Jury acquits leaders of Oregon standoff of federal charges

[Rams]

Jury acquits leaders of Oregon standoff of federal charges
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/10/27/jury-acquits-all-defendants-in-oregon-wildlife-refuge-standoff.html

PORTLAND, Ore. –  The leaders of an armed group who seized a national wildlife refuge in rural Oregon were acquitted Thursday in the 41-day standoff that brought new attention to a long-running dispute over control of federal lands in the U.S. West.

A jury found brothers Ammon and Ryan Bundy not guilty of possessing a firearm in a federal facility and conspiring to impede federal workers from their jobs at the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge, 300 miles southeast of Portland where the trial took place. Five co-defendants also were tried one or both of the charges.

Despite the acquittal, the Bundys were expected to stand trial in Nevada early next year on charges stemming from another high-profile standoff with federal agents. Authorities rounding up cattle at their father Cliven Bundy's ranch in 2014 because of unpaid grazing fees released the animals as they faced armed protesters.

The brothers are part of a Nevada ranching family embroiled in a lengthy fight over the use of public range, and their occupation drew an international spotlight to a uniquely American West dispute: federal restrictions on ranching, mining and logging to protect the environment. The U.S. government, which controls much of the land in the West, says it tries to balance industry, recreation and wildlife concerns to benefit all.

The armed occupiers were allowed to come and go for several weeks as authorities tried to avoid bloodshed seen in past standoffs.  The confrontations reignited clashes dating to the so-called Sagebrush Rebellion of the late 1970s, when Western states such as Nevada tried to win more control of vast federal land holdings.

The group began occupying the bird sanctuary in remote southeastern Oregon on Jan. 2. They objected to prison sentences handed down to Dwight and Steven Hammond, two local ranchers convicted of setting fires. They demanded the government free the father and son and relinquish control of public lands to local officials.

Ammon Bundy gave frequent news conferences and the group used social media in a mostly unsuccessful effort to get others to join them.  The Bundys and other key figures were arrested in a Jan. 26 traffic stop outside the refuge that ended with police fatally shooting Robert "LaVoy" Finicum, an occupation spokesman. Most occupiers left after his death, but four holdouts remained until Feb. 11, when they surrendered after a lengthy negotiation.

At trial, the case was seemingly open-and-shut. There was no dispute the group seized the refuge, established armed patrols and vetted those who visited.

"Ladies and gentlemen, this case is not a whodunit," Assistant U.S. Attorney Ethan Knight said in his closing argument, arguing that the group decided to take over a federal workplace that didn't belong to them.

On technical grounds, the defendants said they never discussed stopping individual workers from accessing their offices but merely wanted the land and the buildings. On emotional grounds, Ammon Bundy and other defendants argued that the takeover was an act of civil disobedience against an out-of-control federal government that has crippled the rural West.

Federal prosecutors took two weeks to present their case, finishing with a display of more than 30 guns seized after the standoff. An FBI agent testified that 16,636 live rounds and nearly 1,700 spent casings were found.

Bundy testified in his defense, spending three days amplifying his belief that government overreach is destroying Western communities that rely on the land. He said the plan was to take ownership of the refuge by occupying it for a period of time and then turn it over to local officials to use as they saw fit.  Bundy also testified that the occupiers carried guns because they would have been arrested immediately otherwise and to protect themselves against possible government attack.

Interesting verdict.....   Frankly, I'm surprised at the verdict but, I willingly admit, I didn't see the trial and have no knowledge other than what appears in the article above and what I remember from previous news coverage.    I wonder if this is a reflection of attitude toward the government in general.   It only takes one match to start a very large fire.

[old2soon]

This is the SAME gubmint that sez 15% ethanol fuel won't harm our new or older vehicles.    RIDE SAFE.

[Jess from VA]

Thank the jury.   

And how much of our money do you suppose the prosecution spent?

Some lawyers you have to like.

Tumult erupted in the courtroom after the verdicts were read when an attorney for group leader Ammon Bundy demanded his client be immediately released, repeatedly yelling at the judge. U.S. marshals tackled attorney Marcus Mumford to the ground, used a stun gun on him several times and arrested him.

[MP]

Thank the jury.   

And how much of our money do you suppose the prosecution spent?

Some lawyers you have to like.

Tumult erupted in the courtroom after the verdicts were read when an attorney for group leader Ammon Bundy demanded his client be immediately released, repeatedly yelling at the judge. U.S. marshals tackled attorney Marcus Mumford to the ground, used a stun gun on him several times and arrested him.

I think the feds are really Po'd!

[RDAbull]

Thank the jury.   

And how much of our money do you suppose the prosecution spent?

Some lawyers you have to like.

Tumult erupted in the courtroom after the verdicts were read when an attorney for group leader Ammon Bundy demanded his client be immediately released, repeatedly yelling at the judge. U.S. marshals tackled attorney Marcus Mumford to the ground, used a stun gun on him several times and arrested him.

I think the feds are really Po'd!

GOOD!

[Robert]

Thank the jury.   

And how much of our money do you suppose the prosecution spent?

Some lawyers you have to like.

Tumult erupted in the courtroom after the verdicts were read when an attorney for group leader Ammon Bundy demanded his client be immediately released, repeatedly yelling at the judge. U.S. marshals tackled attorney Marcus Mumford to the ground, used a stun gun on him several times and arrested him.

Yes indeed thank the Jury

Nice to see our checks and balances finally working and real citizens standing up for what is right.

I cannot believe they used a stun gun on the attorney, what a bunch of idiots and I hope they will answer for that also.

Score one for the average Joe against government intrusion.

[old2soon]

Could we be FINALLY seeing-a Government OF the People BY the People?  Wouldn't THAT be Nice?  RIDE SAFE.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Jury's make mistakes all the time. Seems to be another prime example.

[RDAbull]

Jury's make mistakes all the time. Seems to be another prime example.

Or maybe the government makes mistakes all the time and the jurist system corrects those mistakes occasionally.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Jury's make mistakes all the time. Seems to be another prime example.

Or maybe the government makes mistakes all the time and the jurist system corrects those mistakes occasionally.

Probably a little of both. 

[0leman]

hey guys these folks occupied a government installation for long period, some 41 days,  threatening anyone who came by.  They were armed to the teeth.  And left a mess at the refuge.

The original occupation was suppose to be showing support to a local rancher who had set fires on his property which burn a good portion of range land belonging to the public, ie federal lands (yours and mine).  These rancher were sentenced to time in the big house.   These ranchers told  the occupiers to go home and stop their actions.   

Bundy is just a anti government person who believes the federal lands he uses don't belong to the Fed Gov.  He and his father owe over a Million $$'s to the fed for grazing fees.   He will be facing chargers for a armed conflict over the grazing fees.   Should be interesting.

By the way the Jury was made up of Liberal folks in Portland, not us normal folks on the East side of state.   Not sure why the Attorney went off on the judge, but he shouldn't have.  Except he wanted his client release NOW.   Judge said no, as he was facing Fed charges in Nevada.   Marshall were just doing their job, maybe should have shot him.   

[Serk]

There are four boxes to be used in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury and ammo. Please use in that order.

We've now moved to box #3.

Let's hope it doesn't need to move to box #4.

[Robert]

People in Congress had their own special reasons that cattle should not be allowed to graze on the land.

[The emperor has no clothes]

There are four boxes to be used in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury and ammo. Please use in that order.

We've now moved to box #3.

Let's hope it doesn't need to move to box #4.

Please explain how these guys were defending liberty ?

[0leman]

If one checks the facts this refuge was given to the Fed by private landowner to make a bird/wildlife refuge.  It was taken by Feds. 

Bundy and friends actually cut the fences of a private landowner along side the refuge.  Landowner was slightly pi$$ed about that action.  had to fix his fence.

They had better places to take than that, but chose poorly. 

[Jess from VA]

I'm curious what part of the constitution authorizes this?





Federal prosecutors took two weeks to present their case, finishing with a display of more than 30 guns seized after the standoff.   And the jury acquitted.  Bully!!

[Black Pearl's Captain]

More concern than who owns the land is who controls the land. Huge parts of the western lands are leased to all kinds of "business". As you can see a lot of New Mexico is federal land but I know a large part of it is used to raise cattle, farmed and mined for minerals and such. Ski area's all over are government lands that are leased to operators for example. Oregon is 53% US owned, go out there and try to camp on any of this federal land. Not many places it's allowed.

I thought this occupation was a bit out there myself at first until I did a lot of reading and learned why these protests keep happening. If you haven't studied this yourself you should. Not all is as it appears at first.

I would have set them free too if I was on the jury.

[Skinhead]

More concern than who owns the land is who controls the land. Huge parts of the western lands are leased to all kinds of "business". As you can see a lot of New Mexico is federal land but I know a large part of it is used to raise cattle, farmed and mined for minerals and such. Ski area's all over are government lands that are leased to operators for example. Oregon is 53% US owned, go out there and try to camp on any of this federal land. Not many places it's allowed.

I thought this occupation was a bit out there myself at first until I did a lot of reading and learned why these protests keep happening. If you haven't studied this yourself you should. Not all is as it appears at first.

I would have set them free too if I was on the jury.

+1.

I for one, need to do more research on this.   Unless of course the S.I.A. (Serk Intelligence Agency) already has that covered.

[Rams]

Jury's make mistakes all the time. Seems to be another prime example.

Do you know something we don't?   Just curious.   I wasn't there and have not found anything to prove the jury was wrong.    Surprised I am, based on what I'd read previously from our (unbiased) media but, I didn't see the evidence they saw, I didn't hear the testimony they heard.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Jury's make mistakes all the time. Seems to be another prime example.

Do you know something we don't?   Just curious.   I wasn't there and have not found anything to prove the jury was wrong.    Surprised I am, based on what I'd read previously from our (unbiased) media but, I didn't see the evidence they saw, I didn't hear the testimony they heard.

Nope, just what was reported about it in the news.

[Rams]

Jury's make mistakes all the time. Seems to be another prime example.

Do you know something we don't?   Just curious.   I wasn't there and have not found anything to prove the jury was wrong.    Surprised I am, based on what I'd read previously from our (unbiased) media but, I didn't see the evidence they saw, I didn't hear the testimony they heard.

Nope, just what was reported about it in the news.

So, how was this jury mistaken?   Curious as to why you see it that way.   I'll admit I was surprised but, that's based on the information our "unbiased" media provided.   Other than what they fed us, I can't say the jury was wrong.   I didn't see any testimony or evidence.

[Bighead]

Where's the popcorn

[The emperor has no clothes]

Jury's make mistakes all the time. Seems to be another prime example.

Do you know something we don't?   Just curious.   I wasn't there and have not found anything to prove the jury was wrong.    Surprised I am, based on what I'd read previously from our (unbiased) media but, I didn't see the evidence they saw, I didn't hear the testimony they heard.

Nope, just what was reported about it in the news.

So, how was this jury mistaken?   Curious as to why you see it that way.   I'll admit I was surprised but, that's based on the information our "unbiased" media provided.   Other than what they fed us, I can't say the jury was wrong.   I didn't see any testimony or evidence.

These people went to a completely different state where they had no use for the land, no reason to be there at all except for creating the spectacle that they wanted. They took over the area and kept the workers out. The actual local people there had a good relationship with the federal managers.
Like it or not, and most of the time I don't like it. But when most of the western area of the country became states the federal government claimed much of the land. There are legal ways to change ownership to the states. These guys had no desire to do that. They were out for publicity. So yes, in my opinion they conspired to break the law and should have been convicted of it. Our judicial system isn't perfect. I can live with that and this decision. That doesn't make what they did right though.

[Rams]

They took over the area and kept the workers out.

Not the case according to the testimony I read.   They didn't stop a single person from reporting to work or doing their job.   Nor did they try to mess with the employees there.   They simply occupied the place.

[The emperor has no clothes]

They took over the area and kept the workers out.

Not the case according to the testimony I read.   They didn't stop a single person from reporting to work or doing their job.   Nor did they try to mess with the employees there.   They simply occupied the place.

yes, they didn't assault the workers . But by taking the place over they kept them from doing their job. You haul vehicles and stuff around the country on occasion . If 20 people sat in you truck, didn't assault you but kept you from being able to do your work. Would you not feel they conspired to stop you from making a living ?

[Rams]

They took over the area and kept the workers out.

Not the case according to the testimony I read.   They didn't stop a single person from reporting to work or doing their job.   Nor did they try to mess with the employees there.   They simply occupied the place.

yes, they didn't assault the workers . But by taking the place over they kept them from doing their job. You haul vehicles and stuff around the country on occasion . If 20 people sat in you truck, didn't assault you but kept you from being able to do your work. Would you not feel they conspired to stop you from making a living ?

All I can say is, if they were simply present and didn't keep me from doing my job, they better be ready to take a ride and I'm not bringing them back.   

[Robert]

Until now I have never seen anyone who is the antithesis of any idea on this board.

[0leman]

Do some research on the Western lands.  The land was purchased by the Federal Gov.  Yeah we all own the land.   the states never took control of these, nor did they try to purchased the lands when they became a State.  All the lands were open to settlement by individuals, Homesteading, until somewhere around the 1950's (don't quote me on this date as I didn't look it up just now).   At that time the homesteading was over.  Lot of the lands in the West couldn't support a family, not enough water mostly to blame.   

There has been a movement, sagebrush rebellion, in the last 50-60 to have these lands turned over to the state/local folks.  This has been to the SCOUS several times with the same result.  Land stays in Fed Gov hands.

As far as these jokers not prohibiting the Fed Employees from doing their job.  Would you walk/drive up to a bunch of idiots with AR-15, yeah they had them.   Kind of intimating.   I would have turned around and left.  They also were using the gov vehicles, drove one into town.  Plus making a mess of the area.  Power was turned off.   Not toilets.   

[Rams]

As far as these jokers not prohibiting the Fed Employees from doing their job.  Would you walk/drive up to a bunch of idiots with AR-15, yeah they had them.   Kind of intimating.   I would have turned around and left.  They also were using the gov vehicles, drove one into town.  Plus making a mess of the area.  Power was turned off.   Not toilets.    

In reference to the "idiots".   I couldn't care less what they are carrying, it's all about attitude.    As long as they aren't pointing those ARs at me and threatening me, allowing me to do my job.   They won't bother me in the least.    If they want to crawl on board, be my guest but, as I said previously, I'm not bringing them back.    I also work retail (part time), I have customers come in several times a day with open carry weapons as their personal protection (side arms), some have concealed.  

Doesn't bother me in the least.   In fact, I'm somewhat comforted by such activities, stores like the one I work at part time have been robbed several times and frequently.   We take quite a bit of cash in and don't have any other protection.    I'm not allowed to carry on the premises as an employee so, I don't mind others doing so at all.

[Serk]

So for those who think the jury got it wrong, these students should all be facing federal prison, and the officer who pepper sprayed 'em should get the Nobel Peace Prize, right?