doing so is probably OK (but see Loitering). Standing out in the road and washing windows against peoples wishes is not OK.

Our Fire Departments do it once or twice a year, and they are absolutely out in the streets.  They are the only ones I always give money.  I give a $20 at the first intersection, then feel guilty at the next 10 intersections.

I wish the Free crap Army was all panhandlers and not given my money by the billion as a matter of law by the G.  Of course, this pays much better than panhandling. 

A buck at each intersection and you're money ahead.   

[Gryphon Rider]

Panhandling by anyone (including firemen and squeegee kids) who approaches drivers on a public roadway should be prohibited and strictly enforced.  It's a safety issue; drivers might be startled when composing a message, and might hit "send" before they were finished or had time to reconsider an imprudent missive.  Panhandling that involves stepping out in front of someone to impede their travel should also be prohibited and enforced, as it is a potential threat to the personal safety of pedestrians.  Standing to the side with both hands in view, fine.

The difference between panhandlers and organizations asking for money is the degree of potential personal danger the asker presents.

I was coming out of a store and said "no thank you to a cookie seller". The father (?) approached me and asked if I was too good to donate.

In that case, I would tell my story to the manager of the store, who probably wouldn't appreciate the way that the charity was treating his customers.  I can't recall receiving a rude response from an asker at the entrance to a store when I don't donate or buy their cookies.  Meathead will probably point out that it's because I'm in Canada.

Panhandling. Should consider it a business venture. They should be licensed and taxed. They are using public roads and by-ways to conduct their business. They should be zoned so they are in a safe and secure place, out of busy traffic areas.

And the panhandlers should issue tax receipts to donators, and be subject to random audits to ensure they aren't using their donations to buy non-essentials like booze and cigarettes.

Yes, people are panhandlers because they are simply in between legitimate jobs, and are happy to submit to rules and regulations.

[The emperor has no clothes]

I can't recall receiving a rude response from an asker at the entrance to a store when I don't donate or buy their cookies.  Meathead will probably point out that it's because I'm in Canada.

Actually I can't remember it ever happening to me either here in America. 

[old2soon]

Here in my little slice of heaven-Southern Missouri-now I'm talking panhandlers as you might be apt to encounter as beggars. Quite a few in Springfield Mo. a few in West Plains Mo. but honestly have NOT seen one here in Willow Springs Mo. Now Fire Dept. Boy Scouts Girl Scouts-yup-we got em! The Nice thing though is there is but one Major 4-way stop here in Willow Springs Mo. and that's WHERE they setup. The people that are authorized to do collections here usually have it posted in the Newspaper on flyers and announced on the local radio station a week or two in advance. I have ZERO idea if panhandling is against the law here or not. RIDE SAFE.

[Jess from VA]

Standing (sitting or laying) in a lawful place while doing so is probably OK (but see Loitering). Standing out in the road and washing windows against peoples wishes is not OK.

Our Fire Departments do it once or twice a year, and they are absolutely out in the streets.  They are the only ones I always give money.  I give a $20 at the first intersection, then feel guilty at the next 10 intersections.

I wish the Free crap Army was all panhandlers and not given my money by the billion as a matter of law by the G.  Of course, this pays much better than panhandling.  

A buck at each intersection and you're money ahead.  

Of course you're right, but I'm always on my bikes, and the problem is getting the gloves off the wallet/money out and back in and gloves back on, and being ready to leave at the light change.


At least with the Poppy Folks, you put it on your rear view (or side) mirror, and then point to it at the next panhandler station.

[The emperor has no clothes]

I know this isn't going to go over well with most here. But I found it amusing. The panhandlers around NYC were pretty clever. One that I got a chuckle out of was a sign that said, "Give me a dollar or I'm voting for Trump"

[Wizzard]

A friend of mine keeps a supply of McDonalds gift certificates on hand for those who state "have kids and need food" .  Keeps them somewhat honest as some just take the cash and run.

[The emperor has no clothes]

A friend of mine keeps a supply of McDonalds gift certificates on hand for those who state "have kids and need food" .  Keeps them somewhat honest as some just take the cash and run.

My wife thinks I am a heartless bastard. And I probably am. But I have only given panhandlers money a couple times in my life. I just can't reward that.

[baldo]

I know this isn't going to go over well with most here. But I found it amusing. The panhandlers around NYC were pretty clever. One that I got a chuckle out of was a sign that said, "Give me a dollar or I'm voting for Trump"

I'd have given him a tenspot !.........I know, dems are buying votes.....

[old2soon]

I drove 18 wheeler to earn my living. Most-Not All truck stops have a church directory posted on a wall usually near an entrance. When I was approached for money I told the panhandler-lets go inside and look at the Church directory cuz I KNOW they will be willing to help.  In all my years out there I got One and ONLY one family to call a Church for help. If they needed gas I asked them to bring the car around and I'd put some gas in their tank. Offer of gas ran about one in seven. Soooooooooo under the Best of circumstances color me skeptical!  RIDE SAFE.

[Gryphon Rider]

I drove 18 wheeler to earn my living. Most-Not All truck stops have a church directory posted on a wall usually near an entrance. When I was approached for money I told the panhandler-lets go inside and look at the Church directory cuz I KNOW they will be willing to help.  In all my years out there I got One and ONLY one family to call a Church for help. If they needed gas I asked them to bring the car around and I'd put some gas in their tank. Offer of gas ran about one in seven. Soooooooooo under the Best of circumstances color me skeptical!  RIDE SAFE.

My church's name starts with Ab___, so my wife, our administrator, gets to answer a lot of requests for money and other help in our city. Most of the time she gives them contact information for agencies that specialize in their given situation. We help many for the size of our congregation, but also have to turn down many more.

[msb]

Best one I saw was a couple of years go on a rare  visit to the city... old guy with a tin can tied from his neck with a sign that read "I'm not going good to lie,  I want to buy beer".....his can looked to be half full with change.
We have specific charities we have researched that we donate to every year. We also rarely turn down opportunities to contribute to local kids' sport teams or clubs  fundraisers if we have  some cash on hand. Don't give to panhandlers on a regular basis,   but every once in a while you just connect with one and you can see the genuine  need in their face or when speaking with them,  then I will give.

[Robert]

I think each municipality should decide for themselves instead of the Supreme court making the decision. They will make it harder for Police to control individuals that are jerks.

I help who I feel needs it and deserves it. I tell them I give this to you in the name of Jesus Christ the one who gave it to me. I have been blessed, as I can, and am led to, I give. I have been blessed abundantly but there are many reasons people are in bad conditions. I know a couple of men who are on the streets and that is there way of life. If you look at the people that beg in their eyes alot of time you can see the situations they are in. The very act of begging is they have given up on trying or are scammers.

I would rather give money to some who may not deserve it rather than miss helping someone who really needs it.

There is nothing like someone coming back and saying because you gave to me in the worst times in my life I was able to change my life. Hope, that you could give is worth much more than the scammers that are out there.

I would also say that fund raising is different than begging, you actually can see a need that needs money.

Think about it are these people scamming from the government like those on welfare or so many other ways to scam the government. They more than likely would not be out on the streets begging because begging is work. I consider this better than those who dont need it scamming the government and living off the government.

I am not in favor of those that step into the street or wash windows either, but waiting on the side of the road respectfully is ok.

[3fan4life]

I am friends with a person who runs a fairly large rescue mission.

He and I have had this conversation, his take on it is, DON'T give them money.

He says that most of them have drug and or alcohol addictions and that giving them money directly enables them to feed those addictions.

I have offered to buy food for people holding signs saying that they were hungry and have been cussed out for it.

I've offered to put gas into someone's car that said they needed money for gas. Only to be ignored as they moved on to their next mark.

It may give you a "Fuzzy" feeling to drop a buck or two into someone's cup but in the long run it doesn't help them much and may even be detrimental to them.

Instead, donate to your local homeless shelter so that they can provide food, clothing and shelter from the cold for those who need it.

Many of these shelters also provide for homeless families and battered women that aren't out there holding signs.

Many of these places also offer counseling and rehab for those who want to beat their addictions.  

[Pappy!]

I used to have to do the Miami Boat show every year. 25 years in a row to be exact. In the mornings while travelling from the Marriott over to Miami Beach the panhandlers would catch you at a stop light and have signs asking for money.
As the years progressed this morphed into them knocking on your window and asking. They would offer to clean your windshield for a buck or so.
The last few years if you were stopped at these lights they would come up and spit on your windshield and ask if you wanted it cleaned off !!
That went beyond any free speech I know of.

[Robert]

Before I give someone money I ask so whats your story and how did you get here? I have had some very interesting conversations and it has allowed me to speak into a few of their lives. I have told some outright, I work hard for my money and do not give it away to bad causes or waste it. I sow it to good ground that will produce not throw it away.

 I am not afraid to ask how long you been on drugs or drinking and ask why dont you stop throwing your life away. Some have come back some I never see again but I never allow them to go without speaking to them. I feel if you are just going to throw money at them then you might as well throw it away. I also have asked to get some food and they have refused about 50 percent of the time.

I watched one lady asked for food in a coffee shop and some would buy her food and she sat there and put it in her bag then continued to ask saving it for later.

I had a guy work for me and didn't realize why he never had money and would always ask for money to buy lunch. One day I found out why, all it took was 20.00 and he could buy a pill or whatever to get him by. I kind of felt stupid that in my caring, being taken. I didn't pry and look further to see how bad the problem was and when I did he would hide it, a 21 year old good kid. Some day they all come to grips with their condition, its inevitable. One way or another the half way houses have grim statistics on the ones hooked on drugs. This kids brother died and his parents made him move with them to another state. He still is a good kid, still is bumping along, and I dont know if he broke the habit.  I only know when hes really down he calls me and we talk and he has some strength and someone who has never lied or meant him harm in his life. For that I am grateful because he bought another day to maybe make something of himself. Such a wonderful kid, full of promise and gifts like so many we see. So when I see these people on the streets, it could be anyone of us that life overwhelmed and took the easy way out. I would pick up a 20.00 dollar bill on the street so its worth a few minutes of my time to speak to those who throw life away.

I had a woman that was married and now single say that sex was ok with the men she was with. She told me God wants us to love them that its Godly. She was a good looking woman and had some money but equated sex with love. But how is her ideas any different than a druggies ideas? I see alot of broken lives that effect everyone around them, I would say all have problems so what do we do cut these people off who are lost? That is why the church needs a better answer than what it is doing now. Even Jesus stayed with sinners and did not ridicule them but said its the sick that need the dr not the well. Our society is grossly sick with many diseases. I look at the Pharisees looking at the outward and seeing Jesus they did not know who He was. But the sick ones knew and saw Him as the Son of God and came to Him to be healed. When these people look at you who do they see?

I know in this day and age its easy to be critical but look at who you have in front of you as your kid and what would you say to them before you hand them that money. Make them listen to what you say, sometimes its hard, but maybe that is exactly what they need to hear. I told the lady she was prostituting herself mistakenly thinking it was love and not lust and she would not have a truly loving committed relationship based on her ideas. She was a bit upset but I told her the truth, maybe we need to tell the truth more often when its on your heart standing in front of someone asking for money.

Think of it as a seed, that each word has power, each is a seed that may take root and grow. If many plant seeds and there is enough maybe they will stop and think of what life has become and change or cry out to be healed and walk upright.

We will always have them with us, even Jesus said so and for that its some peoples lot in life. But look at the promise, look at the abilities, look at them as someones child and know something has gone terribly wrong. Sometimes its not money they need but a word, not delivered in hate but in what the heck are you doing living like this? If they dont want to hear then so be it but at least for a moment they had someone look at them and into them and care.

I have seen some powerful, wealthy men loose it all and you would not know them and watch them live like babies and I wonder to myself how much does circumstance and attitude play in peoples lives.

[Willow]

If impeding traffic is an issue or verbal assault is an issue those issues are addressable by existing laws.  Panhandling is not an issue except to folks who just don't want to see panhandling.

For those few of you who intend to follow the teachings of Jesus He said, "Give to him who asks of you, and do not turn away from him who wants to borrow from you."  It's pretty tough to deal with that while demanding to know why someone is begging.    

[Robert]

I dont know if you meant me Willow but I will answer for myself since I seem to be quoting Jesus.

I do not demand so much as question. Its how I know to open a conversation and if I want to give to a person. I find it alot easier to tell when they open their mouths to speak what is the problem. You can give money but that doesn't make you care, looking at the person and speaking to them with interest and questions shows you care. I know many parents who give their kids many things, but this is not giving their time and attention like they need and want.

I think this is more of the intent of the verse you quoted.


1Jn 3:17  If someone has enough money to live well and sees a brother or sister in need but shows no compassion—how can God's love be in that person?

Psa 37:25  Once I was young, and now I am old. Yet I have never seen the godly abandoned or their children begging for bread.

2Th 3:10  Even while we were with you, we gave you this command: "Those unwilling to work will not get to eat."

Th 3:11  Yet we hear that some of you are living idle lives, refusing to work and meddling in other people's business.
2Th 3:12  We command such people and urge them in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ to settle down and work to earn their own living

Act 5:4  The property was yours to sell or not sell, as you wished. And after selling it, the money was also yours to give away. How could you do a thing like this? You weren't lying to us but to God!"

Matthew 12:48-50
But he replied to the man who told him, “Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?” And stretching out his hand toward his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers! For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.”

[Rams]

Well, as I understand it, the court has determined that "cities" do not have the authority to make panhandling illegal, the court said that only the state has that authority.   

I don't agree with that.   Cities have always been allowed to develop and institute city ordinances.   We'll see where this goes.

[Hooter]

Cities here have passed ordinances against panhandling.  Local jurisdiction may do that in this neck of the woods.