SMOKIN JOE Check this out, Made it to the India m/c forum, DARKSIDE

[frosty]

Being a loyal Valk owner for years having several of them. I also now have a Indian Chieftain. Was wondering about going to the dark side as I have been for several years and with the Wings. Well Check this out. Joe made it to the Indian form as a example of the Darkside. I did post there too saying if anybody can put them to the test that Smoki'n Joe can as we have rode the Dragon several times together. Indian link below;

http://www.indianmotorcycles.net/threads/tires-riding-on-the-darkside.197857/page-2

[Bronxboy]

Many here have thousands of miles on Darkside Tires, proof is in the pudding. Nay sayers who never tried it will always say it's dangerous. The Braking is lot's better, riding in Rain is Much better, and tire life cant be beat.

[ridingron]

Many here have thousands of miles on Darkside Tires, proof is in the pudding. Nay sayers who never tried it will always say it's dangerous. The Braking is lot's better, riding in Rain is Much better, and tire life cant be beat.   

Yep. Lots of miles on Valks, Wings and the ST1300s. Lots of miles on the double dark 1300's too. If you're running lots of miles, it's the way to go.

[bill v e]

225k on 2000 interstate -wearing out my 7th car tire and have only had two motorcycle tires.  car tires are not a problem for experienced motorcyclists.
 

[..]

Wah, Wah, Wah.

Flaming death and so on and on and on and on and on.........................................

[hubcapsc]

I'm thinking of trying a tractor tire, but don't know if I'll
have to do the nut-cage mod... ?

-Mike

[DDT (12)]

I'm thinking of trying a tractor tire, but don't know if I'll
have to do the nut-cage mod... ?

-Mike

LOL!!! Be careful you don't end up in a nut cage!

DDT

[Oss]

if you can find a speed rated tractor tire PLEASE let us know Mike     IT would make your valk look like an adventure 990

Oss

Not going to take the damn E3 off the back of the interstate and replace with that taxi tire in the basement till it wears out even tho it sux on all of those tar snakes but even the cobra also stunk on them

[signart]

I'm thinking of trying a tractor tire, but don't know if I'll
have to do the nut-cage mod... ?

-Mike

FARM OUT, man!  I can disc it!

[Former BMW Guy]

You guys are more fun than a barrel of monkeys...

[The emperor has no clothes]

This thread is like Seinfeld episode. And to think it all began because of Hindus who love Motorcycle car tire forums. 

[Alberta Patriot]

I have occasionally skimmed over dark side posts here since I arrived at this forum and I have remained at a safe distance and avoided comment simply because all hell has broken loose on previous forums with some who are thouroughly committed to the use of C/T's . As I had stated in those forums and again here I believe that those contemplating the switch should have relevant, informed AND experienced info about C/T's from both sides of the opinion fence on this  subject.
Anyway...here goes:
A number of years back I mounted a highly recommended tire promoted by some members on the Delphi Stratoliner/Roadliner forum. The most repeated comment was "just as good... just different".  And the usual other comments like "breaking in the tire for about 500 miles with 40+ Lbs. pressure and then reducing the pressure to something you like...around 32-36 pounds...experiment until you are happy with how it feels.
So...Okay, why not.
So after mounting the 205-55/17 General Ultra High Performance Tire(Z-rated)...It replaced a 200-55/17 Dunlop BTW... I went for my first ride and right off I noticed that the tail end of the bike felt slightly squirrelly. After trying different pressures over the next several days I found that I could reduce that odd tail end feeling by dropping the pressure to around 30 Lbs. but cornering was unstable at that pressure...next 45 Lbs thinking that might be good, and it did help with the cornering but made the tail end greasy feeling worse.
After some considerable time I began to sort out why the bike was doing what it was doing...the flat wide profile was the culprit...here's why:
When riding on M/C tires the bike is roughy but very closely tracking a single line so center of balance is pretty much consistant...but with that somewhat wide flat profile car tire the centerline of the contact patch shifts from side to side depending on which side of car tire makes contact with the road, which...on flat pavement like Interstate Slabs...no problem. Trouble is once on patched...less than flat road surfaces, the trouble shows up.
I noticed it a lot on "Truck Lanes" with those 2 furrows that heavy haulers create over time. Riding in one of those furrows would make that greasy side to side feeling constant...the reason...when the left side of that tire made contact with the lane furrow the bike would shift right and vice versa with right side contact shifting the bike left...all bikes do this to some degree but it is quite exaggerated with the C/T.
Also...rolling up to intersections at walking speed with a really uneven surface...again caused by the heavy trucks...the bike would shift hard to one side or the other, so I always had to be prepared for that...again all bikes do this to some degree but certainly not to the extent that I experienced with the C/T.
Bottom Line...do what you like, but for me all the trade offs I had far outweighed the few benefits I got with the C/T.
I instantly knew I had my great handling Stratoliner back when I did the switch back.(Michelin Commander II 200-55/17)
Thanks...ride safe.

[Alberta Patriot]

Just one thing to add...I read comments here about Taxi Tires and those who use them like them a lot...being a narrow tire that may be the answer for those who want to dive into the Darkside thing without running into the experience I had.

[The emperor has no clothes]

They just ain't cut out for everybody. 

[Alberta Patriot]

They just ain't cut out for everybody.  

That's a great comment.
I did the C/T because proponents were blowing only sunshine on the idea.
I know different...NOW, but I had to go through it all at considerable time and expense because there was nobody (like me for example) that know it ain't all sunshine and there are some downsides that riders who are considering it might like to know ahead of time...and I am not saying everybody is having my experience but picking a tire and putting it on a bike will be different for everyone depending on the bike and which car tire you end up with...and also as a rider...how much difference from a  M/T you are willing to accept.
Bottom Line...it is all a bit of a crapshoot.

[Jess from VA]

It's all sunshine for a lot of us.

[The emperor has no clothes]

It's all sunshine for a lot of us.

+1 

[Alberta Patriot]

It's all sunshine for a lot of us.

Yep, I completely agree.
I just wanted to put my personal experience out there for those who might want another shade of light on the Darkside to make a more informed choice all around.

[Serk]

It's all sunshine for a lot of us.

Yep, I completely agree.
I just wanted to put my personal experience out there for those who might want another shade of light on the Darkside to make a more informed choice all around.

(Tongue in cheek)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiv3Pl0WJOw

[Bighead]

Y'all did notice the ONLY bike that was going down was on a MC tire didn't you?
Personally I don't run DARKSIDE but have ridden with many that do and have never seen any Ill effects.

[Alberta Patriot]

It's all sunshine for a lot of us.

Yep, I completely agree.
I just wanted to put my personal experience out there for those who might want another shade of light on the Darkside to make a more informed choice all around.

(Tongue in cheek)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiv3Pl0WJOw

Hmm...Maybe I should be staying in the shadows after discussing Global Warming in the company of Liberals and Darkside tires here on VRCC

[Alberta Patriot]

Y'all did notice the ONLY bike that was going down was on a MC tire didn't you?
Personally I don't run DARKSIDE but have ridden with many that do and have never seen any Ill effects.

Yeah...its not something you would notice following someone.

[Oss]

Has joe been on here lately?

Y'all ok Joe?  Workin the 7 days a week to sock money in the mason jars?

[Mr Whiskey]

Hmm...Maybe I should be staying in the shadows after discussing Global Warming in the company of Liberals and Darkside tires here on VRCC

Naw, you're all good Bro & you're absolutely right, CT on any kind of uneven can be a bear to handle on these big ol' bikes. Not to mention a 205/55 is pretty wide & flat. I'm 6'2" with a 205/55/16 on the 900+lb Wing ('zact same tire I ran on the Valky!) & it's a dog fight even for me in the truck runnels you're talkin' 'bout, or washed out gravel drives, & gettin' up on the sidewalks is damn near impossible (you'd hafta know me to realize I'm not kiddin' )
Only two reasons I still put up with it....................
1) the grip caint be beat!!
Yeah, I could go to a 195 or even a 175 taxi tire but I want all the contact patch I can get when we're crankin' & bankin' two up!
He77, I'm runnin' a CT that usually only last 'bout 8k so I'm sure not in it for the mileage
2) Add to that the increased load handling capacity. We pull 26cft cargo trailer two up with all the campin' gear & I wouldn't feel safe doin' that very far on any MT, seen too many delam from heat.
I'll put up with the slow speed stuff (which for me completely disappears above 'bout 10mph) for jus' these two major benefits listed above, the fact that my rear tire cost me roughly 65 bucks to my door doesn't hurt my feelin's none either
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/TireSearchResults.jsp?zip-code=&width=205/&ratio=55&diameter=16&rearWidth=255/&rearRatio=40&rearDiameter=17
If ya ever decide to take another walk on the DarkSide, try somethin' narrower with rounder edges

[Mr Whiskey]

Being a loyal Valk owner for years having several of them. I also now have a Indian Chieftain. Was wondering about going to the dark side as I have been for several years and with the Wings. Well Check this out. Joe made it to the Indian form as a example of the Darkside. I did post there too saying if anybody can put them to the test that Smoki'n Joe can as we have rode the Dragon several times together. Indian link below;

http://www.indianmotorcycles.net/threads/tires-riding-on-the-darkside.197857/page-2

Hey Bro, how ya been? Let us know what you decide to run on that Chieftain, got a Brother considerin' it on his.
TIA & safe winds!

[The emperor has no clothes]

My first 3 were 205/60's and 65's. My last 2 have been 195/60's. The slow speed stuff is negligible and I haven't noticed any less traction than the 205's.

[Mr Whiskey]

My first 3 were 205/60's and 65's. My last 2 have been 195/60's. The slow speed stuff is negligible and I haven't noticed any less traction than the 205's.

But would you bet your hide on it chasin' Joe 'round here with ice in the shadows?

[Cracker Jack]

Hmm...Maybe I should be staying in the shadows after discussing Global Warming in the company of Liberals and Darkside tires here on VRCC

Naw, you're all good Bro & you're absolutely right, CT on any kind of uneven can be a bear to handle on these big ol' bikes. Not to mention a 205/55 is pretty wide & flat. I'm 6'2" with a 205/55/16 on the 900+lb Wing ('zact same tire I ran on the Valky!) & it's a dog fight even for me in the truck runnels you're talkin' 'bout, or washed out gravel drives, & gettin' up on the sidewalks is damn near impossible (you'd hafta know me to realize I'm not kiddin' )
Only two reasons I still put up with it....................
1) the grip caint be beat!!
Yeah, I could go to a 195 or even a 175 taxi tire but I want all the contact patch I can get when we're crankin' & bankin' two up!
He77, I'm runnin' a CT that usually only last 'bout 8k so I'm sure not in it for the mileage
2) Add to that the increased load handling capacity. We pull 26cft cargo trailer two up with all the campin' gear & I wouldn't feel safe doin' that very far on any MT, seen too many delam from heat.
I'll put up with the slow speed stuff (which for me completely disappears above 'bout 10mph) for jus' these two major benefits listed above, the fact that my rear tire cost me roughly 65 bucks to my door doesn't hurt my feelin's none either
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/TireSearchResults.jsp?zip-code=&width=205/&ratio=55&diameter=16&rearWidth=255/&rearRatio=40&rearDiameter=17
If ya ever decide to take another walk on the DarkSide, try somethin' narrower with rounder edges

"I want all the contact patch I can get when we're crankin' and bankin' two up."

You do realize big contact patch is your friend on dry pavement, however, it is your enemy and degrades traction (friction) on wet pavement. Also, bigger contact patch is more prone to hydroplane. Ever seen the Nascar boys on even slightly wet pavement with them big ole "tars".

[Mr Whiskey]

You do realize big contact patch is your friend on dry pavement, however, it is your enemy and degrades traction (friction) on wet pavement. Also, bigger contact patch is more prone to hydroplane. Ever seen the Nascar boys on even slightly wet pavement with them big ole "tars".

That's cause Nascar doesn't run in the rain, they red flag, so their tires aren't designed for it.
Better analogy would be F1, they change from slicks to "rain" tires which have very agressive sipes for water dispersal. That's part of the reason I chose this tire...it has an excellent sipe pattern for evacuating H2O

[The emperor has no clothes]

My first 3 were 205/60's and 65's. My last 2 have been 195/60's. The slow speed stuff is negligible and I haven't noticed any less traction than the 205's.

But would you bet your hide on it chasin' Joe 'round here with ice in the shadows?

I'm not sure. I'm leary of ice on any tires. I usually slow way down in icing conditions. So...I guess not.

[hubcapsc]

My first 3 were 205/60's and 65's. My last 2 have been 195/60's. The slow speed stuff is negligible and I haven't noticed any less traction than the 205's.

But would you bet your hide on it chasin' Joe 'round here with ice in the shadows?

Three or four of them slid and fell on the ice around a turn a couple of years ago,
but not Joe... on the car tire...

-Mike

[Jess from VA]

Whew.  Man it had been nearly a year without a spirited Car Tire thread. 

We should not burn the heretics.  Whether the heretics are car tire haters or lovers.

A simple stoning will suffice.   


Give me a car tire, or give me a flaming death.  Patrick O'henry 

[Alberta Patriot]

Whew.  Man it had been nearly a year without a spirited Car Tire thread.  

We should not burn the heretics.  Whether the heretics are car tire haters or lovers.

A simple stoning will suffice.  


Give me a car tire, or give me a flaming death.  Patrick O'henry  

I stand a little taller today..apparently I am elevated to that often vilified protest class of people who deny Global Warming and even more...Martin Luther who demanded that the Bible be translated to common language for the masses.

[Jess from VA]

7th, you are not vilified at all.  I like you and all your posts.   

We may disagree on car tires; a small thing.

Carry on.

[Alberta Patriot]

7th, you are not vilified at all.  I like you and all your posts.  

We may disagree on car tires; a small thing.

Carry on.

Yeah, I know...and happy that most everybody sees a bit of humor in all the C/T vs M/T tire talk.
The heretic thing was funny...I consider the idea of being vilified a bit of a badge of honor these days.

[Willow]

7th, you are not vilified at all.  I like you and all your posts.   
...

Speak for yourself, Jess.  He's from Alberta and rides a Red and Black.  What more do you need?    

[Alberta Patriot]

7th, you are not vilified at all.  I like you and all your posts.  
...

Speak for yourself, Jess.  He's from Alberta and rides a Red and Black.  What more do you need?    

I was informed by Steve at the Vahalla in Post Falls that the Red over Black that I ride is kinda rare, apparently only 210 were painted that color scheme.
Not sure if that is significant in any way though...maybe even more rare because it has the Metric Speedo

[Smokinjoe-VRCCDS#0005]

My first 3 were 205/60's and 65's. My last 2 have been 195/60's. The slow speed stuff is negligible and I haven't noticed any less traction than the 205's.

But would you bet your hide on it chasin' Joe 'round here with ice in the shadows?

Three or four of them slid and fell on the ice around a turn a couple of years ago,
but not Joe... on the car tire...

-Mike

Not so sure the tire had anything to do with it . I was on the ice before I knew it and just let it roll on while looking in my mirror and seeing bikes go down behind me .

 

[Ken Tarver]

Well shoot, here is my comment on darkside.
I have a CT on 2 valks and a 1800 wing. I don't care if you do or don't. Have been on CT's for pretty long time now. Initially read a lot here on our forum and a little on some other sites. After about 2 years of the info bouncing around in my noggin, I decided I was going to stick with MT. Didn't ask anyone's opinion, was strictly my decision. Sometime I guess within the next year, on the way home from Greenville, SC Wing Ding, rear tire on the Wing delaminated internally. So on holiday weekend, was able to find a local guy to put a MT on the wing for remainder of trip home. But my new thinking now was "I'm trying a car tire on the next bike that needs a tire." If I don't like it, I'll go back to MT. (simple right? no need to get my shorts in a twist)
All 3 have car tires now.
I get asked occaisionally by riders to tell them about putting a CT on their bike....my first statement is, "I don't recommend it"; "read all the info you can, analyze the pro and con, then make your own decision."
I don't get all the angst over the subject, some folks don't like buttermilk, I can live with that.

Ken

[old2soon]

First D/S I went to I wuz comfortable with it in bout 3 to 7 miles. THEN I twisted her tail and absofrikkinlutely LOVED how WELL she hooked up. Currently on an A T T. NOT blowin solar up anyone's butt but I AM a convert. The slow speed stuff do NOT in any way shape or form-threats of flaming death I M H O ARE greatly exaggerated-hinder the return on longevity performance with two up or loaded down for one of my trips or pulling a heavily loaded trailer. AND AND AND I'd rather have ANY half worn C/T than ANY New elite 3! The ONLY time since I've been riding that I was way MORE than Concerned involved me the Phatt Ghurl some rain and some low mileage-less than 2G-dunflop e 3s. Read scared the livin kaka outa me. After that heart thumper you could NOT give me enough money or reason to EVER run a dunflop again.   RIDE SAFE.