Oil change: shop refuses to collect oil for lab analysis

[Savago]

Dear friends

I'm probably beating a dead horse here, but here it goes... Yesterday I called two shops in Sunnyvale/San Jose (CA) to ask for an oil change in my wife's car (a Hyundai Veloster).

One offered a quote of 42 bucks for labor (as I bring the oil and the filter) and the other was 50 bucks (both quotes are plus taxes).

Expensive, but I was willing to pay as I didn't have a ramp or jacks to lift the car.

The issue was: when I asked if they could collect a bit of the oil drained from the engine for lab analysis, they freaked out!

One shop said they can't waste the time to do it (WTF?) and the other said that no used oil can leave the shop ever (double WTF?). Explaining that it takes like 5s to collect the oil and that the amount is like half a coffee mug didn't help.

End of the story: I went to OReilly's and bought 2 plastic ramps (supposedly good for 16K lbs) for 40 bucks and did the job myself in 30 minutes.

Changing the oil in these Hyundai is almost as easy as doing the job in a Valkyrie (only requires to remove a plastic plate that stays in the way of the oil filter). The drain plug is a 17mm and the plastic plate is mounted using 2 screws (10mm).

Now I'm looking to receive the oil lab analysis report and will be probably doing the car's oil changes myself in the future.
:-)

[Savago]

A few photos:
https://goo.gl/photos/uNU3E9gxLSuDfhcH6

The ramps I got were:
https://www.amazon.com/RhinoGear-11912ABMI-RhinoRamps-Vehicle-Ramp/dp/B0117EESNC/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1501962340&sr=8-2&keywords=rhinoramp

I'm using 2 jack stands rated for 6000lbs (that I bought couple months ago when I replaced the shifter o-ring in my valkyrie):
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000760FX4/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

The veloster curb weight is rated between 2700lbs to 2900lbs.

[Oss]

Those Velosters are cool little cars

Im curious to know WHY you think you need an oil analysis


How much over 8000 miles were you on the oil change

Ever since a cast metal ramp collapsed while I was changing oil in my 1973 Monte Carlo I wont use them unless heavy duty stands or blockss ALSO under the frame  In fact I dont do oil changes on cars anymore since about 1990   The one ramp squashed clear flat- scared the hell out of me as I had just been under the car when that happened

[Savago]

@Oss: they look pretty cool, are fun to drive and I get 38-40mpg in the highway.
:-)

Concerning the oil analysis, the car has completed 60K miles (is a 2012 model), and I'm curious to know how is the state of the engine, as I bought this car used with 20K miles at the time (2014).

I generally do oil changes in the 5K to 8K interval, planning next oil change to try the Rotella T6 5w40 as there are good reports of people using it in these cars.

[Jess from VA]

I take in my oil and filter, and my guys do the change for $15 (no tax).  (and I give the guy who actually does the work a five).

[Savago]

@Oss: about ramp failure... man, it must have been quite scary!

I'm also not comfortable working under *any* car, but since there were no shops willing to collect the oil, I had to do the job myself.

I'm planning next to change the transmission fluid, I wonder if it is worthy to pay for it, as the job seems pretty easy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6A-OVEH03E8

[RDKLL]

I am not sure one oil analysis will yield usable results because there is no trend. We used to pull oil samples on the engines we ran on the test cell and the results were compared with previous samples. Same as in the H-53 squadron, we pulled gearbox and engine samples after every 5 hrs of flight time, again they were compared to previous samples to detect a trend of bad things to happen.
 

[scooperhsd]

@Oss: they look pretty cool, are fun to drive and I get 38-40mpg in the highway.
:-)

Concerning the oil analysis, the car has completed 60K miles (is a 2012 model), and I'm curious to know how is the state of the engine, as I bought this car used with 20K miles at the time (2014).

I generally do oil changes in the 5K to 8K interval, planning next oil change to try the Rotella T6 5w40 as there are good reports of people using it in these cars.

Rotella T6 is good stuff - lots of diesel people have high regards for it. I once went 15K miles on a change in my 2000 VW New Beetle TDI (diesel engine) once because I couldn't make time for the usual 10K mile OCI . This Beetle now has 360K miles and is still my daily driver - it has had the transmission swapped from 4 speed automatic to 5 speed manual (instant 8-10 MPG jump) and has had some tuning done on it - it makes about 170% of stock torque and horsepower - and can spin the drive wheels in 1st AND 2nd gears on DRY PAVEMENT . And it does this while getting 45 MPG tank after tank ( a bit less in the summer, especially with heavy A/C use).

 

[Savago]

@scooperhsd: damn! That is a sweet ride! :-D

[scooperhsd]

@scooperhsd: damn! That is a sweet ride! :-D

Yep - I'm PLANNING on getting 500,000 miles (at least) out of it (assuming good luck with the cell phone idiots between now and then). it LOOKS 100% stock - unless you know how and where to look - for example - from the turbo back - it has a 3 inch straight pipe, with a resonator at the end (just incase there was undesirable noise coming from it). Most stock TDI's of that vintage run out of umph at 4000 RPM or so  - I can pull ALL the way to 5000 (and smoke like a train doing so). Part of the tune was to reduce the smoke in my "daily driver" RPM  range (to keep official attention at a minimum). It's sort of the ultimate "sleeper". My mechanic says he's had it well over 100 MPH on a local interstate - I'm not quite that brave (and more prudent of my driver's license). It certainly has no problems pulling 80-90 that I've seen... There's other things I would like to do - get a higher final drive to lower the RPMs, some of the interior is showing the effects of 17 years, kind of things.

[cookiedough]

I would say in my opinion to do oil changes every 6 months or 5000 miles whichever occurs first and just skip the oil analysis, never done one in 30+ years.  I think Hyundai says 7500 miles at max but me using conventional oil NO way going over 5K miles ever.  Unless synthetic oil, I would not go over oil changes every 5K miles in any vehicle.

The veloster is a very small, yet sporty looking vehicle.  Not my cup of tea too hard to get in/out of and backset is useless.   WE have a 2014 hyundai sonata 2.4L and also get 38-49 mpg with 190hp plenty adequate and plenty of room for 4 full sized adults paid new 17.7K out the door in 2014.  Hyundai overall makes very good vehicles with great warranties and no bad things to really say about them, at least 2011 and newer.

As far as the shop refusing to gather old oil to do an analysis,  just do not go back there ever again I would not.  Plus, I do not trust overall in general any shop even certified mfg. shops to do a better oil change than I can.  I let the old oil warm up and drain out about 1 hour to get the most out of the oil pan, that last 3-5 ounces dripping out does not hurt one bit vs. the shop putting the drain plug back in leaving 5-12 ounces of old oil still in the oil pan. 

I even on the honda valkyrie after warming up the engine tip the bike over to the right holding it up and it allows 3-4 more ounces out of the crankcase which is good doing that 4-5 times until my right leg gets tired of holding the 800lb. beast up.

I do like those rhino ramps seem to be a good set to use. 

[gregk]

I would just buy a drain plug with a magnet and watch for metal particles if your that concerned.

[Robert]

I want to give kind of a different perspective on this, and before you think badly of someone not wanting to sample your oil think about these things. They may be to busy trying to make a living and dont have the time to instruct the tech and make accommodations since its another thing to do that is a distraction from making money doing work on someone elses car that they can actually make a profit from.

First do you bring your own food for a restaurant to cook?

Do you know what the labor rate is at some dealers, like 130. to 250 an hour.

Do you know that techs dont come cheap and for a no profit oil change that someone brings their own oil the shop could have a job that pays for that lift 130.00 to 250. dollars for that same time to do your change?

That the money these guys are charging it costs them money to do an oil change.

The fact that some will even do an oil change when you bring your own oil is amazing.

It costs money to dispose of oil these days and most shops that do cheap oil changes do so to get people in to hopefully find something to make it worth while to do the change.

To find techs these days is next to impossible so the law of supply and demand is in play. If you dont believe me start to ask dealers what they are having to do to find qualified techs and ask how much they have to pay. This also does not consider overhead and those costs are not going down any time soon.

Unfortunately attitudes have not kept up with the times about mechanics and shops. Most are no longer mom and pop or Joe just opens a shop. Most equipment to diagnose cars today is expensive. Like to the tune of 8 to 20k expensive and there is a monthly fee for updates or every few years you have to buy a new piece of diagnostic equipment.

I know shops that have over 100k in scanners and their tools are just about in the same price range. Not to mention the technical expertise it takes to repair cars put in one person and that person doing an oil change.

How much does it cost you to do your job say clothes or any other work related cost to do your job that you pay. Hell some educations dont cost this much and everything else is provided by an employer.

The dealers are fighting a war with the independents to cut them out also.

All this coupled with insurance, shop supplies, uniforms, equipment, rent, salary, accounting, electricity, assorted government fees and waste disposal fees make the old days of owning a low overhead shop impossible. 


So while I say these shops could have handled it better, you could have asked to use a certain oil and allowed them to make some money also.

As for the actual oil testing, its not a bad thing just limited in value. Say what happens if they find excess bearing material in the oil, are you going to run out and buy an engine or change the bearings, no I didn't think so. So if you change your oil regularly say 7 to 8k for synthetic and 4 to 5 for regular its about as good as you can do.

[Serk]

Get a turkey baster and pull the required amount of oil out in the shop's parking lot right before you pull it in to be serviced? Just a thought, not sure logistically how practical that would be...

[Savago]

@Robert: I don't think is a matter of finances here. If you just divide the rate of 250 bucks/hour and calculate how much would cost 15s (which is the time I spent to collect the oil) that would yield 1.04 dollars.

Heck, if they charged me 5 bucks extra for it I would be willing to pay. The whole issue is that I have the impression that *anything* that falls outside of what they do in a daily basis is a reason to freak out.

@Serk: that could actually have worked, it is a good idea.

Too bad that I will be doing my own oil changes from now on.
:-)

[Robert]

Savago you are probably not wrong, but your calculations are a bit off and I guess you never supervised a less than stellar employee to make sure things are done correctly. What would you estimate the aggravation be worth?

[cookiedough]

still amazes me though locally around me that even say GM certified dealers require their own mechanics to bring in and have their own tools to work on cars at the dealership.  That shocked me years ago when I heard of it and still going on today.  and yet dealer labor rate is 100+ bucks per hour - YIKES.

[gregk]

Drawing oil will not do crap you need what is in the bottom of the pan your looking for metal particles.

[Savago]

Drawing oil will not do crap you need what is in the bottom of the pan your looking for metal particles.

Makes sense.

[Robert]

If you have visible metal particles in your pan then you have bigger problems. Most particles will be suspended in the oil, so it doesn't matter drawing the oil with a baster. Heck when you drain the oil most will usually wait till the flow slows down a bit so you think those same particles will not flow out first?

[Skinhead]

If I were you, I wold ask for the old filter, (bring a zip lock bag), take it home and cut the can off, then look at what is in the filter paper.  No metal?  No Problem.

[czuch]

3K changer here. I jack em up and 6ton stands go under.
OR solid wooden blocks. I lube the front end and u-joints.
Always have, always will do my own.  (never say always)
I worked at a Wards auto center. I know what goes on.
I detest taking them to a shop where I have to splain points.
 They are techs. I am a mechanic.