"Experts" Say Trump Order Could Up end Health Care System

[Rams]

"Experts" Say Trump Order Could Upend Health Care System

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/experts-say-trump-order-could-upend-health-care-system/ar-AAtmb5G?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartanntp

With Republican efforts to repeal Obamacare stalled, President Donald Trump issued a new executive order on Thursday that could undermine the law without Congress.

Well, good!   Something needs to change.   The only thing this EO does is tell certain government agencies to consider some changes and report back.   My lord, let's get upset over nothing.  Yes, I read the entire article to include some "experts" I think are full of themselves.

My only caveat is, it ticks me off that Congress has their own health plan.   They should have precisely the same problems we all have.

[old2soon]

It are called self preservation. They appear to be above the herd they are sposed to serve!  we're from da gubmint-we want to help ourselves first and foremost. RIDE SAFE.

[The emperor has no clothes]

My only caveat is, it ticks me off that Congress has their own health plan.   They should have precisely the same problems we all have.[/i]

We might get some good, cheap, healthcare if that were to happen.

[Rams]

My only caveat is, it ticks me off that Congress has their own health plan.   They should have precisely the same problems we all have.[/i]

We might get some good, cheap, healthcare if that were to happen.

First, I don't think one can or should use the descriptive terms of Good and Cheap in the same sentence with Healthcare but,  I do think it might return our leadership to a realistic understanding of health care and health insurance in this nation.

[Patrick]

Just being able to buy from another state [ part of this] will help a whole lot.  Our same policy in PA is half of what it costs here in NY. [ Damn congress for allowing that] .  I heard Mr Trump left the table forgetting to sign anything yet though.

[bagelboy]

Before Obamacare, my premiums were $600/month with $5000/year out of pocket. Next years rate, which has climbed every year since Obamacare was introduced, will be $2200/month and $10,000 out of pocket. There are probably 20 or 30 YouTube videos of Obama saying that I could keep my doctor, and that my family's premiums would go down about $2000/year. You don't need much more evidence of a lie than that. Low income families received cheap healthcare, and middle income families are losing theirs. Something needs to be done! I barely make my payments each month!

[Gavin_Sons]

I hear ya, our premium went from 300 to 800 and out of pocket went from 2500 to 8000. And that is per person. We use to have family out of pocket at 5000. The elected officials need our insurance so they see how shitty it really is. I use to go to the doctor at least once a year just for a check up, anymore i have to feel like i'm dying before i'll go. I'm not paying their ridiculous prices. Last year a prompt med visit cost me just 10 dollar co pay. now it is 100. An ER visit is 300 co pay.  and my family doctor is 35. Luckily my employer pays 100% of my insurance premiums for myself but not the family. My wife has the kids on her plan. We need to eradicate this problem along with anyone who thinks it is helpful. They only ones that think it is great are the ones that are worthless and work the system for all it's worth. Get a f-ing job and quit making other people pay to keep you alive. 

[MarkT]

Currently on the wife's insurance UHDC (United Health Don't Care) I am now eligible for Medicare and apparently have been eligible all along for VA care.  Looking into transferring to those.  Hope I don't regret it.  BTW, turns out I was poisoned by Agent Orange at Takhli and U-Tapao in the bomb dumps, mostly at Takhli.  A couple of times there was a wet oily substance all over everything and shortly all over us; they said it was bug spray.  The VA has denied all AO claims from Thailand exposure but vets orgs have been fighting that for some time.  I have a bunch of medical issues all known to be caused by AO. Apparently if you can prove you were base security and walked the perimeters; that's the big exception.  Us weapons guys who were sprayed in the bomb dumps (on the perimeters) are SOL.

[old2soon]

Happy with the care I get from the V A. When this debacle of o care came down the pike I did NOT peruse the net for o care insurance. I did however receive a letter from the V A stating I was good to go with my coverage from V A and would Not be required to git anything additional from the gubmint. I've also looked up the drugs I'm taking as per my Doctor and with the $8.00 a month copay per RX I am saving money. Got my retail pricing from Walgreens and wally wurld for my price comparisons. V A also picking up the tab on my o2 requirements and my Cpap. Also picked up the tab on my sleep study. The really large surprise was when I did retire that the V A was Actually there for me. BUT all is NOT perfecto. I do get horror stories from the Sandbox Vets Wives on how cursed difficult it is to get needed meds and Doctor care at times. Thinkin the reason the gubmint draggin their knuckles far as agent orange and the other chemicals involved in Nam IS the chemical companies themselves. Doncha just Know a big sigh of relief WILL be heard from the chem companies when the last Nam vet dies. RIDE SAFE.

[f6john]

Mark, they are waiting for all you guys to die and then they will offer full benefits retroactive to the end of the conflict with their sincere thanks and appreciation for your service. Of course it is much more important that women receive free birth control than provide for those who put their lives on the line. Hats off to all the Vietnam vets for your service and the crap you had to endure on your return.

[G-Man]

Of course it is much more important that women receive free birth control than provide for those who put their lives on the line.

Oral contraception, though it has a matter of fact name, is prescribed to women for many medical reasons and not just for birth control.  They help with hormonal imbalance and menstruation irregularities including pain, among other things.

Not directed specifically at you, John,........  Why does everything have to be an either/or, one way or the other, etc?  Why can't it be both.  Why can't we help vets and women who have medical needs?  Why can't Trump take 30 seconds to tweet about X and care about Y?  And both sides do it ubiquitously. 

[G-Man]

BTW, the NY Times says the executive order changes nothing within the ACA regarding who and/or what is covered.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/12/upshot/what-did-trumps-health-care-executive-order-do.html

[bassman]

Mark...it's my understanding, and I'm NO EXPERT on the subject, that the VA has approved benefits for anyone who was "in-country" during the Vietnam War regardless of the amount of time served.  If you "passed-through" on your way to somewhere else you should/could qualify.  They use to approve about a half dozen related issues but have recently increased that to more than a dozen.  I have a couple of friends who served and have recently been approved for benefits related to time served. 

Need to find a good advocate at your local VA to double check for you.

https://www.benefits.va.gov/compensation/claims-postservice-agent_orange.asp

Good luck and thank-you for your service

[..]

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Executive+Order

[Rams]

Of course it is much more important that women receive free birth control than provide for those who put their lives on the line.

Oral contraception, though it has a matter of fact name, is prescribed to women for many medical reasons and not just for birth control.  They help with hormonal imbalance and menstruation irregularities including pain, among other things.

Not directed specifically at you, John,........  Why does everything have to be an either/or, one way or the other, etc?  Why can't it be both.  Why can't we help vets and women who have medical needs?  Why can't Trump take 30 seconds to tweet about X and care about Y?  And both sides do it ubiquitously.  

Not speaking for John but, I'm curious.   It's pretty much universally accepted that the American people owe those that served America, the VA benefits promised to those Veterans.    I have to pay for my own heath insurance and don't believe it's my responsibility to pay anyone else's.   I give to certain charities but that's done by my choice.

I have yet to see where anyone else is promised birth control assistance.    While that could be construed as a religious issue, it's also a money issue.   I helped bring two kids into this world, they were my and their mother's responsibility.    Maybe those having sex and giving birth should take ownership of their actions and health issues.   I didn't help conceive those kids, I don't believe I should be paying for them now or their future needs.   Socialism has failed every time it's ever been tried and yet, some want to try again.  

[The emperor has no clothes]

For 8 years Executive Orders were the death of freedom in America. Now they are Making America Great Again.

[Alpha Dog]

Being able to buy across state lines by forming Associations is and should have been the right thing to do all along.  This was based on an existing 1974 law.  Why was this not done before.  Well guess who greases the ruling class of both parties, and Trump is not beholding to any of them.  I knew this was going to happen about a month ago.  If implemented correctly insurances will be competing to get your insurance and to tailor a plan to meet the individual needs.  Currently there are still 28 million uninsured in this country and hope is to get a good portion of these on board also. Also what will happen is the private coops that  can bring about plans like Allied Medical has done in Wichita, KS and a few hundred other places.  These folks get all basic medical care for a family of 4 four 120 dollars/month.  Prescription meds are up to 95 percent less due to bulk buying directly from pharmaceuticals and by all accounts the care is great and you can pick your doctor.  It may take a year or longer for all these plans to come together, but it is a much better way to go.  I am sure the Pravda and Republican elites will have a different opinion, but they are the ones that have screwed it up.  

[..]

For 8 years Executive Orders were the death of freedom in America. Now they are Making America Great Again.

Finally you see the light 

[baldo]

For 8 years Executive Orders were the death of freedom in America. Now they are Making America Great Again.

Yep...

And just wait until those with pre-existing conditions find they can no longer get, never mind afford, insurance coverage. That would be...awkward.

[ridingron]

  My only caveat is, it ticks me off that Congress has their own health plan.   They should have precisely the same problems we all have 

This will only work when there is 1 plan level and everyone pays the same for the same coverage, same doctors list.

[Reb]

For 8 years Executive Orders were the death of freedom in America. Now they are Making America Great Again.

Yep...

And just wait until those with pre-existing conditions find they can no longer get, never mind afford, insurance coverage. That would be...awkward.

Pre-existing condition memo...

I'm a heartless bastard when it comes to this. But isn't getting health insurance when you have a pre-existing condition relative to purchasing fire insurance after your house burns down?


After all, it is considered an "insurance" is it not?

[The emperor has no clothes]

For 8 years Executive Orders were the death of freedom in America. Now they are Making America Great Again.

Yep...

And just wait until those with pre-existing conditions find they can no longer get, never mind afford, insurance coverage. That would be...awkward.

Pre-existing condition memo...

I'm a heartless bastard when it comes to this. But isn't getting health insurance when you have a pre-existing condition relative to purchasing fire insurance after your house burns down?


After all, it is considered an "insurance" is it not?

What it does is makes people a slave to their current job. If you work at company A and have health insurance then get cancer or some other costly disease you are screwed. If you try to strike out on your own the pre existing clause effectively prevents you. Not to mention the lifetime limits that were placed on you.

[Reb]

For 8 years Executive Orders were the death of freedom in America. Now they are Making America Great Again.

Yep...

And just wait until those with pre-existing conditions find they can no longer get, never mind afford, insurance coverage. That would be...awkward.

Pre-existing condition memo...

I'm a heartless bastard when it comes to this. But isn't getting health insurance when you have a pre-existing condition relative to purchasing fire insurance after your house burns down?


After all, it is considered an "insurance" is it not?

What it does is makes people a slave to their current job. If you work at company A and have health insurance then get cancer or some other costly disease you are screwed. If you try to strike out on your own the pre existing clause effectively prevents you. Not to mention the lifetime limits that were placed on you.

Perhaps that's why HSA's are becoming so popular?

[The emperor has no clothes]

For 8 years Executive Orders were the death of freedom in America. Now they are Making America Great Again.

Yep...

And just wait until those with pre-existing conditions find they can no longer get, never mind afford, insurance coverage. That would be...awkward.

Pre-existing condition memo...

I'm a heartless bastard when it comes to this. But isn't getting health insurance when you have a pre-existing condition relative to purchasing fire insurance after your house burns down?


After all, it is considered an "insurance" is it not?

What it does is makes people a slave to their current job. If you work at company A and have health insurance then get cancer or some other costly disease you are screwed. If you try to strike out on your own the pre existing clause effectively prevents you. Not to mention the lifetime limits that were placed on you.

Perhaps that's why HSA's are becoming so popular?

Maybe, but when you are faced with a 1 million dollar hospital bill I doubt any HSA is going to do you much good.

[ridingron]

And just wait until those with pre-existing conditions find they can no longer get, never mind afford, insurance coverage. 

I always thought that the point of group medical insurance was to balance the cost of sick people with the lack of cost of healthy people. The group had young people that never used the plan. It seems that now the group is just a bunch of individuals to buy policies.

[MP]

For 8 years Executive Orders were the death of freedom in America. Now they are Making America Great Again.

Yep...

And just wait until those with pre-existing conditions find they can no longer get, never mind afford, insurance coverage. That would be...awkward.

Pre-existing condition memo...

I'm a heartless bastard when it comes to this. But isn't getting health insurance when you have a pre-existing condition relative to purchasing fire insurance after your house burns down?


After all, it is considered an "insurance" is it not?

What it does is makes people a slave to their current job. If you work at company A and have health insurance then get cancer or some other costly disease you are screwed. If you try to strike out on your own the pre existing clause effectively prevents you. Not to mention the lifetime limits that were placed on you.

Perhaps that's why HSA's are becoming so popular?

Maybe, but when you are faced with a 1 million dollar hospital bill I doubt any HSA is going to do you much good.

I had a HSA. Obama cancelled it.
They have a major medical policy behind it, that takes care of the BIG expenses. It was a good policy. Of course, Obama lied. I did NOT get to keep it.

[cookiedough]

all I know is it cannot and better not get much worse for me/family (and probably most of us on here) for much more and insurance is hardly worth the expense shelled out per month.  Having to pay these bi-weekly high premiums on top of say 1500 per person deductible first before anything kicks in is insane since besides surgeries, etc.,  nothing is really covered much at all.    Plus, we never use it all these decades of paying in I think my wife had one surgery decades ago as well as me one minor surgery 9 years ago is all.  For what we have paid in all these some 28 years not used much at all, we could have easily put both our kids thru college with mega money to spare.

My wife's plan decades ago were HMO's and pretty much everything was covered for one low price which was great, those days are long, long gone.   

[RainMaker]

Lots of comments here about pre-existing conditions.  Back before ACA, group policies from company to company did not exclude pre-existing conditions when you went from one group (company) to another as long as you had insurance in the 6 months prior to employment.

Yes, my insurance was less expensive in the pre-ACA days as I was always in a group plan.  However, I did check out the rate in the "high risk" insurance pool and even thought it seemed expensive at the time, it would have been less expensive than what I pay today in my little company's group plan.

When government gets involved, prices go up.  Money is thrown at problems and burdensome regulations cause redundancies, inefficiencies and added costs.  It's easy to spend money if it isn't yours and that is government. 

If it's totally private, the efficiency is better but there is a drive to produce a profit that may cause heartless cost cutting to achieve the bottom line. 

I wish I knew the answer - all I see are the problems.

[Robert]

I would say preexisting should have some kind of safety net especially if you had insurance got sick and then lost insurance.

Canceling insurance if you leave work and that company gives you insurance should not be allowed.
Be able to buy insurance off any insurance company in the US
Give discounts on medical bills like you give to groups for those privately insured
Allow groups to be made out of any group including if you join someones work group
Dont allow DR to bill for walking in the room
One procedure one bill and reoccurring procedures need to verified and discussed if payment is to be made since its a redo.
More push for homeopathic remedies and more diagnostic dr to be able to diagnose the patient rather than just order tests.
Verification and checking cost of medical supplies.

These few rules would go a long way to help

[baldo]

Lots of comments here about pre-existing conditions.  Back before ACA, group policies from company to company did not exclude pre-existing conditions when you went from one group (company) to another as long as you had insurance in the 6 months prior to employment.

Yes, my insurance was less expensive in the pre-ACA days as I was always in a group plan.  However, I did check out the rate in the "high risk" insurance pool and even thought it seemed expensive at the time, it would have been less expensive than what I pay today in my little company's group plan.

When government gets involved, prices go up.  Money is thrown at problems and burdensome regulations cause redundancies, inefficiencies and added costs.  It's easy to spend money if it isn't yours and that is government. 

If it's totally private, the efficiency is better but there is a drive to produce a profit that may cause heartless cost cutting to achieve the bottom line. 

I wish I knew the answer - all I see are the problems.

Good points. I've asked this before...

A show of hands that are on Medicare. Do you like/hate it? Does it work for you? What would make it better?

Now imagine where everyone that carries health insurance was covered in the same way, the much-talked about single payer.

As far as how it would be paid for, how much of the $$$ that we all pay for insurance now would be used?

[G-Man]

When government gets involved, prices go up.  Money is thrown at problems and burdensome regulations cause redundancies, inefficiencies and added costs.  It's easy to spend money if it isn't yours and that is government. 

Yep, look at education.  Gov't guaranteed student loans and grants given to anyone with a heartbeat.  The student loan "problem" we have now is a direct result of making taxpayer money available to schools. 

[G-Man]

Lots of comments here about pre-existing conditions.  Back before ACA, group policies from company to company did not exclude pre-existing conditions when you went from one group (company) to another as long as you had insurance in the 6 months prior to employment.

Yes, my insurance was less expensive in the pre-ACA days as I was always in a group plan.  However, I did check out the rate in the "high risk" insurance pool and even thought it seemed expensive at the time, it would have been less expensive than what I pay today in my little company's group plan.

When government gets involved, prices go up.  Money is thrown at problems and burdensome regulations cause redundancies, inefficiencies and added costs.  It's easy to spend money if it isn't yours and that is government. 

If it's totally private, the efficiency is better but there is a drive to produce a profit that may cause heartless cost cutting to achieve the bottom line. 

I wish I knew the answer - all I see are the problems.

Good points. I've asked this before...

A show of hands that are on Medicare. Do you like/hate it? Does it work for you? What would make it better?

Now imagine where everyone that carries health insurance was covered in the same way, the much-talked about single payer.

As far as how it would be paid for, how much of the $$$ that we all pay for insurance now would be used?

Medicare is single payer only if you don't carry supplemental insurance, which almost all seniors do.  So even they they've paid into the system all their working lives, they still have to pay out of pocket for additional coverage. 

[baldo]

Lots of comments here about pre-existing conditions.  Back before ACA, group policies from company to company did not exclude pre-existing conditions when you went from one group (company) to another as long as you had insurance in the 6 months prior to employment.

Yes, my insurance was less expensive in the pre-ACA days as I was always in a group plan.  However, I did check out the rate in the "high risk" insurance pool and even thought it seemed expensive at the time, it would have been less expensive than what I pay today in my little company's group plan.

When government gets involved, prices go up.  Money is thrown at problems and burdensome regulations cause redundancies, inefficiencies and added costs.  It's easy to spend money if it isn't yours and that is government. 

If it's totally private, the efficiency is better but there is a drive to produce a profit that may cause heartless cost cutting to achieve the bottom line. 

I wish I knew the answer - all I see are the problems.

Good points. I've asked this before...

A show of hands that are on Medicare. Do you like/hate it? Does it work for you? What would make it better?

Now imagine where everyone that carries health insurance was covered in the same way, the much-talked about single payer.

As far as how it would be paid for, how much of the $$$ that we all pay for insurance now would be used?

Medicare is single payer only if you don't carry supplemental insurance, which almost all seniors do.  So even they they've paid into the system all their working lives, they still have to pay out of pocket for additional coverage. 

I realize that, but I think it would be an excellent place to start. This health care debacle is not going to be fixed overnight.

[3fan4life]

Lots of comments here about pre-existing conditions.  Back before ACA, group policies from company to company did not exclude pre-existing conditions when you went from one group (company) to another as long as you had insurance in the 6 months prior to employment.

Yes, my insurance was less expensive in the pre-ACA days as I was always in a group plan.  However, I did check out the rate in the "high risk" insurance pool and even thought it seemed expensive at the time, it would have been less expensive than what I pay today in my little company's group plan.

When government gets involved, prices go up.  Money is thrown at problems and burdensome regulations cause redundancies, inefficiencies and added costs.  It's easy to spend money if it isn't yours and that is government.  

If it's totally private, the efficiency is better but there is a drive to produce a profit that may cause heartless cost cutting to achieve the bottom line.  

I wish I knew the answer - all I see are the problems.

Good points. I've asked this before...

A show of hands that are on Medicare. Do you like/hate it? Does it work for you? What would make it better?

Now imagine where everyone that carries health insurance was covered in the same way, the much-talked about single payer.

As far as how it would be paid for, how much of the $$$ that we all pay for insurance now would be used?

Medicare is single payer only if you don't carry supplemental insurance, which almost all seniors do.  So even they they've paid into the system all their working lives, they still have to pay out of pocket for additional coverage.  

I realize that, but I think it would be an excellent place to start. This health care debacle is not going to be fixed overnight.

EXACTLY!

That was and is my biggest problem with the ACA.

The problem is too complex for a single bill (even one that is >3000 pages) to fix.

There should have been an effort to address the core issues separately.

Which is one of the things that I thought Trump was trying to do.

I remember him saying about one of the bills that it was only the first step.

I can't understand for the life of me why no one in Congress seems to have the balls to address the issue.

The ACA isn't working and it will NEVER work.


This problem needs to be fixed but it didn't get broken overnight and it can't be fixed overnight.


I don't believe that a single payer (government) system is the answer either.

The cost to the taxpayers (Us) will be crippling.



And for anyone that thinks that Government run healthcare is the answer just look at the VA system:

I have been jumping through "Hoops" for a little over a year now to get my neck pain relieved.

If I were willing to spend the rest of my life on opioid pain killers that would have been all that they would have done for me.

I've had to keep telling them that I don't want to just cover up the pain, I want it fixed.

It took almost 6 months to get them to do an MRI.

The MRI showed that I don't need surgery but could benefit from an ESI injection.

I saw the Dr that can authorize the ESI on Oct 4th.

He did and told me that they would call me with my appointment date.

This week they called me with my appointment, it is set for Feb 5, 2018.


If I had the money to take care of it in the private healthcare system I could have it done next week.

Most likely if I were dealing with the private healthcare system it would've been done 6-8 months ago.  


I'm not totally knocking the VA system it has its good points.

For the most part I have been happy with the care that I've recieved.

For general day to day minor problems it works.

But when the problems get more complicated it doesn't work as well.

[hubcapsc]

The ACA sucks because it was 100% democrat. A change that is 100%
republican (if it was possible to herd republicans like that) would be
as bad I guess... being able to get a mastectomy if you have cancer
shouldn't be a partisan issue, somehow you should be able to get
one and also you shouldn't necessarily have to end up bankrupt
and homeless because of it.

There's a doofus commentator that gives editorials at the end
of my local news broadcast. He's for children not being hungry
and old people being safe. I guess my post makes me kind of
like him  ...

The kind of health care I have with the state is pretty good I think.
We get what we need, sometimes have to pay a big chunk of it,
and some of it (my root canal and Carolyn's bone graft)
was straight cash... but we're not on the street... it seems like
that's what insurance is should be all about... not "free stuff" and not
"tough luck sucker", but "empowerment to take care of
bidness when the need arises" ...

-Mike "no solutions here..."